Episode 22 transcript

00:46

Yes, for sure. Just so you feel comfortable. Yeah, the podcast thing. I'm like, okay, I've done like 23 episodes. We're good with that. Amazing. I know, it's crazy. But it's so good. It's so good. I'm so happy you're here. So I have this like awkward moment at the beginning where I either have to choose to record by myself a bio for you, or I have the awkward moment of like reading it to your face. So I always choose the awkward moment of reading it to your face. Great. So you have to just bear with like, the weirdness of that is not weird, because that's what happens if you speak on a panel. That's what happened. I know but I'm like I don't I don't go to the trouble of memorizing it. Because I'm like, we're gonna edit this out anyway, who cares? So

01:31

but also you shouldn't be memorizing it because, I mean, why would you bank all that information about me? You have to keep mine free for all

01:38

ages free because we have to like talk about the pimple on my nose. There's so many things you have to talk about. Okay, so here we go. Let me We are recording. I have QuickTime going. We have our matching outfits on we're going to talk about that. Okay, here we go. Hi, good peeps. This is the next episode of the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic. Today I have a very cool guest. She's quite the skincare guru and rage, especially in Los Angeles, New York City and the Hamptons, where you can find her brick and mortar stores, skincare boutiques, she says that she's Wait, I'm gonna do that again. She's quite the skincare guru and rage, especially in Los Angeles, New York City and the Hamptons, where you can find her brick and mortar skincare boutiques. She says, This is my favorite. At the age when you start getting comfortable in your own skin. It starts to sag. And she and her team are here to help. Her name is Kylie cavaco RAC, and she is the founder and owner of knockout beauty. Kylie can be found all over Forbes magazine right now for her new big project that we are going to talk about. knockout is a philosophy, not just a retailer, she says, Hi, Kylie. Hi, Sarah. I'm so excited to have you here. And I just have to tell everyone, they're gonna be able to see this on the YouTube clip but weren't fully matching outfits fully. I mean, he's like, we planned it. I know you've ever met. I know the gold hoop earrings. We have the white earbuds and then the white eyelid spring shirt. I mean, it's almost like we planned the whole thing.

03:22

I think that just goes to say that like we're part of the same tribe,

03:26

totally the flexible neurotics because I know you're neurotic, too. As I've read, you're an Indian nation seeker of all I have a little bit more of an intro for you. So I'm gonna say that Kylie cavaco rack, as I said is the skincare founder of knockout beauty after turning 40 and feeling like she had something something to share with the world after turning 40 and feeling like she had something to share with the world after taking time off to raise her kids. After being a brand strategist and so much more Kylie dove deep into her natural talents. She started an Instagram called knockout at 40 Is that right? It's called knocking on 40 and knocking on 40 that was it, where she documented her own skincare routine. This Instagram account ultimately metamorphosized into a huge skincare beauty brand with brick and mortar stores. Kylie has a strong passion for helping women look and feel like their best selves and Kylie beuter we need your help. We're like in the midlife REMAX. Everything is happening and we have so many questions for you. I'm here to answer them. I'm so excited. Wait till you see my laundry list. It's coming. My intentions for this episode as it is for all my episodes of the flexible neurotic is for us to find the sweet spot between neurotic and chill. We're going to discuss how your childhood and background preps you for your giant skincare entrepreneurial vision. We're going to talk About facing the second half of life with curiosity, what could happen if you start with a small idea, and you let it grow just like you did, and what your first business look like and what it is now. And finally, we're going to talk about your golden nuggets of how we can try to recreate ourselves in the second half of life. In her case, it was just starting with a small idea and a new Instagram account with zero followers, and all of her next steps that led her to building a skincare Empire to help others achieve skincare radiance. And of course, I'm going to dig deep with you for the top tips for taking care of the midlife skin. Are you ready? I'm ready. I'm so excited. You have your golden shovel? I do. Okay, so we all know that our childhood and formative years play a huge part in the paths in our lives, we either embrace it or run for the hills. And I know you have an amazing background, can you tell us a little bit about it? Sure.

06:01

I grew up in fashion. I was born in the late 70s in New York City. So fashion was really sexy at that time, right? It was like the thing to do, just like in the in LA, you've got Hollywood in New York, you have fashion. And in the 70s. You know what my both my parents worked at Vogue. And they went off and ended up starting their own company. So as a young child, I grew up really with them, starting their business on set with them. My dad is a stylist. And my mom, they did fashion show production. So back, you know, backstage at fashion shows with my mom. A lot of my formative years were spent really in the fashion world that I think a lot of people now sort of think back is like the glory days, right? So we're talking about the late 70s all the way through the 90s.

07:00

Now, did you see all I mean, it obviously sounds like such a glamorous and awesome childhood of being able to experience all this Did you see sort of the pros and the cons of it sort of like how we here in Los Angeles see the pros and cons of the Hollywood lifestyle?

07:17

It's a very interesting question. I think that it's when I think about the fashion industry and all the sort of negative things that go along with it, or what we see, right? Because you also have like the body image stuff. Exactly. I think what you see is that when it's your childhood, and your parents are protective of your childhood, as we are protective of our children's childhood, I think there's a lot of things that may happen that you're not aware of, or you don't really see, right. So my parents, my mom and my dad

07:53

were

07:56

for the most part, you know, they're very sort of straight laced people. So they were not it wasn't a wild party. That's not the life that we had, right? We had more of the creativity part where it was. They would work late a lot they would have, you know, we would they would travel a lot. We would have incredible experiences, whether they with a variety of different types of people, but it wasn't, it didn't feel seedy or gritty when I watch movies that are about that time period or those time periods, the 70s 80s 90s. There's a grittiness that you see that I didn't see.

08:32

So you had more of the professionalized version of it.

08:36

Correct.

08:37

So did you have the least privileges of having your parents? Well, it's not even a privilege if you're a teenager, and your parents are commenting on your clothes, obviously, if your parents or your dad's a stylist, like God, did you have access to like cool clothes or things that other people didn't have? Or they kind of kept you out of that? For sure.

08:58

I mean, I was at that age, I was sample size, which was great. I was able to borrow clothes to go to events and do things which was wonderful. and exciting during that time period. You know, I was backstage with the major supermodels that everyone knows today and on set with them and traveling with them. So the access or they are the behind the scenes that I had was also at the very top of the industry. So I think that's the other thing, that's when people are working at that level. You can't have that much grit and that much sort of negative stuff. It's usually when the career starts, starts to go south that that happens, but that was the height of my parents career. So it wasn't really what I was involved in.

09:44

No, I see that. It's funny because my grandmother, it was born in Yugoslavia and she came on a boat to Ellis Island when she was two. She never finished high school and she ended up becoming the president of Gucci. When people hear that they're like, what? Like, how is that even possible? Story, right, isn't it? And it's like, it doesn't even make sense. And it's funny because I would get like, I forgot the first child sample of a Gucci bag. And at the time, I had no idea, like how relevant that would become, I just, I would go visit her New York City and like the corporate offices, and it was like, fabulous and fantastic, but I didn't understand it at the time. You know, yeah. Back on it, and I'm like, Damn, that's like, amazing. And I go through my mom's closet, and she has like, all these old vintage Gucci bags. And I remember, like, there was a time where we were like, giving away our Gucci luggage, because it like had no relevance at all. And now we look back on that. And we're like, how did we do that? Why did we do that? But it's interesting how I mean, I'm not in, in the fashion industry. But it's interesting how, just like, even in your lineage, it's like, fashion is important to me, clothes are important to me. I love it. And sometimes I'm one I wonder I'm like, is that because of my grandmother? I mean, she used to like cut out magazine, outfit outfits and paste them into a spiral notebook. So she would have like, it was like Pinterest. Yeah, that was a vision board. That was like, totally her vision board. So I think it's so interesting how sometimes we like, take things from our own history or childhood, and then they come out later. So like, now I'm doing my creative expression with this podcast and my Instagram.

11:35

I think when you think about it that way, right? It's, it's what you know, and I think I was always with them. I was their constant companion, I was an only child. So you know, all I knew. I thought everybody's parents were like that. I mean, not really. But yes, you know, you notice that you sort of know about it retrospectively. Also, when it's happening, I think about this a lot when I think about music, like when people must have listened to like the Beatles for the very first time. Like, did they know it was going to be a hit? My feeling is probably yes, they probably knew that they were onto something. You, you definitely knew that like the pictures they were making when my dad had you know, Linda vendula used to flying over the Meatpacking District. Amazing that that was gonna be a picture that people were going to remember and look at for a long time. Or it's actually not his picture. But there's a picture of my dad and Amber valetta walking through Times Square, but it's actually a Tony Goodman picture. But he's in the picture. And so can you see that though you're like, and that's all over Instagram now are all over Pinterest, and you knew when it was happening, right? We're gonna see this picture for a long time. But I also had always grown up with them making amazing pictures. So I didn't really realize anything was any different retrospectively, I now see that it was obviously a different thing.

12:51

Yeah, it was like me giving away Gucci luggage. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, had no relevance at the time. And now I'm like, Oh, my God, I could have had like an entire collection. But we won't talk about that. But I also think what's interesting about it, is you can take tiny little things or like tiny little snapshots in your mind and not think that they're going to be big. And then they become so huge. Like, even for you. Tell us like you had this idea. You took it to Instagram. And now you have this huge company. Can you tell us I'm obsessed with talking about how we can all as individuals, especially in the midlife process, you were 40 when you started this project, how you can take this tiny idea and not judge yourself and just go for it and not have expectations and have it become almost larger than life.

13:42

So well, thank you for that. I started actually when I was 38. And I plan to live a very long life. So I feel like I'm at the tail end of the first half. I'm not I don't even feel like I'm in the second half yet. But I do feel like I if life is you know, if we have plans A and B, I'm probably on plan p by now. Like I've had so many lives. So I don't necessarily feel like you know, this could happen, I think at at any stage in one's life.

14:12

I agree. I don't think it's just age. I think it is like where you are in your life. And just whenever you feel itchy for the next thing.

14:22

True. But I do think that there's something that happens to women in particular, when, particularly if they become moms, I think that there's this idea of you sort of Park yourself for a minute before you can and you get everybody sorted. It's like you're putting, you know, it's the reverse of putting your own oxygen mask on. You get everyone else sorted and then you make, you know, make your way and so I think that I think what's interesting is that whether you have children or not, there's this stage in life where you suddenly become comfortable with who you are, and you feel ready to take chances that maybe you wouldn't have taken before and you feel less of the concern if what of whether you're going to be judged or not. Now, I think judgment is one of those funny things where it's like, what you put out comes back toward you generally. But there are people that for whatever reason will always be judged, no matter how non judgmental they are, and how non judgmental, they show up in the space. And I feel like for a lot of women who are smart, or attractive, or have, have really done something with their lives, they're being judged all the time anyway. And to pretend that they're not isn't. I don't think that's doing any justice to anybody. It's like, let's be honest about what's really happening. And so I think a lot of women get to a place where they sort of feel like, Okay, I'm just gonna do it, I'm just gonna go for it, I'm just going to make, I'm going to move to that place. So I'm going to start that business or I'm going to, you know, make that jump, whatever that is. And I think it doesn't necessarily mean that they have to park themselves for a time period or been a mom for a time period. But I think it could have been the career that they were,

16:08

yeah, it's just living almost in seasons. Exactly. Yeah. And some people can do the career with the kids and all of it at the same time. But for me, as I've talked about on this podcast, before a million times, is I didn't plan on doing it in seasons, I planned on being a full time career, person and being a mom, but it didn't work out that way. And so now I feel like I am living seasonally as I look back on it, because I'm like, okay, I was a mom for 16 years. And now my kids are older, and now I'm picking and doing the next thing. But it doesn't mean I'm not a mom anymore, it doesn't mean I lose that identity, it just means I'm sort of morphing into the next thing, while maintaining my old identity at the same time. So it's exciting, but it's scary. And I think the scary part is the part that limits a lot of us,

17:02

for sure. And of course, it's like, well, on one hand, the longer that you've done the first thing, the more mastery you have of that in order to feel comfortable, kind of focusing on something else and knowing that that's going to be okay, if you are able to split that attention. But the other side of that is, the longer you are away from it, the harder that it is to jump back in, the scarier it is to take that chance. And so I hadn't really taken a break to be a mom, I was a mom alongside consulting and alongside doing other things. So when I decided to do this, it was a natural evolution, it didn't feel as scary. And I think that my advice to my younger self, would be to, and maybe to my children, or maybe to always keep doors open, right to always, and that a body in motion stays in motion. So

17:56

I agree with that,

17:58

to, to stay in, to stay curious always to stay sort of connected to people and things you love. And to not let that go. I mean, how many times have we met people that are doing no people that meet somebody, and they have lost themselves in that other person. And they have a very hard time when that relationship doesn't work out. It's the same sort of thing, right? It's like, we want to make sure that we don't lose ourselves in life that we continue to so

18:29

easy to be a wife or a mom and to lose yourself in that process. And I remember when I was interviewing Yves Brodsky, she said like part one of the elements of her book was, you have to remember who you are, and stay interesting. But it's not stay interesting, because you're going to be judged by anyone else. It's stay interesting for yourself. So you stay invested in yourself and being connected in the world and having an identity. And I just love that so much.

