Episode 19 transcript

00:05

Hi, good peeps.

00:06

Welcome to the flexible neurotic podcast. You know that friend that you can call to ask anything? That's me. Dr. Sarah Milken. I'm known to my friends as the flexible, neurotic.

00:19

What does flexible neurotic even mean? Let me be neurotic while I take out my golden shovel to dig deep for all the golden nuggets in the hottest topics, from parenting, to education to neuroscience, and maybe even some beauty secrets. So we can all start living more flexibly. Come join us for edgy conversations with rad moms. Innovative thought leaders and well being practitioners helping you find that sweet spot between chaotic and chill. If you're craving that sweet spot, grab your golden shovel with me. You will walk away with nuggets you can start using today. Hi, good peeps. This is the next episode of the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken v flexible neurotic. Today I have an awesome guest. She's a mom of four. I could just stop right there. Like mom of four. I have two kids. I'm like oh my god. She's the founder and owner of Dynamo girl in New York City. A company inspired and built to strengthen young girls self esteem and sports and then expanded into puberty workshops for tweens, teens and parents. We're going to talk about that in depth later. Also, She's the author of uncertain parenting newsletter.

01:39

What a great title I mean, does it captured a better it says it all the beauty and bumps in raising teens and tweens. She is a sought after speaker and puberty for boys and girls and consults with nonprofits camps and sports leagues on how to authentically engage kids in their communities. Her name is Vanessa curl Bennett.

02:00

Hi, Vanessa. Hey,

02:02

thank you for having me. I'm so excited that you're here. I know we have a common friend Allison Marmor. Oh, I have to do a shout out to Alison.

02:12

And this talk has been on my list for a really long time. And I've just been waiting to dive into it. You're awesome. you simplify puberty information, as clunky and awkward as it is. You break it into categories that we as parents can digest, and you present questions and answers to puberty and parenting questions. And perhaps things that we didn't even want to know. But we have to know and should know, I can't get I cannot wait to get into this with you. And thank God My kids are at school finally. And they're not hearing bits and pieces of this because I'm already going to hear about it anyway. My intentions for this episode, were laid to being ready for puberty periods and post pandemic chats with our teenagers. This episode will touch on puberty specifics that might make us laugh or cringe or cry and discomfort. But this will not be a full puberty review. Because that would be a whole series. And if people need a full dive in on puberty, specifics and what to pack in a period pack,

03:21

they can definitely go to your online workshops. We're going to dive deep in how to help our teenagers re enter the real world from the pandemic in the midst of bodily and psychological roller coasters. We will talk about what Vanessa calls, faking it to make it faking it as a parent and pretending to be ready to have these awkward talks until you make it or you say pretend to have a chill tone voice which I'm not sure I've mastered.

03:51

Right?

03:52

Are we ever really ready?

03:54

No.

03:55

But Vanessa has specific strategies. I love them. So get ready. I'm clearly going to dig deep with my golden shovel to find us answers to get through post pandemic puberty push. Oh my god. This episode is intended to get you thinking about the question Should we should be asking ourselves in our teens, this episode has golden nuggets for you to take to your dinner table or maybe privately into another room depending on your situation. So Vanessa, let's get started. Right. We know that our childhoods obviously impact how we raise our kids, whether we decide we're going to do the same things or different things. So give us just like a quick snapshot of how you're raising your kids versus the way you were raised and you know, kind of give us an idea of what went on. So it is important for me to acknowledge that I actually grew up in a house where puberty was talked about where sexuality was talked about my mom was very much ahead of the curve. And even though I grew up in a very traditional suburb, she was fairly avant garde for that community. So my little brother and I, our favorite bedtime reading was what's happening to me, and where did I come from my god would have sleepovers with friends. And we would all huddle up on one of our beds and read the books together. So I'm not a poster child, for someone who's overcorrecting or changing course of what I was brought up with. I'm really someone who's just kind of continuing the process. And I think it's really important to acknowledge where we come from, for this conversation, as you said, I have colleagues who grew up with no conversations about puberty or sexuality, and colleagues who fall somewhere in between. So understanding where we start in this conversation is really, really critical.

05:56

I totally agree with you. Because for me, I grew up in a house where my dad would have talked about it all day long if my mom wasn't horrified by it, and my mom's gonna be listening to this episode. And she will agree. Like, she didn't talk about anything. She just sort of like assumed, okay, smart kids information, like, around like, somehow, it's all going to be figured out not to say, you know, she didn't buy me maxi pads and tampons, of course. But there was just more of like, she's just more reserved. And then there comes me where I'm like, my daughter walks in the room. I'm like, Wow, you are on fire. Have you gotten your period this month? And she's like, you have to stop. So in our house, we're talking about like, manscaping pubes periods. And I said, I'm like Marin schools actually going in person, like, do you have like, your period stuff in your backpack? She's like, Mom, I can't handle this. So in our house, it's like, everything is fair game, right. And in a public way, it is 100,000 times different than the way I grew up.

07:03

So and it's interesting, because I'm married to an Englishman who did not grow up talking about these things. And so if you're raising children with a partner, it's also about Where's your partner's comfort level? And how do you expect their boundaries and their willingness or unwillingness to talk about stuff publicly or just talk about stuff together versus keeping it more private? And, you know, my instinct is always to talk about everything all the time. Every setting, I know my husband Jeremy's like, why do we Why are we talking about poop at the dinner table? I'm like, Well, why not? Why not? at the dinner table? Yeah, on a meal in my house. That's what I'm talking about.

07:46

Exactly. And now there's like a rule, or we're not allowed to talk about poop somehow at the dinner table. And I'm like, and everyone, like, agrees with my husband, because they just want to take away the awkwardness. And I'm like, sorry, I'm not following those rules. Oh, my God. We talked about vaginas all day long. And my daughter is like, horrified. But I think her like her friends come over. And one of them's like, Yeah, I just can't figure out the tampon thing. So I so I found myself in the kitchen, kind of doing a diagonal squat, and showing them how you like sort of have to like, get it in the hole on the diagonal. And one of her friends recorded, it was like, that is like the best funniest thing I've ever seen. And my daughter is standing there, like, What the fuck is happening in this kitchen? But their conversations that we have to have? Yeah,

