Creating Light In
Midlife Darkness
Jen Delvaux 0:00
This whole thing has been like a mind fuck like truly like it has it when you are stripped from that you need to figure out who you are again. And I think people like they don't want a diagnosis or midlife to change them, but it does. And so you need to just kind of go with it.
Sarah Milken 0:23
Hey, peeps, welcome to the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Sarah Milken. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like last fucking year. I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day, I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD wipe the menopause, sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shovel and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just love coffee and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this. Hi, Fi. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, and this is the flexible neurotic Podcast. Today I have a very interesting guest. She's the host of her own podcast show, not today cancer. She's the author of a new book called not today cancer. She's a health and fitness coach who inspires others to live their best lives. But most importantly, her mission is to help women navigate cancer and take control of their diagnosis and their health. She is not just a cancer survivor. She calls herself a thriver. And she's married to one too. Wait till you hear this. Shocking, right? How can both husband and wife be diagnosed with cancer within the same 10 years, she was diagnosed with breast cancer in 2021 10 or so years after her husband was diagnosed with brain cancer. Together, they talk openly and honestly about their own struggles on their podcast. He's her co host, and how they have been able to get through it in a positive way. She's going to tell us how she and her husband learned to thrive not just survive. And according to her she's an extra and over the top with everything she does lashes shoes, even all of her healing modalities. You name it, she's tried it, except for the cold plunge. She just can't do it. Well, neither can fucking I even have a hot flashes. So her name is gentle VO and she might be our new best friend. Hi, Jen.
Jen Delvaux 2:37
Hi. I'm so excited to be here.
Sarah Milken 2:39
So happy you're here. You're in Michigan. I'm in LA.
Jen Delvaux 2:44
I'm jealous.
Sarah Milken 2:45
I know. You're sweating your balls off. Probably. Yeah, it's
Jen Delvaux 2:47
like 95 here today and the humidity is what 4 million. 4 million. Exactly.
Sarah Milken 2:53
Oh my god, but your hair looks good as long as you stay within air conditioning right.
Jen Delvaux 2:58
And have lots of hair extensions help.
Sarah Milken 3:00
Oh yeah. And dry shampoo. I'm like, yes. All inflammable like don't get near my hair. Jeremy. Okay. Okay, so if you've listened to my podcast, which I know you have, you know about my proverbial midlife golden shovel. I'm sure you have many. So get it out because we're going to dig in Jen. Alright, I can't even wait. Oh my god. Okay, so I have a few intentions for this episode. First, I want you to meet Jen and hear how you her and her spouse have cancer diagnoses and they still get up every damn day with a great mindset and Jews to make their own lives and the lives of others even better. The second intention is for us to dig deep with Jen and find out how and why she and her husband Darren just didn't fall into the hole of why the fuck us. Third things Jen says she does to help with keeping her body mind and midlife VJ healthy based on years of researching cancer, menopause and every healing modality and fourth things we should do and not do if we get cancer diagnoses ourselves or a friend or family member does. I read Jen's book and it's the real deal and we're gonna talk about it. Here we go, Jen.
Jen Delvaux 4:21
Okay, where do we even begin honestly, I
Sarah Milken 4:23
don't know this could be like five fucking hours. But right. Like I said, I obviously we're going to talk all about the cancer but I also want people to realize that this is going to be a juicy podcast, about midlife women things that even if you don't have cancer you can do to keep yourself healthy because you're in the thick of it and you're researching this stuff all day long.
Jen Delvaux 4:44
Yeah, I mean, the thing about it is is the research I'm doing for the cancer, you know, because I was blasted into menopause, is midlife stuff. Like I'm like everybody's dealing with it. You know I did the not today cancer now I'm diving into the whole not today menopause and getting women involved in that, and a lot of them aren't diagnosed, but I'm just helping them with natural ways. Because when you're diagnosed you unfortunately can't do the HRT hormone replacement therapy, right? Just not.
Sarah Milken 5:11
That is not fun. I mean, I I've talked about this before, I'm not on HRT yet, but I do take birth control pills, which is sort of aversion. A lot of estrogen. So that has definitely saved me or I would even be more of a looney tune than I am right now. Yeah. So the goal of your platform book podcast, your whole gig, what is it? Truly, it's
Jen Delvaux 5:35
to help women, mostly women, but it's just to thrive through a diagnosis thrive through like, we're all going to be hit with menopause, right? Like, how do you get through it in a good way or in a positive way? Like, don't be in this, like, Oh, my God, okay, now I'm in this now what, like, you have to be able to overcome this, and not just survived through it. And I just get by I want you to, like, thrive through it, like become a better person, because of it, like learn, you know, all the different modalities. But you know, I think back when Darren was diagnosed in 2009, it was so different, a little bit different than because it was more on him, right. And so I was like the caretaker, I was taking care of him. And then when I was diagnosed, I was like, holy shit. I gotta frickin take control of this. Like, I was, like, shocked that it happened. But I was like, What can I do? Because I don't want to be known as a survivor. I mean, some people love that everybody is so individual with their own cancer, but I didn't want to just be a survivor. I was like, having the hardest time even being recognized as a cancer patient. Like, I did not want that at all. Because I am like a caregiver. I'm like, the strong person in my family. And that just like, was shocking to me. So I was like, I am not just getting through this. I'm gonna thrive through it.
Sarah Milken 6:54
Yeah, it probably gives you a sense of control to
Jen Delvaux 6:57
Oh, my God, totally. When you hear the words cancer, you are stripped from control. And I was like, Okay, how can I take control of this? Because I guess I listened to what the doctor said. But I was like, Okay, I knew that's not it. And I knew I needed to do more on my end. So doing the work and the all the things that I've learned literally saved my mental space, like the women that I meet, that have not done any other healing modalities, other than just what the doctor said, struggle with, like fear,
Sarah Milken 7:31
and it gets so into that. Yeah, I feel like there's so many things that you're doing that even if we don't have cancer, we should be doing totally. So I want to give everyone kind of like, the two minute Jen and Darrin rundown, obviously, jump in with the cancer details, because I feel like your whole cancer diagnoses in that trajectory, because I've listened to you on other podcasts could be like four hours,
Jen Delvaux 7:55
totally. They'll give you the story. There's other podcasts that you can listen to, we'll go dive into it all. But with this, we're just living life in our 30s Having fun, and then Darren was diagnosed and it was a 2009. So he was I think he was 36 or 37. And And how old are your kids? Drew was four and Maddie was like nine we were like, shocked. Like literally and at this point in my life, I hadn't reached that point where I was like, I just kind of started getting into health and fitness and just kind of learning a little bit about that. But it was like, it just consumed me like I was I was very different than that I am now where I was. I literally I was like give me drugs. Like I don't even know how I'm going to deal with this. Like he was my best friend. I thought you're diagnosed with brain cancer. You're dying. Like I didn't think that you could survive that I just it was the first time anything like this had ever happened. It was on my birthday. Insane, right? We're like literally chills. Ah, we went out to dinner with my family. And then we were planning on meeting friends out for drinks afterwards. We're just doing this silly little MRI. And they bring us up to the ER, it was insane.
Sarah Milken 9:11
And so he of how he even found out like I read and listen to you talk about how he was like trying to write emails and writing simple emails was like taking him a half an hour and you were less sketcher asked to the doctor.
Jen Delvaux 9:24
Yes. Yeah, it was just weird stuff. Like, if you asked him, he would say I knew I had brain cancer. Like he told his doctor. I think I have brain cancer. And he was like, well, we're probably not 99% sure we're not but we'll do an MRI just to be sure. And he was the fact he had brain surgery like four days later. And he healed pretty quickly from that surgery. We had a terrible surgeon like oh my god, I could do a whole show on doctors and who to stay far away from who how to get a good doctor. But anyway, that's a whole different show. Then he came back 18 months later had her. So then he we went to Houston, we flew to MD Anderson, and he had a wake brain surgery. So it was like a eight hour surgery and it was awake for three hours of it. I heard him
Sarah Milken 10:10
talking about that, because they had people there who are like, do this Darren like, yes. Because they wanted to make sure that what they were touching in his brain wasn't going to affect it. Right?
Jen Delvaux 10:20
Yeah. So they do a whole bunch of brain mapping beforehand. And so it's like two days of testing before he goes into the surgery. And then yeah, so they know what to expect from his brain signals. And they've already asked him the questions, and so they kind of know what to expect. And so that's how they figure out making sure they're not touching any areas that could affect his speech, or motor skills, like anything like that. So wild.
Sarah Milken 10:44
So when did he have the stroke? So that was
Jen Delvaux 10:47
after the second brain surgery. So that was the hardest time in our marriage, or not even just in our marriage, but like, I literally did not think he was going to survive. Like I didn't, my mom even like sat me down and said, Honey, no, you know, like, if he's here in a year, it's gonna be a miracle. I'm like, I know, I know. Because he had a stroke afterwards, he had an infection on the side of his tumor. He was in the hospital for a month. He was like, I didn't even know who he was. And he was sick for an entire year. So like, an entire year, I was his caretaker. You know, I was not his wife, there was not a romantic relationship. We'll dive into that too, in a little while. But it was just crazy. It was crazy. Like two kids, right? Two kids that like, couldn't have friends over because he was sick all the time. It was just a nightmare. But I'll tell you what, our kids have learned a lot from it. But
Sarah Milken 11:38
so did you. I mean, obviously, we're gonna get into all the details. But do you just like, go numb and power through it? Because how the fuck do you wake up every day. I mean, that's like a ton of bricks on top of you 24 hours a day.
Jen Delvaux 11:51
God, I just, I took it all in it was my job. It was my full time job is was to take care of him. I mean, I also was doing my I shouldn't say is my full time job. I was also working my online business, I was doing something different. That would give me a little like, away from the whole cancer thing. And I had friends that would take me out and family that would come help. Because if you're going to be a caretaker to somebody else, you have to be taking care of yourself. You have to be filling your cup. Like if I didn't have my workouts if I wasn't focused on nutrition, if I wasn't focused on helping other women, like figure out their own health like or have my friends or family, then yes, I would not have been getting out of bed. Truly, no,
Sarah Milken 12:30
it's amazing that you could have because it's like, you can go two ways. Yeah, you can go to like a dark blob of like depression, no judgement, right? And just be incapacitated and paralyzed. Or you just like, or you can go into like power mode and be like, dude,
Jen Delvaux 12:48
yeah, I know. And he's like, just just frickin walking miracle. Like, I don't even understand it. Like, he's so amazing. So he like a year and a half later, he's doing great. All of a sudden, I'm like, coming alive again. Like he's doing great. And you know, we just do MRIs every six months. And he's just we keep like living life. We're like saying yes, to all the things we're traveling, we're taking the kids on vacations, we're pulling them out of school and taking little mini trips. And I remember like, at one point, I think two separate times like Darren or Drew and Maddies. Teachers were like, What are you doing? They need to be in here in school. I'm like, Okay, well, we need to like create memories for our kids and actually live life like science and math can wait, we're going to focus on just having fun for a little
Sarah Milken 13:32
bit of that you have to because you never know. I mean, especially listen to you listening to your story and stories like yours. It's like, you don't know if it's your last day?