19:02

Now, I think it's great advice. My dad used to always say, you know, in order to be interesting, you need to be interested totally. And I think it's very easy to become solely interested in being a wife or being a mom, because they're very all encompassing. It's also, it's also very easy to be the person who is only interested in their job too. And they have nothing else to talk about.

19:26

I sometimes worry that I fall into that category. No, I'm sure you don't. But I think we all ebb and flow. And obviously, like when I started this podcast this year, and my kids were home, which I wasn't accustomed to, because of COVID You know, there was a weird period where they were like, wait, why are you responding to my text? I'm like, just because I'm in the house, doesn't mean I'm gonna respond to every four seconds, but that was really hard for them. That sort of change an identity of like, wait, my mom used to respond within 14 seconds. And now she's taking two hours. What's happening there, like Did I lose my sort of place in here as a kid? So it's been an interesting sort of shift in dynamics in my house for sure.

20:08

I think I grew up with my mom had a very, you know, she was her career was very important to me. And so I think that I wanted to make sure that even when I wasn't working, even as a younger person, my children were young, I used to always say, two minutes, two minutes, and my daughter always laughed about that now. And she was like, I now know, you were conditioning me. Because it was, I saw so many parents just jumping at whatever the request was. And I thought, well, that's not really gonna leave any room for anybody else in life, they need to learn for themselves to be you know, so we always joke, two minutes or 20, like, let's be honest here, or two hours.

20:53

My kids are used to that yours, like, sometimes I'll be, I'm like, I'm almost pulling into the garage. And then they see me on the camera in the driveway, in my car on the phone. I'm like, if I get out of this car, I have to end this call. And I just need to finish this one last thing. You know, it's kind of funny. But in terms of starting your Instagram account, will you tell us about that, like how you just took this small little step and how it sort of unraveled.

21:22

So I was out to prove a point when I started it, which is maybe not the best reason to start something. But at the time, I was doing a lot of consulting. And when you consult, it's very hard when people only partially take your advice.

21:36

So you are a brand strategist, just to give everyone context and you are consulting with brands on shaping their brand identities

21:44

correct. And also on at that point in time, right? They're not so much their social media presence, because that's not I don't have an expertise in that, but just their voice. And that an authentic voice is what people respond to. And so I would give people advice, and they would take it personally. And I thought, Okay, this is a total bore. So I decided to do it to prove a point, which was that if you do something with authenticity, and you aim to build a community, you often can't. And so that was my goal was really to build community and to be authentic in my sort of knocking on 40 journey. So at that stage, I told her 38 and it came from the idea when someone say, oh, like, he's great skin, you look, you know, look great, let's say not so bad for knocking on 40. So it became an expression, I would say all the time, and then

22:44

I'm going to be knocking on 50 I guess, because I'm 46 and a half. So let's see, no, you're not knocking on. You're not knocking on 50. I'll let you know when we're there. Okay, cool. Cuz I'll be like, signed up in your office every day. But yes,

22:56

it's that moment when you know that the door to where you were, is closing rapidly, and there's another door opening. It's, and it's simultaneously very frightening, because it's like, what are you going to make of this next chapter, but also making sure that you live to the chapter before to its fullest? Yes. I think that's how you know you're knocking on whatever age it is.

23:25

And so you started this Instagram, I started this Instagram, you have zero followers just like me.

23:31

Actually, what's really funny is and I laugh about this often. At first, it was like, I had no followers. I got 100 followers. The first day I started, I think it's because I like let it like, Look into my contacts or something. I think it was that wasn't like anyone that I was doing. And then what happened was, I had very few followers. You know, I'd like 100 followers

23:58

about Kylie like, so you just put a quote up, like what did you out and then I put

24:03

a quote up first, and then I put up that quote that you said earlier about being comfortable in your skin and it begins to sag? Yes, so that was my first quote. And then I would put up like random things. It was just like I was living my life. Like I didn't really I wasn't editing myself. I wasn't like, it was just like, oh,

24:22

you play started as a business. You start sort of like a bulletin board or you know, like, Hey, this is what Kylie's thinking today this odd even, wasn't even that good. wasn't even that well. But see, what I love about that is I think a lot of us get self limited in the sense of like, Oh, we don't have this all planned out. We don't have the business idea we don't have it all

24:44

figured out was not a business. And nor did I think I was going to start a new business, which is really funny. I thought I was going to like, talk to people. I just thought like, I felt like I needed another channel to talk to people and to connect to people but also remember I was doing it sort To prove a point, so I was just like, How quickly can I gather followers? How quickly can I connect to people? How quickly can I talk to people that I don't know, you're

25:07

sort of proving like a self branding point, like I can create a community, I can create a voice out of thin air, by being by being authentically you.

25:17

Well, or what I and what I was really trying to prove to my, to the brands that I was working with is that you in this day and age, you have to have an authentic brand voice, whatever that looks like, and that people respond to authentic voice no matter what it is. And so without that a brand in, you know, 2015 wasn't going to work out if they didn't decide to put an authentic voice behind it. So very quickly, it ended up with 1000 followers, which was more people than I had in my address book. I

25:52

know, isn't that funny? When I got to 1000 followers after like, two months, or whatever it was, I was like, I don't even know 1000 people, but I don't even know if I knew 150 people, you know what I mean? At that time, too. It's so weird.

26:06

So that was when I was like, Oh, this is insane. And then the quotes, as you were saying, people were responding to them, and they would sort of resonate with them. And they would DM me and say things like, you know, I'd love to meet you. I thought like, you want to meet me? What would we do? We were talking about my quote, like, I'm not that interesting. We're cool, right?

26:26

And were you posting about skincare at that time?

26:29

A little bit? Yes. Okay, cuz I did have an interest in it. So there was definitely a beauty bend to it. So I was definitely attracting people that liked beauty. Which I didn't also realize at first, that wasn't my intention, but it was just what I liked. And what I felt like was the gateway to conversation with women to, I felt like, you could always get a woman talking if you started talking about your skincare routine, or like this beauty secret you had. So I was like, Oh, this is kind of a cool way to connect with people. And

26:58

would you say it's sort of like finding like, whatever your passion is, like, how did you know what your passion was? I did, you did, I did.

27:09

I was just doing I was just a number because it was about authentic voice. So it was only about talking about what I was interested in and what it was like to be my age. So the brand is the brand now is not me, right. But it started, when it started, it was people talking about what it was like to be my age. And that and, and the shared experience of being my age, that's really what it started like. And then once it once it began. And once it as I told you, people were dming me and saying I'd like to meet you. And it was like, it wasn't two people or three people or five people, it was like 75 people, 100 people, which I recognize is not a lot of people and nothing to build a business on. But at the time, it was like, this is very strange. And I realized at that stage, by that point, I had realized there's a major beauty component in what I'm doing by that point. And I was always the person that my friends would ask, you know, about beauty and I had my own skincare journey. So it was naturally coming out because it was my own issue. Right. So I was, I was just sharing. Um, so that happened. And then really what struck me at once at some stage, and I guess at this point, we're probably nine months into this Instagram, it's not that many. And at that point, I probably had, like 4000 followers maybe was that I. So they were sort of separate initially, which is also really funny. This two ideas, although they were one, but it when I explained it, your mail will make sense. So I realized as I was talking about beauty all the time that I was going to go spend my summer in the Hamptons, and there's nowhere to get the kind of beauty that I cared about. There was no where to get effective. And beauty that had that had a conscious thought behind it right that it was something that was a little bit more about toxic load or a little bit more not necessarily organic or green, although that was also rising at that time. So I think we got swept up in that a little bit at the beginning. But what I realized was that this community of people, also was local to me. So I was like I could, I could have a little shop and these people could come visit me, my friend.

29:34

You have like Instagram coffee shop.

29:36

Yes, that's exactly what it was. And by the way, that was what the first summer was. It was people coming in and meeting me that I had talked to on Instagram. So you just

29:47

so you had the Instagram you created a small following. And like you have a brick and mortar store like a month later. Like how does that work? Um,

29:59

I think it works. When you have really good friends who really believe in what you're what you're thinking about, and they encourage you and you listen to them, it's like buying that pair of jeans that your friend says your bum looks good. And you're like, right,

30:11

alright, I've got $100, you're like, I can't see my Bom. Bom looks good. I trust I have to try it. So you opened a brick and mortar store, but you weren't creating your own skincare line, you were narrating the best of the best point, it was also supposed to be a pop up. It was, it

30:29

was only for the summer. I just, you know, I think the idea, if I had to also say, one of the things I think about when we think about this time in life and going to the next place, right? You have to have vision to keep it going. But you don't have to have vision to get it started. You have to have belief to get it started. And those are two very different. That's such a good point. Right? So sometimes you just have to go with what feels natural or what feels good. Because at this point in your life, it's gonna be very hard to keep to something that you don't like,

31:02

totally. It's like, what can you wake up every morning and go, yes, I get to do this. And it's not that it's so easy, or it's like a walk in the park. But you have to be motivated and be able to stick to something that's a little bit of a grind. I mean, I

31:18

always say that when, you know, people ask me about my husband, I say, you know, I, I wasn't looking for a handsome gentleman. But I felt like I knew he had to be slightly attractive to me so that when he bothered me, I still think he was cute. That's how you think about knockout. Right? That's how I think about business. Right? You have to think that it's something you'd want to do that it's still cute to you. Yeah, even when it's hard, because yeah, there will be days when you're like, oh, boy, oh, boy. And that's where you have to really go with something that you care about, and you're interested in, and that you feel you can have, if you want to work in that time in your life, it becomes all encompassing. And so it's I mean, I didn't want a little job, I didn't want to dabble. That wasn't what I was going after. So it meant that everything that happened in my life was going to have to sort of work around or work with knockout. Right? How

32:17

did you go from pop up to? craziness?

32:21

Good question. Good question. So once it started, I knew I was onto something. So that was exciting. There was a lot of positive feedback.

32:33

coming in and getting treatments as well as getting buying not just products in the pop up

32:39

at that stage was just products. And then we had some visiting people come in to do things, but it was really just products. And that's the other thing is like businesses can and you can evolve. And we're either evolving or we're dying. So we may as well evolve. And the business doesn't look the same way today, as it did. As as it did when it started. It looks more like it looked probably nine months.

33:08

Right?