08:34

I mean, critical. The 45 degree angle for tampon insertion is a critical piece of information that no, I'm so glad you said. Yes. Because that's the squat. I was doing the diagonal squat in the kitchen. And I said to mare, and I'm like, You underestimate how hard that diagonal squat is for a lot of girl. And so many girls assume that a tampon goes straight up, and then it's uncomfortable and it hurts and it doesn't work. And then they feel like they're screwing up, they're doing it wrong. It's not going to work. There's something wrong with them. There's something broken, right? It creates all of this internal narrative for them, which is not good for anybody. And so that like critical piece of information that I have to go in on an angle is really really

09:25

I know, and then I was like, well, and if it doesn't like slide in that easily, there's like different ones you can buy that have like the extra sort of glide ID feature and they're all looking at me like, well, no one told us this, you know, so although my daughter is slightly horrified, I think she deep down sort of appreciates the information. Sure she does. And I'm sure she's actually really proud to have a mom who's willing to talk about this stuff. Yeah, who's willing to do like a diagonal squat and in terms of the husband situation like my husband is 1000 10 times more reserved than I am. He's like, Why the fuck are you talking about this? This is so awkward. And I'm like, Well, are you gonna talk to Jake about porn? Or am I gonna talk? And he's like, Well, um, so what ends up happening is, I bring up the topic, Jeremy's in the room like a potted plant. Like I call him like a dead salmon. And then like he chimes in at like the last second with like a smirk. But at least he feels like he participated in the conversation, right?

10:32

I mean, everybody has a different comfort level. We don't we're not all born with the same willingness to have all conversations and we don't die with the same comfort level, right? We all have our own journey in terms of what we feel comfortable talking about. And it's not a coincidence, right? That you are like an extreme extrovert, and he is more introverted, right. That's how relationships correct we balance each other out. I think the fact that he's in the room, yes. And he's present for the conversation speaks volumes, much more than maybe what he even comes out of his mouth. Yes. And my goal in my own family, and also the goal that we talk about in our workshops is, is that if possible, it shouldn't be, too if you have a family with two parents or two adults, raising your kids. It's great if they can both be in the room. They don't all have to everyone has to say something each time, but to be present, I think is really important. Yes. And it's like you don't have to talk just be well, and it's also like having your own conversations. I mean, that negotiation between you and your partner doesn't have to happen, like, in front of your kid, while you're talking about like hardcore porn, it can be. I mean, you can't always control when these conversations come up. But you can say, Hey, I think it's time that we talked to our kid about porn, like, do you want to take the lead? Do you want me to take the lead, and you also set your expectations, I would really like you to be there. Or it's not that important to me. If you're there, you know, having hashing out those kind of negotiations, ideally, not in front of your kids is really important. And like, that's a partnership, right? A partnership is about navigating each other's boundaries and comfort levels and kind of meeting each other where you are, rather than like, forcing your partner or dragging your partner along behind you.

12:31

We've been there done that too, right? Yes. Now in terms of build, you talked about in some of your workshops, like building the talking muscle, like for me, do I want or feel 100% comfortable talking about like porn and masturbation with my kids? Of course, I doubt. But I feel like you said in one of your workshops that we have to build our talking muscle because it's never going to get easier. And as they get older, it almost gets weirder.

13:04

Right? I mean, the longer you don't talk about an issue, the harder it becomes to talk about it. So and that's true. You know, that's true. any topic. The reason that it's important to talk about it is multilayer, right. So part of it is there's information our kids need to know about their bodies and about the world around them. And we cannot assume particularly in pandemic that someone else is going to give them that information schools have had to cut back on health, education, sex education, there's not time in the day, there's not time on virtual school, so we can no longer assume it can be outsourced to someone else. It's on, it's on us. So that's number one. There's basic facts and information they need to know about their bodies and about the world in which they're living. The second thing they need to know is that there is safety involved in understanding their bodies, their safety in terms of protecting themselves, right. And there's also safety in terms of just their physical health. Like if things aren't working as they should or things aren't operating as they should, they should know how to be how to express it, how to name those body parts, right? Like your vulva is actually really different than your vagina. And so I'm not even sure most adults know that based on my vagina episode and all the messages that I got. I'm not sure everyone's 100% completely agree. And I think that's down to the education that we got. A lot of us were never taught the distinction between a vulva and the vagina. But if you go to your Brazilian waxing ladies, and you say, you know, wax my vagina, you actually a don't have hair on your vagina because the opening to the vagina doesn't have hair, but maybe you want them to wax your boba. Right? Like, yes, you right? Right. really be. I mean, that's like that's kind of basic, everyday life that seems unimportant. ridiculous, but it's actually important to know. And how about the fact that there's three holes? Like I don't even know, like, a lot of kids don't know that there are three holes. Right? So one of the most common questions we get is does your period come out of the place where you pee? That's a really, really common question. So we teach kids their three holes, the urethra, the opening to the vagina and the anus, and they love it. When you say enough, right? Like that. It's totally fair game. They laugh. What we do in our workshops, is we actually asked the girls when we're doing female, biologically female kids, we're like, okay, who wants to say vagina, and you always get like one girl who raised her hand to be like, and then you get someone else and we're like, come on, vagina, and then you've got another one. It's like, and then by the end, we have like this little chorus of little voices, you know, some are still whispering which is totally fine. And some are shouting into the rooftops, which is amazing. But it's all about the comfort of saying those words out loud, which removes the shame from them. Yeah. And there's nothing wrong. We get giggles we get red faced and we get giggles from

16:17

adult

16:18

100% 100 minutes.