Jen Delvaux 13:41
No, no, none of us do. None of us do. So then it came back in 2019 was his last third brain surgery and he powered through it. He actually did fantastic again, it's like another one of those moments where I'm like, how is he going to survive this third brain surgery? And it's amazing how quickly they recover. Like you think like, you're having brain surgery like it's going to take months it doesn't you heal so quickly. He had some deficits like he's definitely struggles with short term memory issues. He struggles with confusion. But for the most it's like
Sarah Milken 14:18
midlife brain fog for us. Like, where did I park my car? Wait, what was I saying? Wait, why did I hear?
Jen Delvaux 14:26
Oh my god, the things that I find in places it's like I find the toaster in the fridge all the time. I found the ShakeOut or the shake. What is it the blender? The blender? The base, the base in the dishwasher? Oh, that's cool. Trickle cord and
Sarah Milken 14:43
everything.
Jen Delvaux 14:44
Yep. All right. Ron, nice to me.
Sarah Milken 14:47
I love it. And I think what's also interesting about your story is that Darren was a pharmacist so yeah, very sort of like Western you take medication, you get surgeries, you do medical treatment. And then there was like you was like a little bit more. Ooh, let's like tap into the eastern woowoo. Shed totally. You talk about how you did EMDR? I don't know what EMDR is considered, though it's a therapy. But is it Eastern and Western? Kind of?
Jen Delvaux 15:15
I would say yes to that. I'm not sure if it's one or the other. But it's definitely one that's important to do.
Sarah Milken 15:22
I know because you did EMDR after the stroke situation, yeah. As you were like, what the fox? So tell us what EMDR is, how it helped you and how it can help us.
Jen Delvaux 15:33
Yeah, I movement desensitization reprocessing. So basically, I had no idea what was happening to me. I was I was visiting my girlfriend who lives in California. And we were talking about this whole situation we were about, we were probably about a year out when Darren was getting better. But I was not looking at him. Like my husband, like a romantic relationship is is like a hospital patient. I had to teach him how to read and write again, we would walk on an Enel on an elevator and be like, Okay, what do you think we need to do now? He would have no idea. We'd be checking in for his appointments. And I'd be like, okay, because for a while there, I was doing everything for him. And I'm like, okay, come on. Now. We need to get you to figure this stuff out. So we'd go to his appointment, and I'm like, Okay, what do you think you have to do here? Like he was that basic. So imagine, all of a sudden, now he's doing better? And he's like, Hey, baby, like, right? You don't? I'm like, Oh, wow. Like, I'm not there at all. Not even a little bit. Wow. So I was talking with my girlfriend. I was staying with her and in California. And she's like, let me see if I can't get you into my friend. She does. EMDR therapy. I had never heard of it. I didn't even know what it was. And I went in there. And it changed me like it. The weird thing is, you know, I think normally it takes like more sessions than the one that I did. But she knew it was like an emergent situation. And we didn't have time. Chalene probably gave her the lowdown on me too. So, but we got into it. And I cried so hard. And I was always the type of person that was like, I'm good. I'm good. We're good at this. I'm strong. Don't you worry. We got this, I never cried. I held it all in. And when I sat with her, I was like, bawling. And all of a sudden, I could look back at that moment, where he was in that hospital bed, literally screaming for me to save his life, because he thought he was dying at one point. Because the pain was so bad. This one he was having a stroke. And like, those were the things that were just stuck in me or just like, all the things I saw. I mean, you would not believe all the things that I saw. It's just
Sarah Milken 17:50
so is there a talk component to it, or they're just sort of doing this rapid eye movement,
Jen Delvaux 17:56
there is a talk component to it. So she's talking you through, you go back to the memories, and she'll ask you what you're seeing, and you have to replay it. And there's different ways you can do the tapping, like you can do this, whether you're looking or you can have her finger. Yep. Or there's something where you can have like these clickers in your fingers and you just feel it like going pulsing back and forth. And it basically just makes you feel okay with it. Like it's not like I've forgotten any of those memories.
Sarah Milken 18:26
You can sort of in a good way dissociate from it. Totally. Yeah. For seeing and you could probably look at it's kind of like a movie. Oh, that was a really bad movie that I watched
Jen Delvaux 18:37
right. Terrible, nightmarish. Never once again, wow.
Sarah Milken 18:41
No, it's interesting, because I've thought about it. My dad was in the hospital a few years ago for like four months, and he like was almost dead. 500 times it was like, oh, and my mom was like 100% traumatized by it. And I think a lot of some of her health stuff and her fears and all of that, especially with COVID. It's like, it's retriggering all of that. Oh, I'm sure her you have to try EMDR I don't know that much about it. But we have to find someone who can do this. Because you're replaying all that same old shit. And he's fine. And you're not.
Jen Delvaux 19:16
Yeah, that oh my gosh, there's so much to that in our mind and how we keep thinking about things I just was saying the other day, most of the stuff that I put out on Instagram and social media, I'm also talking to myself, You know what I mean? Like I, I'm talking to myself, me? Yeah. So it's like literally something that I'm going through. And I'm like, somebody else needs to hear this too. And it's living in this mode of like, focused on what you're going through and you're living in this fear and you're constantly like searching and you see in the internet, you should be eating this and you shouldn't be doing that and you're like, holy shit, is this going to make my cancer comeback? Should I not be you know, you're freaking out and you got to just go on a detox of information. and like it
Sarah Milken 20:00
was just kind of a weird thing because it's like on one hand, you want to be like an information whore and just gather, gather and live in the rabbit hole. Yeah. Then like, on the other hand, you're like, wait, I need like a break from all this totally. And then there's that weird space of like, okay, I've gathered all this information, but I'm not doing any of it.
Jen Delvaux 20:22
Oh, yeah. See, I do I do it all. Like, I gather the information, I figure something out. And I do it
Sarah Milken 20:29
right. But like I said, you have some people on your platforms where it's like, we gather all this information, but like, why are we why can't we do it? Like, why can't we bridge the gap between knowing what that information is? That's good for us to do? Yeah, actually doing it like, every female, like midlife female knows they should be doing strength training, but actually doing it is a whole other ballgame.
Jen Delvaux 20:53
For some reason, I've never had issues with that. And I don't I'm so jealous. Really? I don't understand why I don't know why I don't have I have no like, what, okay, so when I was diagnosed, I changed everything. And so this is the interesting part about what I just said, Darren, my husband never changed a frickin thing. He's always eaten the same way. He's has the biggest Sweet Tooth of anybody I know. He loves this kind
Sarah Milken 21:21
of try to change that being a control freak. You weren't like, well, I can
Jen Delvaux 21:26
I cook. So I will. I mean, I don't cook, I eat healthy. If he's going to eat and he wants to eat what I'm eating, then he's going to eat a little bit healthier than he would by himself. But for the most part, like his lunch and his breakfast, it's just so different than what I do. And that's his choice. And what I tried in the beginning, and he's like, this is my deal. This is I'm going through this, and I'll do it my way. This is what I believe in. I don't believe that nutrition has anything to do with it, which this was years ago, which we know now it truly does. But he his belief is totally that medicine works. And you don't need to do anything else. And he just wakes up every single day happy. And I don't I wish and he doesn't worry. I
Sarah Milken 22:11
get it. My husband is the most compartmentalized brain on the planet. He's like, what's the next step? What's the next step? And I'm like, Okay, wait, we have a kid with like, 104 fever and like, you just think that he should be like resting in his fucking room. Like you don't think he needs a flu test or a COVID test, like what's happening with you? Because his version of it is like, Oh, you just rest and drink water and nap and you'll you know, eventually you'll be okay. And I'm like, But why wouldn't you want to take Tamiflu?
Jen Delvaux 22:41
Yeah. And he told all the vitamins into your body. Oh, I
Sarah Milken 22:44
No kidding. My son had tonsillitis and it would not go away. And it was like 10 days. He lost 10 pounds. He came to me and he was like, Mama, I'm like dying. Like I needed a hospital. And I'm like, Oh my god. The hospital was hospitals to me like a four. Wait. So I found someone who does like IV drips. Who comes to your house? I'm telling you, Jen. I know. Everyone thinks I'm like cuckoo Berry. My son did the IV he hadn't eaten in 10 days. And he ordered sugar fish sushi, and ate it? Yeah, like within a day. Like he was like a normal human. It's crazy.
Jen Delvaux 23:21
It's crazy. I completely dove and all that IV therapy was a big part of it. Drew drew does acupuncture with me like Yeah, so I do all the things. I do everything the things So Darren has always looked at cancer as a gift. So gift, it's a blessing and and I was diagnosed I was like, so pissed. And you know, I didn't want to be that. Me. I kind of did for a little bit. And I it was a hard one for me. But then I like picked myself up and I'm like, All right, you can have your little pity party and I allow myself a pity party like we all need to have like days where it's okay. If we don't want to get off the couch or we want to sit and watch Netflix all day have you have that day but then you got to get yourself out of it and start doing the shit. So for me be prior to that remember I was already in health and fitness. And people are like I don't understand how can this health coach get cancer like you're already healthy? And I look at what I was doing and what I was doing was more for the skinny jeans are skinny jeans even cool anymore in California. I don't know if they are they kind
Sarah Milken 24:28
of go in and out. It depends on the shoe you're wearing.
Jen Delvaux 24:33
But that's what I was in it for. So I was like not looking at almost I wasn't looking at the nutrition I was killing myself with a gym I was beating myself up literally lifting every single day. So I was in constant state of inflammation. I was consuming so much animal protein at every single meal. I wasn't eating fruit because Oh dear lord, there's sugar like saying insane and like I just wasn't eating the foods that I should So the second I was diagnosed, I almost didn't want to put anything into my body. I like was scared to eat anything. Almost like imagine. Yeah, it's like a dog. You know, when a dog is sick, they won't eat, they just want to fast like I just wanted to fast my body for a little bit. And I slowly just started eating vegetables and putting like plant based. I just was eating plant based, I went vegan. Occasionally I have wild caught fish when we're out. But that is what has worked for me. And again, it's not like we're all we're all made differently. By the way, this is what's worked for me and I am actually I've lost weight. You know, normally people, when they think like when they have cancer, they're going to lose weight. That's not the truth. Most women who go through breast cancer, they can tend to get gain weight because of all the meds and the drugs and the they're thrown into menopause. But I've lost weight, and I eat so much. You have no idea like my husband looks at my plate and he's like, you're gonna eat all that. I'm like, oh, yeah, hell yes, I am. Every single bite every single bite,
Sarah Milken 26:02
but it's because you're eating more vegetables. Right?
Jen Delvaux 26:05
So my, what I'm eating like fruit in red again. I mean, not like just white bread like good, you know spelt bread or zekiel bread. Like it's whole grain like you're giving yourself
Sarah Milken 26:14
permission to reincorporate all these things that you thought were going to make you fat before?