33:10

So I think that's something to think about too. If you're not sort of horrified by the first iteration of what you do, then you're not really growing, right? So there's this concept I think of like, I can't launch my website unless it's perfect, or I can't do and I've never been like that. So when I I decided one day, ever. There's people that actually were following me on Instagram at this time and watched it happen in real time. So I did it on Instagram Live, I actually went into the bath and turned the website on. And I mentioned it on Instagram Live, went, took a bath and got out and then went on live and I had my daughter sitting next to me and we were watching sales come in. We were watching the website take form right in front of our eyes, but like, there were things that didn't have pictures or descriptions there were I mean, it was so

34:02

are you selling bath products from your bathtub on? No,

34:07

we had I went I was on Instagram Live. Okay, I said, I think I'll turn the website on. Do not ask why I turn I clicked off of live I went into the tub to take my bath. I got out of the tub to find like 37 people on my website. I was so excited. I went back on Instagram Live to talk about it. And I called my daughter and from the other room and I was like you have to see this. It's the coolest thing. Oh, we're on India, people were on all over the place. It was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. And that moment was not planned. And nor was it a thing where I was like today we're launching the website. This is what's happening. It was like I had done the work to get to the point where it was good enough presentable. Yeah. And it wasn't perfect and

34:55

it's never going to be perfect. Never, ever

34:58

and ever and If, you know, the idea of like, we want to dream one size too large, so we have something to grow into, you know, why definitely felt like and I was clear about that with my followers as I, you know, signed off. I said, Alright, I'm going to turn the website on enjoy it. I said she's a work in progress. Yeah. And I think that that's always what, you know, business should be in 2021, you have to constantly be innovating. I mean, in, in business in general, you need to be innovating all the time. So if it's, if you always wait till it's perfect, you'll be out innovated by the time you launch it.

35:39

I know. And I mean, the thing is, is there's so many people in the spaces that we all are in or want to be in, that you would never start if you were constantly thinking about like, Oh, my God, how many skincare companies are there? Oh, my God, how many there

35:56

are at that stage? there? Were not a lot of beauty stores at that stage. So that's something interesting.

36:02

Yeah, that is interesting.

36:03

So now there's, you know, one, there's one all over the place, there's an independent beauty store, no matter where you look, at the time, that wasn't really the case. And there were a few, but for the most part, people that were purchasing beauty at that point, were really purchasing it in a department store or at Sephora,

36:24

right. And

36:27

they're like what we call green organic, beauty conscious. Yeah, you might also consciousness slightly different.

36:34

Yeah, that's what I want to ask you about is what the difference is between conscious beauty and clean beauty. Are they the same? Are they different? And what are knockouts? philosophy on that?

36:45

I love that question. So green beauty is really a synonym for or should be a synonym for like organic, right? That's sort of what they're really trying to say. Clean beauty is so there is an organic, you know, there's a governing body for organic. Clean beauty means nothing. There's no governing body for clean beauty. It has no, there's no clean beauty board. There's no so it's really an opinion, to be honest, saying. So when we think about conscious beauty, which is our philosophy, it's really more about being conscious of what you're putting on your body and being aware it's being aware of ingredients. But I found a lot of people who were, they would say they were organic, would have a face full of Botox.

37:39

Well, the thing I don't get, and then I want to talk to you when we go through our midlife skin routine? Or is if you're using retinols, or red nails, or any of those things, does that mean you're not in clean beauty? Or you're not a clean beauty advocate? Or can you use those ingredients?

37:58

So retinol is is just vitamin A, right? Okay. retinols are vitamin A. And so, when we talk about retinol now it's, it's a form of vitamin A, that is stronger and has an in many cases has been adjusted. Okay. Now, when we talk about, and I think there's a lot of words that are so confusing, like the word chemical, I mean,

38:23

chemicals, active ingredient.

38:26

So active ingredient is not is neither here nor there also in that in that it doesn't have a it doesn't define anything other than the performance of the product. Okay, so you can have an organic active ingredient. And you can also have

38:40

some beauties philosophy in this sort of rainbow menos Sheree of definitions. It's sort of like peanut allergies. My daughter has a peanut allergy. It's like, processed in a facility with peanuts may contain peanuts may have come in contact with a peanut, you're like, whoa.

39:00

So conscious beauty is really talking about your overall conversation, right? your overall toxic load, that toxic load comes from a myriad of things. So it comes from the food you eat. It comes from the things you clean your house with. It comes from the things you wash your hair with the things you put on your skin, the things you clean your clothes with. So and also where you live, right, because there's a higher toxic load if you're living in a city. Yeah. So when we think about toxic load, it's, I'm looking at it from a point of view of you may decide that Botox is your game and that's what you need to look your best and feel your best. You may have spent your whole toxic load on that, right. So you then need to look at where you're eating organic food pretty much exclusively and also thinking about what you're putting on your face, because you don't want to be in a situation where Where you're overloading your body with toxin? Yeah. And that also depends on your own biochemistry. So some people are incredibly good at detoxing. Some people are not some people have, and that is a genetic predisposition for the most part. So there is a gene called mthfr.

40:21

Which, familiar with that, but we bind it to everyone.

40:24

Sure. It's how our body methylates. And so it's our body's detox process and how it works to, to really accept and then make bioavailable, something, whatever it is. So it's in this case, it's often vitamins B Foley, and then the detox process, and you can

40:45

test for that. Because everyone in my family, we all tested for that. And then it kind of dictates whether you take, I think it was methylated, b 12, methylated. Bees in general. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, my God, I would never have known that. But why is that? So it's important in terms of the dumping your body's ability to dump it in person.

41:05

Yes. So it's important when we think about the detox process, but it's also important to think about something called the to 16 ratio, which has to do with your body, how your body processes estrogen. So if we're using beauty products that are estrogenic in nature, which many are their endocrine disruptors, that if you have the to 16 ratio, your body does not release estrogens in the same way it goes, they go on a different pathway. And that also is something that needs to be taken into consideration. Now, if you don't know or you're not interested in figuring that out, then you should probably err on the side of caution right. Now, with all of that said, if you're going to use something that is deemed organic, and it's going to disrupt your skin, and you would then do anything to fix it, including and not limited to some sort of intervention with a prescription of antibiotics or steroids, then you're probably better off using products that are a little bit more in the center, and a little bit more predictable and a little bit more balanced so that when you use them, you're not going into this thing where you're sending your skin into this other state and we have a ricochet effect, and it's bouncing right back in, you're using something even more intense.

42:21

Okay, I feel like you're so smart. And we're getting into, like so much researchy stuff, which is amazing. And I love because I'm a nerd, too. But I want to give listeners like a really practical taste of midlife skin. So in our 40s, would you call it the 40s? Is that one, like the changes start to happen from your perspective? You know,

42:46

it's really funny changes start to happen when our fertility changes for women. And our fertility tends to change in most women in our late 20s. So actually, what we start to see is that the skin changes if you look at it in general with hormones, right. And so what happens in our 40s that I think you're keying into, is this combination of inflammation going up?

43:09

Yes,

43:10

and hormones dropping or shifting. So it's that combo, that's pretty intense. It's that it's the mix of the inflammatory response with the hormone response. So when we think about that, when we think about what's inflammatory responses, we're talking about acne, rosacea, melasma, all the sort of big, problematic skin concerns are all coming they're rooted in inflammation.

43:33

Right. Now, would you say in terms of the main issues that women in this sort of part of life like I don't know what you would, would you call it perimenopausal menopausal? It's kind of all of that. When you when you're saying it's when the fertility starts to change? What are the key issues that women are facing from your perspective, I know what I'm facing from my own experience. And then I want to go into each one with some specific questions.

44:03

So I think we're, we're definitely looking at the combination of aging and acne in women. And we're looking at definitely a spike in rosacea. And then we're looking at sun damage, and melasma. And it depends really on To be honest, what's going on hormonally and also, potentially what they've done in the past to get rid of some damage that may have spiked melasma

44:31

Oh, interesting. I want to talk about that. So from my perspective, for me, it's like dryness, sagging melasma fine lines, adult acne and my creepy ass neck that drives me insane. So I know you're the melasma queen. And I honestly, I mean, honestly, I have to say it is like the bane of my existence. And I that's why I have to come see you because I've really tried So many things like IPOs this that the other and nothing seems to be working, what's going on melasma queen?

45:08

Well, first of all, IPL is counter indicated for melasma. So that's the biggest issue, I think, is that we have a lot of people going to derms who are recommending you can only recommend what's in your toolkit. It's, that's all you got. So I think that IPL is something that when you go to a Derm, and you say, I have, you know, pigment issues, that's one of the first things that is recommended. There's a difference between pigment and melasma. Oh, interesting. And so, we there's a very big difference between just like brown spots that you probably had from growing up in California and being in the sun than you do from, you know, or being out, you know, at Spring Break than you do from melasma is usually in some way. There was an aggressor of some sort. So whether that be a hormone shift, yeah, whether that be mine is from laser. You know, it can be from, in general, melasma usually is a perfect storm of several things coming together. So it'll be an inflammation and inflammatory response, mixed with hormones mixed. I mean, the number one thing I'll hear is like, I went away on vacation, and I came back with melasma. And I'll say, Well, did you have your period while you're on your trip? And they'll say, Oh, yeah, I did. And then they'll say, Were you drinking on your trip? And they'll say, Oh, yeah, I was I said, Were you sleeping a lot? They're like, no, I really wasn't. But

46:37

if so many things are involved in melasma. And contributors. How do you as a practitioner, kind of like, figure out that puzzle? I mean, somebody who comes to you is not going to fix 16 things in their lives. So do you have like a magic solution? Good question. Um, because melasma is so

46:58

it's, it presents itself so differently in each person, and each person has their own trigger. So some people will have the response from just the heat. So you'll they'll write hat and they'll say, I, I'm lathered in sunscreen, I've got a hat on and yet my melasma is coming out. And that's a heat response. And often when we see it's a heat response, often there's actually a heavy metal toxicity. Hmm. So that's something to look at. Not always but but quite often, often there's an mthfr component to it as well, because it has to do with how the body is detoxing. The other thing is like they'll say, I have a wear a hat and I wear and I have sunscreen on, but and I'll say what do you wear sunglasses? And they say no. And the funny thing is, is that the place where our body takes in the information to create melanin is actually through our retina initially. So that can be another part of it.

47:48

So you could not wear sunglasses and get brown melasma from that correct. Oh wow. That is some people right? Not everybody but some people. So what's your what's your magic solution? Kylie, like what's happening for the average knockout beauty mid life for come fixed my fucking brown spots, Kylie.

48:12

So I think the thing is, is that it's about feeding your body just the way you feed it with, you know, good healthy food and exercise, right? So we want to think about making sure your body is not deficient in any of the vitamins vitamins, A, B, C, D, E, we want to make sure that there's no deficiencies. And most people by the time we're in midlife, we are deficient in certain things.

48:35

So do you have clients go for go?

48:38

Do you send them out to get blood testing done? Like how do you know what those things are? You can see it topically you can see it topically? What's happening. So I can tell whether you have and also from your complaint, I can sort of see I know what's happening.

48:51

Oh, and I can't I don't even know how I'm going to come in to see you without makeup on. I'm gonna be like so embarrassed.

48:56

Oh, no, you should come as you are. And the thing is, is that I'm not looking like people saying like, when when you're talking to me, are you looking at my skin, I'm never looking at someone's skin, I'm looking at their eye, I'm listening to their laugh. I'm not paying attention to their skin. That's not part of who I am. When I'm really looking, I'm looking with a very different eye and I'm looking to also be supportive of you. Right? I'm looking to help you reach your goal. So you want me to be intentionally looking, you want me to be sort of unlocking whatever is happening?

49:30

Is there a main product that you use in your stores or your practice that people are just come back and back and back again and again? For

49:40

sure. I think we have a vitamin B three spray that people are obsessed with. So you talked about memory you talked about Yeah. mthfr and how you have the mthfr variation or one of them. And when we talk about that, if if we're taking in vitamin B that's not bioavailable to us, the likelihood of it, making gets way to our skin is pretty slim. And we need vitamin B topically vitamin B three which is also known as niacin amide. We need that for cellular metabolism, we need that for. It's actually in a clinical study, a blind study was proven as effective as hydrocodone which is a known

50:15

that that was gonna be my next question for you is hydrocodone. I actually have it from a dermatologist sitting in my refrigerator. But I'm actually panicked to use it. Because I just I feel like I've heard so many mixed things about it. And I used one, I used a pharmacy purchase one with hydrocodone and it made my face turn into like a health zone. So I don't know what's what.