16:20

Oh, awkward. No. 100% The other thing about teaching about vulva or not teaching that vulva is the glitter is part of the vulva. Right? You have the labeija you have the openings to the urethra, the vagina and the anus. And you have the clearest and most kids are not taught that the either a the clearest exists or what the clearest does. And it's kind of amazing that clutters the sole job is to provide pleasure, right? It's a, it's a bundle of nerve endings. It's like 1000 nerves or something, I don't know anything incredible. And it's really important for females to know that they have a part of their body whose only job is to provide pleasure. And that's all you have to do. That's all you have to say it's like, and this it's only job is to make you feel good when you touch it, or someone else touches it. And that's it. And they're like, totally Matter of fact, they're interested in but they're not ashamed or embarrassed. And we let parents know that we're going to talk about that. Because like, why should we have parts of our bodies that feel good that no one tells us about? Right? But what do you find? I mean, as an educator, and as a parent of four, I think you have three boys and girl I do. So how's your daughter? She's almost 13 Okay, so did you I don't know what it is like, for some reason I feel like with my son, like it was so much easier to talk about porn and masturbation and all of that stuff and like so much more awkward with my daughter. But I don't know why. So, why because we live in a patriarchal shame as a patriarchal society where Yeah, and and boys are expected to find pleasure and gratification and their sexual relationships. Yeah. And females aren't. I mean, that's the root of it, right? It's like, Yeah, everybody knows that a penis, not only peas and ejaculates, but they also know it feels really good. But nobody tells females that their clitoral feels really good or, or often people don't, don't tell them, or they end up having sex for years with never achieving an orgasm because they can't have the vaginal orgasm, or they haven't yet but they don't know that the clearest could lead to the orgasm so much more easily, right? So no one tells them because it's a vestige of a culture, you know, centuries of cultures where that wasn't the goal of sex and women's pleasure wasn't the goal, although I will say, cuz you'll appreciate this in the Talmud, in the book of Jewish rabbinic law, there is an obligation for a male to provide his female partner with pleasure. And that is like written into the rabbinic law. So it's not that all cultures dismissed pleasure, but over, you know, over history throughout history, I mean, you know, there are cultures where there is genital mutilation and yeah, females clearances are removed. So that's an extreme version. But the just the shamefulness and the expectation that a girls don't masturbate that the girls or females that aren't interested in porn or don't watch porn see that they don't deserve or an interested in sexual pleasure. Those are all barriers to us as adults teaching kids about these things, because again, what baggage are we bringing into the converse? Totally and be there, them having their own sexual pleasurable lives either on their own or with a partner. God, it's just so much. And now I think with the pandemic, I know you've talked about how a lot of kids have gone through some of these puberty or sort of teenage topics during the pandemic, in the safety of their own home, right. So a boy gets interaction every 90 minutes, but he's in front of a computer and nobody sees. But now he's suddenly back at school in the classroom, like, Oh, my God, I have a bone or what do I do, or girl who's gotten her period during the pandemic, and hasn't had to worry about making noise in the bathroom with her Maxi pad or tampon? And now she's at school, like, Oh, shit, how do I carry this to the bathroom? without anyone seeing or anyone hearing? So can you talk about that? Like, what are teenagers saying?

20:57

And what's happening? Yeah,

20:58

I mean, so one of the upsides of the pandemic for kids who are in puberty or have started to go through puberty, during the pandemic, is they have actually been like, really safe at home going through these changes. And some of the pressures that exists for kids, when they are going through puberty and out in the world have actually been removed, right. So things like getting your period, you don't have to worry about being at sleepovers, you don't have to worry about being in school, you have everything you need right at home, or, like you mentioned, sort of unexpected directions, right? Like, you don't have to worry about it, you're on zoom, no one can see your action or, you know, wet dreams. If you are at home and you're not at sleepaway camp and you've had your first foot dream, okay, fine. So so you know, you wash your sheets, and you get over it, nobody sees. So, I think there's been a lot of safety, voice changing, you know, kids voices are changing, they're not out and about, they had early on zoom for a few hours. So all of those things have felt really safe and comfortable. And I think it's okay to acknowledge the ways in which the pandemic have actually, like, been comforting and felt really safe.

22:08

I totally agree. I mean, my daughter's in eighth grade, and I'm like, dude, you missed a lot of eighth grade bullshit. You know what I mean? eighth grade, like the worst year ever, and the least like, you know, I'm not saying you got 100% free from it, but you missed a lot of the day to day stuff,

22:28

right? A lot of the stress a lot you know, you don't worry about your period leaking through your underwear and your shorts. You can just like be on a zoom and realize you are How about like the swim unit? Oh, God. Alright, because you're

22:41

born. Yeah, yeah. I know. So we have like the swim unit. So like, all the girls were like, Well, I have a male PE coach. Like, I either tell him I have my period and just like, get it over with and I don't have to swim, or I don't say anything. And then I have to swim with my period. And I'm like, at a certain point, I'm like Marin, you have to fucking decide I can't decide what for you. And I'm not emailing the teacher for you, because that's even weirder. So

23:08

pick aside and I will say so if you have a kid who's not comfortable using a tampon, there are bathing suits made by a company called Ruby love. And they have like an absorbent crotch. Oh, that like guys that? Yeah. Okay. So that's for kids, either who don't want to aren't comfortable using a tampon or culturally, it's not within the culturally acceptable to use a tampon or, you know, they maybe use a tampon and they wear the bathing suit. And it's great. My daughter has like a pair of bikini bottoms that have it. Then there's also the things underwear and next teen underwear a bunch of different period underwears, which also kind of helped with that worry about leaking? Because they am Yeah, kind of like a like a pat.

23:55

Yeah, I've bought a bunch of pairs for my daughter. I don't know if she actually wears them because she has like mastered the tampon on her own. But I don't know if she wears it In addition, or just in case because I think she's so over me having these honest conversations that she's like, I'm not talking about it with you. Like, I've got this under control. Like, I haven't had a problem just gonna keep on moving like, okay,

24:20

okay. And honestly, some kids are like that, like, they feel really confident and comfortable and really independent. And, like, ultimately, that's our goal, right? Our goal is that our kids can manage it on their own. And so if she called on it, and she's not kind of covering up worries or challenges and not sharing them with you, if she's got it, then like let her let her go for it. Totally. Yeah, I'm like, she'll text me and find me if she has a problem. I know. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Sure. Now, what are the two types of worries that most kids are having in this sort of middle school high school zone, so As kids emerge, I think there's, there's kind of a couple of universes of worries, right? There's the, for the kids who are emerging within new bodies, the kids who've like really transformed in puberty during this time, maybe with weight gain, maybe with breasts, maybe with kind of hair, and acne. And acne is a big big one, which, frankly, was great for because you could kind of Yeah, I did in a way. And now it's harder. And the masks are really hard on the skin. And so, kids who might not even normally have acne, have acne. So, you know, a lot of the physical manifestations of emerging from pandemic in a new body with new skin, with kind of body parts sticking out in new ways with hair growing in places that they didn't have hair before. I mean, that's a lot to navigate. And on that front, you know, logistics for kids are really, really, really important. So how do I remove body hair? Right? Like, what's, what's safe? What's okay? What's most effective? What's gonna like, work for me long term? That's a long, that's a big conversation we have in my house, like, you know, do I shave, do I wax? I thought I'm an expert on that. I mean, we've we've done it all. So I'm not I've never lasered so I have yet to, I don't have my daughter lasering. Like, I don't want her to do anything that I haven't done yet.