Jen Delvaux 26:20
Yes. Yeah, no. Um, yeah. And I think like, the other thing I focused on because we live in such a protein obsessed world. We're getting enough protein. It's typically we're missing fiber. Big time.
Sarah Milken 26:33
Yeah, the fiber one is like the $40 million question. And midlife. I mean, just from everything I read. And I hear it's like, how can you add fat and fiber to every single meal?
Jen Delvaux 26:44
Yeah, so what are you reading about it with with just midlife? I mean, I know for general
Sarah Milken 26:48
just think that the addition of fiber is like good for inflammation, it's C sheets, you you're not wanting to eat sugar all day, and it kind of like brings everything down. It keeps your like bowels moving, you know, eat the chia seeds, you know, all that.
Jen Delvaux 27:07
I eat him all I know, and it's so good for breast cancer, it just it like will help get rid of those toxins that helps lower that, you know, the will for me anyway, it was an estrogen driven breast cancer. So it helps with reducing that estrogen and getting it to move through you. So yeah, fiber is fantastic. And soy soy soy Have you heard about no.
Sarah Milken 27:28
And that's on my list to talk to you about because that is like such a mixed bag of research and bag of stuff. It's like eat soy, don't eat soy, soy gives you breast cancer, but you have a different thought on it.
Jen Delvaux 27:39
I really do. The research that I've done. And again, you can look at it and find research that says differently. But if you look at the date, typically it's the current research that's saying it's fine. It actually not just fine. It's actually beneficial and you should be eating more of it. Now I do it in moderation. I feel like everybody should just do it in moderation. And the soil quality matters. It has to be non GMO organic. You can't just like I do not get tofu when I'm out at a restaurant. I don't trust for that came that makes sense. But if I'm getting it, I know I'm cooking it I know that it came sourced properly, then I make it and I throw it in my salads. But it's it actually it has estrogen in it, but it's a phyto estrogen. That actually helps get rid of the bad estrogen in our bodies.
Sarah Milken 28:29
Now that makes sense. My daughter actually cooks and she'll buy the organic, extra firm, non GMO tofu, but it's I don't know, it's it's one of those weird things where you like, you want to make these changes, but you don't want to be an extremist either. Because it's like if you go out to a restaurant and you're like okay, well how do I know exactly if that's organic be for if that's really wild caught Sam and but like you said, like, at a certain point, like, you gotta just do the best you can
Jen Delvaux 28:59
totally when I'm out and with friends and family or whoever, like, I don't worry about it as much like I trials just say hey, I'm dairy free. I don't even say vegan because I'll usually get wild caught fish. But there is the one thing that I really would like not to have. It's all about joy and happiness and having fun. That's what life is about. It's not stressing about those little things. Like if you're sitting there stressing about what's in how your meal is cooked and what's in it. Like that's not fun. Just have fun. Don't worry about it
Sarah Milken 29:30
when you go to restaurants. Do you have the restaurants change the type of oil that the food's cooked in?
Jen Delvaux 29:34
No, but I heard that on the other podcast but Jennifer and I'm like, oh my like I actually was like because we go to this restaurant that like they know us and they know what I've gone through and so they always give me like a wild caught fish. There's no dairy and bunch of vegetables with no dairy. And I'm like shit, but I don't know how they're cooking that
Sarah Milken 29:55
yeah, no, I said I said on that podcast, like I went to lunch. and I was getting fish tacos. And I was like, Okay, I'm gonna be so fucking healthy. And I'm a clean fish. And instead of the guacamole that has weird things, I'm just getting sliced avocado. And then I thought, God, what kind of oil? Are they cooking the fish. And so he goes and checks and he comes back and he's like canola oil. Ah, I'm like, Am I that person right now? Can I let it go? And I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna ask, what's the worst thing that can happen? Look, I'm not at dinner with 26 people and being annoying. It's like I'm there with one friend or my husband? And he's like, yes, the the chef says he can use you know, olive oil.
Jen Delvaux 30:37
That's amazing. That's, I mean, I think that's fine. I absolutely think you can ask, and most restaurants will alter anything. But yeah, you have to sometimes just have fun and let it go. You know what I mean? It depends on how I mean, if you're eating out every single day, maybe that's important. But we go out to dinner, like, you know, once, once or twice a week. So yeah,
Sarah Milken 31:01
so you gotta like keep it within perspective. Okay, so yeah, I want to segue for a second. I know, we could get four episodes on this. But I know that this is something that's really important to you, you have tips for one friends or family get a diagnosis. And from your book, I see I wrote down the seven main tips. So you can either talk about it, or if you want me to just list them. And then you could talk about each one, whatever you
Jen Delvaux 31:24
like. I mean, what to say to a friend, like the first
Sarah Milken 31:28
one you wrote, you wrote, don't do heavy research, or you're gonna fall down the rabbit hole.
Jen Delvaux 31:34
Yes. Oh my gosh, like I put the blinders on. So when Darren was diagnosed, I basically think that I could perform brain surgery at this point. But I know that like, I didn't want to see at all, I did not want to research anything about something that I had to do, like, I had to get radiation, I didn't want to see the negative side effects of radiation, I wanted to look at how I could recover from radiation. I don't think you need to know it all. And I think that you can even like, kind of, well, we'll probably get into it. But you just have to protect yourself. Our minds are super powerful. And you don't need to know that this could potentially happen.
Sarah Milken 32:13
My mom, I mean, I hate to keep going back to her, but I adore my mother, but she'll be like, Oh, I got this medication for yada yada, it says that you could potentially be dizzy. I'm like, Mom, you could potentially be dizzy from like, you know, blowing your nose like, right? Not research on that level, or you're gonna put all of that shit into your head. Yes,
Jen Delvaux 32:34
exactly. Like so I'm on a hormone blocking Med, that has a lot of potential risks. I kind of know them, but not really. And I don't focus on that. So when I have to take that pill every night, I call it my miracle pill. I'm like, taking my miracle pill.
Sarah Milken 32:48
It's how you have weird side effects, then you'll address them,
Jen Delvaux 32:52
right? Listen, I've got side effects, but I don't know if there's anything you can do about it. Yeah.
Sarah Milken 32:59
It's always a give or take. Okay, so yeah, totally who you said if you tell your peeps on social media, that you have a cancer diagnosis or your husband or your friend like what are the parameters around social media? Like what have you found that really helps you or takes you down to your knees?
Jen Delvaux 33:16
Oh, my gosh, okay, so I immediately I have a, you know, kind of a big following on social media and I basically put it out there like, Listen, I don't want any negativity. I don't want any poor you. I don't want any sadness. I want you to be like, girlfriend. You got this. You're gonna kick ass. That's just my personality. And please, for the love. Don't tell me about your mom's sister, aunt, cousin friend, whoever that died from it. Sarah, I would get it all the time. All the time.
Sarah Milken 33:50
Oh, my God, my aunt and try this cancer. Die. Yeah. Oh, saying
Jen Delvaux 33:57
yes. I wanted the women and I would have oh my gosh, I had so many people reach out to me that gave me so much hope and encouragement. Like I put out there at one point where I was struggling with possibly going on this aromatase inhibitor. And this woman said, Hey, I just celebrated my 80th birthday, do whatever it takes. And I was like, she was diagnosed in her 50s I was like, okay, a game on. Like, sometimes that's exactly what you need to hear. But I know the other people are trying to relate. They're not trying to do it in a mean way. But it's just not good for that person.
Sarah Milken 34:28
And but what about people who have like recommendations, be careful
Jen Delvaux 34:32
with that, like, it depends on the person to be honest. So most people know that I'm an open book. I'm a researcher they know I dive into anything I'm going with go are going through so those people knew that they could send me maybe some information. Now I got so much of it, but don't tell me your oil will save my you know, like cure my breast cancer though. That's annoying, but like if people send me articles or ideas or what whatever like that was helpful. I just think that you have to know your person that you're talking to. Because you're super overwhelmed in the beginning. And I wouldn't send anything in the beginning, you're so overwhelmed by just what the doctors are saying and what you're about to do and just your whole headspace, like, you don't need to know any healing modalities, right? That I think but if you want to share something down the road, and you know your person, and you know that they will probably be interested in this then then cool.
Sarah Milken 35:27
And what about people asking about your prognosis? How long? My that's a favorite I do.
Jen Delvaux 35:33
That is the absolute worst. I'm like somebody said, so what's your prognosis? I'm like,
Sarah Milken 35:39
I'm gonna die tomorrow. Right? You're mine. What do you got? That is? That's
Jen Delvaux 35:42
what you're asking. And people don't understand that again. It's a thing and, and if you're listening right now, and you're like, shit, I've said that let it go. It's fine. We know those that have been diagnosed. No, you don't mean harm by that. But basically, what you're asking is, when are you going to die? They hope you're gonna say it's great. I'm gonna be here forever. No issues. Darren so funny. He's good. He's like, people ask me that. I'll be like, I've got 18 months to live.
Sarah Milken 36:09
He gives you the exact date.
Jen Delvaux 36:12
But then people are gonna be like, Oh, shit. Damn, sorry about that.
Sarah Milken 36:16
Didn't his stepmom die of the same brain cancer?
Jen Delvaux 36:20
My stepmom did? Oh, your stepmom? Yes. How crazy is that. So this is after Darren second surgery, that after his stroke. So in fact, Lesley, she was helped me when Baron was in the hospital for a whole month, she would stay there with them. We would alternate. She drove we moved to MD Anderson or to Houston for a while for his treatment. She and my dad and my dog Izzy, she drove them in my car to us, because it was like all of a sudden, we have to stay here. Because he had a seizure. Yeah, she was went through everything with us. And then all of a sudden, that it was like March or something. She was diagnosed with a glioblastoma and died nine months later.
Sarah Milken 37:03
Ah, but and you said like, almost to the day,
Jen Delvaux 37:06
totally. She said, when they told Darren you have 18 months to live 13 years ago, Darren said to the doctor, I'll never forget it. I can see the whole thing. He said, Well, that's not going to happen. So what do we need to do is like, I've got two young kids. And that's has been his mindset. He's like, not this is not going
Sarah Milken 37:25
to take me down explanation as to how and why he's still alive.
Jen Delvaux 37:29
How I think it's mindset. I think we'll wait, okay, wait, let me back up. Because there's a lot of people that have passed away from cancer that literally wanted to be here. So I never want to hurt anybody or like or say it's their fault, right? Like he is a miracle. I don't know what it is. I just know that he's also accepted death. So I do know that too, like he's not scared of dying. He has no fears. He has no worries. He's just like, when Leslie was diagnosed, and she said that when she found out it was a glioblastoma she knew was really bad. Because we already knew all the things about Darren, she was like, okay, when is this going to kill me? And he said, nine months and she basically died nine months to the day. Yeah, but with Darren Yeah, he's just like, he jokes around about his funeral. All the time. It's
Sarah Milken 38:20
his whole funeral plan the music. Oh, god. Yeah. In your book, it says it's gonna be black tie.
