Ready For It? It’s Hot In Here!

Sarah Milken  00:00

And then at the end of the appointment she showed me all these products that I get on Amazon. And that was for me just that aha moment of thinking while these products are really outdated you know the Badgers sells the Astra glides and so on. And I thought, oh my gosh, women like me deserve better than this. Hey, peeps, welcome to the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Milken. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like last fucking year. I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day, I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD wipe the menopause, sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shovel and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just love coffee and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this. Hi, peeps. Welcome back to the next episode of The flexible neurotic Podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic. Today we've got such a cool conversation I had with some rad women. And yes, that's plural because we've got to kick ass female hottie midlife founders talking to me today. I'm so excited to have these women on. We've been trying forever to get together and chat because they've got some hot insights on a topic we're all dealing with, but none of us are really prepared for menopause. Are you ready for it? Did you know Over 1 million women enter menopause and over 50 million women in the US are experiencing menopause every year? Of course you didn't. It's a huge fucking taboo topic. But thank God that's starting to change. With an innovative line of products and a focus on female wellness the founders of women s made it their mission to empower women to take control of their health and well being during this weird and sometimes cluster fucky feeling transitional period of our lives with some fabulosity sprinkled in please join me in welcoming my guests who are going to teach us a thing or two today. Sally Mueller and Michelle Jacobs. Hi you guys.

Sally Muller  02:25

Thank you what a nose is fro

Sarah Milken  02:27

thank you I'm so excited. Well, I met you guys in person which was fabulous. Even though I was having some kind of like menopausal midlife I dripping bizarre thing going on while I was talking to you, but we'll pretend that didn't happen. And we'll just hope the photos are from afar. But I'm glad to have you guys here today. I'm going to do a little intro of each of you guys. So let's start with Sally. Sally has been a rock star in the marketing and brand management world for over two decades, and has launched some of the most iconic brands for some seriously big companies Hello target Alta, and now GNC. She's an expert in launching successful product lines leveraging digital marketing and fostering a culture of creativity and innovation and all of her projects. Beyond her career, Sally works actively in her community to support women's empowerment through education and philanthropy. Michelle is a financial whiz and has an incredible career in finance and investment. People who are good with numbers always blow my mind. And Michelle is no exception. I didn't even take calculus with a successful career in financial analysis, risk management and strategic direction. Michelle's long standing ability to navigate complex financial situations had earned her mad respect in the industry, you might want to review some of my credit card bills with my husband. Together they become a double threat and the co founders have an amazing brand of Women's Health and Aging products that is growing day by day. Sally and Michelle, welcome to the podcast.

Michelle Jacobs  04:07

Thank you Sarah. That was

Sarah Milken  04:09

such a nice intro. I'm out don't you just listen, you're I know about yourself.

04:16

So weird. I

Sarah Milken  04:16

know. I want to thank you guys. I know we started talking before I started recording. I want to thank you guys for being one of the sponsors of my amazing first live event. The midlife baby shower experience that happened on Saturday.

04:30

Great to hear how it how it was,

Sarah Milken  04:34

oh my God, it was amazing. And I didn't know any of the women and most of the women flew here. Like I just I had never expected that and everyone was a hell yes everyone. We had dinner Friday night together then we spent all day I mean they kept calling it camp Sarah. Hand is six in the most like beautifully cute aerated yet at the same time, such organic day, because all the details were planned, but all of like the magic between the women and the conversation and the energy exchange. I mean, you can never really plan that. But everyone just felt so filled up and inspired. And so many women had breakthroughs. And I want to try this. And I want to do that. And I've been feeling this way. But now I feel like I can go home and start feeling this other way. So it was just a beautiful, beautiful first live experience. I think I need to recover for maybe a week or two. Before I address all the messages from the women who are like, What are you doing it again, I'm like, Oh my God. Give me a minute. Give me a minute. But I'm just I'm so overwhelmed is your

Michelle Jacobs  05:52

biggest takeaway from it?

Sarah Milken  05:54

I think my biggest takeaway is that you can put a bunch of, I don't want to say random but a bunch of strangers female strangers who share the common denominator of midlife, and being in this stage, whether you were 48, there was one woman celebrating she flew from the UK has her 58th birthday present to herself. That's great. Thank God, I lived up to the expectations. I was like, wow, that's a tall order. But I think that you can put 13 Perfect Strangers together and create kind of a tribal energy. If the right people are there with the right kind of activities and activations. I mean we did sound bath Reiki semi precious stone beating based on the colors of our chakras. You did like signature customized fragrances that were all like the topics of the podcast, you know, it's like inner bitch external peanut gallery, getting yourself out of the midlife waiting room. Anyway, I could do a whole episode on that. But it was so beautiful and all the women got your amazing goodies. They can go back to their hotels, bold vibes vibrator. And I'm like, what, how do vibrators work with TSA? Do they even say anything?

07:22

You should be able to make it through.

Sarah Milken  07:24

Yeah, they're TSA friendly. Right, Michelle? Yeah, they are

Michelle Jacobs  07:27

TSA friendly.

Sarah Milken  07:29

Can you imagine being caught with that? And just being like, Oh, my God, what's happening here? Yeah. So funny. No, all the women love that and Coco bliss that we're going to talk about and the everyday wipes. I mean, who doesn't need a wipe? Right? Absolutely. The posts. Yeah, the post sex wipe or the midlife vaginas wet wipe. So I really want to thank you guys for that. That was super generous and amazing of you. And what a great collaboration. There's so much stigma around women's health, especially in menopause and perimenopause. It's been like stigma, shame, the frumpy Lumbees as I call them, and no one's talking about this elephant in the room. My mom sure didn't. I mean, she didn't even talk about sacks. Like it was just those were not topics that went on in my house. The intention of this episode is to really focus on how women acids, changing the narrative and making sure that women are having these conversations, not just with their friends and in their homes, but with their doctors, and anyone they can to sort of normalize this topic. And we'll talk about even spouses husbands, because there's a lot of issue around that, because some men who are the spouses just think that we're fucking crazy. And there's a lot of real information out there. And I love that you guys have said that menopause is a lifestyle change in some ways, but it's not a lifestyle Ender. It's not a death sentence. And I think a lot of women really struggle for a long time while they're looking for solutions. And they think, is this it for me? Like, is this going to be my new normal? Like, how do I wake up every day feeling shitty and foggy and sweaty? And you guys are here saying like, you don't have to feel that way. So if you're ready for it, it's hot in here. And we're gonna get, we're gonna get started. As I say, in midlife, there's a very long runway, but it's a good kind of runway if we're equipped for it. And I think that's what you guys are saying that we all have to be ready for it. And I think historically, it's sort of like, you know, that book acts, What to Expect When You're Expecting. Yeah, it's sort of like that. Yeah, it's sort of like that for menopause. And I feel like that that's what you guys are doing. Tell me about that.

09:54

That's a really good analogy, because when you're pregnant, there's a book, what to expect When You're Expecting and when you're in perimenopause and menopause, there is no book. And on top of it, doctors, you know, many doctors are not educated in medical school around menopause. So that mode where you would most likely learn about what's happening next in your body, you know, doesn't come up, you would think that, you know, as you're in your 40s, that your gynecologist your OB would start to talk about it. Even your primary care doctor might even mention something, but nobody does. So when actually you start to have your symptoms, women feel hopeless, because they feel like they have nowhere to go. And that is definitely you know, one of the main reasons why Sally and I decided to decided to start woman as because we want it to be a place where she can go and find good information, relevant information, accurate information, and get the things that she needs to make the decisions for her health ongoing. But I do think it's fascinating. And Sally and I, you know, over the last two years have experienced this over and over again, where women are like, I have no idea my perimenopause and menopause like women really don't know where they are. And it's, it's really shocking at this point, we should want to know, and it's kind of interesting that doctors really have not been able to catch up with what what women are asking for.