26:30

And also, I'll talk to you all talk you off that leg. Well, I'm going to do it next week. So we can have like,

26:38

I did my bikini like 150,000 years ago. But I have very light hair, like on my arm right leg. So I never had to deal with that. But my daughter has darker hair. So she I'm like you're going to get waxed every month. It's super expensive. It's not cheap. And I'm like we'd be better off investing in the lasering that takes you know, whatever, eight to 10 sessions, but then the pandemic came in. So she's been lasering. But she has like more hair to deal with and darker here.

27:09

So that's my situation. And then also the machinery is so much more current now. It doesn't even hurt. When I did my bikini I would have to like numb my bikini. It was a mother, I cannot even explain to you the level of pain it was so if you want to ignore it, if you want to have any sense of how extensive my quote bikini line is, it like extends halfway down my thigh and I call it the Vanessa because it's like so especially unique.

27:42

Oh my God, you're so funny. No, you have to laser that. I mean, it will take you like 10 sessions and probably a year to do it. But it'll be life changing

27:53

I am, there's like a lot of self care that's gonna happen in the next several weeks. I'm an expert on self care. So we can talk about that offline. So but it's questions like hair removal skin, you know if they've had their periods in pandemic, but never add a pandemic like talking to the logistics. It's amazing how reassured kids feel when you talk about logistics. So for example, if you have a child who didn't have her period before pandemic, and is now just returning to school for the first time, maybe in a year, it's not only about packing and period pack, which is and making sure she knows how to use every item in her period pack and has like an extra pair of underwear, an extra pair of leggings and a backpack. It's also like, where do you throw it out? And does your school have receptacles in each of the stalls in the bathroom? Or at the very least a garbage can in the bathroom? So one of the things we do in our puberty workshops is we ask the girls like, hey, do you have little garbage? kinos little metal garbage cans in your stalls in the bathroom? And some of the girls who are in schools that end in like fifth or sixth grade will say, Oh, we don't have those. Oh, interesting. So we have this little army of a social justice activists who are like lobbying for those little garbage cans in their school bathrooms because Hello fourth and fifth and sixth grade girls get their periods and they never asked my kids that now because well because now with the pandemic, they're not letting the kids use the multi stall bathrooms. So they're assigned to single you know, use restroom right? So that I can't even imagine because the thought of like how much urine is on that toilet. And our daughters have to use at the same time is not or think about this. I'm I'm a girl going to the bathroom and I know that there's a male outside waiting. I know From after me, you could have an anxiety attack. If I know I'm taking out a tampon, like what do I do with? How many rolls of toilet paper? Am I going to use to wrap up that tampon? In order to throw it out? Yeah, I mean, there's tons of logistics that kids worry about, by the way boys worry about logistics to it's not just girls. And it's like taking your shit and then having a girl walk into the bathroom next. I mean, honestly, about just like the energy they spend finding the right bathroom in with my kid. Like if you ask my 16 year old son like he knows all the secret bathroom 100%. They have like a master's degree in finding Yeah.

30:44

That much time on your homework, like, Oh my god, he'd be like a Rhodes Scholar. Yeah. Sure. I mean, now, how do you as a parent, and as an educator, I mean, there's people like us who are like, okay, let's talk about your PTO. Let's talk about manscaping. And we're just gonna lay it out there. But if you're a more normal parent, who is probably a little bit more reserved, or maybe feels a little embarrassed, like, how do you begin to get comfortable? Or do you just have to fake it? Like, how do you do it?

31:19

So a friend of mine who struggled with depression for a long time said to me, and this is I think, I don't know if it's part of the 12 step programs, but you fake it till you make it. Right. I didn't I wish I had coined that phrase. I did not I credit now, but it but you brought it to puberty, I brought it to puberty. So So most of the majority of people aren't comfortable, right? They're not like us, where they're, you know, like, hey, what, you know, Woody, what are you using your manscape around tonight? Let's talk about. But it's still really important that we talk to our kids about this stuff, right? It's we talked about how it's factual. It's about safety. It's about self knowledge. It's about health, right? There's all sorts of reasons why our kids need to know this information. Having said that, that doesn't mean it's going to be easy for most people to have that conversation. So for folks who don't just like want to jump in the car and be like, so vaginal discharge discuss? Yeah. Are we used? Were you itchy today? Or did that kind of subside a little bit? Yeah. Where are you in my house last night is like that. Oh,

32:34

no, no, but we've had so many of those conversations. I'm like, Well, is it like a pubic hair itch? Or is it like a Bernie edge? Right? And my kids are like, shut the fuck up, move on. But they know now like, if it's just like, a quick thing, they're like, oh, maybe I should take in a zone, you know, which is over the counter thing? Oh, no. But first, both my teenagers were like, I'm not taking like, I'm not taking a bow. But now that they've taken a few times, they're like, oh, that like made my pee feel much better. And that whole feeling is gone. And now I don't even have to address this anymore. And by the way, they don't

33:11

have to talk about stuff, the way you talk about stuff. But what you're doing is you're giving them knowledge, you're giving them knowledge in a way that's authentic to you. It may not be authentic to them, but you're still imparting the information that they need. So we're like, forget about people like us. Mm hmm. For people who find it really hard to talk about this stuff, who maybe didn't grow up with adults talking to them about it, who maybe never had an education about puberty or sex, who maybe grew up in a culture where not only was it not talked about, but it was like deeply frowned upon. For people like that. I love starting with a book, an article, a podcast, right? It's a talking point, it's not a direct question. I'd like to say you call this you call this something don't know. I like to say it's like coming in through the side door, right? Yeah. You're not going to come in through the front door, because that feels too confrontational and too intense. You're going to come in through the side door, which is frankly easier for your kid and easier for yourself if it's something that is hard. So let me give you an example. You want to have a conversation with your 12 year old son about porn, right? We've been in a pandemic, kids have been on screens for, you know, hours and hours and hours and hours, the chenla either seeking it out or accidentally stumbling upon it are at almost 100%. So let's say I grew up in a household that didn't talk about these things. I'm not comfortable with porn. I might not even know very much about porn myself. I can say, Hey, I there was an article in The New York Times about porn. I'm wondering, do you know anything about porn, right? Because any good educator and psychologists will say you have to make sure you define your terms. Before you start talking about so, Elisa pressmen said she was like casually asking tweens about porn. And she then she realized they didn't even know like what the term was, she had already, like opened Pandora's in it and then realize she hadn't even like, made it clear what porn is or like what pornography is. So you want to make sure you define the terms, but to use to use like a kind of a neutral starting point, like a newspaper article or podcast, or a chapter in a book that you read or something like, Hey, I was talking to Sarah the other day. And she was telling me that her daughter is feeling X, Y, or Z. And I'm just wondering, like, have you been feeling that? Or I, you know, listen to this podcast, and they were talking about erections. And I realized, I've never talked to you about erection. Like, I'm wondering if you know what that is.