Jen Delvaux 38:25
Black Tie, invite only he wants, like, the weird talks he wants. It's so ridiculous. He wants a statue out in our front yard of him. So neighbors can still come over and like have happy hour.
Sarah Milken 38:40
On I get this whole episode. Is it going to be me laughing or moaning? Oh, my God. Back to it. Don't be like, Oh my god. Okay. Yeah. So then you talk about how everyone wants to help. Yeah, right. Everybody wants to be like, Oh, can I do this for you? Can I do that for you? And your opinion on it is what?
Jen Delvaux 39:00
Like how somebody can best support you. Okay, so how you can support a friend. I think the most important thing is just being there saying I love you. I'm here. I'm here to listen. And maybe not even. I think so many people think like they, you they need to come up with a solution for you or give you advice. So maybe just listening and telling them you love them and like still showing up? I think that the other way is you can offer or ask, Can I bring you food? I know for me personally and like my whole family and friends. They all know that. I'm gonna say no, like, I don't accept help. I'm just like, No, I'm good. I got this. I'm good. And so my friends they just knew. So I just had people just come and drop stuff off all the time flowers or gift cards or, you know, they knew I was strict with food and so they would bring over some healthy foods but you just just being there for somebody. And even especially Sarah the most important time as I think people think, okay, they finished chemo, they finished radiation, they rang that bell, and it's done for them. And that's truly when the hardest work begins. It's the you are all of a sudden blasted into this diagnosis, you don't even have time to think you're like, Okay, here's your diagnosis, there's a ton of testing, all of a sudden your treatment starts, you just have to go, you've got to like, just be strong, and you're trying to be strong for your family. And then all of a sudden, everybody just kind of goes on with their life. And you're like, holy shit, what just happened. And you're like living in fear. And you've got some PTSD of what, you know, some things have said to you, or possibilities. And you're then coping with, you know, a lot of times women are thrown into menopause. And then all of a sudden, you're dealing with those symptoms, and you have symptoms from so that's really the hardest part. So I think, truly, gosh, when your friend is in it, just be there for him. But afterwards be like, let's get lunch, let's do this, like, go do fun things like don't just think like, Oh, my God, they have cancer, and they're not the same again, or you know what I mean? Or I have to treat them differently. Like, just to get them out of their situation, because I think a lot of people deal with depression and PTSD.
Sarah Milken 41:14
And I also think that you mentioned somewhere that, even if you don't think your friends gonna come invite them anyway, let them be I see the other side of that, because it's like, you don't want to put the obligation onto someone and make that person who's already struggling. Say, Oh, I'm sorry, I can't come. But then at the same time, you're saying, Yeah, but that person wants to feel seen and heard.
Jen Delvaux 41:39
Yeah, just tell them that. Just say to them, Hey, I know you're in the middle of it right now. And you're not probably going to want to do this. But I want you to know that we would love to have you but no
Sarah Milken 41:49
COVID thing has added an incomplete. I mean, I don't even know what to say. Because now it's like everyone's questioning whether we should be together anyway. And then later in the cancer, and it's like, okay, what now? Am I living in a bubble? I mean, he's so hard.
Jen Delvaux 42:04
Well, that's not still going on there. Now, is it? I mean, I know COVID is out there. But really, it's
Sarah Milken 42:09
going up again over here.
Jen Delvaux 42:12
I am literally live in my lala land. I don't turn on the news.
Sarah Milken 42:17
But my kids just finished high school here. You know, so all the kids are still in masks like half senior class had COVID. Oh, see? We have no mas? No. Oh, yeah. See? No la there's still a little bit of that vibe going on?
Jen Delvaux 42:32
Oh, yeah. No, we haven't had that in a while. So no, but it but it does all of that. It's just it's just insane. Because one thing that's so important for somebody is to be surrounded by people and having fun. And like you said, it's COVID is like causing an issue with that.
Sarah Milken 42:47
I know. And it's just adding to the whole, like the fear train. Totally. And once you get into that, like fear train, it's really hard to get out of it. Yeah, yeah. I mean, oh my gosh. Okay, so let's talk about the things you change.
Jen Delvaux 43:01
I changed my nutrition, you know, I went plant based. I think if you're doing animal protein, you're fine. I just think that animal protein should be just like a little four ounces. Like it should not be most of us in the United States and America. The protein is the biggest part of the meal. And we just have little sides of vegetables. Protein should actually be just just the smallest and then it has but you don't want to
Sarah Milken 43:24
be honest. Like make why triples tastes good. Is a full of them. It's a fucking project.
Jen Delvaux 43:30
Oh my god. Do you want to know it takes me two seconds. Listen, I am not Jennifer. At all. Sure. Jennifer Fisher. Hi, Jennifer Visscher. She's like badass in the kitchen. I am so fucking basic. But I eat the best meals. I love everything I eat like everything. Okay, yes, I just roast everything on Sundays. And like Wednesdays or Thursday nights, I just roast a ton of vegetables and I throw them on a salad. Or like at dinner like I'll mushroom it over. So simple, because I'm not a really good cook. But just roasting a ton of vegetables and just throwing them on a salad. So the other thing is meditation is huge.
Sarah Milken 44:10
And listen, I'm so bad. I can't
Jen Delvaux 44:14
listen, I hear you. That was me. Prior to my diagnosis, like I freaking hated it. I would be like lalala done after like 30 seconds. I'm like, this sucks, sucks. I've got shit to do. The second I was diagnosed I needed something to call me and there are so many benefits to meditation. It's insane. And you just feel calmer. Like it literally brings down your cortisol especially us that are in menopause. Like we want to bring down our cortisol as much as possible and just manufacture oh my god, I know me too. So we've
Sarah Milken 44:46
made it mine and tested. My husband's this was like a few years ago and they were like, Sarah yours is like six times hits. And I'm like, okay, cool.
Jen Delvaux 44:56
You need meditation then it's so good. So if you get Don't just sit there and do it. I use the an app. Unplug
Sarah Milken 45:03
it. No, I love that. I didn't you know, I interviewed her. Oh, you did it all off shore. Oh, yeah.
Jen Delvaux 45:08
I need to listen. Hey,
Sarah Milken 45:10
I love you so great.
Jen Delvaux 45:10
She's so great. Her I love the platform. Everybody on there. They're so good. And they, they have like really cool ones. Two is called Sound bath meditations. We were if you put your headphones on and you hear Have you ever done that? Yeah,
Sarah Milken 45:24
I've heard it. Yes, insane sleep. And I also don't want to I don't want to sit up and I also don't want to lay down because then I fall asleep. So I'm like, really? Well, what am I going to do? Do you sit up or lay down?
Jen Delvaux 45:37
I decide depends. Got it. Every time is a little bit different. Typically I'm sitting up but I'll lay down sometimes they do a walking meditation. Like I just I do it all.
Sarah Milken 45:47
Every David G have you home? Ah, so good.
Jen Delvaux 45:51
I got you cut out for a minute. His Oh my voice Ah, yeah. Love it. So amazing. Yeah, see
Sarah Milken 45:59
a V i d. J I just love about unplug also is that it counts the number of dates. Yes. You're like, you're like, I'm so great. Like I've done 11 days. And then of course at the 11th day, I like skip one and then I'm like, Okay, next. I'm going back to it though.
Jen Delvaux 46:20
I Yeah. Isn't it funny when you skip one and you skip like a month? It's like, yeah,
Sarah Milken 46:25
that's like me and working out John like, yeah, okay, so I know, I know. I know. Meditation
Jen Delvaux 46:31
is really important. calming your brain water. Plant based is what I did just mostly fruits and vegetables. I did infrared sauna, which really helps. I mean, it's infrared sauna is so good for inflammation. It's so good for you. And I
Sarah Milken 46:47
tell you what, my one issue is with it. Yeah, is that I have really bad melasma you can't because I've mastered my makeup at this point. But they say that if I do that, and I heat myself up, that I'm going to create melasma for myself. Okay, well
Jen Delvaux 47:03
then don't do that. That's true or not true. It sort of makes sense. Yeah, I wouldn't do it then. If that's what they said. Then
Sarah Milken 47:11
I just don't have to do the cold plunge and I Oh, okay. So then you talk about journaling? Let's be honest, journaling sounds. I don't know it's orientation. It's like why like another fucking thing. Why now let me like how you made it more manageable and why we need it.
Jen Delvaux 47:28
Right. I started doing this years ago. So my morning is like everything to me. And I started doing this years ago just for my own head, my mental space. I would wake up before anybody else. And I would listen to something like 10 minutes on meditation like I love Abraham Hicks. I love Joe Dispenza Gabby Bernstein like I just just 10 minutes of like, really good headspace stuff. And before I would do anything else, I write I have this journal. It's a push journal. My girlfriend created the picture. No, but just on the back notes. It's just one page. And I just journal how I want my life to be That's it like just affirmations of like, where I want to be how I'm feeling and that's it. And so when I was diagnosed, it changed a little bit where I was almost like my cancer Chronicles like I I was consumed with fear at night like anybody that's been diagnosed knows you're like, for some reason, always in the middle of the night
Sarah Milken 48:30
nighttime for midlife when what the hell I don't even know what to say. Like I had like an almost out of body experience the other night because I like was like, my son's not home yet. It's one in the morning. We did he come home like it was like I didn't even know what I was thinking or doing. Then I tried to wake my husband. He's like snoring. He's not even listening to what I'm saying. And I'm like, It's Shay calm. He's like, Sarah, check the cameras. I'm like, I don't remember how to do that. Like, oh my time for me if I wake up other than to pee. I'm like a looney tune.
Jen Delvaux 49:01
Yeah, same. Same, but well, especially except that when you're diagnosed, you're just up with fear. Like that's different than that. So I woke up and I just started journaling, how I was feeling. And I would just start writing things. And it just it's so therapeutic. It's like this podcast. It's like a podcast. So what you do every day when you're on here, either talking or where you're when you're interviewing somebody. That's your therapy, right? Yeah. Isn't it therapeutic? So for people that don't have that space of somebody that they can talk to or lob, like, there's a lot of things that I don't want to share with Darren, it's not always easy within being married to somebody who has cancer. I mean, I have to but with him, it's just different. Like there's some things that you just need to get out of your head. And if it's something that I write that I really don't want to ever read, I rip it up afterwards. Yeah,
Sarah Milken 49:54
that's what I was gonna ask you. I always have these like Dear Diary, like, like things in my head where I'm like, someone's ever gonna find this is someone going to think that like, I hate them, or somebody's going to read this, then I'm like, should I get one with a lock on it? It's like your vibrator, it's locked, you put those things
Jen Delvaux 50:16
oh my god, that's so funny. I throw it away, like, I don't keep that shit. You know, there's people, some people who will be like, I want to go back and look at my diary. That's what I I throw that shit away. When I'm done every month, I get to do one well,
Sarah Milken 50:28
so you throw the whole journal away.