Sarah Milken  11:18

And Sally, do you agree with that? I think just to add to that, I think you're right. Our moms did not teach us about menopause. They taught us maybe a little bit about fertility, a little bit about puberty, but then my mom's like, do you need tampons? And I'm like, okay, but that was really it. Yeah, they didn't really embrace that responsibility. I think, you know, we always say because menopause sometimes equals, I'm old. You know, I'm not fertile anymore. And that is just been stigmatized for so many, you know, frankly, centuries. But I think now women realize that these women all of us are in like the top of our career we are we have so many great assets and talents that we're bringing to society, right? We have all this wisdom. And we've I mean, it's really a renaissance that women are going through, which is why we felt loneliness was really about celebrating this this transition in life because there's so much that we're that we're doing and we're all this super kick ass. So I love that because even with my midlife baby shower experience, it all started because I posted a post on Instagram that said, let's have a midlife baby shower, not celebrate our kids, but celebrate taking care of ourselves in this next stage of life and 5000 people like that post, and I normally don't have 5000 people liking my posts. I mean, I've had a podcast for two and a half years, and 500 people commented and I was like, Oh, maybe I should actually have a midlife baby shower. And my husband was like, What the fuck are you talking about? You know. So it really goes to show you that this really is a time that can be embraced. If we position it in the right way with the right expertise, and, you know, a little reverence, some humor, some self deprecating humor, because it is part of it. You know, you kind of have to laugh sometimes when you're like, oh my god, I'm so stoked. What's Yeah, sitting here?

13:19

Well, that piece is so important. Because when you when you feel connected to other women who are going through what you're going through, the more women talk about it when you a few decades ago, when before people would even mention it, you were really alone. And now, you know, millennials are much more open about their bodies, their sexuality, their health. You know, it is definitely this generation that's changing the conversation. And one of the biggest pieces of that is community and talking to other women and laughing about it or getting advice about it or saying well, what are you doing about it? What brands are you looking at? What websites are you going to? And that is such a big difference from what we all had before. But 100% humor, community friendship, it all is so important. Yeah, they have each other right now,

Sarah Milken  14:06

the bottom line, I feel like a lot of it is like relatability Yeah, it's like we can all read things in PubMed. But those aren't real every day. You know, that's not real, everyday language where you're like, oh, I can connect with that. But when you see, like a funny meme, or you listen to a podcast like this, where you're like, oh, let's talk about our midlife vaginas. Like, let's talk about how my vagina is burning off or whatever people are like, Oh my God, she's like saying all these like, awkward things that like, are on my mind, but I would never say to my doctor, yeah, yeah, well, women do. I mean, that's definitely annoying at times to go through these symptoms and all those are crazy, right? But women do want to laugh a little bit. And like you said, just be self deprecating. And so we found humor. I know you bring humor to your community and your podcast and we've added, you know, just what we call smart humor because, yeah, you know, the stereotypical like, I'm holding out the refrigerator and standing in front of it. Better than that. It's really like savvy humor that it's like a fan under your dress. I mean, I'm going to take drop my son off in Philadelphia for college and August, and all I can think about is like, fans, you know what I mean? Like, blowing through crotch swamp? Like, how am I going to get through this with like, a bad blow dry and sweating inner thighs? Right? Absolutely. But we definitely have to laugh. Now. I know. You guys have like crazy long career histories and stories. And those could be like six episodes each. But can you guys each give me the kind of like two minute rundown of what introduction to menopause was like, and I think I've read about Sally and how that sort of led her into wanting to get into woman ass. Yeah. Well, I, I knew that I was in menopause because I didn't have my period. So I knew enough that, you know, I was in the technical for you counted 12 months, I did. And I even remember getting my period, like six months into it. And during that I had to go back to start over Reezy. So what I was experiencing now were all these other symptoms, like sleepless nights and low libido. You know, my husband loved that one in particular. So decided to actually go to a doctor that I thought would be really knowledgeable about menopause. So I found one at the Mayo Clinic. And she was awesome. And it's, you know, it is rare to find a female doctor that's really educated in menopause. And I know that's so shocking, but it's, it's true. It's everything Michelle said, they're just not, you know, trained, they're not motivated to necessarily specialize in menopause or even be trained in it. So she was, and the kicker for me was she said, Oh, my gosh, I see patients all day long with these issues. And I thought maybe something is wrong here physically, you know, painful sex. Is there something really wrong here? And she's like, No, it's all has to do with menopause. And then at the end of the appointment, she showed me all these products that I get on Amazon. And that was for me, just that aha moment of thinking, while these products are really outdated, you know, the Badgers sells the Astra glides and so on. And I thought, oh my gosh, women like me deserve better than this. I mean, where's the modern take on menopause? Where's the clean formulations? Where's beautiful packaging that we're not embarrassed to put on our shelf, you know, all the things that millennial brands were bringing to, to that audience that was not happening for us. And so that was really my personal story. I'll let Michelle tell hers. But it's just been fascinating. Because menopause, for me just keeps evolving. You know, just because you go through, it doesn't mean your body doesn't keep changing too. So it's so important to, like you said, Take time to really invest in your own care and know what's next. Yeah, and the thing I think is really important about this, and we're going to talk about it again later is self responsibility, right? Because I think we're all sort of hoping that the like, you know, menopause fairy is gonna come down and be like, Sarah, Sally, Michelle, these are the 17 things you should do and your whole life will be solved. But it doesn't work like that. Like some people want to be on birth control pills. Some people don't want to take HRT, some people, you know, it's like, everyone has to find what works for them. But it's a lot of work. And it's a lot of work while you're feeling shitty. Right? And working. Yeah. And working and raising kids and dealing with teenagers and having like that brain fog, fog, and that like clunky feeling of like, oh my god, I just can't get out of bed one more day. And then people are like, do the work. Find your solution, self advocate. And I feel like that was one of the reasons that I started this podcast is I thought, hey, I'm in this zone. Now. I have no idea what my next midlife journey is going to look like. And I'm going to start this podcast and interview experts and bring all these women along with me. And we're going to discover all these golden nuggets together. And I feel like that's really what I've done for the last two and a half years because there is no magic wand. Yeah. And I never there is I want it. Yeah. And everyone's experience is so personal. So personal. And Michelle, what about you? How'd you get into menopause?

19:58

Yeah, I mean, mine was due Different minutes evolved over the last two years because when? Well, Sally was kind of coming at it from more of a medical and physical standpoint, I was more, I was coming off of a job, I was leaving one job and deciding what I wanted to do next. And a lot of my friends were in their early 50s, late 40s. And it was exactly what you were talking about, sort of like, in this flux, like not maybe not feeling great not wanting to take on a big job or leaving a job or starting something themselves or kind of like, I can't do this anymore. And like I was hearing all of this weird energy from like all of my network, and what it kind of boiled down to and Sally kind of came to me and we came together to talk about woman s was this like lack of inspiration and sort of a lack of clarity for this group of women like there is no marketing for her people are not selling her product, there's no advertising for her. And there's a little bit of a feeling of being unappreciated and lost and invisible. Yeah, and visible. So when Sally you know, was like, We need a product line where like, this also has to be inspiring and positive and really celebrating this woman. So it kind of started that way more about what is sort of the the mind frame of this woman right now. But I've been doing this now for over two years, and all of a sudden, I'm finding and I was not in menopause. I was in perimenopause, and I'm finding that those symptoms are getting worse. And I just started seeing a functional gynecologist in New York, who just did a Dutch test, which is like a big hormone test. And because I was having crazy irregular periods, and just a night sweats got started getting really bad. And I'm like, oh, here I am.