35:55

It definitely takes the awkwardness away when you sort of throw something else under the bus 100%. So you're not just walking in like, Hey, dude, let's talk about porn. I'm like, Oh, I was talking to my friend, Allison. And she said that, you know, there was this article that was talking about porn or vaping. And like, these were the takeaways like, what do you and that was the other thing that I liked about your approaches. You ask them what they know about it, right? Before you tell that you give them like an entire dissertation on it.

36:28

Right? Because you want to know what their starting points, right? If you if you start the conversation at sort of 75 and they're really sitting at 25%? Yeah, there's a whole section of information you're going to so you want to know where they start. And sometimes they know a lot more than we think they they've gotten information and in good ways, and then scary ways. So you want to you want to start the conversation with things like hey, I'm wondering what you know about or have you ever heard the word x? Or have you ever come across the term y right like that? Just to kind of feel them out, engage where they are? You don't want to start the conversation with? Have you ever seen porn? What have you seen? Right? You're gonna be in sex addiction anonymous tomorrow, right? Right. So it's you don't want to go at them directly and you want it to be gentle. And you want to approach it with curiosity, and when they answer you, don't freak out. Take a deep breath. And then clarify.

37:36

peeps, you just listened to part one of this episode with Vanessa Grove Bennett parenting and teenage puberty expert. I love this episode with Vanessa so much. I neurotically asked her a million things about parenting through teen puberty in a post pandemic world and our second half of lives Vanessa and me, part two is up next. In part one, we dug up some golden nuggets with Vanessa. She is so smart and so hilarious. In the second part we will talk about parenting do overs showing her teens that making mistakes is okay. conversations with our teens don't always need to be face to face and having the quote talks continuously throughout our teens. Yours is so important and how we need to discuss and gauge where our teens are at when it comes to porn, sex masturbation, and they're changing bodies because sometimes when we're about to have these huge talks, we're giving them much more information than they need. And Vanessa gives us tips on how to do that. You can find Vanessa on Instagram at Vanessa croal Bennett V A n e SSA k r o l l o v e n n e TT

Part 2

00:05

papes This is part two of the three part episode with Vanessa Crowell Bennett. We talk about parenting do overs. Yes, we as parents can have do overs in some of our parenting mistakes, and we're showing our teenagers that making mistakes is okay. Conversations don't always need to be face to face with our teenagers. Sometimes Vanessa says, depending on the topic, we can send a kid a text or we could say, Hey, I just listened to this podcast and this woman was talking about X, Y, or Z. What do you know about that? Or we can leave an article for them to read on their desks. It's all about discussing and gauging where your teen is at when it comes to topics like porn, sex, masturbation, and their changing bodies. We don't want to give our kids more information than they need at a particular age. Vanessa tells us all about it. I heard you talk about your 10 year old and your whole discussion with him on Oh, yeah. So will you take us through like those six sort of steps that you did with him? Because I felt like it was so basic, but so genius.

01:10

So I he's almost 11 and it was a few months ago, and the average age for boys have exposure to porn. This is pre pandemic, so we don't even know what the research is gonna

01:20

not even imagine. Yes.

01:22

So I can't the average age is about 11. And he was kind of approaching 11. So I realized I hadn't had the conversation with him and the kid is spending hours and hours and hours on screens. So I said to him, Hey, buddy, I'm wondering if you have ever heard of the word poor? And he was like, Oh, yeah, I mean, granted, he's the youngest of four with their brothers and their teeth. So he's an expert on everything. He knows everything long before he should. And he said, Oh, yeah. And I said, Oh, what do you know about it? And he said, Well, I searched it up on Pornhub. I was like, okay, and inside, I'm like, dying inside dying. I'm like, Oh, my God, I failed my child. I'm the worst,

02:09

delinquent. And he's a porn addict.

02:12

You probably saw like people having sex with like, giraffes, and elephants. Oh, my goodness, I'm dying. So I said to him, okay, but even though I'm dying inside, I'm like, deep breaths. no judgment, no freaking out. So I said, Oh, okay. Well, you know, what did you think of it? And he said, Well, it's kind of weird. I said, Okay, he wasn't the same as the sex in the Ace Ventura movies. And I was like, oh my god. Here's reference point for sex. As Jim Carrey. I can only imagine, like bizarre facial expressions, like, the weirdest sex scene, probably ever. And I might have to go back and watch Oh, that's what I remember. I have to go back. Watch them. So I said, Oh, that's interesting. I said, so just so you know, so I now know where he is. I know he's seen it. I know he sought it out. I know, he's comparing it to something that I have allowed him to watch, which is the a centaur movies, which I'm not even sure I realized had sex in them. But that was like when I showed my son Bridget Jones's Diary at seven and forgot. There's like, all this talk about anal sex. Oh, my god, that was Sarah. That's a Sarah, that was like a great pair. So I know where he is. I know what he knows, I know what he sought out. And now it's my opportunity to give him one or two pieces of information before the conversation. So my decision was to make sure he knows that the sex that one sees in porn is not real. And that it's played by actors and actresses,

03:57

who are getting paid to do weird

03:58

they're getting paid to do it. And that then that is different than what happens between two people when they are being intimate. And so I told him it not in so many words as I just use, but I did say to him, Hey, just so you know, the sex and pornography is not real, and these actors are being paid. And that's actually really different. The sex and pornography looks really different. And I said, if you have any other questions, I want you to come and ask me, I'm not going to freak out. I don't know. I'm gonna get mad at you. But it's really like, it's not actually something that I want you watching. Now, here's the interesting part. on a walk a few days later, he brought up himself, he said, you know, anime is pretty sexist. He watches a lot of anime. And I said, What makes you say that? And he said, Well, first of all the feet the women are always dressed in a really sexy way and the men aren't. And he said sometimes anime characters are reading pornography. And I said, How do you know what's going on? And he said, because they're looking at stuff with naked people, and sometimes character's clothes getting blown off when they're fighting someone else. So in a way, the pornography the hard, awkward, semi forced conversation about pornography actually led me to a much more important and profound conversation with him about anime, which is a kind of media that he consumes, all of the time, the porn hub looking at up was a kind of a one off for now, right? Thankfully, for now, right, thankfully, animais, he clearly has been repeatedly exposed to their version of kind of sex or sexiness, and we have been processing. And so the porn conversation led me to have a really useful conversation about other places where sexuality and sexism was like, kind of part of the culture and how was he gonna navigate that aspect?