Jen Delvaux 50:33
If it's something that I specifically want to, like, I write it and I need to get out of my head because we have to get it out of our hat. Like if we just are pissed, and we just shove it down or we're scared or we're stuck in fear, or whatever that emotion is. And we're just like, and we stop it down. It gets stuck there. That is stuck energy, which then can come out in disease. That's why it's so important. You can get those emotions out. You can be pissed, you can cry, you can be angry, but you gotta gotta get it out. I mean, that's the most important thing. So that's what I will do, right and calling a friend. No, it's as long as you're getting it all out. And you're not holding things.
Sarah Milken 51:13
I guess some of the things that you're thinking about, or you're just like, God, is that like something? I really want to tell someone? Yeah. Or is that a personal?
Jen Delvaux 51:22
The other day? I will say with the energy healing? I didn't I worked hard
Sarah Milken 51:26
to hear about that. Because I always hear about energy healing. I don't know. 100% understand it.
Jen Delvaux 51:31
I don't either to be 100% transparent. I have an interview where I interviewed my energy healer, but all I know is that she does it has to do with your chakras and balancing your energy and we can get off but she knows stuff. I have no idea how she literally whatever I'm feeling she can pick up on it. And we talk through it. So the difference between you know, if you go to talk therapy, that you're there for like weeks before you're even here she was years before you didn't tell a single story like it's insane. Where they pick up on it so much faster. It's the same with tapping. I don't know they have some special gift, where they can pick up on what's going on. And she brings it out to me. And it's like Reiki, have you ever done the Reiki? I haven't but I've done tapping. Okay, so it's kind of the same sort of thing. All of that has to do with like balancing your chakra. And helping to let the stuck energy move through you is basically what it is. But I think it's like talk therapy on crack like you're getting, you're getting to the bottom of things.
Sarah Milken 52:35
And how often did you do the energy healing? Oh, do you stop after you kind of got better?
Jen Delvaux 52:40
No, no, I got she's like my main girl. Now it's monthly. Like I there was at one point where spring break was in the way and and we were traveling, and it was like six weeks. And I'm like, Oh, my God stare I need you. Her name is Sarah two. But yeah, it's everything you
Sarah Milken 52:54
like, virtually or it has to be in person? Well,
Jen Delvaux 52:57
I bet you can. I've done tapping virtually. And I was shocked. I was like, Is this really gonna work? You know, it was just one of those things that I was trying anything. Just to see, it's like a share with people. And it worked. Like I was so shocked. That was another one that between the tapping the EMDR and energy healing. It's so fast how they get to the bottom of things, and how much they can get out of you. It's weird, because they can just feel things, it
Sarah Milken 53:26
is so interesting, because it's like you don't even know what's placebo and what's not. But at a certain point, it doesn't matter. Because it doesn't matter a piece, it doesn't
Jen Delvaux 53:36
matter. You know, and the other thing is, is it's like bringing you peace, but I would talk to her about things. So prior to my diagnosis, and I always have to say I always feel like I like I was an alcoholic before I wasn't I promise. I was never an alcoholic. But Darren and I, we love red wine, we'd love to have a glass of wine, red wine with dinner, or we'd go out and share a bottle or we'd be out with friends. Like I'm like not at the clubs like party. But we just love to have a glass of wine. And that's taken from you. Like all of a sudden, if you look at the research, of drinking and breast cancer, there's some correlation to that. And you have to be really careful with with the meds you're on. I didn't know who I was, because that's who I was prior to that. I was the one who would entertain, we'd have people over we'd have happy hour like I love to do that. And when that's just something that you enjoy doing is like something where you shouldn't do it anymore. You're trying to figure out who you are. And I was talking to her about it like Sarah, I don't know what to do with this. And she's like, Jen, listen, she's like a viewer meeting your friends out for a cocktail or happy hour or whatever. And you're sitting there and you're not having a cocktail because you're consumed with fear. That is not good. Right? It's that's not good. She's like, What if you're sitting there and you're laughing and you're enjoying your friends and you're having a glass of wine, like that's what life is about. And so she would tell me those things that it just It helped me get through the those silly little things that, you know we deal with when you're diagnosed at life isn't just it's not as easy.
Sarah Milken 55:08
So how did you sort of make it okay for yourself? Were you like, Okay, I'm gonna have two glasses of red wine a week, like, how did you sort of, I don't know, rationalize it.
Jen Delvaux 55:17
Yeah, I, when I want a glass of wine, I have a glass of wine, and I have peace with it. So the thing about it, and what I've noticed with some people is that they will have a glass of wine or two, and they have fear at night. So if you are up at night with fear, because you drank, then you probably should not be drinking, because just the fear alone is just not good. Whatever you choose, and maybe it's not a glass of wine, maybe it's that piece of cake, then eat the frickin cake, if that makes you happy. But you can't have fear tied to it. You have to believe in whatever you're doing. And I believe that when I'm enjoying a glass of wine with my friends, that makes me happy, and I'm having fun. And that's what is good for us.
Sarah Milken 55:52
We're here, you don't think people are judging you like, oh,
Jen Delvaux 55:56
no, we're here to enjoy life and learn. And I think that's why we're on this earth. And if we're sitting there consumed with fear, what's the point?
Sarah Milken 56:05
Like, you know, I agree, but I love what you said about the identity piece of all this, because, you know, this whole podcast is about midlife self reinvention. But you like sort of had it forced on you orderly and you weren't like, Oh, I'm itchy. For something new. I want to rebrand my kids or going off to college, like you had it handed to you like, this is going to force an identity shift. You're no longer who you used to be. There are certain elements, and you're shedding some of that, and you're growing into this other person. And who will that be?
Jen Delvaux 56:42
Yeah, that's a great question. I was actually with a friend out at the country club that we belong to. And she's like, when, where have you been? You know, like, Where have you been? And I'm like, Listen, I'm like, this whole thing has been like a mind fuck, like, truly like it has it when you are stripped from that you need to figure out who you are again. And I think people like they don't want a diagnosis or midlife to change them. But it does. And so you need to just kind of go with it. So Darren and I do different things. I walk now Darren and I golf like we're doing Pickleball
Sarah Milken 57:20
for the first time. Yeah, like we're doing different
Jen Delvaux 57:23
things that aren't, that isn't like alcohols involved all the time. Like we're just doing fun things. We're like planning our mid life. Like when Drew takes off. We're like, holy shit, we're gonna be empty nesters, what are we going to do? So we're searching places in Florida, like, we're just going to have fun in this next part of our life, like while like losing some of the fear. But you do, you've got to figure out some different things.
Sarah Milken 57:47
Did you find that like, you had to find things for you and your husband to do together? Because like, I'll be honest, like, my husband, and I don't have a lot of commonalities in terms of our interests. So sometimes I'm like, okay, like, I'll go hiking with the dog or whatever. Because we don't have those common things like I don't golf, I don't play tennis. And like, he's so good. And I'm so bad. And I'm like, that's not gonna be fun. So I'm like, really trying to find a few things that we can actually do together.
Jen Delvaux 58:18
Yeah, no, I agree. I know, Darren and I are very different. He's the one that got me into golf. Like, I hate it. He makes me go. And every time we go, we have so much fun. So I just keep going. But yeah, I definitely think things together great. But you also have to do things on your own. We are together. 24/7. So I like to be separated from him at times.
Sarah Milken 58:38
I knew the fuck out of this house. Yeah.
Jen Delvaux 58:40
Oh, my God. And I'll tell him get out of here. Like go do something. Yeah, because he's, he's like, you know, you wouldn't know it if you met him. But, you know, on a daily basis, like I'm like, Darren, what are you doing yours? It'll take him like an hour and a half to unload the dishwasher because he stares at like a bowl for five minutes before we can figure out where it goes.
Sarah Milken 59:08
But at least he's trying.
Jen Delvaux 59:09
Oh my god. He's trying and he's so funny. And he laughs He's hysterical. So yeah,
Sarah Milken 59:14
gosh. Okay, what are your green tea extravaganza?
Jen Delvaux 59:18
What about it? How much? i
Sarah Milken 59:20
Yeah, like why we need it what it does, Donna?
Jen Delvaux 59:25
Yeah, green tea. There is a book. It's great. It's fantastic. It's called cancer hates tea. And I read all this research that literally green tea I think one day will be part of the breast cancer treatment plan. I really do like, it has all the poly phenols and the antioxidants and the catechins and ECT like
Sarah Milken 59:47
eg big ass words, and there's a lot of them too.
Jen Delvaux 59:50
I know just all you need to know is that it's really good for you. And you should be drinking it and especially anybody that's listening that was diagnosed It's so good for breast cancer.
Sarah Milken 1:00:02
I think there's you had some quote that it was like, I think it's 56%. Is that it? Yeah, lower incidences of relapse. It's like recurrence he but there's a few like caveats you said, yeah. So you have to drink five cups, three to five cups,
Jen Delvaux 1:00:17
three to five cups, which I aim for three every day. And the tea matters. Like, you can't just go get some Lipton tea at the store. You've got to get like good quality tea, like just the tea bags alone, if they're not sourced properly can have toxins in them. So I love peak tea.
Sarah Milken 1:00:36
Have you ever heard of Yeah, yeah. So that's the flavor.
Jen Delvaux 1:00:40
Yes. Same. So
Sarah Milken 1:00:41
that like little baggies of crystals.
Jen Delvaux 1:00:43
Yes. Yes, I love that. Or loose leaf tea is really good. But loose leaf tea. It's like that there's a whole thing involved. Like, you've gotta like steep it and it's got to sit there for like, that's a whole thing. But with with the tea crystals, you don't even want the water to boil. So you just want to heat the water up, and then just pour it in there. So just quicker. Did you know that? No, yeah. And just
Sarah Milken 1:01:06
say, there you the caffeine question came up, but you sort of answered that in the book.
Jen Delvaux 1:01:14
Yep, you definitely want to make sure that you have the green tea with caffeine because if they do decaf, they're stripping away all those really healthy antioxidants that you really need. So you want to have it with
Sarah Milken 1:01:25
with does it ever make you feel like if I have a cup of coffee in the morning, and like in my mind, I'm like, Okay, if I drink three cups of green tea, am I going to be like buzzy?
Jen Delvaux 1:01:36
No, it's like half the amount of caffeine and coffeehouse, and I never get iced or now. Yeah, totally. Yep. You can although, I mean, it's a whole nother thing to go there. It's like not great to eat foods that are really cold. Like you shouldn't have ice water.
Sarah Milken 1:01:56
Yeah, I drink room temperature water. Yes. My whole house hates it. And I don't worry. I don't know what to say to you. So they so we have like, you know, 15 glass bottles and half of them are room temp and half of them are in the fridge.
Jen Delvaux 1:02:09
Yes. Yeah. Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep, that's it. I do too.