Sarah Milken  21:45

Sally's like to shame to

21:48

not just like, oh, you know, eventually, you know, one day, it'll all be like, Oh, here it is. You're in menopause. I had my birthday a few months ago, I'm and I'm turning 51. And Sally was like, we are now the average. So it's been really interesting because I am our target audience 100% And I'm also that customer who has had all kinds of crazy things happen, you know, like, my skin is changing. Like, I'm having really irregular periods. I have weird aches and pains. Like, all of a sudden Here I am, smack in the middle of perimenopause. So it's kind of come full circle where it was started about, you know, Sally and kind of just this lifestyle piece. And now I'm much more curious and interested in more of you know, what else is gonna happen? What's gonna happen? Well, you

Sarah Milken  22:38

could have a dripping I like I didn't. I mean, there's so and then it was funny. Not funny, but they're one of the women who was doing this Reiki activation session, her eye was dripping. And she's like, I'm not crying. I'm like, I totally get you. I'm like, I have the dripping fucking eye. I'm like, I took a Zyrtec this morning, because I don't want to be the girl with the dripping eye. You know? And it's like, all of these weirdo symptoms, and you're like, is that menopause? What the fuck is that? Do I need to go to a doctor? Or is that just part of the cluster?

23:11

Yeah, well, I didn't realize how much how many things are affected in your body by the changes in hormones. You know, the progesterone, estrogen, testosterone, like I was telling felt like, I have an insulin resistance issue forming. So do I welcome and my doctor was like, What's, it's a metabolic, it's part of your metabolic system. And you know, your hormones are changing, and it affects so many things. So one thing I would just say, if any, does anybody listening, you really don't realize that it affects you know, osteoporosis, brain health, heart health, your skin, your all your systems are affected by those changing hormones. And I don't think people realize, we certainly didn't learn this.

Sarah Milken  23:59

I know, it's like with our teenagers, we're like, oh, that's puberty. But we sort of don't make the same analogy for ourselves. Like, like, Oh, my son's being an asshole. Like, that's puberty like, fine, but we don't really think like crazy bitch. It's menopause. You know? Like, it's a whole thing.

24:15

It's her birth puberty.

Sarah Milken  24:17

And the best part is why the two together is a really hot yeah,

24:23

right combo.

Sarah Milken  24:24

It's so good. It's like I have a 16 and a half year old daughter and I have a son who's turning 19 and starting college and I'm like, where the fuck am I and what is happening here? Yeah. Oh my god going through menopause while their children are going through. Tough you know, puberty or teenage years life changes to so it creates a really dynamic it's a beautiful roller coaster swirl of shit. I will tell you but I love that creating women ass was sort of like your midlife. Free mixes and I use the word midlife Remix in my podcasts a lot because I it's better than a midlife crisis, right? Because I feel like midlife remix implies agency and I love the idea of agency. It's like, yes, this shit is happening to us. But there are things that we can do. Did you ever feel like in your midlife remixes of going from corporate America into entrepreneurship, that you felt scared? And you were like, how am I going to do this?

25:30

I think we feel scared every day. And that's good. That's a good thing. I think, of course, we're I mean, this is a first of all, everything, every change is scary. But it is so different from where Sally and I came from. But I also think and I'm speaking for myself, and Sally, you can join jump in, but like, I couldn't do this today, if I didn't have all my life experiences that got me here. All my various jobs, all my network of people, everything I've learned along the way, crises at work that you get yourself through, like, is scary as this is I think, Sally and I look at it like, we can do this, like we got this, we understand it. We've seen it before in different ways. But this is okay, we got it. But yes, I would say any change is pretty scary.

Sarah Milken  26:19

Well, I had my first scary transition when I left target, and started my own business at 45. And I had no clients, it was a consulting business, I literally left on a Friday and opened my business on Monday. Well, with no clients and you know, ended up I think surpassing my income the first year. So that was really a tough year, though, because, I mean, when you leave a corporate giant like that, that you'd like swaddled in, you know, like infrastructure. Yeah. But it's so shocking to go out on your own out on your own, and you have to be everything, you have to be your accountant, your tech person, your salesperson. So I think it's absolutely what Michelle said, but I feel like I almost had that transition 13 years ago when I left target, and that helped ease the shock, because it is so shocking, when you go from a large company to a small business, it's, and it's not for everyone, you really have to know yourself and your resiliency is absolutely paramount, you cannot do this, if you're really, you know, easily beaten down because it's so hard. I also think it relates to women who like any kind, any woman who's going through any kind of transition, for example, like I've been, I was a stay at home mom with a PhD for 18 years that PHP got really dusty. And then I decided, Okay, I'm gonna dust it off and come back and start a podcast or whatever. But I think that for women who are stay at home moms, for lack of a better term, there's never like, a great way of saying that, but I just say it because I include myself in there to kind of moving into that empty nest zone of, you know, their identity was really shaped around raising their children as it was for me, and then kind of stepping into like, okay, my kids are gone. Now. What the fuck now? Like, where am I going? Who am I without all of this? Yes, yes. And I think about that, too. As I get older, and you know, one point transition out of working for me, yeah, volunteer work. And, you know, part of me is excited for that part of me is like, geez, so much of this shapes my identity. It's true, you have to be thinking about your next step. And you know, that could be a whole nother podcast, too. Oh, my God. I know, my mom is 74. And she's been a CEO for 50 years. And she's thinking about, like, what her next move is. And she's just like, Sarah, my whole identity is based on this, like, Where do I even go from here? Right. And so it's sort of interesting to see women at every stage of like, what's next for me, and you want to live fully present, but you kind of got to keep your eye a hair to the future. It was like me, I knew that being kind of a super intense person and kind of hyper focusing on my kids for so long. Maybe I should have learned to cook or whatever all the things I didn't do whatever. My kids will get over it. There'll be in therapy for something, let it be that I didn't cook for them, right? planning for the future. And so I just felt like oh, my god, like my kids are getting close to leaving the house. Like I adore my husband. I've known him since ninth grade, but like he has a job and a career and what am I going to do with myself all day long and sideways. So I sort of preempted I tried to reamped a little the empty nest harshness with having something that was my own. You know, we'll see how it works out in August when I drop off kid number one the kid who's actually nicer to me right now, because it's a boy. Yeah, oh my god, I can't even think about it. But now and

30:21

even the fact that you took one step forward and you you tried something, it'll make the next thing that you do that much easier. The first step is the heart. I know

Sarah Milken  30:30

well, even with the live event, I was like, I'm gonna have a live event and I'm going to charge people money. That's so weird. How am I going to do that? Like, my podcast has been free for two and a half years. And now I'm charging women like a pretty substantial amount of money to come to my house for the day. That feels so

30:52

scary. Yeah,

Sarah Milken  30:55

you know, I did it. And I was like, Oh my God, but it's, it's, you know, every step just feels feels so good, but so hard at the same time. And I feel like you have this kind of combination of like fear of failure, the external peanut gallery, what's she gonna say? What's that person gonna say? And that like that inner Bitch Tape that's going you know, did you guys do you guys feel that inner bitch going? The critique? Or like, could I have done this better? Will this be successful? I

31:27

think that's really the curse of you know, women in so many ways. You know, we, we put so much pressure on ourselves. We want to be everything. We want to be good at everything. Yeah, it's just impossible. You're not good at everything. There are things that Sally are good at. There are things that I'm good at. And you have to accept that. But yes, I think unfortunately, you want to be successful. We're all like, highly motivated and ambitious. And yeah, if you just end up being your own worst critic. Ah,

Sarah Milken  31:58

the worst. Yeah. Now, did you guys have the same it seems like men operate very different. Oh, my God. Yes. My husband's like next step. Next step. Next step and I'm like, You're not gonna ruminate. I'm like, I'm rumination station. What's wrong with you? Yeah, it's so it's so crazy to me. Now, in terms of symptoms of menopause. Like, what's the weirdest symptom? You guys have come across? I feel like we know all the main ones. But like, is there like an odd baller that that's out there?