50:40

So I think hydroquinone is one of those things like all ingredients where we want to be mindful, which is where the consciousness comes in. It's like, if you want to use hydroquinone, it's a banned substance in Europe, if I

50:52

know, in my fridge for six months, now,

50:56

I have a lot of clients that are like, I gotta get rid of this thing, I'm getting married, or my daughter's getting married, or I got to get rid of it, and I just want to go. And you know, that's, that's, that's where the consciousness comes in. It's like, what's the cost benefit analysis, and we have to be able to make that it's not me, it's not for me to make for you. But I can say that. Like anything, you know that it's clinically proven that the slower you lose weight, the more likely you are to keep it off. The slower we remove the melasma, the more likely you are to not have it flare back up. Right, and you're able to get a long term results. So

51:31

from your perspective, is it the B three spray,

51:34

I mean, in addition to the nutrients and all the things that we actually have to put in our body, for your magic toolkit, would it be the v3 spray and D URI and a vitamin A, okay, that's also really important, right? Because vitamin A regulates the skin, it tells the skin how to behave, it's like the great teacher of the skin. So it's one of those things when we think about all the vitamins and all the nutrients you have, you can eat them as much as you want, you can drink as much collagen as you want. Our hair and our nails are waste, our skin is actually not waste in the same way. It's our largest organ, okay, but it's not getting when we drink collagen, it's going to our hair and our skin, but it's really going to our gut lining. And the way that that's going to change our skin is actually that a healthier gut lining will reduce your level of inflammation. And we were talking about all these skin concerns coming from inflammation. So yes, it is a total.

52:31

So do you recommend probiotics also to sort of keep up your gut lining to maintain your face?

52:37

I mean, No, I don't. I don't I think I think you know, it's like probiotics are great for you. If you you know, as we all know, they're amazing. But I am not a doctor. And I try not to give medical advice. And so I mean, I don't give medical advice. I try not to I don't so I you know what you want to take internally, I can change your skin, whether or not you're taking a probiotic, whether or not you're drinking collagen. So

53:03

if I come into you with my brown staining all over my face, what are what's going to be your response to me,

53:09

I'm going to first ask you what you're currently using and what you've done in the past so that I make sure that I don't take you down that same path again. Okay, I will probably recommend that you use a vitamin A but not a retinol at first and you slowly build up the vitamin A in your body, I would definitely have you using vitamin B, I would have using vitamin C, Vitamin A being the great teacher, B being the problem solver and C being like the defender and we need that defense in order to not get brand new melasma.

53:41

Okay, so your A, B and C, what products can I buy on your website that are going to cover the A, B and C? Or do you have a bunch for each category?

53:52

We have a bunch for each category because but I think for the most part, this vitamin B three spray is probably the most important for cellular metabolism and getting into that and how do you use it? It's just like it's a toner.

54:07

So do you use it twice a day or once a day twice a day.

54:10

So you wash your skin and then you use it after as the second step.

54:14

Okay, and then do you put moisturizer over that and

54:17

you want to use your serums So generally, we always within us to thickest and

54:20

I was gonna say let's do the order of events because I think some of us are mixed up on that.

54:25

I agree. It's cleanse, tone, serum, moisturizer oil.

54:31

Okay, repeat that

54:32

cleanse, tone. And you can put essence in there after tone if you have an essence serum, moisturizer and then oil and then sunscreen.

54:43

I say when does the sunscreen come?

54:46

So interestingly enough, if you have melasma you are not a candidate for putting oil on your face. During the day. You can do that at night but not during the day. Same with rosacea. rosacea doesn't like oil. So when we're talking about Ironically though, acne likes oil, because oil pulls oil, but oil also acts like a lens from the sun's rays.

55:07

That's part of my struggle is I tried to do all these things, things to take away the brown spots, but my my skin is obsessed with the oil. So I put it on during the day even though I have a sunscreen on but I that was part of one of my questions for you is, I feel like I'm attracting the sun with the oil. But how do I get that dewy look without the oil because I mix the oil in with my tinted moisturizer?

55:31

So that's a very good question. And I think a common one, actually. So you want your glow to come from within almost number one. But you also want it to be that your skin is has a micro exfoliation regularly so that you don't ever have that dullness, so that you don't have to because basically, you're using almost the oil like makeup, right, you're using it to reflect the light. So it's more about the oil is actually the purpose of the oil is to seal in all the moisture. It's to it's to work. It's a process called sealing. So you do that at the end to seal it all in. It's a larger molecule and use it at the end. In the day, when you use it. It's like when you were little and you took a magnifying glass and you could burn paper on telling me that I know I'm sorry, it's the worst news but it's true. So by stopping the oil during the day, if you have brown spots and melasma you're already going to be ahead of the game.

56:29

Okay, but what am I going to use in its place,

56:32

you're going to use things that make you do it in other ways. Okay, like what, like well, we can get I love a good sunscreen that can make you do it. I think the daily dose from supergoop if you're addicted to the do looks beautiful, is the glow screen from supergoop. Both of those are oil above those whose me are glowing, but not oily, which is great. So I love

56:54

what I do when I mix that in with my so i would i would cleanse my face, I'd spray my face with the B three, right you

57:02

put your serums on so hopefully something with a little vitamin A going in there.

57:07

You can put vitamin A to go and go on the skin. I mean the skin go in the sun.

57:12

So vitamin A and retinol are not the same retina is vitamin A but not always retinols. So you do want a small level of vitamin A every day because that's what's helping your cellular turnover and actually, if you're used vitamin A correctly it should be strengthening and nourishing your skin. Okay not depleting it.

57:31

Okay, I am I have to come in I need like a whole rework. I think we're gonna make it happen. I steps backwards and sideways. I'm attracting the sun to my brown spots. I have no idea what's happening.

57:42

One of the things I think that people also mix up is they will put their like what do I do about my sunscreen, and it's like, your sunscreen on? Yeah, your sunscreen goes on, then your makeup, and then you need to reapply your sunscreen. So it's like, how am I going to do that if I don't want to move it all around. There's now amazing sprays.

58:01

That's what I was gonna ask you is what sprayed you like I've been trying to find one that doesn't mess up my makeup.

58:07

I love there's one that I'm obsessed with from silay to joar. I've always used it I it gives you a dewy look. And it's

58:15

very effective. Is that on your website? Yes, I think it is not in your store as I might be coming in today. Because I'm on my way right now I'm like, can I send someone right now to go get it.

58:27

And on Amazon, they have one I think it's called milania as the brand. I like that one too. Okay, um, I do think if you are a melasma suffer, reapplying your sunscreen is a key piece. I

58:39

know I have to be honest, I don't do that. Because I haven't found a spray that I like. And I just put it on under my makeup and just pray for the best and I do wear hats. But I think I'm one of those people who creates it even with the hat on.

58:52

You know what you could also do, I was one of those people too and I don't anymore. And I can help you with that. When we think about your you could also use a mineral powder to touch up your face in the day as well. And that could be a good solution for you. So maybe you're not a spray candidate or an application of cream candidates or

59:12

mineral powder that has an SPF in it. It was a lot of mine because I've tried those two and they make my face clumpy and gross.

59:19

So I've been color science is actually rated for it. It's a great one for that it comes in like you know they have a shimmer which you might like to do. But truly most mineral makeups have a quality to them where they have SPF in them. So you should find your highest quality mineral makeup that has an SPF in it that you like because it is better than nothing.

59:45

Yeah, is there a daily spray that you like so I could like it. That's why I like that set

59:51

and protect it's a little dewy, it's pretty, it doesn't move your makeup at all. So if you have like mascara and eyeliner, whatever because you're gonna close your eyes when you apply it. It's Not that I'm going to transfer onto your face. Oh,

1:00:02

amazing. I need I need that. Okay, now let's go back to the retinols. For a second. Yeah. What is? I've been using an oil. That's a Retton oil. Yeah, what is the Retton oil versus a retinol versus vitamin A, like what's happening. So you're

1:00:18

using an oil that has retinol in it, it's encapsulated in oil, and that's fine. But it's a nighttime product,

1:00:24

that's not a good time product. So you only use it at night. And that goes at the end.

1:00:29

So what's interesting about retinol, is that you want to also when we said we want to build cenis to thickest you also want to build your your Products, Lowest pH to higher pH because the skin likes to live. I know again, what the science lesson I'm sorry,

1:00:45

no, it's good, though. I love it. But I have to give the practical to which is like step one, step two, right. That's how my brain works.

1:00:53

Totally. So step one is that generally you want your, if you want your retinal to be effective, you want it on your skin right after your toner you want. And so when you have it at the end, which is fine, it's just a less active version at the end, right? So retina oil, if applied in the correct sequence, it's actually not just not going to be as wildly effective. Now, that can be great for just an overnight refresh, where you just wake up looking like okay, I'm looking a little dewy today. But when we want the efficacy of retinol, it should technically be applied right after toner. Now here's the funny thing that happens is that retinol and vitamin C sometimes need to be looked at because they can have, depending upon the formula, the pH could be lower or higher of those two products, which is very interesting. And people will say, Oh, they can't be used together. Well, they can be used together, they just have to be used in concert. And they need to be used with in the right order. And then with the right formulas. And this is why I think having a console is so key, right? So you know what you're doing. And it's not just like, I'm just going to go to the for or I'm just going to this place and try it. That's not to say you shouldn't go to Sephora, but it should say that you someone needs to help support you. If you're using as you like to say active ingredients. You want that activity to be done correctly and not to be aggressive. I

1:02:20

think I need an activity coordinator. I think you might have just I think you might have just nominated yourself as Sarah Milken zz activity coordinator for I love it. I love it. Okay, no wonder under eye cream. Sometimes I'm like, Oh, fuck it. I have so many I don't know which one works. I'm just gonna shove oil though vintners daughter under my eyes and just pray that it does the same work. Is that true? Like, do you have to use under eye cream? And which one do you like?

1:02:47

So that's a great question. I I feel like the under eye is one of those areas that it just tells your age really quickly. It's the under eye, the neck, the lip, and the hands. Right? I

1:03:01

know an answer. brutal.

1:03:03

So, you know, under eye cream is one of those funny things where if you're using a great whatever routine, whatever that is, yes, of course you can bring it up here. Like you're saying you're vintners and all those things. But I do not want you during that during the day. Right? It's ideally you're going to use something under your eyes that will give you a slight micro exfoliation that will also have some sort of plumping power because as we get older we have this thing. It's called troughing.

1:03:33

Oh, I'm an expert in the deep dive under the eyes.

1:03:36

Yeah. So it's like that troughing we want to we want to actually add a little bit of oomph in there. So we want something with the hyaluronic that's going to grab the water from the surrounding areas hyaluronic so cool because it grabs 1000 times the water from the surrounding areas. Wow. So it can plump the molecule 1000 times its size so

1:03:56

what's the under eye cream that you like?

1:03:59

You know again, it's like the who's what you know each one is different. Yeah. For like a general capsule for a great product. I am obsessed with the January labs, advanced AI technology. I have set it for years I will remain

1:04:12

i mean do you use it every night?

1:04:15

I use our cream morning and night. I'm 44 years old. I cannot be not using eye cream. Like that's not a choice and I use it morning and night. You know I forget I have but my intention is to use it every morning and I

1:04:27

got it. Okay, now going back to the exfoliation causation. Yeah, I have heard mixed things on exfoliation. Some people are like you're taking too many, too many layers off your skin and you're making it too thin and some people are like no you have to do it or the products are not going to absorb into your face. Tell us what the bottom line is on that. I know I have a headache from it too.