06:03

Yeah, I love that story. Because I feel like a lot of your teaching talks about how parents are at the basis of parenting, from your perspective. And I agree completely, because I try to live it myself, I'm not great at it or perfect at it. But if the basis of it, you're wanting to connect with your children, and you have to realize that as much as we want these to be one and fucking done conversations, that's not the fact those are not the facts. Like, these are a series of conversations that are building over time. And we, as awkward as it is, we were the only ones who are going to be right for our children at the end of the day. And it is our responsibility to not just have what we used to call the talk. It's a series of ongoing conversations, to establish this connection. So kids, our kids feel like they can actually come to us, like my daughter hates talking about vaginas, and whatever, but she knows if her vagina is itchy or done, my son knows that blah, blah, blah, they can come to me, I'm not going to judge them. I'm not going to shame them. I'm just going to ask them, you know, what they think is too many questions get to the bottom of it medically or psychologically, and be done with it?

07:22

Yeah, I mean, I think first of all, you know, it's not just the talk for a bunch of reasons. One is that as kids get older, the information and the conversations we can have with them become increasingly sophisticated, and increasingly conceptual, and also age appropriate, right. So what you're going to talk about with a 10 year old is really different than a 13 year old or an 18 year old. So that's part of the reason you're going to revisit conversations over time, depending on their maturity and their exposure to different experiences and their like literal physical growth. The second reason is that kids don't want to sit and be lectured for an hour, right and to in to impart the information we need to impart it takes time. And so choosing I mean, you have your golden nuggets, choosing the golden nuggets with respect to growing up. It's so much more powerful and so much more effective. If we give them small pieces of information over time. If they want to keep talking, we can keep talking, right? If your kid is still asking you questions and wondering and noticing, keep the conversation going. If there are certain pieces of information you have to give them, right, you have to tell them hey, listen, if you pee, and it hurts, I need you to tell me, right? Yeah. Or if your vaginal discharge is not clear and white, but it's kind of yellow and chunky. That's really important. And smelly. That's really smelly animations for me to know. Right? So like, yeah, those kinds of conversations, you just need to get the information across them. They don't have to engage. They don't have to do backflips because they love talking to you so much about their pee hurting or the vaginal discharge, oh my God, they are still in the room. They are still listening, their backs can be turned to you. Their heads can be on a pillow, they can be petting the dog. They can be five feet away from you. But if they're still in the room, they're still listening. And there are certain things that we have to tell our kids no matter what. The other thing that I would say is that it doesn't always have to be. So one thing that we love to talk about in our workshops is the idea of trusted adults and who are our kids trusted adults besides us? So is it an aunt or an uncle? Is it a grandparent? Is it a guidance counselor at school? Is it a therapist? Is it a coach or camp counselor right? The more trusted adults our kids have, the more people they can go to who they trust and we trust to give them good impression. That advice, the better. It's like, How amazing is that? If they have four adults they can go to with questions and worries, right? It's so

10:08

critical, amazing, amazing. Oh, even if it's like a friend's parent, like I know, with my kids friends, like, a lot of them would feel comfortable snapping me or texting me. I mean, maybe not about something hugely personal on the phone, but they would definitely ask me something in person. And sometimes

10:26

we get that question like in our workshops that are parents who are kind of that go to adult for lots of kids, not just their own children, right, though they have their kids friends will come to them. Yeah. And sometimes it's like a no brainer, right? Oh, I'm gonna answer that question. And sometimes it's a kid who is like, Can you tell me what sex is? Right? That's a hard, and this is a, you know, a nine year old. So for parents who are put in that situation, you can say something like, Hey, you know what, I love that you came to me and asked me that question. But I want to check with your parents to make sure it's okay with them that I answer that question, because at

11:06

this point, because you can't take it's like telling someone else's kid that Santa grass doesn't eat right, sorry,

11:13

honey, there's no Tooth Fairy, get over it. Right? Like it? Yeah, sorry. So like your, your approach your value system, all of those things might be different than someone else's. You, your kid who's that kid's age might be the youngest. But in that family, that kid might be the oldest, they haven't gotten there yet, right? There's all sorts of reasons why. But validating the question. And making sure the kid knows that there's no shame and there's nothing wrong with asking the question, it just may be not the right time or place or person to be answering that question. And that's super, super critical. Right? for our kids. I mean, my daughter asked me a couple of years ago how old I was when I lost my virginity. And it was, you know, bedtime, of course, like, that's all those conversations have. When I was like, on my very last thread of functioning, all I wanted to do was like, go watch Netflix, have a glass of wine. And, you know, I sort of got, and I thought about it, and I said, you know, I'm so glad that you feel comfortable asking me that question. You can honestly ask me any question. But I may not choose to answer it. And in this case, I'm actually going to keep that information private. But maybe in a few years, we can talk about it again. Right. So I validated her question. I validated her curiosity. And I also protected my own privacy, because it wasn't the moment for me to share. She was, you know, nine at the time, it was not the time for me to talk. Right?

12:52

It's not like she's 15 and potentially considering it or whatever, like where you think it could happen tomorrow, and she has this boyfriend or whatever. But as a parent, like you're saying, you have to use your own intuition and best judgment as to is this a pressing issue right now? Like, is my kid going to a party and wondering if he can vape tomorrow? Or is this 11 o'clock at night? I have weird anxiety and I need to connect with a parent. So I'm opening Pandora's box right now. Right? I

13:23

watched a you know, an age inappropriate show, which is basically all shows. And you know, two teenagers were having sex and it got me wondering, oh, well, how old were my parents? So

13:35

Oh, my God, how about my daughter when she first started watching friends asked me what a threesome was. And I was like, what the Father a joke. My daughter got the flu

13:45

a couple of years ago and was home from school for like two weeks. She was like on the couch for two weeks. And she was all 10 seasons of friends. Like, I was like working I was kind of in and out. And then at one point, she was probably like, on season seven, there was some conversation about sex. And I was like, Oh my god, I had no memory that anyone

14:09

I didn't either I was like a threesome on friends.