32:36

I don't know if

Sarah Milken  32:39

I've been told for dental, dental,

32:42

dental issue issues, issues change. You know, I, I think some of this like the in the insulin stuff we talked about, but I didn't had no idea or things. I was just talking to somebody about like, uterine pre prolapses and

Sarah Milken  33:00

so on, just Oh, my God, someone just DM me. And she's like, have you done an episode on prolapses yet? And I'm like, Oh,

33:08

that's much bigger. One in four women have some sort of prolapse. It's crazy. I was just hearing about this, and we were talking about it. That's, that happens, as you know, in this period of time, for sure. I would say you know, so many women talk to us about their sexual wellness issues. And yeah, that was my next one. Yeah, no. vaginal dryness is and low libido. And changing libido. It's really It's so common that I met a baby two years ago would have been like, oh my gosh, we haven't come up to us all the time. But I'm so used to it now. And I'm so sympathetic. Like, now that you know how common it is. It's like, yeah, everyone. Yeah, everyone I talked to it's

Sarah Milken  33:47

funny as you would think, like, I was once a porn star. And now I'm not. You don't I'm saying like the way we talk about libido. It's like, oh, yeah, I used to have sex every day. I'm like, What am I even complaining about here?

34:01

Yeah, no,

Sarah Milken  34:02

I know. But it's common. It makes me feel a little bit better when I heard it is so common. Yes. Women do take it very personally. And then it affects their relationship with their partner. Oh, for sure. It's like your onward spiral. So yeah, a lot of women are desperate for help. I know. And it's interesting how men like erectile dysfunction just doesn't seem like a big deal. There's like commercials about it. There's jokes about the Viagra. It's like, oh, yeah, I have to like take a pill to get an erection. But women don't talk about things like that. It's just different.

34:38

Yeah, yeah.

Sarah Milken  34:39

They think he doesn't let us you know, cover or advertise like that. So that's, you know, what we found too is we started to advertise our vaginal moisturizers in a very, very friendly way. Yeah. What are you allowed to say and what are you not allowed to say? Well, I think now we can say vaginal, but the word sex. Okay? We cannot say so. But you have to you have to create the ad submit the ad. And then you see if it gets approved and then sometimes we get approved and then unapproved. So I say we're with, you know, Facebook instructors inter inter intercourse is the same as sex.

35:25

Yeah, I don't think we could say that. Yeah, I think that would get flagged. Yeah. Anything that is going to like you we can almost use more like medicinal type language than our

Sarah Milken  35:34

make up words like, yeah, I don't know. Your magic jumper. I don't know. But it's it's sad, because it's like, that's just perpetuates this totally. Ooh, right. But yeah. Erectile Dysfunction ends get approved for the most part. And it's yeah, there's a lot of controversy in the in the industry right now is so interesting, all of us founders that are trying to help women and just all of the roadblocks that we're hitting. It's just so crazy to me now, in terms of your products. I mean, I think I know most of them. But let's tell the audience about the products that relate to the sex drama. in midlife,

36:19

we actually have three products. We have Coco bliss, which is our coconut based vaginal moisturizer. It smells great, it feels great, but very, very heavy ingredient is coconut oil. So you can only imagine the feeling the texture, the smell, you can use it for intimacy for vaginal dryness on a daily use, or like it's a massage oil. You know, women have said to us, they just love rubbing it on their elbows and their fingers like it is it just feels so luxurious and delicious. And amazing. We have a woman on our team who's like, I think she's now pregnant and she said oh, I think it was Coco bliss did it for me. That was one product and then we have a vibrator called Gold vibes. And it's

Sarah Milken  37:06

just so cute. It's like a lipstick vibrator all my guests got it.

37:09

It's it's a small lipstick shaped vibrator. And what's interesting, we've learned a lot we've talked to a lot of pelvic health experts, you know, key goals and really do help especially with that whole prolapse issue. It also helps with maintaining like a strong orgasm as you get older, it maintains your vaginal wall. So using a vibrator is really helpful like for all of that, and it's so important medically, as well as we're you know, pleasure. So you know, we wanted to make sure we had a vibrator in our line to go through of again and that taboo kind of conversation and has say this is another tool in your arsenal to help with some of these issues you're facing and there's nothing to be ashamed of and there's nothing to be to laugh at it's really great and helpful and then I think you had the wipes with you which oh yeah we're the wipes are here they're everywhere wipes which are you know pH balance that has a very very slight you know, cranberry extract in there also to help with UTIs and things like that is this a post sex WIPE TO it's really put your whole body if you post hot flash, post sex, whatever wherever you want to use and you can use it all over your body. We actually have one other item for in sexual wellness called Daily V Sood which is a water based vaginal moisturizers with the coconut based and the water I

Sarah Milken  38:31

was gonna ask you is what's the I mean I know you can't use oil if you're using a condom yes yeah, what the sort of differentiating

38:39

a preference thing a lot of women say waterbase because it has fewer ingredients and it feels cleaner. To be honest coconut oil is acts as an anti microbial and so in many ways the coconut based one is cleaner. Some women want the oil they find it feels really good and it makes their like you know sexual pleasure greater. And then for the waterbased you know, it's a really a preference thing, whatever it is that you like, I also think the oil based lasts longer so if you have vaginal dryness during the day, it like kind of tones down that friction you might feel I like this product but the Daily V is really if that's if you want to waterbase it's great for that customer also,

Sarah Milken  39:23

I know you guys work with medical brands as well like do you find that using these products along with you know, like I use vaginal estrogen for example, but that doesn't mean that I wouldn't use these two but they can kind of sort of coexist

39:39

100% You know 100% They they work together if you're a vaginal estrogen will help with libido and help with dryness and all of that but and these will supplement that for

Sarah Milken  39:50

sure. Yeah, and these are definitely like an on on the go situation. And

39:55

I'll also add all of our products are estrogen free and soy free and hormone Free, not. And again, we are, you know, we talk a lot on our site about HRT and hormone replacement therapy and estrogen therapies, and we're way in favor of them if that's right for you. But because so many women are not sure, or they have some sort of history, we just said, Our products are hormone free, and then you can make the decision about hormones on top of any womanist product.