1:04:50

I have a headache from it because it's like it's the misinformation is so wild. And I think and this is where we get into a funny thing of like blanket statements or like a product that works for everything are universal advice, right? Your skin is exfoliating, whether you're helping it or not, right? But the rate at which its exfoliating as we age is slowing down. Okay, so we do need to support it in some way. Do I think that like, you know, you need to go hog wild and be exfoliating all the time, I don't. But I also think if you look at the difference between our men age and women age, men are aging in a very different way, because they're shaving. And that is actually an exfoliation every single day. And it's a pretty intense exhalation every single day. So when I think about it, it's like, and it's it's a headache, because it's like, this is where it's so important to get the right advice, because there's no way you will get rid of your melasma if you're not explaining your skin, because it's so deep. So you do have to explain it, but you do have to gently explain it. Because if you do exploit it too much, you will activate it more. Okay, this

1:05:58

leads to my next nerdy question, go forth in terms of exfoliation, there's exfoliation, where you're using like beads or sand that's or manual. And then there's like chemical ish exfoliation, right? For someone like me with melasma. And my dirty knowledge.

1:06:16

No, you're not a manual exfoliation candidate, particularly if you're somebody you tell me that. I wear a hat and I wear sunscreen, I still get melasma we definitely don't want to create, because a lot of times you're getting it where the hat is from just

1:06:29

Yeah. Right here. Yeah.

1:06:33

That's very common. I have a client, she was so diligent, and she wore a visor, and she got it literally like the path of the visor. It's because it's the aggression. It's the aggression of that of all of that movement from the visor moving that, you know, created that injury to the skin. Wow. And I say that in quotes, because that's what melasma is in response to its response to an aggression or what it what the skin perceives is an injury, which is why a laser can cause it because it's perceiving it as an injury.

1:07:06

No, is it all lasers? Is it? What about Wow, okay, good. Are there any lasers that you do? Like, for melasma? Mm hmm.

1:07:15

You know, they say that it's that clear and brilliant with the permit? They'll say the Pico Sure. Let's be honest, if I thought it was going to work, and I thought it was going to be great, I would do it myself. If you told me, I could get rid of my melasma by diving off of my balcony into my pool, and that was going to somehow create a massive exposure, get rid of it. I'd be like, oh, where do I sign up?

1:07:40

I mean, I'll be right after you.

1:07:42

Right. But wouldn't you so because that's just when you've battled melasma? for long enough? You're kind of like, Okay, I'm in, you know, I'm in it to win it. At this on the same side of that. It's like, I don't want to do anything that's going to cause it either.

1:07:54

Yeah. What chemical exfoliation Could someone like me do,

1:07:58

I'd love to see you using a, what's called a cool peel. And it is a low level tcaa peel. And it is so it's not a spicy peel, you're not a candidate for anything feeling spicy, because again, perceived injury. So you want something that's going to exfoliate you without the skin really knowing you're doing it, right. So you don't want to send the signal. What happens with melasma is it's like a switch has been turned on. And our goal is to either find a way to turn the switch off. Or so when we think about that that's hormones like a pregnancy or a pill or whatever, that's turning the switch on. So sometimes by just not being pregnant, or just by stopping the pill, we're turning the switch off. for other people. It's a whole other scenario. But when we think about it in this way, it's like if the switch is on, it's like we don't want to do anything that tells it that form.

1:08:55

Right. So does that mean that I'm not a candidate for micro needling or PRP or any of those things? Because those are is such

1:09:01

a good question. Ah, so glad you asked that question. Ah, and you are. What's fascinating, by about I think about micro needling and PRP is that they seem to positively affect melasma. Go figure. So it's a it's an injury that creates that actually has been clinically shown to actually support it. Now possible, right. So this is what we know. Remember, we talked about a switch going on. And so it's so deep, that I think that there is something that's going on where it's possibly turning the switch off. Because we're putting stem cells also have that quality. We're also again, you're injecting stem cells, but somehow they have that quality and, and the only thing that makes any sense is that it's possible. turning this turning the dial off and what happens when we do PRP. So the explanation for that would be is that when we do PRP, or we're doing anything, we're actually stimulating our natural growth factors in our skin. And those natural growth factors are supporting the health of the skin, but they're also creating newness in the skin. So instead of it building on old information, it's building on new information.

1:10:25

So for someone like me, or Lego group, let's say you took two clients, yeah. And you put them on the same regimen. And one did PRP like and micro needling and one didn't. But did the rest of your routine, would it just be a longer ride to get the same results?

1:10:47

Not necessarily. It really depends on your own personal makeup, right? It depends on how healthy you are. Because you can do PRP or do stem cells or any of those things. But it has to do with your healing process. And if your healing process is somehow compromised, it's not going to get you to where you need to be. So I know it sounds crazy, but like, again, with the science and again with like meeting an activity later. Yeah, like you need to kind of know where you fall into that category. So as an example, I am deep in the throes of perimenopause. And I arguably am like, you know, you're not considered to be in menopause until it's 12 months since your last period. I was halfway there. And then you know, got a surprise visit.

1:11:31

Hell is this like just get it over with just be done with his hair? let

1:11:36

let's talk about one midlife thing that I feel like needs to be addressed. Yes,

1:11:39

yeah, sure.

1:11:41

You know how it's they'll say, like, you know, when someone gets married, it's like, do not ask them when they're planning to have a baby. Right? Yeah. It's like when someone tells you they're in menopause, do not say your period may come back.

1:11:55

I don't want it. It's like a half orgasm. It's like,

1:12:01

what I mean, that it's not like everyone, some people desperately feel like their youth is attached to it.

1:12:07

I mean, oh, I but I mean, I know, this is probably not what you want to hear. But I take birth control pills. For a host of reasons. No, but I don't get my period, because I take it seven days a week, which I'm sure is contributing to my melasma I totally get that. Oh, 100%. Yeah. But it's not something I can give up right now. Otherwise, I'd be a fucking lunatic.

1:12:30

Look, a lot of people have to, you know, what we know about hormones, in general, is that it's about the balances of hormones in your body. And what we need to know also is if you're somebody that is your melasma is hormone driven, and you are going to do PRP or you are going to do something like that. Let's do it where your hormones are actually at the drop off point. Now because you're taking the pill seven days a week, you're it never drops down, right, when we have a natural period, we'll bring you around the cycle, you're going to have you're going to peak your your your estrogen, it will drop down and the estrogen will pick up and then that's how we stay pregnant if we get pregnant elation. So what we're talking about is that you're kind of keeping it an even rate. So you're definitely not a candidate for laser. Interesting.

1:13:23

He definitely not even clear and brilliant. By wouldn't do it. No. Wow. Okay, I would not you're saving me money. That's good. Right.

1:13:31

I love that. I mean, I think that I, I just feel like this is why it's so important to have an activity coordinator. Yes,

1:13:38

you're my new activity coordinators need to know. And I think that's important. Also, from your business perspective is your all of the people who work for knockout beauty are basically skin activity coordinators trained totally your protocol.

1:13:54

Yes, they are. And there's an and there's different tiers of that, right. So you can be a senior coordinate as senior where you can see I'm now using your vernacular. Now you can use, you can be a senior consultant, you can you can be a regular skin consultant, a senior skin consultant, a master skin consultant, okay. Um, and that comes from time spent and having, you know, dealt with enough different skin concerns.

1:14:19

Now that before I get to the rest of my stuff, like sagging, I want you to quickly tell us about what's happening. That's so exciting in your company right now. The franchising? Yeah.

1:14:31

So franchising is one of those things that if I had no full I didn't have a full understanding of franchising wasn't I had no earthly idea why anyone would franchise really, really until I went down this path and now, I don't know why everyone doesn't franchise. Like, what, why not learn from other people's mistakes? Why not take the map and get to your destination. I mean, that's really what you're talking about with the franchise. Right. So, when we talk about a franchise we're talking about, actually, in order to call yourself a franchise, you are a federally registered franchise. So you have actually gone through a process of creating a document that you have now submitted to the federal government, with financial representations with financial performance, as well as just all the nuts and bolts of how you do your business, what it takes to run the business. So you've made a representation to the federal government. And with that, you then are creating a program that then has to be registered. Some states requires registration, some doesn't some, some just required.

1:15:47

Sort of like a dessert got to be of a view.

1:15:50

I mean, hopefully a lot because Don't you think you need an activity coordinator now,

1:15:54

it's like, it's an interesting thing. Because I feel like with like dry bar, for example, where there are good blow dries, there are shitty blow dries, but nothing is going to be hugely impacted by having a shitty blow dry. But like with skin, like you said, there's so many variables of people's diets, exercise and where they live, and blah, blah, blah, how do you create a quasi formula, a flexible formula, when everybody's bringing such different baggage to the table,

1:16:30

there still is a flexible formula though, there still is a sort of basic, something that works. And then there's within that tweaking that can happen. I don't love when people go and they start with some giant routine unless they're out of everything, right? In my case, then, like, let's reinvent the wheel here. But we really want to start and move you slowly through it and start to show you results. The best relationship you can have with anybody that's wanting to support you, whether it's your hair color, whether it's your health, whether it's your skin, is to be in a monogamous relationship with people yeah, I understand you.

1:17:11

Right. I know, she, I don't cheat on my people,

1:17:14

right. And so the thing is, is that, when that happens, you want to earn trust, you would not want somebody to maybe take you to the color blonde that you are right now, from dark brown. And one day, it would be too shocking, even though you may want this may be your ultimate goal, right? It just would be too much it would feel it wouldn't, you wouldn't be able to even if you appreciated the journey, there would be some sort of freak out along the way. There's this idea with skin where we want to start in a certain place. And as we start to see how the skin responds, it actually tells us what's going on because our skin is our largest organ. So it really it's working in concert with your skin

1:17:52

and we are in relationship with quick fix society. We want instant results. We want them right now. And that was gonna be another question for you. Yeah. In this world. How are you dealing with women like me who are like Kylie, but I want the brown spots gone, like within the month. But Kylie, I want this right now. Like skincare is like, wait, it's like a fucking project.

1:18:14

It is a project because skin is so many layers deep. Right? So we I think one of the things that is interesting about knockout, when you talked about like, you know, being in your 40s and being in midlife, one of the reasons that women in their 40s are such a great client base for us is because generally women in their 40s are compliant. Generally, generally, women in their 40s have experienced enough to know that like, if I don't like the product is not going to work in your medicine cabinet. Number one. So we all know that. So it's like, it can be super pretty it also the packaging is not changing my skin. It's how you use it. And when you use it,

1:18:54

it's like having supplements in your drawer

1:18:56

1,000%. That doesn't mean you take supplements. So it's the same idea, right? So when we think about your skin, and we think about the results, and we think about long lasting results, we want to deliver them to you in a way that your skin is actually gaining strength. And so it's much like going to the gym, right? I don't want you to go to the gym suddenly and start doing a massive hit routine. And, you know, yes, in order to have the change, you have to have, you have to feel the the push of it right. But on some level, it's also going to discourage you too, because it's going to be too hard. You'll be too sore, you won't feel great. It's the same sort of thing. It's like, we want to look at it from a point of view of how do we introduce it to your skin so that you can so we do show you results pretty quickly to

1:19:45

be on have an accountability component to knock out like, Are people checking in on a weekly basis? Is it like weightwatchers? I love this question. This

1:19:56

is my favorite question. Okay, so we have People will say, you know, with like, if I had a woman who sold me shoes in a shoe store, I don't really want you to tell me when, like, I need new shoes. Like, that's not interesting to me, right? It's like, Who the fuck are you to be telling me that I need shoes?

1:20:14

Right? Tell me I need my teeth cleaned in six months.

1:20:18

Totally because it's benefiting your health. Right? So when we talk about the skin, we want you to it's a cumulative results. So we stay in touch with you, because we want to keep you on the routine, not for us for you, you will not see the results that you want to see. And so your investment isn't worth it, then if you're not going to be kept on us, right. So we work to be your skin consultants. So there everybody that works with us has a skin consultant attached to them. Yeah. And that makes a big difference. So we can keep you where your skincare coach.

1:20:51

So How often would a client check in with that? COACH?