14:12

I didn't even know they like a dress. I was just like, anxiously walk around the kitchen all the time. Like I had no memory of them actually. Talking about it. And so I think I Let her finish that because like at this point, you know, it's out of the bag. I may have. I may have actually said you know what, I need you to stop watching this because I I screwed up, right? I made a mistake. I let you watch it. And I'm realizing now it actually wasn't appropriate for you. And so we're going to like, shut this down. We're going to draw a line under it. And we're going to move past that. I think that may I have to check with her. That might have been maybe what I did or what I should have done but did that.

14:53

Yes. But that leads me into another topic that I wanted to ask you about. I know you talked about this concept called the do over. Yes. And I feel like it's gonna resonate with so many people because it just has to as a parent, especially as a parent of a teen where you sort of feel like you're in a clusterfuck half the time. So we you tell us kind of what the to kind of do overs are and how we can really use them, and be okay with it. So for those of us who spend their lives afraid of making mistakes, and I am one of our like, neurotic, yeah, that's why I'm the flexible, neurotic. So

15:32

you're, you're like embracing it. I still, I've had to do a lot of work, working with kids about mistakes to be able to, like, come to terms with my own mistake making, which is like, Oh, I don't make mistakes, like I'm eternally right and perfect, which is, of course, complete bullshit as Exactly.

15:53

Uh huh. My husband would just, you know, totally agree with you. Yes.

15:58

Well, and it's so with kids, there's a couple things, right. We need them to understand that making mistakes is, is totally okay. Partially because every child can pare it back to you. You learn from making mistakes. But as I learned, when I asked a group of eight year old girls, what does it feel like to make a mistake, they said to me, I want to hide, I want to run away, I feel ashamed, I feel disappointed. And so that gave me the information that they know how to pair it about that it's good to make mistakes. But when you dig a little bit deeper, like just beneath the surface, they are deeply uncomfortable and ashamed of making a mistake. So we all are imperfect, we all make mistakes. So the first thing is to show kids to model for kids that making mistakes, is totally okay. The second thing is that they need to understand that in the mistake making, there's opportunity for connection and closeness, right? We talked about having those lines of communication open. So showing our own humanity to our kids. Let me give you a perfect example. I was driving to visit a college with my oldest son. And he got food poisoning the night before we were going to do the tour and the information session. And we're in the hotel room in the middle of the night. It's like two in the morning and he's like rolling around groaning and I was like, Can you shut the fuck up and go to bed?

17:31

I'm really sick. I'm like, you're not sick. You're fine, right? Like Famous last words. You're not sick, you're fine. Your arms not broken. It's just spring, right? Famous last words. So q 30 seconds later when he's like retching into the toilet for like, you know, an hour. Fine. He's totally sick. I am. I rate because I've taken a day off work to drive four hours to go visit this college, which he is not gonna see which we have no further weekends to go visit it. This was pre pandemic. And I was like, fine, like, waste of time. So I go to the information session by myself. I go back and I'm like, Okay, well, do you think you can see the college now? And he's like, No, Mom, I'm like still puking my guts out. And I'm like, Okay, well, let's stay another night. He goes, Mom, I want to be in my own bed. I want to go home. At that point, I'm throwing things into my suitcase, slamming the bathroom door. And I'm like, Alright, let's go. And I like marched through the lobby of the hotel dragging my little wheelie suitcase with my we've all have deeply ill 17 year old son behind me. We get in the car. And I'm like, well, don't you want to just drive around the campus? And he's like, okay, mom. Sure, we can do that. Right. So I'm driving around the campus like a complete maniac. We get on the highway Two hours later, I stopped for gas. And I'm like, I am such an asshole. I am such an asshole. My poor child is like trying to keep the vomit down in his mouth so we can get home. And all I can think about is how annoyed I am that my time was wasted. And I can check this thing off my list. And it was like, we're never gonna come back and visit this school. And I looked at him and I was like, I am so so sorry. I'm so sorry that you don't feel well. I'm so sorry that I wasn't more sympathetic. I'm so sorry. I lost my temper. And he was like, it's okay, mom. I knew you just needed to calm down a little bit. And once you did, it would be totally fine. Right. So I circle back. I owned very specifically the ways in which I had been unkind or unfair or lacking in empathy. And my kid was able to hear that and to see that and to be and to meet me there right. Our kids are not always going to be able to say that Okay, Mom, I know you just need to calm down, sometimes they're going to come back to this and say, you were such a bitch, that was so hurtful. I need like, at least a day or two away from talking to you, right? They're not always going to be gracious and generous. But the more we model for them that making mistakes is okay, the more not only will they be comfortable making mistakes, but the more willing they will be to be forgiving of other people's mistakes, to be gracious, to be generous with us. So that's like my ultimate, ultimate do over. And I think there's all different ways to circle back with your kids, you might give them an incorrect piece of information, you might come down too hard on them, you might have failed to answer a question that they asked you because you were like, busy or stressed or working. So I think that there's all different kinds of ways to circle back. The important thing is that you do it is that you admit your mistake, and that you give them an opportunity to meet you again on on that topic.

21:03

I love your talk about the example you just gave us about your son and the do over because I feel like I'm doing do overs even in a mini way. Like yesterday, I picked up my daughter from school. And I could tell she had a lot to tell me just by like her face when she got in the car. But I had been waiting for this phone call that I had to answer. And I knew in the moment that it was like such a bad parenting move. And she got in the car and the phone rang and she put that face on like no way are you going to do a call right now. And I just mouthed her I'm so sorry. I have to. And her heart just melted because she had been waiting all day to tell me X, Y and Z. And I let her down. And so last night after dinner, I said, you know, Marin, I'm so sorry that I had to answer that call, you know, I've really been trying to be better about that. And it was just one of those calls that I had to take. And she kind of just looked at me. And she goes I know it's hard sometimes or whatever. And like she wasn't super psyched about it. And it wasn't like so so forgiving. But she understood that it was like a moment that I couldn't really take back but that I understood that maybe I hadn't been a superstar parent. And it's important for them to know that we can't be superstars all the time.