Sarah Milken  40:20

Right now, that makes complete sense. Now in terms of your hero product, what is it, let's neck, the neck roll, you guys, I got that at your event, I love it. And the name of it, of course, is fab. Made with an advanced form of hyaluronic acid called high clear seven, which is really great for hydration, because even your neck skin and your dog starts to dry. So it's really important to keep that that skin, very hydrated. You know, that's sometimes where the creepiness comes from. And then there's pegmatite, which just adds a little bit it's a form of allergy and adds a little bit of tightening effect. So it's just how it freezes you but, and it's just a great rollerball that you know, some people even put in the refrigerator, so it's really cooling and massages. And it's great

41:16

for like that lymphatic massage where you if you pull it down, lay it like really you can really see a difference. So the combination of both the serum and the rollerball really kind of helps stretch out those muscles, and really helps kind of show some smoothness on your neck.

Sarah Milken  41:33

I feel like teen son will really love that when I'm rolling that on in his dorm room this summer and 100% humidity. We've just noticed some guys on Instagram that are using it. Oh my god. Yes. So it's adorable. I love it. You're in menopause to benefit from it. I mean, so many women are young, younger women are focused on tech neck. Yeah. Oh, that's so funny. You guys have sold out of it, like several times. Haven't you live five times? And now though? Yeah, we're good now, but it's just, it's just a universally loved item. That's so good. They could be like, I feel like they could be like good holiday gifts. Like if you want to just buy kind of a mid ticket ish item. For everyone. It will be like such a good one. Right? Yeah.

42:29

You know, it's not just for women in menopause for short. Like people we a lot of women talk about tech neck like we're all on our phones. Yeah. And because it's so ultra moisturizing and has that lasting sort of effect where the you know, if the longer you use it, the better the results will be. So a lot of women are buying it for if they're looking they consider they have tech neck or just general aging, whatever it is, it's a great product for should sell

Sarah Milken  42:57

it to like Apple or Google or something. As an employee benefit, I know you guys have products in several categories, what are those categories,

43:07

skin care, sexual wellness and supplements. So altogether, we have about 14 products. Yeah, and so the skincare covers skin all over your body, your face, your neck exaclty and your body we were product called the works. So that's all over bodies care. We have three supplements and our real like powerhouse supplement is called amino paws. And it helps with the real hard symptoms of menopause, night sweats, hot flashes, libido and brain fog. There's three active ingredients that are really great clinically studied ingredients, great data, and we have actually having amazing results with this SKU for this product. And then we have a sleep supplement which again helps you get better deeper sleep as we like to say and helps you fall asleep and stay asleep. It's called the product is actually called Let me sleep. We have a product called active glow, which is again hair, skin and nails. So much is changing in your body and women complain about their nails changing their hair changing so it's really about strengthening your hair roots, the density of your hair and your nails. And then sexual wellness we went through and we look at their line and sort of you know the first place we want women to go when they're suffering from the symptoms or having the symptoms and hopefully we're providing a product for them and the information they need.

Sarah Milken  44:28

Do you have shut the fuck up? My husband is snoring.

44:31

I wish I had that.

Sarah Milken  44:36

Adding that to the line but we're we're really a good one. We're really affordable. Everything is under $45 the average retail is about 2027 $28. So we want it to be affordable and really make sure every woman has the opportunity to you know get get better results. I feel like you guys need like a whole midlife toolkit where if you have a friend who comes who, you know, kind of hits the 12 month mark, you're like, here is your toolkit. I'm handing this to you. I don't know how much that would be with all 14 products. But we'll say, and I know the bank, we have some great kits on our site. So, yes, we'd love to sell if anyone's interested in buying a whole 14 products. Sally or Michelle and woman s and we will package it up in a nice, beautiful box for Yeah, it'll be a toolkit for a toolkit for a menopause toolkit for all of us. Now, you guys are like, obviously getting bigger and bigger every day. And now you're in target and Ulta and GNC. Like, how amazing does that feel that when women are a target buying paperclips? Like they're also buying your products, like it's becoming part of the everyday routine? Absolutely. So long overdue, I think, you know, retailers really are starting to understand that women's health has evolved so much. And that menopause is not for 65 and older women, it's really obviously happens to women in their 30s 40s 50s. And these are customers of these retailers. Right? These are men shopping at Target shopping at Alta shopping on Amazon. So think they're all very excited about a woman has been on the forefront of this movement and really offering something cool, modern and effective for women in this in this stage of life. Do these stores let you do any of those kind of like, you know, when you go to the market, and there's like the person handing out chocolate pieces of chocolate on toothpicks? Do they allow that kind of thing where you would have? I mean, obviously Kim Douglas is not going to do it. But like someone like that in the stores talking about it. Yeah.

46:58

Also does. And in some stores, we have our ambassadors out there helping to explain the product answer questions for the product. You know, different retailers have different programs, but Ulta is one we're really taking advantage of

Sarah Milken  47:11

right now. Okay, yeah, cuz that seems like it could kind of be a cool thing I'm offering myself No, I'm just kidding. Do you wanna? Yeah, my daughter, my daughter is an old a big old fan. So maybe she can be you know, the midlife female advocate. Right. Now, how do you think? Like, how quickly do you think the narrative is going to change for men? And understanding really what's going on? And what are you guys hearing and seeing on the ground in your community? Well, I think some of our biggest fans are men. And I only say that because many men that have wives and menopause really stood up and invested in us from the very beginning. So I think Michelle and I were really pleasantly shocked at just how supportive men from that respect have been. But I think men do want to be part of this, they've reached out to us, you know, there's been a few along the way that have said, you know, keep talking about this, keep opening up the conversation, don't leave us out. And so we want to just continue doing that, you know, in a variety of ways. I mean, I think what we also don't want to do is kind of make fun of men. While there's been some other advertising in the market where let's see if men have you know, what they would be like if they had hot flashes. Right, right, right. You don't want to do that. We want to bring men into the conversation, maybe through humor, we'd love to also find, you know, a husband and wife that are willing to talk about us and kind of banter back and forth. So there's a ton of marketing ideas. Yeah, my husband's like, I don't understand how I became the venture capitalist married to a midlife vagina person. Yeah, podcasts are like, like, I did not sign up for this. But you know, he's actually like, very proud of me. But he was like, I never like envision this to happen. It's, it's actually hysterical. Because he's like, helping me like make labels and all this stuff over the weekend. He's like, how did I get this job? I don't understand. And unlike, he gotta be the assistant sometimes. Yeah, yeah. Right. Like we all have to. Now do you think that the narrative is is changing, that men are understanding more not just investors, but the Everyday Guy is not just like, Oh, my wife just doesn't feel like having sex or she's a looney tune. Like, do you think they unders are starting to understand menopause more?

49:38

I think it's so many women don't understand menopause. So I think I think the more it's talked about, the more it's out there, the more women feel comfortable talking about it. I think men will come along and there's definitely men that want to know more because they love their wives and they want more their partner and they want to make sure their partner feels great and there's definitely that out. there, but for the most part, I think women are going to lead the lead the way here. And the more women understand their bodies and take ownership and advocacy of their own bodies, they'll be able to say to their husbands Listen, like I'm not 100 years old. It feels so great right now.

Sarah Milken  50:17

I feel like I'm 100 right now. Totally. I love it. But I also think that like, if you look at just aging in general, it's like, Oh, Kevin Costner and Harrison Ford are so fucking hot. And everybody's talking about it. And they're as they get older. But for women, it's not the same thing. Yeah, there's still a lot of ageism out there. Yeah. It's kind of interesting to see how that plays out. It's like women, that as they get older, like the Sex in the City girls or whatever, it's like, oh, she had this done, or she needs to do this or whatever. And it's like, everyone just do you, like living your own life as a big enough job. Absolutely, you know, getting into other people's, as brands, we just have to continue featuring and focusing and highlighting these fabulous women, you know, yeah. Plastic surgery or not. It's up to them as UCLA. Yeah, I'm like, get the Botox don't get the Botox. Yeah, I'm

51:17

sure some of those guys have had some work done too.