1:20:56

It depends on average about if we haven't heard from you in like seven weeks, we generally check in with you Just because that's about the time where you might run out of something. And so we don't want you to run out and laps particularly we talked about the vitamins that we talked about, right? It's they're building up in your system. So we don't want you to lapse for you. So we like to make sure that we stay in touch with you to keep you on your path. And then as we start to get you built up, we can actually up your level of vitamin A, we can

1:21:26

move your move your microphone cord, because I feel like it's hitting your hand. That better. Yeah, go. There we go. No, no,

1:21:36

we can thank you for for getting me on. I thought it might be my hoops. I can hear them. The so what I think is more important is to know that you can reach out to your skin consultant at any point. That's what's more important, right? It's like we will check in on you. But you can check in with us at any stage.

1:21:57

Is it a phone call? Is it attacks? I mean, ideally, it's an email or call. Okay,

1:22:04

I think text we do we will text with you, of course and we can text with you. I think that it's we usually reach out via email, it just feels the least intrusive. Yeah, no, I got the times, you know, if you have a relationship with your skin consultant, and that's how you like to operate. They're pretty great about switching it up however you need it to be,

1:22:26

which I didn't ask about sagging, because that's like a nightmare.

1:22:30

Well, sagging is the same funny thing, right? It's all working on making sure that your skin is strong, right. So the stronger your skin, the less it will sag less it will create brown spots, the less it will have rosacea, the less it will freak out. So when we think about sagging of skin, one of the things that we want to think about is are we contributing to the degrading of the skin? Or are we contributing to the nourishment of the skin. And we don't want so when you're talking about exfoliation, too much too much exfoliation. We're degrading the skin, right? We're thinning the skin, we want to actually strengthen the skin. We don't want it to be too thick, though, which is interesting. So it's that happy little balance. So when we think about anything where sagging comes into play, a couple of things come into play with that one is lymphatic system, which is just the junk that sits in our face that the toxins, believe it or not that pool, so like the jolliness it's all about. So that's massage for sure. And making sure you're massaging your face regularly and that lifting. Also, we want to think about knitting the skin back up. And one of the ways that we can do that is through vitamin A and explanation vitamin C does that as well. micro needling does that just at home micro needling doesn't have to be PRP microcurrent also helps us lifting because that's stimulating the ATP in our body, which is the energy that our body runs on that's created by our mitochondria. I know sorry, back into the science.

1:24:00

Oh, it's good. It's good. But now in terms of fillers, Botox, like, Yeah, do you work in conjunction with those because most people

1:24:15

in the cities that we are in our bricks and mortar stores have Botox and filler. So we have definitely created our program to keep that in mind and to work with that. In fact, the machine that we use for microcurrent in our stores actually has an element to it where it's using sono phrases, which is sound and out of races, which is touch penetration, because when you use traditional microcurrent and you have fillers or anything, it actually creates an impediment so that connection can't the the, the current can't connect, which you need. So when you have the sound wave breaking that up actually can make the connection so we Deaf Keep that in mind, I call it the modern face, right? It's like the modern face has stuff in it. So we want to make sure that we can treat the modern face.

1:25:07

So you think that everything can be done topically, it can be it like there can be some of your clients who are coming to you. And do you have to sort of make them have realistic expectations? I mean, there is a general hollowness and sag factor that perhaps topical treatments and in office treatments can't fill in like a filler could correct.

1:25:33

Yeah, I mean, when we think about that, right, it's like we're thinking about Also, if you're slight on your frame, I don't know how we can expect if we have a tiny bump to have to also have that face, like I don't know where that's gonna go. Right. So it's like we're talking about, we're talking about some different things here we're talking about, you know, but I think, you know, you can plump up your lip to a point with, you know, using microcurrent. And using ingredients. At a certain point, if you have a really, really thin lip and you want a certain Look, there's it's also about managing the expression of what look you're going for. My goal is not for you to look like someone else, my goal is for you to look like you. But if your goal is to look like someone else, that's your that's takes in a

1:26:26

tricky conversation. Yeah, and

1:26:28

but I think that that's also I think that there's part of the reinvention for a lot of women is to be able to be what you want to be. And it's like, Who am I to say that you shouldn't if you want more beautiful cheekbones, like Who am I to say you shouldn't ask them, right? Who am I to say, Oh, it's, you know,

1:26:45

I was living in your own lane, you know, because we did Middle School where everyone wants to be like everybody else, and everyone wants to judge everyone else. Like, this is definitely a time where it's like, Hey, guys, let's all do us, Botox, no Botox, whatever it is that you want to be doing with yourself. And we don't have an opinion on it one way or the other. So we we work with everybody. And, you know, and by and large, a large portion of our, you know, client makeup does some sort of intervention. So what about tools, tools, I love it to order your games.

1:27:24

I mean, I love derma rolling, I think derma rolling is one of the few things you can put filler in your face all you want all day long. It's very hard to change the texture of your skin without using a laser. So the only other way to really do that is with the dermal filler.

1:27:39

And what do you do with the derma roller? Is it pokey and prickly or is it this hokey and prickly? Okay, so it's not there because there's also the smooth sort of Jade Rose Quartz wants is to those really work

1:27:51

that's moving the lymphatic stuff around, which is important because our lymphatic system doesn't have a pump. So we do need to massage to get the lymphatic stuff moving around. And lymphatic system is the custodial system right? Other than the digestive system. Wait, are

1:28:05

you touching the cord on the microphone on the No, I don't know what this like. scratchy noise might be my my thing my blouse might be my bosoms might be my mentally awesome. Excuse Kylie's, like extra noise in the background. She's rubbing the cord on her. I mean, that's what it feels like, because mine actually is do you see it's quite high up. That's so I know. That's what's so weird about it. Okay, anyway, go ahead. I'm so sorry. No, don't apologize. I just don't I just want to make sure it's not me. And then I'm not doing something. Okay, well, now I just lost track of what I was saying.

1:28:42

We were discussing. Oh, now now that he was about rollers, we're talking about tools and rollers. So the roller that we're talking the prickly roller is allowing for product penetration. So it allows the molecules to go So generally, when we think about products that are changing the skin, they have a low molecular volume, and that needs to go and that penetrates deeper into the dermis. So the epidermis is the top layer, the dermis is below that, and a lot of the action is happening in the dermis

1:29:14

for a melasma person like me, can I can I attack my skin and injure with a derma roller?

1:29:21

It's not going to attack it in that way. It's not enough of a injury in that way.

1:29:27

But But an exfoliator with beads is more than that. You know what's funny? Yes. Interesting? Yes,

1:29:34

it is. Because it's different. The skin just responds differently to it. I don't often

1:29:41

would you use that. So

1:29:45

I like I like a roller You know, every three to four, three to four days a week. You don't need to do it every day. I think that the difference also when we talk about an explanation with some sort of beat or Something is you're actively going over the same area quite a bit. And so, and we noticed we have melasma often in specific areas. So it's different than you're rolling your whole face. And it's, you're not, you don't have to apply a lot of pressure either. Oh, I

1:30:17

say, right. So that's just sort of like poking it and perforating it so that the treatments go in.

1:30:23

Exactly. And, and that's, I think the thing is that you're actually then feeding it with something that's actually going to combat the melasma. So something that has

1:30:32

the Tyros, what's what are the steps you you wash your face, wash your face, you tone your face, you roll, then you apply your serum, so you don't roll with any formula like or any liquid, it just No,

1:30:44

because it doesn't need that to move you're saying whereas if you were using a jade roller you would want like an oil or something to get the slip going.

1:30:53

Okay. Oh, wait, I have another question for you. So I use oil to cleanse my face. Yep. But then someone said to me, but are you using a cleanser after and I was like, but isn't that gonna strip my face? And they're like, Yeah, but you're smashing around all the makeup that you took off? And there's no like, overall cleaning factor happening. So should I be double cleansing my face.

1:31:16

So oil actually pulls oil. So oil actually will remove a lot of pollutants in the makeup. So the question is, is that? Are you rinsing well afterward, because you do want to remove that oily molecule. That's the only problem is that that molecule Remember, we talked about when we talked about the firing the oil is at the end? If you're not properly removing that oil, it could be a barrier between you and the rest of your active skincare.

1:31:42

So should I be using a like a wet washcloth? Or is that too much of an exfoliator

1:31:47

for you? Probably not just a lot of you know, getting a bang. Just get it just a lot of you know,

1:31:55

I think it's it's really just like get in there like a little duckling and just splash about.

1:31:59

Got it. Okay, now if you were on a desert island, Kylie, okay. Did you like they were like you have 15 seconds to pack your shit. You can take five skincare things like what would they be? I mean, if I have five I'd be fine. Okay, so what would they be? I would have a cleanser, a toner oil cleanser or

1:32:20

not an oil cleanser, I would have probably an a creamy cleanser of some sort. Okay, I have a creamy cleanser. I would have a toner, I would have a serum, a moisturizer. And then I would have sunscreen.

1:32:37

Would you have a roller? I mean, if you could add a six?

1:32:41

Well, oh, if I could have a tool going, um, I would maybe switch out my moisturizer for my roller and I would have a moisturizing sunscreen if I had to.

1:32:55

Oh, okay. Now I really helped me what your those favorite products are. So I can put links in the show notes. Oh, yeah. So

1:33:05

when I think about a cleanser, for me and my skin type, I always go for something that's creamy. Now with that said, What's important about cleanser is that is the pH balance of the cleanser. So in a universal kind of world, which I think we like to think about on this particular podcast. Yeah, is I love the January labs, pure and gentle cleansing gel. It's a great product. And it's kind of universal, where like, my daughter can use it, and I can use it and my dad who's 69. And it doesn't

1:33:37

feel stripping. It does not?

1:33:40

It does not because it's not, it's not creating a situation where it's throwing off my Ph. So I love that. I like the v3 toner very much. I think that would be my second choice. In terms of serum. And this is where it's very interesting. I think that by and large, every single person can benefit from hyaluronic acid, everybody. Now there are people that say I'm sensitive to hyaluronic acid and all the things that people say I'm sensitive to vitamin A, I think that if you have some sort of antioxidant, something going in there, you're going to be better off than anything else. So if I could come up with the perfect serum for you, I'd want something that has antioxidants in it, and a little bit of hyaluronic, kind of get all of that happening all at once. When I think about all of that in like a giant overall story of serum for you. I kind of feel like I can't say there's one that I think is universal, unfortunately. And I wish that there was when it comes to the universe, universal quality to it. It's really because it's like what we're talking about every day for the rest of our lives. Do you know what I mean? on a on a desert island. So what I will say Is that ABS t gel is a serum that is it's a vitamin A based product. It's a very low level of vitamin A, it's in a gel form. And it's actually used at Shriners Hospital in Boston on babies that are born with a compromised lipid barrier function. So that makes sense. So it feels like that would be the best choice. And so because it has vitamin A, it has anti aging qualities to it.

1:35:25

I think that your daughter who's a teenager who also does some skincare stuff with you uses that and he does Yeah, okay, I remember he

1:35:35

does. Yep, so I would say ABS tea gel, so it's not going to give me a lot of bang for my buck, but it will give me predictable skin, which I'd like on my desert island totally. And then my final thing I think I would use is a sunscreen that acts a little bit like a moisturizer if I had if I couldn't have a moisturizer. So I would love the daily dose from supergoop or I would love the serum sunscreen from supergroup. Those would be my two choices if I was not able to have a moisturizer if I'm able to have a moisturizer I'd like to bring the I'd like to bring the bee venom with me because it acts like a topical Botox. Mama Mama needs a little nature's Botox called bee venom. It's called it's the law cram beauty venom cream.

1:36:20

Okay, well, I'm not up to this afternoon to I mean, there's so many things that might be happening this afternoon. Like screw college counseling meeting or whatever I have planned with my son. That's fine. Deliver in Los Angeles. Amazing. You could have a same day delivery. Oh my god, you could like do Postmates with skincare. Totally. That is awesome. Okay, what about silk pillowcases? Is that bullshit?

1:36:47

No, actually, silk pillowcases are amazing. Because I

1:36:49

hear them. Yeah, they're great. I think that's a smart move. What is it doing for my skin? Why am I buying into this?