Sarah Milken 1:02:12
Okay, and exercise. I fucking hate it. You love it? What do you know? I don't say that exercise is your magic pill. We all want a magic pill for everything. And you say that exercise is the magic pill. It is. Sweaty, have to fucking wash your hair and makes your crotch sweaty. You have to shower. It's so many things. Jan
Jen Delvaux 1:02:33
is that is? Listen. I know. It's a lot of things that I was so pissed one day because sometimes I don't want to fucking take a shower. And I just live in my sweat for a while because that's easier and it just drives on me
Sarah Milken 1:02:44
my Instagram. I do like a core area read sometimes. Oh, no. The core areas you kind of do the waist down. Oh, fast.
Jen Delvaux 1:02:53
Okay, okay. Okay. I'll look at that. Yeah. Because that's what somebody said is that if you sweat out all those toxins, and then they just sit there, they get absorbed right back in. I'm like, fuck, okay, fine.
Sarah Milken 1:03:04
And then you're wearing the spandex pants. And then you have Sue and a whole swamp. That's like a thing. Your husband's gonna love this episode. By the way. I really don't know. I husband's already traumatized me. So he's like, Oh, go do it.
Jen Delvaux 1:03:17
Oh, I tell Darren everything. He's like, do I have to know that? I'm like, Yes, you do. Yes. And absolutely things
Sarah Milken 1:03:22
that like other women tell me not their names, but I'll be like, Oh, someone messaged me and they got like their labia trimmed or something. And he's like, that's information that I just really didn't need.
Jen Delvaux 1:03:34
Hey, listen, you don't even need to worry about that. If you just go into menopause and vagina atrophies. You're all good, dude. It's insane.
Sarah Milken 1:03:44
A cot all smile and like tight,
Jen Delvaux 1:03:47
small and tight. I have no idea if anything can even fit in there. You because I don't need tampons. I mean, it's insane. Yeah. Wow. Interesting. We can go there. Yeah, we're
Sarah Milken 1:04:03
going there. It's on my list. Don't fucking worry. Okay. So tell me what you do for exercise.
Jen Delvaux 1:04:08
Okay, so I do three days of lifting. And I used to do every day but three days of lifting. It doesn't take long it takes 20 or 30 minutes I focused on
Sarah Milken 1:04:17
a specific routine. Do you do it with a trainer? How does it work?
Jen Delvaux 1:04:21
I mean, sometimes I follow a program sometimes I'm just doing my own thing, but I've always done Beachbody workouts so there's like a new program feel. What's it called Fire and flow and it's it's a great workout but so I what my schedule typically is lifting upper body on Mondays Tuesdays is cardio Wednesday, lower body Thursday cardio Friday is full body and Saturday is cardio but when I'm saying this now listen. I know that seems like extreme.
Sarah Milken 1:04:49
Yeah, I have so many bells going off in my head right now. I could scream but yeah,
Jen Delvaux 1:04:53
but it's like easy. It's like 20 minutes upper body. Biceps, triceps takes 20 minutes. And then you know, I will hop on either my Trailhead or I'll go outside and walk. I do try to get in 10,000 steps every day I break that up into, you know, different walks throughout the day. And the cardio is
Sarah Milken 1:05:10
like steps is not easy. By the way.
Jen Delvaux 1:05:13
i It's a lot, right when you start tracking. I know the set that
Sarah Milken 1:05:16
number is like, kind of a made up number, really, by I mean, I don't know that for a fact. But they see that there was some kind of like, maybe not health component to that it was something really, but I don't know that I've just think the stupid stuff that I've read. But what's good about it is it gives you a goal and it gives you a marker. So yeah, like like my friend has this little thing that she clips on her bra. I can't remember what it's called. It's like sort of like a Fitbit. I guess. Okay, I couldn't even wear an Apple watch because I can't fucking see like, why would I? I can't even read my phone. How would I read an Apple Watch, like watch, but you clip it onto your brawn and like counts your steps for the day? Yeah, okay.
Jen Delvaux 1:05:59
Okay. I don't have that. I don't track anything. I mean, when I was I have like a little tracker on my phone, but you have to be holding your phone. So I just would kind of so you're kind of guessing. Yeah, like if you walk a mile it's approximately 2000 steps. That's a lot of miles jam. I know. I know. So but I do try. My cardio is like Like Forrest
Sarah Milken 1:06:19
Gump. Where's Jen? Oh, she's on the highway. There's Jen. She's in Minnesota.
Jen Delvaux 1:06:30
Oh, good. But my cardio is are fun. They're like hit cardio. Like I you know, it's either like I hit I love hit runs, where I'm outside walking and running. So I listen to music I'll put on like a really fun playlist. And I'll just one song I'll walk one song I'll run one song. You know, like, or I will sing and
Sarah Milken 1:06:48
I don't get along. You don't really yourself. I'm just kidding. I don't I don't. I don't either. But like, I have to pee when I run and running. It's like so like, boom, boom, boom.
Jen Delvaux 1:06:59
Yeah, I don't listen. I never and I do not think that long distance running is good. Like people are like dude, marathon with me. I'm like, Oh, hell no. First of
Sarah Milken 1:07:07
all, as long distance for me, John. Yeah.
Jen Delvaux 1:07:11
So you really have you never like to exercise?
Sarah Milken 1:07:13
No, look, I've done it. Most of my life. Like if I go on vacation for two weeks, I'm not missing it. Okay, I'm now I see people who has the runner's high. I don't get high off that,
Jen Delvaux 1:07:24
Chet, that really I do. You can ask Darren, if I haven't gotten my workout in. I'm kind of a bitch. Like I
Sarah Milken 1:07:32
really trapped fucking hamster trapped.
Jen Delvaux 1:07:35
And he doesn't even want me around. If I haven't worked out to stay. Yeah. So I am like, I go down. And I'm not really a fun, nice person. And then I come up. I'm like, What's up? What are we doing today? Like, is saying, Yeah, so I have to, like, get that
Sarah Milken 1:07:51
in his workout routine? None that nothing. So are you sometimes like, Wait, why am I doing all this shit? And you're not
Jen Delvaux 1:08:01
to hold? Totally. Ah, I am like, I want to be him because he does nothing. And here he is his walking miracle. And I'm like, Oh, the health not that. I'm like, fuck, I hope it's not going to come back and
Sarah Milken 1:08:14
was so annoying. I was like prepping for this podcast this morning. And he was like, already, like in the gym jumping rope. And I was like, I hate you. You're so annoying. Like, I'm like already, like showered and like put my clothes on. I'm like, Oh, can I create a swampy mess at 4pm? Or do I Okay, so
Jen Delvaux 1:08:35
how often? How often do you work out? And when you work out? What do you do?
Sarah Milken 1:08:38
Okay, so I do Pilates twice a week. But like I was schedules, it's like, Pilates teacher. It's like, you know, she's my age too. So she's like, at a town for three weeks. And I'm not like, oh, yeah, let me on the Pilates Reformer and do this myself. I like don't even know how to get the springs on right.
Jen Delvaux 1:08:57
I haven't done the reformer. I want to do that though. I've heard it's great.
Sarah Milken 1:09:00
It's so good. It's so good. It's if you're like a quick exercise person, though. You might get a little frustrated. Okay, it's a little slow. Like when you're first learning how to do it. You're gonna be like, this isn't doing anything but I'll say that the one thing that changed my body the most this we're talking decades ago Now currently, is Pilates because it
Jen Delvaux 1:09:23
gives you a waist. Okay, I need to do that. Then. I definitely leave after
Sarah Milken 1:09:28
saying it was like all the weights and all that stuff just didn't change my waist. Yeah, Pilates is so specific. Almost annoyingly specific. Yeah, it's like mental gymnastics and physical gymnastics, but it does do the sort of waist taper in.
Jen Delvaux 1:09:46
Okay, I'm gonna do it. I'm going to try that out for sure. And
Sarah Milken 1:09:49
you have to stick with it because the results take forever to see. And then my husband has a trainer and like, I don't know, I have to be honest. Like I'll see him once a week twice a week if it's like I'm having a really amazing week, but it's not that often. And I try to walk on the treadmill because then I have the air conditioning on and off deal with my hair because I'm not a sweater. And I started this whole thing with a weighted vest because of my husband. Oh, yeah, spin wears the 20 pound weighted vest, and I got an eight pound one. And I know I always talk about this now, but it's kind of like a two for one special because there's a weight bearing component to the walk. Yeah, yeah. And because I had my bone density checked a couple years ago when I had my mammogram and he's like, and I'm like, What are you talking about? I'm doing Pilates. I'm doing this. He's like, Sarah, it's not unique. Like even my Pilates teacher has bone like everyone has. Not everyone but many women in our age group do have bone density loss it's a fucking fact. Yeah,
Jen Delvaux 1:10:51
it is. It really is. So I want to get that weighted best to so you'll have to send me the link for that I'd
Sarah Milken 1:10:58
be great for humidity you're really love that oh my god boob sweat rings running down but it's good it's like it's like a $29 Amazon purchase that is so amazing.
Jen Delvaux 1:11:10
But I will say I will say this one more thing is that at our age you should not be killing yourself in the gym. Like you just shouldn't like when I mean I'm truly saying my workouts are 2030 minutes super easy I sit down there meditate like it's chill it's so different than what I what I used to do so different more moving more yoga type exercises to just being mindful because if we are constantly lifting and doing these intense workouts our body our bodies are constantly inflamed so I do you have to do like more I
Sarah Milken 1:11:42
think it makes you more hungry god yeah like so many will lift days for sure inning and then they're like want to eat the whole house. Yeah, I want to eat the whole house and I didn't spin but yeah. Okay, let's talk about sexy midlife sexy. Okay, yeah, saying your book cancer isn't sexy. No fucking midlife isn't sexy either. Yeah, make it sexy. And the purpose of this podcast is like making midlife sexy. Again, like there's a lot of unsexy things that are happening. Our vaginas are drying up. Like I mean the list could go on for five years so five less interest in sags, you know. So you have this quote, where is it? I'm trying to find it. It says, this is post cancer. Expect you feel uncomfortable in your new body and feeling betrayed by your body. Our breasts tried to kill us so it doesn't feel sexy anymore. less interested in sex try or atrophied vagina that makes sex painful. And then say being the caretaker to your spouse kinda has killed the mood kills it. Now that sounds like really hot. Stewed.
Jen Delvaux 1:12:52
I know, right? Oh my god. Well, so like, I think we already kind of touched on that with Darren like when I was like, basically, his caretaker like we I needed the EMDR therapy. That's how I overcame that. And then when I was diagnosed, I think the most important thing is number one being open and honest. Like we have to be open with our partner like I was like, I have zero, desire, zero, none, zero, zilch. Gone. Like, you know, I did he, he went after year, when he was ready. He was ready. Yeah, he was all in he. Listen, guys will just I'm fine. It's but for us, it's
Sarah Milken 1:13:32
a whole mental thing. It is. It's mental gymnastics.
Jen Delvaux 1:13:35
Yeah. And when you are like dealing with a diagnosis, you're like, oh, and
Sarah Milken 1:13:39
then you have like one you were saying like you had one boob that looked different from the other while Yeah, and you're like, I can't even get my shit together. Why are you touching? You're looking at me.