Sarah Milken  51:20

Yeah. Give me a fucking break. I totally agree. Okay, switching gears for a second, obviously, creating a female menopause skincare company. You guys have kids? Michelle, I don't know your what you I have two boys. 17 and 15. Okay, and Sally? Yes. Two kids. 26 year old boy and 23 year old girl. Okay, so Michelle has probably had more teenage interaction.

51:52

Yes.

Sarah Milken  51:56

How so? Are you the one that your son found the vibrator on your desk?

52:00

Oh, not even found these. They're just here. Very funny. You are. I mean, they're so used to it now. But it was there was a moment, you know, I mean, it took a while. And you know, even understanding what I do for like what I do for a living and I started this company. And I think that there was, you know, there's a combination of being so proud of me and really wanting to lay down like, oh my gosh, my mom is founder and she has a startup and she's in People Magazine. And like, that's so cool on one hand, but then when you're when their friends are like, so what is the company and they're like, menopause. I think they've learned a lot about themselves and they have become much more open kids. And they're they're self deprecating themselves. They have a lot of humor around it. And I have like, they're very supportive of me. And I think it's great. And Sally, Sally.

Sarah Milken  52:53

They're so cute. Yeah. Eli will say how's the menopause busy today? Yeah. So funny because my like my kids, friends, like they're here all day and all night every day. And like, some of them walked in last night. And they're like, Are there any more flexible neurotic pink water bottles? I'm like, You guys are 18 year old boys like what are you talking about? But I think at first my kids were like, what the FOC? And are you joking? I mean, let me thoughts be honest. They don't listen to the podcast, because that's like cringe, like listening to your mom's voice listening to her talk about weird stuff. Like, no, thank you. Instagram, they're not in love with but they have no choice. I like completely throw them under the bus all day long. You know, and people enjoy it. And I say, I don't think they love it. But they're not like laying down on the floor saying that, like they're gonna like collapse if I do one more thing. So that's been a really nice thing. But I also like, Michelle was saying, like, I think at the end of the day, they're very proud of me. And they're like, Oh, my God, like you actually did this. And they were here when the women were here. And they took photos with them and whatever, because they're such a big part of the Instagram that everyone's like, teen daughter, teen son, you know, we all took a picture. And it was really cute. But I think for them it like sort of made it even more real. Like they're actually like meeting the women who listen to the podcast and I don't know, it was it was kind of a nice, like, full circle moment for sure. But having kids in the process is definitely an interest interesting thing.

54:33

It's all right. It's part of changing the conversation. It's it really is being and it allows you to have other conversations, you know, as you're talking about your own, like what's happening with our bodies. Oh my god. Oh, tails into what's happening. Yeah, and

Sarah Milken  54:46

I was actually just gonna say that, like I at the Friday Night Dinner of my event, all the women and I were talking about like, what we talk like what topics we've talked about with our teenagers or whatever. And I was like, You guys I like talk About manscaping like for years, like I said to my son, I was like, I don't need to, like know, details. I just, I just want to know, like, know that, you know, like, just hygiene and like, I don't know, aesthetic, you know, whatever. And he's like, Mom, I got it. I got it. And I'm like, okay, and then of course, there's like a manscape are coming from Amazon and the whole thing. And he's like, Please don't talk to me about porn one more time. And my daughter's like, Please don't talk, you know, it's like, but they also feel comfortable enough having those conversations again, I would have never talked about those things with my mom. Ever, ever, ever. Yeah. Oh, like Not a chance? No. So it's good. It's great that, you

55:44

know, it's great that we're all doing this.

Sarah Milken  55:46

I know, even as awkward it is, I won't say my husband does. But he sits there like a potted plant and pretend that he's part of the conversation just by sitting there. So whatever. We let that we let that slide. Now. I think another big part of women as as it is, for my platform is community. Like we all want to know that we're not alone. We all want to feel like we have someone to talk to tell me about the community. You guys are building and your Facebook community called after party. Yeah, we started the after party because the after parties are usually more fun than the actual party. That was the name I love. And we have this fabulous, really funny woman named Dan Goble who's 53 full blown menopause. But she's just incredible. And she really organized the whole afterparty and jumps in and helps just kind of spur conversation, but it's we have over 4000 members, wow, bring in a lot of experts and share a lot of our information. And the women are chatting with each other to share, you know, not just menopause tips, but just midlife and what's happening. So it's really inspiring. And then, you know, we do a lot of events. So community for us isn't just the after party, but that's a big part of it. So we love doing events. There's not, you know, one set schedule for our events. Last year, we did this amount of positivity too early. Yeah, I was just gonna ask you about that. Yeah, that was really great. We did that in October. And what was that? Well, we brought in experts. So we had like in LA, we had sex with Emily, Emily Morris. Douglas spoke. And Michelle and I spoke. I think we had one other doctor there. But usually it was like a cross section of experts. And we just make it really informative and fun. And women don't usually want to leave because they're learning so much. And they're just shocked at how much they don't know. So it's like menopause on the road. Yeah, exactly. And we did one in Dallas, and we did one in Oregon. So we're we love doing events, we would do a lot more of them. They're just really as you know, a lot to plan and excellent. So, but we plan on doing more in the next obviously the next six months. Yeah, no, I love that. Now, the other thing I like about your platform is that it's not just about community and not just about your products, but it's actually serving real content. And you guys don't claim to be gynecologist or content experts. You really collaborate with content experts, like her MD or the Mayo Clinic. Tell me about that. Yeah, well, the Mayo Clinic obviously is a spectacular organization, and they've really specialized in women's health. So we approached them before we launched and spoke to Stephanie Fabiana, who runs that whole Women's Health Center. And she gave us this phenomenal Dr. Dr. Ekta Kapoor that has been with us for two and a half years and she writes pieces, you know, whether it's menopause in the workplace, or, you know, how to one Yeah, menopause one on one. She's writing all different pieces. You know, we get a lot of input from our community on what they want to hear from us. And then she many times is the expert we go to for, I would say more of that, you know, tried and true menopause content. But Emily Morris, Dr. Morris really helps us with a lot of sexual wellness content. Dr. Javaid from her MD has helped us write a lot of content as well. So we really feel like we've vetted the best of the best. And there's always new experts coming to us and we're always talking to new experts, because so many women now are going into the field of menopause too. Yeah, I think they've realized there's such a huge opportunity to make a difference.

59:57

So pelvic floor specialist nutrition Shiness diet experts, sleep experts and we ask the questions we want to know.

Sarah Milken  1:00:05

Oh, really? That's like my podcast. It's like the beauty card.

1:00:10

You know, why does everything hurt? So we asked all of you know, we had a happiness expert about how to find happiness and midlife. I mean, we've had some amazing people, but we really do source it from our community of like, what are people talking about? And then what are things that Sally and I want to know about?