1:36:56

It's the friction. So this so what we want Remember, we talked about aggression to the skin and aggression and particularly for the hair? Yeah, I don't want any of that. You know, what you get from it? silk pillowcases. There's no tooth to it. So it's not grabbing in any way.

1:37:12

Hmm. What's the brand of the one? Is it silk? Is that? So I think I have silk pillowcases. Yeah, I don't know. Now my daughter's like wait, should I have so pillowcases. I'm like, I didn't offer them to you. You just happen to see them. You just happen to see them in my bedroom. Like I'm not getting into that. This is so how daughters are I mean, does your daughter have so pillowcases? She does not okay, well, maybe maybe what her name is read right? Yeah, maybe read and Mary need to get soaked pillowcases for their birthdays.

1:37:47

Maybe that I think that that's an that feels like a good time. It's like if you're really committed to this silk pillowcase thing, then you're willing to have it be your birthday present or your total.

1:37:55

And the funny thing is my daughter's skincare routine is like eight steps longer than mine. And she's crazy that it? Like she's like, Oh yeah, I got two pimples on my forehead. So I watched the Derm doctor done it and I don't even know who the Derm doctor is, you know, and she Khaled AR information.

1:38:16

I mean, they're great researchers, right? That's sort of what they're what they're being taught in school, hopefully is how to gain information and knowledge and how to find out what you want to what do you want to know. And so if you're interested in skincare, you know, you're learning how to actually do that research. And so many teens have incredibly thorough skincare for

1:38:37

toe, it's like 14 steps. She's like, and then I use this serum and then this one, I'm like looking at her like what, and then she had to pimple she didn't like so she used whatever my son was using because he somehow figured out how to clear up his acne through Tick tock tick tock is very informative. Yeah. And so then she used it and she actually burned her face in all of his acne over three weeks, which was like unbelievable. It was a kind of like a retinal ish pro over the counter product. And she has such sensitive skin that she actually like, gave herself like almost a burn everywhere it took like, why we need an activity coordinator. Yes, that's gonna that's gonna be your new your new thing for us.

1:39:20

I know I kind of like that. I like being your activity coordinator. I mean, I sort of sometimes when people do a consult with me, they'll go, oh my god, he psychic. That's what they'll say to me. How did you know that?

1:39:32

Like I was using oil all over my face and then driving through Los Angeles,

1:39:36

right? Like it's become so I always joke that if I had a podcast, I'd call it the skin psychic.

1:39:41

Oh, totally. And you're like, are you only eating like sugar at night? Oh, yes, I am. How did you know that

1:39:48

funny enough sugars and the sun are not good friends because of the glycation. So that's the other thing. It's like if you're going to if you want to protect your skin, you're eating fat. You're not eating. So a keto diet, actually the skin really likes that, unfortunately, for you know,

1:40:07

a sugar addict, which I know you're not a doctor, and I know you're not a big supplement pusher, but are there a few keys? Oh, my earphone just fell out. Are there a few key supplements that you use as part of your own daily routine?

1:40:22

That's a good question. So there's something called polypodium leucotomos.

1:40:27

Oh my God, why is that?

1:40:30

So that's actually going to be great for your for melasma, which is wonderful.

1:40:34

That's the longest word I've ever heard. Can you say that again? polypodium leucotomos. I'm gonna look that one up. I'm going to put it in the show now. Okay, is that a pill from Amazon,

1:40:45

it's, um, it's actually they have it in different forms. It's in like, heliocare vitamins as well, which is interesting. But they also have it in those vitamins that are, you know, like, little gummies have them too for the skin and it protects the skin.

1:41:02

So, anything else? So

1:41:03

in terms of, well, you know, I love vitamin D, I think vitamin D is imperative for your immune system. So vitamin D is a mainstay in my routine, I think, you know, you kind of can't go wrong with having a little vitamin D in your sis,

1:41:16

how many milligrams you take a day, are you one of those 10,000 a day errs?

1:41:20

I'm not but I do take a lot of it. And I also have cancer in my, in my family. So it's important for me to make sure that I have enough vitamin D. I also think it's important to take a bioavailable source of vitamin B. So if you don't know whether you have mthfr variations, you should probably take a methylated b just to be sure because if you're going to

1:41:42

you know just take my kids take it to and they're like I don't like the way this dissolvable weird thing tastes I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't know what to say do just take it. I have a formula for you that I'll send you do that. Okay. That's really not bad. Yeah, right under your tongue. And it's like, easy, and it's tastes like baby aspirin. Oh, no, this one's like a red one that kind of tastes weird. I get it. But kids are like, Yeah, I don't think so. What about fish oils and skin?

1:42:08

Interesting. So yes, fish oils will help your skin they also will make your period quite heavy. So if you're perimenopausal Sorry, I know. But it's true.

1:42:17

So what do you do to go around that? Or do you just accept this?

1:42:21

You stop it when you have your period so that you can not have a very heavy period when and when women are in perimenopause. Usually they have fairly intense periods. So that's an often it's because they're taking fish oil as well.

1:42:35

I'd never heard that in all of my 46 years on this planet. Well, you're not getting your period right now. So I know. But like my daughter gets her period, and she writes fish oil. So maybe it's being Maybe her periods heavier because of it. I hope during that time period,

1:42:50

during that time period, it could be now fish oil is really important for your brain function for so many other things. So what I would say is that you just stop using it during that time period. But essential fatty acids are so important for your skin. They are one of the most important things. That's why when I said if you're eating fats, it's really important for your skin. It's having essential fatty acids is key. So you do want to make sure that you do have them in your routine.

1:43:18

Okay, anything else?

1:43:21

I mean, you know, I think there's a lot of lot can be gained from a lot of different things. I think women who are going through perimenopause often find a lot of relief by taking Makkah

1:43:35

that I take ashwagandha but I'm not sure it has the same effect great for the mood. I mean, ashwagandha is great for the mode. But you know, my husband and my kids, I think

1:43:45

100% I mean, I err on the side of caution when I sort of when I recommend i mean i don't really recommend supplements because

1:43:53

no but I'm saying do the things that you do is part of your routine.

1:43:56

Well, I do for my routine biotin can make me break out Me too. Oh, so in order to get my hair to be stronger, I take collagen for my actually for my hair, not for my skin.

1:44:11

And my collagen do take

1:44:14

I'm obsessed with the powder from holy mane from I mean from agent the Torah called holy name.

1:44:19

It's so good. Oh, okay, that's gonna be part of my Postmates delivery from you. I

1:44:22

think it's very good. It really changed my hair and my skin. But really, it changed my nails the most and my hair and my nails the most but it changes your skin because remember, I told you it's coating your stomach lining and so you're actually less likely to have inflammatory response.

1:44:41

So it's not really because when people say drinking collagen is bullshit for your skin. You're saying it's not it's not like slathering on lotion on your skin but you are creating a chain reaction of having a healthier gut which then in turn creates healthier skin.

1:45:00

It's also helping you absorb nutrients. It's I mean, it's a chain reaction. Okay? I mean, but it's not like I now do not you know now the troughs and or my eyes are now full because I had a smoothie with collagen in it.

1:45:13

Oh no, that there's a filler for that. That's called Dr. Jason diamonds office. I've already done a podcast with him. That other project unto itself. This was the first year though all say that we dove into the troughs. Interesting. So there you go. Yeah. Yeah, and but I have we haven't mastered the neck yet. I feel like the neck. I mean, is there anything you can say about the neck because I feel like I'm in the zone of like, it either has to be surgical, or I just have to live with the hanging extra skin. The creepiness?

1:45:54

The neck is a funny thing. Like, I feel like it's my neck. It's not a great neck. It's not I'm not, I'm not serving up goodness. Well, you have to work on your neck. So when I work on my neck, my neck looks great. When I don't work on my neck, my neck doesn't look great.

1:46:05

But what's work? Is it like using the derma? Do you use the derma roller on your neck?

1:46:10

When I'm using the derma roller on my neck? It's great. Now, interestingly enough, you people will say, Oh, you can use the new face on your neck. You can but you have to avoid the center line. Because you actually never want to use microcurrent because that's on your thyroid.

1:46:24

Oh, yeah. So you can't use the derma roller on your can. You just don't want to use microcurrent there. Oh, micro on the centralized. Yeah, the neck is a nightmare. The neck

1:46:37

is a nightmare. It's like, you know, it's sort of one of those things where it really gives you away.

1:46:42

I know. I want to duct tape the back of it. It looks real. I'll do that with you. Yeah, like look like what goes on? Yeah. See? Like, it literally takes 10 years off of you, Kylie when you not you personally but one the other day I was sitting on your bollard, and I could see all the skin hanging on the front of my neck. And I thought, wow, do other people see me like that?

1:47:06

I didn't even notice your neck until you brought it home. Right? True.

1:47:11

Yeah, when I come in to see you when I pick up my 17 things before the postmy cancels on me for too many items. Okay, I wait, this conversation could go on for 15 hours. But I want to tell you how much I've enjoyed having you on. I loved hearing about how your business just grew from this tiny little Instagram inspiration into this huge company that's now going to be franchise but at least I have you as like the main founder right here in Los Angeles, two minutes away from me.

1:47:44

Well, that's the thing about the franchises too, though, is that they have me too, right? They have me I'm their fairy godmother. Um, so it doesn't, it's not like I'm going anywhere. The the you know, having me here with you, is just a bonus, but more because we get to hang out.

1:48:05

But in turn matching clothes and wear matching clothes

1:48:07

and earrings. But we I think what's interesting about this idea of franchising, or being in another, or being in places where I'm not, is that we have always done these virtual console. It's always it's never, you know, normally I don't do it over zoom, I do it over the phone with pictures. And I can really zoom in because as you said, I can't see anything over zoom. And we and we have a conversation. I think sometimes when you're not looking face to face with somebody, it's like being in a confessional. Yeah, I feel like you can just share with greater ease. And so we've always done those. And you know, the great thing about being able to be have a store there is you have the immediacy of not running out of things that we talked about and having making sure that you stay compliant. And somewhere where you can get your treatments because I think that's a big piece of the puzzle.

1:48:56

Yeah, I'm gonna be coming in for treatments too. Before we finish I want to do the fun shit with Kylie. Are you ready? Yes. Let's go. What's next on the bucket list? I don't have a bucket list. And I never had I'm sorry to report. No. But you do have the franchise's coming.

1:49:12

Right? So I would say have a business bucket list. Right. And so I would say the franchises are a big piece of that. I have some other things hidden up my sleeve. I'll maybe have to share that with you on another podcast. Yeah,

1:49:24

you're definitely coming back as my coordinator. You might be promoted. What's above a coordinator? supervisor manager? It could be a director. Yeah, director. That's it director of Sara skincare. Okay, I'm into that. Anything that you have learned after quarantine that's on your bucket list.

1:49:44

I like this one. Um, you know, I realized that I didn't live life all that differently when I was in

1:49:56

which says a lot about me. So I'm My zamin you're a hybrid Nadir, I'm sort of a hybrid. So my would you call yourself like? Is it a little bit of a hermit? extrovert? extrovert? Or is it an extra? extroverted introvert? I think that I am an introverted introvert. I have you built brick and mortar stores to do the chit chat from your Instagram.

1:50:25

It's not normal. I know. But I do have that side to me, I'd like to sort of, you know, I like to be in my own little womb sodhi too. So what I will say about that is that I have learned that when I have opportunities to go somewhere and to do things, I need to do them because that I that's not my natural proclivity. And I think it's important to I wonder if, you know, when I get to the other side of life, if I'll say like, Oh, I didn't do that I didn't go enough places or do enough things. Now, one thing that got me through this was a trip that my daughter and I took to Paris right before. And so I think about that, and I think, okay, it's like it's really about, like, if there's an opportunity to travel or to do maybe it's time to do.

1:51:12

Yeah, I like that. Because I think sometimes we get so set in our routines and what we're doing that it's hard to kind of take up on that spontaneity factor, especially now that there's like restrictions and worries and past worries. But that's that's a good one. Okay, what about secret pleasure? It's a secret. Hello. Just tell us

1:51:36

my secret pleasures. I, you know, I feel like I'm very transparent, unfortunately.