Jen Delvaux 1:13:47
Right? Totally well, so we had to have that open discussion. I talked with my doctor. So finding a really good doctor is important and being open with them. I think so many women are like fearful, like, Thank God, I have this doctor who she's like a sex therapist and like, loves to talk about it amazing and gave me all the ways in fact, I'm running that I was running that not same menopause group. And I was trying to figure out topic on libido and marriage in sac or in midlife. And that's when I found you. You were interviewing Dr. What's your name?
Sarah Milken 1:14:21
Ronnie? Yeah, amazing. Amazing. She's so good.
Jen Delvaux 1:14:25
So good. And I loved hearing her when she because she dealt with the diagnosis and she a lot and a lot of ways this Yeah, yeah. And she was talking a lot about like with breast cancer because when you have a hormone positive breast cancer, you can't take the HRT which helps with a lot of these symptoms, or a lot of women like they just don't they want to go the natural way to like but shit if I could, if I could be on that stuff I would
Sarah Milken 1:14:49
in your situation. I know it there's like a mixed bag but like some people are willing to use vaginal estrogen and others aren't. Where are you in that?
Jen Delvaux 1:14:58
I'm almost there. Okay, So, so as has my vagina atrophies more and more,
Sarah Milken 1:15:05
as it turns into a real race.
Jen Delvaux 1:15:08
I'm like, oh, maybe we shouldn't go there. So at my last oncologist or yeah, when I was with my oncologist last just a month ago, I brought it up to her. And I thought she was going to say no. And she said, Listen, we won't prescribe it for you. There's no guarantee. But we do think exactly what your friend was saying that the doctor you interviewed, that it's such a small percentage that it doesn't even get into the bloodstream. And it just stays there and will help with the other things. Because, you know, you're dealing with dryness, tightness, pain, and bladder issues, like so many things that go along with it if you can't take that vaginal estrogen. So when I met with her, I found out these all there are ways there are things that you can do that can help with that. But Darren, and I also had to have like, really intimate conversations about it and be honest, and then you just have to truly fake it. You just have to do it. It's like almost like, for some reason, and I don't know what it is. It's just like, getting there. Right and just getting into once you're there, it's fine. But it's just like getting into that act. I know. Not easy.
Sarah Milken 1:16:17
Yeah. Because your whole day is like pulling your shit together. And then you're like, okay, yeah, let me get right to this when I can, like watch Netflix or pick my nose. Okay, but it says you talk about lubricants. There's one that you
Jen Delvaux 1:16:31
Yes. So I put from rosebud. It's honor balm. It's a really good natural one that lubricates it that I put on morning and night. And then for for sex, it's called womb or play, which it's like a coat coconut for her that one. Yeah, it's organic and like healthy and it's kind of the website's a little bit like, Do you
Sarah Milken 1:16:52
are you so you're having issues like all of us have, like the actual drive, but the actual physical nature of it totally broke. You're like, I mean, honestly, a few weeks ago, I was like, I'm burning. I'm on fire. I'm burning, like, oh, and then I got the prescription for the estrogen cream. I haven't did I haven't opened it yet. Because it's like so many directions. It's like, use a dab of this every third day. And then I was like, Okay, this is like too many things right now. So I haven't started.
Jen Delvaux 1:17:23
Okay, well, I'm curious. I mean, I feel like I should keep telling me how it is because I am really curious if it's helpful. And I just don't know, if I want to yet I just find that
Sarah Milken 1:17:32
every single every single person I've talked to says it helps. So let's talk about, like mindset for a second. Like, is this a fucking punishment? Like, is God punishing me? Like, how does my husband have brain cancer? And I have breast cancer? Like, How is that fair?
Jen Delvaux 1:17:51
Yeah. Oh, my God. I've been pissed so many days. So many times, like, like, I mean, not so many days. I shouldn't say that. I'm happy 90% of them, but I am pissed. 10% of them. And I dare noses it's kind of weird. It's like when you go into menopause. This is what I've noticed is that, you know, we used to have PMS, or I don't know if you're there yet. But I used to have PMS prior to my periods, and you have like a crabby day or two. And I feel like I almost still go through that cycle where I have a day where I'm just like, I'm in a funk. Like, I'm not good
Sarah Milken 1:18:24
Sunday. Really? Yeah. husband's like, wait, you are fine. Yesterday. What's wrong with you? Well, how do you just snap? Yeah, like, I don't know. But you have to give me a minute. Yeah,
Jen Delvaux 1:18:35
yeah. So Darren, will it he'll say to me, honey, but remember, this is a gift. I'm like, No, it's fucking not. I'm pissed. I don't want to have this. I don't want to deal with it. So I definitely have those moments. But I also have so many blessings that have come from it. Like, I don't know, it's just such a weird thing. If I could say, could I have it or not? I'd rather not right here. And if you ask during that same question, it's like, no,
Sarah Milken 1:19:00
I want it. But it's crazy. And why are you here?
Jen Delvaux 1:19:04
I don't know. I have no idea. He's like a different. I have no idea. He's unbelievable.
Sarah Milken 1:19:11
But do you think he just appreciates his life more now that he knows how fragile
Jen Delvaux 1:19:16
life is? Yes. And I think that happens that does teach us hundreds of people. It does. You figure out your life a little bit more. And like for me, what I'm doing now with my life. I love way more like I wake up every day excited to talk with other women about what they're going through. Like I love being a light for other women to help them get through it. Show them that they can. So there are parts of it that I love, but there's you know, there's days where I'm pissed. And I'm pissed. Shit, life happens. Like, you know, you look at the news today and you're like, Okay,
Sarah Milken 1:19:53
two for one special you're like, Oh, right. Oh,
Jen Delvaux 1:19:57
and I think more so it pisses me off to for my kids. It's, you know what I mean? I'm like shit, like my daughter Maddie is out in California. But she calls us every single day and drew lives with us every single day. And it was so funny. I was talking to him about my parents. And I was like, yeah, like, I'm like, I think it was actually another parents family. And I'm like, I'm so lucky that my mom and dad, you know, they're in their mid 70s. And they're both doing really well. And he's like, yeah, here I am. A high school. And I have to like gear for my finger. I'm like, Oh, my God, I'm so sorry.
Sarah Milken 1:20:32
God, that is so many. Oh, and then the pandemic? Oh, my God, all the things. Oh, my God. That's like, so crazy. I can't even talk about it. But yeah, okay. So you also mentioned in your book in some podcasts that this whole like journey of you and Darren led to some like very meaningful marriage conversations that you probably wouldn't have had? Yeah. Tell us about that. And tell us how we can sort of be inspired to have those conversations, even if we're not dealing with the same things and why
Jen Delvaux 1:21:06
Yeah, Darren, and I will say this all the time that it is so important to have this conversation because none of us knows what's going to happen. And Darren and I this night, it was an unexpected night, he was finishing a round of chemo, and I had just was making dinner and I poured a glass of wine and I put some music on. And he came down and he poured a glass and I was like, shocked. I wasn't expecting it. You know, this is right after we got his last diagnosis, which went to the grade four. So we knew it was like, we were thinking at the time that this grade four was going to act more like a glioblastoma. So we thought, you know, maybe he had like a year and a half left. So everything was just a little bit more emotional at that time. And but he would still want to be talking about his funeral and joke around about it. And like Darren, you know, like, in we were listening to this song, the song Kimani, he's like, Hey, Jen, I want to have this, this song at my funeral. And I'm like, laughed it off. And like, Ha, you know, like, whatever. And he's like, No, Jen, like, I really want to talk to you about this. And I was like, Really, and it was just like, this night, where we talked about everything, like what he wanted, at his funeral, like, truly, like not just joking what he wanted, but like, truly, like, what I was going to do what he wanted for me, what do you wanted for our kids. And then we started talking about meat, like we had this conversation of what is our life look like if something happens to the other person, and which normally you would never have, because we all think we're just going to be here forever. But that's not the case. And we put that all out there on one of our podcasts A while ago, was a couple years ago. And the feedback I got was like, so grateful in somewhere like I'm so sad, because I never had that conversation. By the time I wanted to have the conversation, it was too late. So having that conversation is is important. As hard as it is. It's a good one to have. Because I now know what he wants. He know, you know what I mean? Like, I know what he wants for me. Like, there's no question about anything, what
Sarah Milken 1:23:11
would be like your main things that you would hit? That we were talking about? Yeah. Like if you were recommending having this conversation to like a friend with her spouse, like, what would be like the main topics you think a person should cover?
Jen Delvaux 1:23:27
Basically, it's so weird to talk about your funeral. Right? And I'm trying to think like, if I if this conversation would have happened for us if we weren't dealing with a diagnosis, but talking about like, I guess what you would want your funeral to be like, what what does that day look like for you? What do you want getting remarried? Like Darren already had, like a guy planned out for me?
Sarah Milken 1:23:49
Oh, my God,
Jen Delvaux 1:23:51
I'm not even kidding. I was like, Dude, no, like, I'm like, do not tell anybody this, like saying that. You're okay, what do you reckon I came up with, like, I can't remember now. But like, at that moment, we were coming up with like, signs how to communicate with each other. Like, like, give me signs. Like if I'm doing this right with Drew or whatever, like it was, it was crazy.
Sarah Milken 1:24:11
But I think what's beautiful about that, too, is that like, whether there's a diagnosis or not like there is an element of that of like bringing you closer.
Jen Delvaux 1:24:20
Totally. It totally did. And there was tears. There was laughter It was like we drank probably too much wine. We just kept listening to music. It was just such a special night that neither one of us will ever forget ever.
Sarah Milken 1:24:35
Like it was back to revisit that conversation or now. Yeah,
Jen Delvaux 1:24:39
we talked about it all the time. But weirdly, not ever about me. Still about him. Like I can't go there. Huh? Him and I are so different. This is probably why he's doing so well. Like he's just like goes with the flow like he just doesn't have worry. He just like if this is my time. I this is my time where I'm like, oh, no, like, I've got kids, I've got to do things like, Do you know what I mean? So
Sarah Milken 1:25:06
I know that I feel like that would make me a little mad to what? Like just like even my husband is so even keeled. It's almost it's an irritating like, all Yeah, try to pick a fight with him. And he'll literally leave the room. And I'm like, Yeah, that's not helpful. I need you to engage. I need you to have this conversation. I don't know, I think sometimes like to go with the flow you're like, but wait, you don't have any fear? Like, I need some empathy. Like, I need to know that you're feeling the same scared that I'm feeling like? Yeah, like,
Jen Delvaux 1:25:39
I sometimes think that he is a little bit, but I think he also is trying to be strong. Yeah, as well. I do believe he doesn't worry. Like, he's pretty good about stuff like that. But I do think the back of his mind, like, you know, that's not gonna be easy. Not. That's how I feel, too. So but I just think like, sometimes I interviewed a husband who lost his wife, and she was trying to be strong. So I think it's somebody who's really sick and maybe has that, you know, there's no cure for Darren. Like, for me, my cancer can go away and be gone forever. For Darren, it's going to come back at some point, we just don't know when. So how does it stand with you? I mean, people will use the word I'm in remission. I hate that word. And but what is cancer free mean? It just means that I don't have any cancer in my body, or any like, I mean, we all have cancer cells, like there's no like, I don't have anything in my body. So that's just kind of what I go with. It's what makes me feel good, right? It's how I get through it. But yeah, remission to me just means like, it's going
Sarah Milken 1:26:39
to come back at some Yeah, no, I totally get what you're saying. Yeah.