Sarah Milken  1:00:26

Totally, it's so good. Now, going back to the idea of self responsibility and self advocacy. I just feel like it's such a beautiful lesson also for like our daughters and children that like you kind of don't just accept what's handed to you, that you keep digging for more. And if the information that you get or the prescriptions that you get aren't working, you don't just take it for what it is that you really stand up for yourself, do the research, find a different doctor, get a second opinion, get a third opinion if you have to. I think so many women in this space, a lot of women who message me they're like, my doctor said, No HRT, my doctor said, blah, blah, blah. And I keep saying like, go to them with these research papers. There are doctors like Mary Claire, whoever, whoever who have these blog posts with the actual research articles, print them out, and take them to your doctor. And if that doctor is not willing to have that kind of conversation with you, you need to switch doctors, it's just par for the course. Just fucking deal with it. It's midlife like, we're done with

1:01:34

that. Yeah, absolutely. And I don't even I think you're being generous with asking people to do the work and come home. You know, I feel like if your doctor, if you're hearing from your friends or your reading that HRT is really safe, or really works, and you're having symptoms, find a doctor that's trained in menopause or perimenopause, and who is more open to having the conversation and explaining the pros and cons, and isn't going to just come right out with a no, you deserve more information to that like at least no. Why? Why are some doctors saying no? Why are some doctors saying yes, what does it mean for me in my body? And there are plenty of doctors out there that are trained that you can find they're harder to find.

Sarah Milken  1:02:16

Yeah, they are. But like Mary Claire, Claire Haber, for example, like she has a whole list of doctors that are approved by other women that that her company has vetted. And, you know, then there's companies like her MD, there's, you know, clinics, there's like, telephone stopped, like, there's so many different versions. But again, it's the work it's like, Who has time to manage all this shit and their lives? It's a lie. And yes, doctors that are good are super busy. Yeah. Oh, my, it's like, Oh, I'm not taking new new patients. I'm like, really? Okay. So we, we are so sympathetic. And yeah, I coach women on what to do, but you do have to really take control. And yeah, and if you're

1:03:01

a big city, it's better. You know, like, for sure, LA's. There's a lot more doctors here than you know, in other parts of the country. And I think we're lucky to have you know, Sal, you have the Mayo Clinic, but it's, it is hard. And you know, I think again, things are gonna change. But here where your friends are getting better information here we come to our community, ask the community I live in, you know, XY and Z, I need a doctor, like, I think you really got to, you do have to put the time in, but it's worth it.

Sarah Milken  1:03:28

For sure. Now, in terms of woman asked, like, if somebody were to be like, Well, why is it different from bla bla bla bla bla bla, like, what? What would you say are the differentiating factors? I mean, I know what I think there but to the product. Yeah, just you know, if like, if you lined up a bunch of menopause products, like why is woman as different?

1:03:50

We like to say we're a full solution. So we're skincare supplements and sexual wellness, we think we cover the most symptoms, everything is formulated for women in that time of their life and really focusing on the symptoms that they're having. And we're affordable and accessible. Those are like the real differentiating characteristics. I mean, we look at this, like every woman is going to go through these hormonal changes at some point in their life at various degrees. And we want to make sure that she has something available to her. Yeah. And we're estrogen free, soy free.

Sarah Milken  1:04:24

So it's basically like clean products. And they also don't look like you're in like a geriatric ward. No, they're on your bathroom counter. Legacy products. I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but they're not made with clean formulations. Yeah, no, it's true. We've been very transparent about our ingredients on our supplements and we chose not to go into like or add these mysterious concoction. Yes. Like the woman has secret. Yeah, exactly. Totally. Why is that secret? Yeah. Everything is super transparent in Mino paws. There's three ingredients, like Michelle said, and they're, you know, there's no fillers, there's nothing weird. It's like it just is what it is what it is. I love that. And I also love that your products can be used, like after quote menopause. You know, it's like, it's sort of like you could use it whenever you wanted to. Yes, yeah, we have a lot of our customers are in their 30s all the way into their 70s. So good. Now, I guess you would call it like an angel investor group. That's all women, right? I mean, I know that I've met some of them in LA. Was that like part of the strategy where you're like, Oh, if we get like, like minded leg vibed women investing their own money into this, we're gonna have this whole collection of kickass women as our cheerleaders and spokes people, because it seems like you've done that. That's the goal is to get more women to help create the groundswell because we're not Michelle and I are not celebrities. So we're hard working, women running this business. And we need help. We need those women to be amplifying our message and telling their friends about us. And then, you know, it just starts to kind of blossom over time. So that was the goal was to really bring in more women, as investors that feel like they have a lot of lot at stake. Right. Yeah. Company. Yeah, I mean, I can definitely see that. And then I get a newsletter. And it's like, well, Molly Sims uses these products and data. So it's like, and you're not paying them to do this. So it's like everyone is invested in your product in you guys. And you can kind of feel that energy. It's not just like a stale product staring at you on Instagram. There's like a whole energy behind it.

1:06:55

Yeah, yeah. That we want women into our mission and into what we're trying to do. It's different than just like, you know, we have regular investors also. But it's a very different energy, having women who really are like, yes, I want this to be different for my daughter, I want this to be different for myself. And I want to invest in brands that are going to change this, you know, let's make get more doctors trained. Let's get more information out there for women. And it's brands like ours and brands like this that are going to make those changes.

Sarah Milken  1:07:24

It's so good. And it's palpable. You can feel it now. Kind of sidetracking back to a point that we sort of talked about towards the beginning, if there are women listening, who are like I really want to like do something new, in my midlife remix, whether it's like a business venture or hobby or a new project or anything in between, like, do you have like one piece of advice that you would give women who are wanting to do their next thing, whatever that is?

1:07:50

Failure, what advice would you give? The

Sarah Milken  1:07:53

answer would be yes, do it. Now's now's the time, I always tell women to lean on their network. Now you've spent decades building your friend group your community, and you know, maybe your work colleagues and lean on them they want to.

1:08:09

So yeah, I was you know, after, like, run it by your friend, group, run it by your community, like get feedback, don't be scared of feedback. Because sometimes you have to hear the, you know, hear the bad news in order to make, that's a good point, whatever you're doing even better. But definitely, you know, share it, share the idea, share it with your friends, and see what they think. And you know, hopefully, that will build they'll buy into your mission and support you and give you the energy and good vibes that you need. It's a lot of work. There's no doubt about it. It's all consuming. If you really, really believe in what you're doing, and really want it to be successful. It is a lot of work. It's a lot of hard work. And it's great. I mean, I think Sally and I love it. And we're thrilled to be here and talking to you about it. But it's no joke. It's a lot of work.

Sarah Milken  1:09:01

It is a lot of work, and mine's like a quarter time. I mean, not even close to what you're doing. And I'm like, Are there any hours left in the day? What's happening here? You know, like, what's it what's going on? Yeah, I also read the both of you have had really supportive husbands in this not just financially but emotionally the whole thing. And I feel very blessed to have had that also, because it really does take a team and a village to put something bigger together. I mean, do you have any advice for women whose husbands are like, that's just a hobby that's not going to work or whatever. It's hard. It's hard when they have that kind of attitude, right. But yeah, Michelle and I were really, I think, grateful that our husbands were really supportive because as you know, we self funded the business out of the gate. And so we both were writing our checks you down 10,000 20,000 Whatever. And it's scary because you Don't now, you know, are we gonna get funded? Is target gonna say yes. You know, it was a lot of like high stakes at that point. So, but both of our husbands have been really supportive. And it was just, you know, all about keeping, you know, keep going, keep going. It's a great idea. And you just need that reinforcement. Oh, it's so good. Because sometimes I mean, as an entrepreneur or doing something new, it's like, you sort of feel alone? Yeah. And, yeah, and if you're coming from a company like you did, and then you're going to sort of do it on your own, even though you have Michelle, it's still such a so much smaller of a feeling. Yeah, I think it's so important. If women are feeling like their, you know, their partners are resisting, you have to get to the bottom of that, because either you're gonna sacrifice something, right? Oh, you are. I mean, I was I was with a woman yesterday, who has a company sort of similar to yours starting out. And she said that she said to her husband, like, I need $30,000 to like finish X, Y, or Z. And he was like, no. And she was like, What do you mean? Like, I've been working on this for 10 years, and there was just no budget. You know, and it's like, I think sometimes, like, even with me, like, even though my husband annoys me half the time, I'm like, I'm so lucky that he's willing to like make labels and pay bills that you know, I need to pay.