1:51:42

Okay, so not so secret pleasures. I mean, obviously, you're a nerd. So

1:51:45

you'd like to total nerd. I think my you know, my things that I love that are not necessarily my secret pleasures, but I love to dance and listen to music. And I think one of my things that maybe I like to do when I you know, during quarantine, when everyone was like, I leave the house, I was like, Don't worry, I'll leave the house. And I would literally just get in the car and like blast music. And I'd be like, Oh, fine for a good week. Now.

1:52:11

As long as your daughter's on the car, my kids are like, Oh my god, she has to stop and I'm blasting podcast. So as soon as someone gets in the car, I have to turn them off because my daughter is like, I can't listen to this. I'm not listening to myself. But I'm listening to other people. Because I oh nine nerd. So I like hip hop. Oh my gosh, you you and my husband, my husband. I'm like reliving our you know, because we went to high school together. So now I'm like reliving our high school years with his hip hop fascination. And okay, favorite beauty treatment. That's like such a weird question for you.

1:52:43

So I love obviously I love our facial because I developed it. But I also love it lymphatic massage. I think that getting that lymph moving can really live in you up and make you look very swan. Yay. And give you that freshness because it's like taking the trash out.

1:52:58

Do you do that at your?

1:53:01

We actually do. But I we haven't been doing it during COVID. But we do do it. And I actually just I like to even just get on a lymphatic machine, which is

1:53:11

I've never heard of that. It's a marathon. machine. There's a little machine you can get on? Oh yeah. But you lay down on it like it's a full body.

1:53:23

It's actually the one I like is it moves your ankles. It's very cool. And then it kind of like fishtails your whole body.

1:53:29

And how often do you do it? I mean, it depends on the day, sometimes twice a day. No. Yeah, no way. Yes.

1:53:38

No, I mean, I don't always do it either. But like it's it enlivens the body, it's actually taking the trash out.

1:53:45

That's so funny that you're saying I know I tried to I was explaining to my kids, because my daughter's like obsessed with flossing like I am. But my son like could take it or leave it but he's getting better about it. And I tried to explain to him because I think Carl Patterson once said, to try to explain it to your kids that if you don't floss, it's like not taking the trash out. And that's sort of like what you're describing right now.

1:54:09

I had a dentist who once said, like not flushing the toilet after you go and I was like, whoa.

1:54:16

Yeah, see ya. I'm a dentist daughter. So the flossing is like key for me. But now that my son is almost 17 he's actually like, Mom, look, I've like floss every day for a month and I'm like, amazing. Okay, God health is amazing. Things have you done or not done that you want to do?

1:54:37

Oh, good question. I grew up in a very woowoo world. So I've probably done all the woowoo things. I practice tm which I think feels sort of woowoo to people but it's very grounding and helpful. So I think that's maybe my if I had to say a

1:54:53

word you are you like 100% committed to it. Are you like an occasional tm are

1:54:57

such a nice way to put that I think it works better when I do it more and I can fall off the wagon and then I have to get back on.

1:55:07

I know that's how I do it. But I do. Susie shorts is the unplugged meditation. Yeah. Because I'm like, okay, it may not be the perfect voice or the exact person that I wanted to listen to this second, but at least I've done my 10 minutes. Right? So tm is my own mantra. My I know, but nothing hard for me.

1:55:27

So I think that that's where it's like, I don't care how you're meditating. I don't care what you're doing. It's like, Whatever makes you feel like you can come back to center and come back to self is probably a good thing.

1:55:39

Yeah, no, I just have a joke before I before I get out of bed. But if I had to repeat the same thing to myself, I would probably drive myself crazy. Listening to myself, okay, intuition, was it natural to you? Or did you have to work at it?

1:55:56

So I feel like intuition is natural. But I feel like intuition listening to your intuition and trusting your intuition. story. So um, I'll be honest with you that I think I've gone I've abdun flowed in the intuition world. I think when I was younger, I was much more conscious of listening to my intuition and much more aware of my intuition, leading me down the right path. I think that as, as life gets more complicated, it's harder to hear that voice, which is why I think it's important to meditate, actually. I think that I think it's more of I think everyone has intuition, but you have to learn how to listen to it.

1:56:37

Yeah, it's so hard. And I think it's an interesting thing, teaching your kids 100% listen to it. I mean, I remember saying to my son, especially when he was young, I was like, you know, those like, butterflies are that like feeling you get in your tummy when it's just not 100%? Right? Like those you have to listen to. And so as he grew up, he would say, Yeah, I just didn't feel right in my tummy. That's so can you may not be able to 100% articulate it in words, but you can know the feeling of like, yeah, maybe that is a shitty friend. Maybe that's not a good place to be right now.

1:57:14

I think that's so important. And I think the other thing for women in our age range and women that are looking at something new to also remember that there's a very close relationship and feeling between anticipatory

1:57:28

anxiety. 100%.

1:57:31

And that's, I think that distinction is huge, because a lot of times, we're gonna be like, Oh, my gosh, it just feels so overwhelming. It's like, you might be excited.

1:57:38

No, you know, it's so weird that you just said that, because last night, I posted a story on my Instagram that says, Do you ever get butterflies in your stomach before you do something new? And then I when I was like, all these people responded, it was crazy. And I said, it's so interesting, because that feeling can be good or bad. But it's like, at least you like you were scared, but you did it anyway. And you came out the other side 100%. And I don't I think us in this age time, like, sometimes we won't be, we don't want to be scared. So we're like, wait, I'm old enough. I don't have to do that shit. But we expect our kids too. And that's what I talk about is like, we expect our kids to like, take up the flute, even though they've never played like continue on the soccer team, even though they hate it or whatever. But we don't put the same expectations upon ourselves. Well,

1:58:33

some of that is a muscle, right? So building the muscle to get better at something. But also there's this idea of like, there's no such thing as fearlessness. Right. It's like doing it with fear,

1:58:43

and dirt and doing it anyway.

1:58:45

Yeah. And I think that that's, I used to really want to be fearless. I thought that that would be a great thing. And as I get older, I really recognize that it's not possible. It's just not possible. You just it you have to be have the fear. See the fear? Look, the fear in the eye and say, and we do it anyway.

1:59:03

Yeah, it that I think that's the biggest thing for me in this whole podcast, his whole self recreation journey is like, it's fucking scary. It makes me nervous. But I'm going to do it anyway. Because if I don't like you said earlier, I'm going to look back and go, Oh, why didn't I do that? Why didn't I try that and then leave and my kids are also seeing me try new things and step out of my comfort zone. So it's like they're, they're seeing me do what I'm asking them to do. So that's a good thing. What's the smallest thing we can do today to start our shift towards self recreation? That is such a good question. You know,

1:59:51

I think in order to recreate or in order to get to the next place, you have to recognize your enough as you are right now. If you don't, then you're not able to actually get to the next place. Because you do have to recognize that you've accomplished things that you've made it to a certain place already to get to a place to even recreate anything.

2:00:14

But what if you're a mom, and you feel like I did an Instagram post on this? Where we sometimes when people say what do you do? And you say, Well, I'm just a mom. And my, the caption was basically talking about, well, you're not just a mom, you're a lot of things. Well, we

2:00:28

can remove just, I know, that's the problem. You know, a lot of us say you don't have to qualify, we don't have to qualify anything. Number one,

2:00:35

totally,

2:00:36

I think, you know, I think the first thing you can do if you really, really want to change something, and that could be at any stage in life, no matter how old you are, no matter what it is, is find somebody that can mentor you and inspire you. And you may not even know those people, they can be somebody you're listening to, in a podcast, they can be somebody that you're reading their book, they can be somebody, you're listening to their music, they can be somebody, but sometimes it is a great friend, or sometimes it's a business associate, or sometimes it's, but it's really, when you have the opportunity to have somebody who's done it before or done something. And whether they're successful at it or not, that has navigated that water before, it's a lot less scary.

2:01:25

Yeah, I love that I also put on my Instagram earlier in the week to write down on a post it note is there someone you know, personally, or someone on Instagram or wherever that's doing something that you want to be doing. And it's not being from an envious place, it's from a place of, she's similar to me, she's doing that I can do it too. It's more from like, a place of inspiration.

2:01:49

And I think when and then the responsibility of the person when the person reaches out to you and they want your support is to is to welcome that right and to, because then we keep the we keep that fluidity going, and then people feel good about it. So, you know, I think when we talked about my history and fashion and growing up in fashion, it was not at a time when people really supported each other. It was very much a time when people were not excited if you were coming up underneath that for sure. And my dad has always been somebody that was super supportive of people coming up in the industry. And I think that he definitely paid that forward with me. And I think having somebody that you can talk to, and then also being that person for somebody also will help you rise to the next level.

2:02:37

I agree with you 100%. And I think even in this whole midlife project, having so many women either reach out to me that they want to be on the podcast, or know how I started the podcast, or people that I reach out to like you and I'm like, Hey, I don't know you, but I would love to interview you as an expert in cell free creation and your skincare, you know, entrepreneurial company, and having people say yes, I mean, not every time people can say yes, but when you can, you should. And you and I agree. I agree. And I think No, that is awesome.

2:03:14

But also recognizing that asking takes a lot more than saying yes, generally.

2:03:20

Yeah. And knowing that the person on the other side is like, oh,

2:03:25

literally, generally quick, they're quivering. And they're going, Oh, my gosh, I've just asked this person. And I will also say the other thing is, is that to remember that there's a difference between being persistent and annoying. Yeah. And it's like sometimes when people are in midlife, you just have to like keep keep kind of getting in front of them. Definitely stalk them doesn't mean that you, you know, do crazy things. But it means that you just make sure you keep showing up and people respond to showing up. That's the other thing you can do to actually move yourself along, is start showing up for yourself, but also just even to to events that are related to what you're interested in. I

2:04:04

mean, like if I was interested in you, and you're doing an Instagram Live and I want you to see me then I'm like, Oh, I'm going to go on the live and I'm going to ask a question or two and she's gonna see me and then maybe I'll follow up with a DM or an email later, but it requires effort on your part. You can I know there's this huge movement of manifesting your dreams like yes, I agree with you know that too. But there's also putting action steps out into the world where you actually have to take a step take a step and not just think about it.

2:04:41

I wholeheartedly agree, I believe in I believe I am a master manifester. But I also the way I approach it is I refer to it as dream it map at work it and I feel like you have to know what you're going after. But you also have to do the work to get there. A lot of that manifestation conversation is also about unblocking, but that's work like to really unblock yourself is work

2:05:08

so much work. That's what this whole year has been about for me where it's been so meaningful and amazing at the same time. It's like a shit shovel. You know, it's like I'm talking to my life coach, I'm thinking about things I'm, you know, writing them down. I'm refining, I'm questioning and that's really hard. It's very hard. It's a lot of inner work. It's not just like, you wake up one day and you're like, Okay, got it all figured out. One it's,

2:05:36

the more you do it, the easier it becomes. But it's certainly important to recognize that it's ever changing.

2:05:45

So good. Oh my God, we could talk for hours. Okay, now that we have shoveled our shit for today with Kylie, I hope you have loved Kylie's golden shit life nuggets as much as I have. And my new skin care director. I've loved it. I have loved digging deep with you with our golden shovels today on this podcast, get ready because I'm going to be your next client. I need a glow do over animal asthma treatment and all of your products. If listeners want to find you, where can they find you.

2:06:17

They can find us on our website. They can find us on Instagram, knockout beauty.com at knockout beauty, very simple. And we are there's a lot of us and we are here to support you.

2:06:30

Love it. Okay, I want everyone to think about what should they can start doing today. One small step. I want to thank highly for highlighting the tools and inspiration that helped us to continue to maintain our faces and recreate ourselves in the second half of life. And hence this podcast Kiley cavaco. wreck. Thank you so much. It was such a treat. Oh god. Okay, I'm gonna pause this