Jen Delvaux 1:26:43
So I think I'm healed or I'm cancer free is just makes me feel better.
Sarah Milken 1:26:48
And he doesn't have that.
Jen Delvaux 1:26:50
Never. I mean, that's what they say. He's so lucky.
Sarah Milken 1:26:55
I know. It doesn't even make sense.
Jen Delvaux 1:26:57
It really doesn't. It truly doesn't like if you look at when he went to a grade three in 2011, like the life expectancy of that is three to five years. I mean, he's just like, he's just a miracle. So Darren, and I have a lot of fun. We literally laugh every day. We're silly. We don't take life seriously. I mean, we do at times like that conversation. There's times that we do but there's times that we just are like having fun and listening to music, like getting outside like we just are silly and laugh all the time. And you do a podcast
Sarah Milken 1:27:30
together. I'm convinced my husband to come by on my podcast. He's like, I don't think so. But I'll listen to it. He listens to all of them. Really. I just don't know if I can be on it. Sarah, like,
Jen Delvaux 1:27:42
Oh, yeah. Darren, that's therapy. That's therapy for us to like, truly, like, like, we'll be in, like annoyed with each other. And we do a podcast together and we are feeling better already. It's like just therapy for us. Yeah. Which I have connection. Yeah. Which I think especially for anybody that's gone through diagnosis, especially if you've taken on a role of a caretaker, you guys should be in therapy, like therapy is huge that we needed it, our roles reversed, everything changed, we would not have gotten through it. Without that, for sure. And dating, like we love kind
Sarah Milken 1:28:17
of therapist that like specializes in this
Jen Delvaux 1:28:21
there usually is like you can look, you know, to figure out if they have dealt with somebody with cancer. But I do think that's an important one. That was huge for us dating, we go on date nights every single week, where it's just Darren and I and we have fun and I mean, you know, during COVID times we we have date nights in all the time to where we get dressed up have date night like we I think like taking care of yourself. That's the other thing. When we're in this midlife where we're like, Who the fuck are we? What are we even supposed to be doing here? Like you might be going through mood swings like I am, you're not feeling your same self. Just take care of yourself. Get up, get ready, do your hair, put on some makeup or whatever that makes you happy. And because I feel like I know for me if I'm if it's a day where I'm like living in my sweatpants, and leggings, I don't do a lot but when I get up and get ready and take care of myself, I'm having a better day Darren and I might go live with you more. Yeah, we go out like maybe and have a lunch that we weren't expecting or whatever. But just to just do those small things that just bring you a little bit of joy when you're going through this crazy midlife situation. I
Sarah Milken 1:29:28
got revamp your vagina put on your makeup. I mean, I talked about this all the time. Like I would put makeup on during COVID Yes. And my friends would FaceTime me they're like why are you wearing fucking makeup? If I don't go with all my lashes? Yeah, I'm like, Well, I'm sorry, but I have to walk by myself. It didn't see myself in the mirror. And I want to feel like I'm like remotely put together with my makeup on with my cool sweats. Yay. Yeah, that's what's happening here.
Jen Delvaux 1:29:55
Right, right. Totally. I
Sarah Milken 1:29:57
love it. So okay, so at The end of the day. What would you say your midlife lessons are from this crazy ass journey that you're on?
Jen Delvaux 1:30:08
Oh my gosh, I've learned so much. I think like, just like being you your authentic self, quit trying to people, please. I think for so many years I was trying to people please everybody and like doing all the things that you should and you're kind of like you hit this midlife and you're like, Fuck, I'm just doing this for me. I'm doing the things that make me happy. And do the things that scare you like step out of your comfort zone, do something different, like Life can be so monotonous. And we get stuck in this like, every day doing the same things and surround yourself around people that will like bring you out of that like, message your girlfriend, a couple different girlfriends make some plans do some fun things. I think it's just like, doing the things like having fun.
Sarah Milken 1:30:58
Yeah, I love how you talk about like dating your husband again. I mean, obvious eating situation where you were like, oh my god, I was like his caretaker. But even if you didn't do that, it's like yeah, so easy to get in that like sweatpants and dinner routine.
Jen Delvaux 1:31:12
Oh my god. Totally. And Darren and I like Dana it's our favorite night and our my son knows to he like all good with us going and loves it like he's like bye. Yeah, see ya. Bye. Oh my god. I could do a whole nother episode with you on parenting. Ah,
Sarah Milken 1:31:30
yeah, that's such. I'm in it, are you?
Jen Delvaux 1:31:36
Well, I'm out of the hard stuff. Now. That was there was my daughter was the not easy one. We sent her away in the middle of the night to a wilderness program. I'll leave it there. Oh,
Sarah Milken 1:31:48
God now
Jen Delvaux 1:31:49
She's great. She thanks us every day for that. But that was insane. But so yeah, sorry, I got off on that sidetrack. Yeah, just like live your life. Not none of us know what's going to happen. Right? Like stop obsessing about all the things that we should or shouldn't be doing. If it brings you joy. Just go fucking do it. And don't worry a glass of wine. Yes. Drink the glass of wine. Have the glass of champagne. Go have fun. Like who the fuck cares. That's how I feel sometimes. And I think you have those moments. Yeah. Be like Darren, there should be a shirt that says that.
Sarah Milken 1:32:27
new tagline?
Jen Delvaux 1:32:29
Oh my god. Yes. His nickname is Mr. Worldwide. Yeah. That he looks like pipl like exactly like people. They will stop these Gucci sunglasses. And you know his bald head and he's shorter and people will literally stop him and ask him if he's pipl. And he wears the craziest T shirts that say like, you can find me or read about me on TMZ like he is a he was the funniest T shirts ever like
Sarah Milken 1:32:59
this before the cancer thing? Yeah. Okay, so it wasn't like the cancer thing came and he like took on like a different persona.
Jen Delvaux 1:33:07
It really never changed him. He really literally other than maybe he became just like, more carefree. He loves me. And that's what's amazing. That is what's amazing. He supports everything I do. He lifts me up. He's encourages me every step of the way. And yeah, he's that's exactly and he's a fantastic dad.
Sarah Milken 1:33:26
Yeah. Good person. Good ass. Yeah. So if listeners want to find you, where can they find you, Jen?
Jen Delvaux 1:33:32
My Instagram is Jen Delvaux. JNDLV au x and then our podcast is not today cancer or my website is Jen delvaux.com
Sarah Milken 1:33:41
So good. You guys have to see her real sto she's really mastering the rails over there. Okay, love a it's so cute. I want to thank Jen for sharing her story, her inspiration and tips for rebounding from two cancer diagnosis and in her family and giving us kind of the pep in our step and real tools for the midlife remix. Thanks for being on the flexible neurotic podcast. It was so fun to have you here.
Jen Delvaux 1:34:09
Thanks so much for having me, Sarah. So fun. So fun.
Sarah Milken 1:34:17
Hey, peeps, it's me again. I listened to this episode with podcaster author, health and fitness coach and cancer thriver Jen Delvaux, so I could summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listen to a long episode, I'm like, oh my god, I love that. But then I can't even fucking remember the specifics. This is why I come back and do a golden nugget summary. In this episode we discuss taking cancer by the horns learning and growing from it. Golden Nugget number one, there was more than just medicine. Of course Jen and her husband Darren have had the necessary treatments for their diagnoses. But she explains that it's just not enough. You can't rely just on Western medicine to make you feel better. When Jen was diagnosed with breast cancer, she decided to make some serious changes in her life to help the healing process not just for her body, but for her mind as well. She started doing simple everyday things like eating healthier exercising, meditation, and journaling. All of these things are time consuming, but so worth it. She says it's worth the investment. Jen also ventured off into therapy EMDR, and a form of energy healing, known as tapping from talking to other women diagnosed with cancer and her own experience. Practicing other forms of healing along with treatment has shown a major difference as opposed to just relying on Western medicine alone, Golden Nugget number two, open communication is key with family members and your spouse. Jen explains if you or a loved one is diagnosed with cancer, then you need to have a clearer understanding with each other. There might be certain topics that someone with cancer doesn't want to discuss. Even if you think what you're saying is helpful. Someone with cancer also doesn't want to be treated differently just because of their diagnosis. You can still invite them out to an event, but just understand that they're not always going to be able to come. There are also some serious conversations that need to be had. What are the types of treatment? How critical is the diagnosis? Do we need to plan for the worst case scenario? What does life look like if something happens to the other person? Jen says these necessary conversations with spouses has been very helpful for her she and Darren had a very meaningful conversation about the potential end of life. Jen knows there are not easy questions to ask but necessary. She explains it after going through these questions with her husband, that she now knows what he wants. And if something were to happen, then there are no questions left unanswered. It's a hard conversation to have, she says but it's a good one, because it helps lift some of that weight off your shoulders. As a person with cancer. You need to express to your loved ones, what you need from them, whether it's a helping hand from a family member or friend, or if it's related to changing your physical relationship with your spouse. You don't want any unneeded stress during this difficult time. Golden Nugget. Number three, fear is its own form of cancer. Cancer, of course, is scary and a difficult time for anyone. But Gen explains that you can't be taken over by your fear. It should not be the driving force in the decisions you make in your everyday life. You have to enjoy the little things in life and focus on what brings you happiness. Jen says we're here to enjoy life and learn and I think that's why we're on this earth. And if we're sitting around here consumed with fear, what's the point? You can't be afraid of what might happen in the future, you have to enjoy the present. Golden Nugget number four, it's all about the mindset. Jen explains that when you're diagnosed with cancer, you have to change your mindset. You can't think why is this happening to me? Or why am I being punished? Of course you're going to think those things, but they can't be your general mindset. Instead, you have to try to ask yourself questions like, What can I do with this? What's my learning in this? When Jen was diagnosed, she changed her mindset from survive to thrive. Jen shared that having cancer there are things that change you but you have to learn and grow from them. Jen's husband Darren even sees his diagnosis as a blessing. Jen doesn't view her experience in the same light, but she explains that she is grateful for the life she's living now as a result of her cancer experience. She says it's a more meaningful one. The gold is dripping off these nuggets, grab it, use it, there are three things you can do. First, please subscribe to the podcast. Second, share it with some friends who might like midlife shit. And third, write in Apple review. reading reviews is really annoying. It's an extra step. But guess what? It really helps the podcast grow.
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