1:11:25

Yeah. I mean, I guess if you don't have a supportive person, like there's always gonna be somebody that's not supportive of your totally going, so. I'm gonna prove them wrong.

Sarah Milken  1:11:36

Yeah. Family prove them wrong. Now some money issue she can find $30,000 some other way? Yes. I think the most important part is like the emotional support. That you're there. You're a cheerleader. So and that's, that's more important than the money. Yeah, you need you need someone who's going to be like with you in those shitty days and good days, big wins, little wins all the things. Now before we wrap up, Michelle does is not empty nest. But Sally is Sally, what's your advice to Michelle, me and all the listeners about empty nest joy every minute? I know it goes by so fast. Everyone says then and say no, but it's true. The days are long. And the years are short. Yeah. I have told my friends that, you know, even me, maybe an empty nester. And then on top of it, they decide to retire. But always have hobbies, like have other things that you're investing in for yourself, whether it's like, I'm going to finally learn how to play tennis, or I'm going to become a really good cook, or whatever it is, but I think women can't, they just need to invest in themselves too, so that they're not in shock when their kids leave the nest. And just remember, at some point, they might come back. I have a friend who was faster and now both boys are moving back. Ah, that's kind of scary, too. I want to save money while I'm going to med school or whatever. Yeah, it's it's like a cycle. Right? Totally enjoy the empty nest year. I know that's the thing is like, I wouldn't want my eyes. Like I say that I want my son to live here forever. But I mean, that's not healthy. And that's not normal. For him to go to Wharton, and yeah, it's gonna be great. But it does. You know, it's hard, like, oh, Sam, and you know, and then. And then after that, then he's probably on the grass never coming home. Yeah, you know, he's gonna marry some chick from New York, it's gonna be a whole thing. You know, like, let's be fucking real. I know. I know, you save that children and you get to have the grandchildren. And you know, you just hope that I'll just be following my kids around. Don't worry about it. Like, I mean, I'll be like moving from place to place and my husband's you'd be like, what's happening here, you know? Oh, my God, and to just bought a house in New Mexico because her daughter lives there. And she's just like, going back and forth. So I think a lot of people are doing that now to be closer to their kids. Yeah, I gotta figure out where my daughter is going to college first before I relocate myself to the east coast and deal with cold weather and humidity and hot summer's

1:14:33

here, but it's nice.

Sarah Milken  1:14:35

I know. New York. There's I mean, you can't beat New York like you just can't I mean, even with all the humidity and everything. Well, you guys I have loved talking to you. I know that it took us a minute to get it together. I love picking your brain asking all the questions that midlife women have on their minds. I love how you emphasize and women asked how menopause is a lifestyle change in some ways, but not a lifestyle and stir. And I think we're gonna call this episode ready for it. It's hot in here. As we wrap up if listeners want to find you Where can they find you? womanist.com Instagram is my woman s and Facebook as well and follow us on Tik Tok LinkedIn. You know, Michelle and I are very active on LinkedIn we love Are you guys tick tock dancers. I haven't looked at you on tick.

1:15:25

Dancers but we are on tick tock.

Sarah Milken  1:15:27

Okay. Do you do you actually are you on it? Michelle? You personally?

1:15:31

Yeah, we both have done

Sarah Milken  1:15:32

tic TOCs Wow. I'm impressed. Not to be everywhere. I know women. Monitor women. Wow. I'm gonna look that up. I want everyone to think about what shit they can start doing today. One small step. I want to thank Sally and Michelle, the founders woman asked for sharing their personal stories and their brand woman S Thank you for sharing how you're changing the narrative of the fucking from the lumpiness of menopause. With brands like you and platforms, we're making women quote ready for it. Thank you, Sally and Michelle, for coming to the flexible neurotic podcast and becoming new friends. Thank you. This was great. This was so fun you guys. Hey, peeps, it's me again. I listened to this episode was Sally Mueller and Michelle Jacobs, co founder of woman as a Women's Health and Ageing company. I wanted to summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listen to a long episode, I'm like, oh my god, I love that. But then I can't even fucking remember the specifics. This is why come back and do a golden nugget summary. In this episode. We dug deep with our golden shit shovels in a conversation that's called it's hot in here all things midlife and menopause. Golden Nugget. Number one what is woman as womanist is a brand a women's health brand of aging products, products for menopause. And a lot of their products actually made it into my midlife baby shower experience my first live event at my house because woman as was so kind and being one of the sponsors of my event. I'm so thankful. In short woman acid is a brand all about women celebrating a transition in life fucking menopause. Sally and Michelle realize there was a huge gap in the market when it came to modern information on products for women and menopause and perimenopause. And I took it upon themselves to fill that gap with intention and help guide women in this quote, taboo topic and selling modern products that women will need during this time in our lives. Golden Nugget number two women are not prepared for menopause and there's minimal menopause support out there. Ugh, Sally and Michelle reiterate the fact that there are no books like What to Expect When You're Expecting when it comes to menopause. We have all the information about pregnancy aging, blah, blah, blah. But in terms of menopause, we don't really have that. I know that I'm speaking for a lot of you when I say that we midlife women have turned to Instagram comments and Tik Tok videos to share and receive information about what the fuck is going on in our bodies and our minds. And now thanks to this narrative that is changing. We're starting to have more information and relatability between and amongst women finally, and it doesn't just stop there because thanks to brands like women ask the narratives are spreading and changing and they're bringing men into the conversation about menopause too. We're not making this shit up guys, truly doing the work of midlife menopause fairies, Sally and Michelle Golden Nugget number three, the woman s community also known as the after party. We talked about community building a lot in this episode, the side of women going through menopause and the beauty of the online support systems we build with each other. And women as is taking it to the next level with their community experience called the after party, which is a Facebook group organized by women so that cultivates a community of members, where women can talk about midlife menopause sharing tips and tricks, their favorite aging products you name it. Oh my god, I love their neck roll or Letson neck is such a cute name. So they even threw an event last year about Menno pause it tivity where they brought in experts to talk about sex health and everything women midlife and menopause. Golden Nugget number for sexual wellness in midlife and products you need to know about you guys the products of women as offers are life changing, and they're actually super cute and pretty. They all sit on my bathroom counter. I mean seriously. If you haven't tried them you need to ASAP they have the cutest names Like Me no pause let's neck gold vibes which is actually this little vibrator that looks like a lipstick like a purple and gold lipstick. It's actually kind of cute. All of their packaging is so cute like I said and you will never be embarrassed to have them out on your shelf or in your purse I swear. Check out the show notes for all the products with links that we discussed in today's episode. The gold is dripping off these nuggets, rabbit use it there are three things you can do. First, fucking subscribe to the podcast. You think it doesn't matter but it helps the podcast grow. Second, share it with some friends who liked midlife shit. And third, write in Apple review. writing reviews is really annoying. It's an extra step. But guess what? It really helps the podcast grow. You think your little review won't matter but it does. If you want to show when everyone said my clap doesn't matter. Then there will be no clapping. You all matter. DM me, you know I always respond and of course follow my instagram at the flexible neurotic da love you talk soon