22:26

Just like they can't I mean, I also think it's like, sometimes it's in the saying, like it's not about their forgiveness, or their willingness to be like, it's okay. I mean, one of the things that we teach girls all the time, right? If you if you apologize to a girl, a little girl, let's say she's six or seven, What's she gonna say? What she on a pair? It's okay, it's fine. Don't yell. Right, right. So one of the things that we teach them is, you don't actually have to say it's okay, or it's fine. You can say thank you for your apology without, like, giving up whatever you're still feeling. And that's true of our good point, or teens, right? Like we can royally screw up and like, you made a choice yesterday, you knew it wasn't like the best choice, it was the choice you need to make in the time. And she took your apologies, as you say, she wasn't like psyched about it. But she was like, willing to kind of move past it. And that's really important that kids and adults don't feel like they automatically have to accept an apology or like, repress the feelings, that they're still having the anger, the hurt the sadness that is brought up by someone else's behavior.

23:42

Yeah, and I think that I mean, even just as a parent, and as a person, myself, it's teaching ourselves and our kids to be okay with the discomfort. It's like, you didn't get tagged in a post, somebody didn't like your post, you didn't get as many comments as whatever. And just like being okay with the fact that your kid or even myself as an adult, like, we're uncomfortable with that, because we so automatically as parents don't want our kids to be in that discomfort. We tried to say everything we can to take it away, right? That's right. But then we're not teaching them resilience, like there's gonna be bullshit all day long in middle school in high school. It's a marathon.

24:25

Yeah, and I mean, particularly now. So I have a friend from Wellesley who's a neuro psychologist who I've interviewed a couple times over the last sort of four to six weeks first about teens and tweens. And last night about younger kids, and what does their brain development and their hormones, how does that impact the way they're neurologically and emotionally responding to coming out of pandemic, right, everybody's like, got this road back that we all have to navigate. And she talks about how kids teens and tweens are there. brains, their neural pathways are under construction. And so sometimes the coming back from stuff is going to be like really smooth and really easy. And when things go wrong, you know, with friends or in school, they're going to be able to like manage that. And other times it's going to be like high alert, major freakout, like, desperate, scary. But she said, The flip side of the fact that there are these, like potholes, essentially, and their brain development, is that it also allows them to bounce back more quickly and allows them to cope more easily, and they can build into their brains, coping mechanisms that will last them for the rest of their lives. So while we still get these like very extreme outsize reaction, sometimes because they are under construction, the fact that they are not done, being built allows them to build new and useful and valuable skills, like resilience into their brains into their behaviors, and carry those things well into adulthood, which I found like so reassuring and helpful.

26:08

And reassuring. Yeah, yeah. And sometimes I'll see, even my 16 year old son say to my daughter, like Marin, there's always gonna be an asshole. There's always gonna be the girl who makes some snarky remark about your pants or your hair or whatever. But like, you can't take each thing like a such a big deal, or like, you're never going to be able to face tomorrow. Right? Right. And because he's a less anxious kid, he's sort of modeling for her like, yeah, like someone's an ass and like, you sort of have to, like, call it out, stand up for yourself, and then move on. Because if you hold on to it for too long, you would be incapacitated, as in middle school or high school, or you'd be in your room all day.

26:53

Well, and he's taking his learned experiences, right? Yes, coping his resilience. And he's using that to help his sister, which sometimes is a lot more effective than if you said that to her or your husband would lie to her. Like, the more our kids can get information. I'll give you a perfect example. So my youngest has taken to using 16 nine as like the punch line for every single job during the

27:20

pay No way. No way. Yes.

27:22

I mean, again, he you know, he's been living with his teenage siblings. And where's the point, like, now my husband's like, what do we call the dog? Let's call the dog 69. Right. It's like, it's like our go to, but and here I am, like, I run puberty workshops. I talk about puberty. I teach parents about puberty. And I'm like, Oh, my God, here I am. This is my work. And I never asked my son, dude, do you actually know what 69 is?

27:51

Oh, my God. That's so much worse than my poor

27:55

dad. So we're sitting at the dinner table, and he makes yet another 69 joke. And I looked at him and I was like, Hey, dude, do you know what 69 is? And he pauses and it's like deer in the headlights. And he goes, No. Oh, and I and my husband at this point is like, kind of looks at me, like you should be having this conversation privately, which is like a totally fair point. But I was like, already on the road, like, at 60 miles an hour, so I'm just gonna keep going. And instead of telling him myself, I looked at my 15 year old and I said, Hey, can you tell your brother What 69 it is. And I will tell you, I did that for two reasons. One, because the information from an older kid is always going to be have more impact for good and for bad. In this case, he was getting information from his brother. And two, I actually wanted to know if my 15 year old accurately knew what 69 was. And here's how I how he was gonna describe body parts and sexual acts and all of those things. Needless to say, when he described it to his younger brother, his brother was like, my 10 year old was like, Oh, he has not used 69 as a punchline to a joke. since that night, Oh, my God. It was. Yeah. So it was like, again, do I wish I had the first time he used to put term 69 turned to him and said, Hey, buddy, do you know what that is? But I didn't write. I didn't it was a pandemic. And my head was in the clouds. And it took me a year, but I did eventually. Do it.

29:36

Did you do over? over? Yeah, like a wedding present? Like I had to hear exactly. No, but I think it's such an important topic because, I mean, we're basically saying to our kids, Oh, don't worry about failing the test that you studied for, like you can do a better again next time, but we don't necessarily give ourselves the allowance to do parenting do overs but we give our kids the allowance to do kid do over. So I like that idea because we're not going to be perfect parents and you have four kids. So I'm sure your experience with four different human beings in terms of talking about sex masturbation, and porn and manscaping have been so different.

30:19

Well, it's like, if I'm at any given point, I'm screwing up my conversations with at least two of them. Right, right. And that's like, I would say, That's like my batting. I'm batting 500, which is not bad, but like, not bad. But my always

30:33

say they're gonna be in therapy for something, just pick which one did it which topic in it. And,

30:39

and by the way, like, they should be like, everybody should be in therapy. Like, it's great. It's so great. But I'm just like giving them more material. I'm just like, helping them out along the way. So like this first session, so the therapists aren't awkward when they're wondering.

30:58

I love it. Now, what kind of strategies? Are you giving kids going back to the pandemic, for example? Like other than logistical strategies, like how do you are you talking? Are you basically saying to kids, like, Hey, guys, puberty is kind of complicated. Everyone feels like they're walking on eggshells half the time, and especially with the pandemic, and having been home and now you're going back to school, like, these are the things you can do to feel less volatile. I mean, like, what can these kids do?

31:32

So we do talk to kids about, you know, their version of a mindfulness practice. So one of the things that my colleague, Mary Pat straddie, who you would love, she's amazing. And I

31:44

heard her speak Yes,

31:45

on the on the workshop, so she's gonna have to get her. She's so great. So she talks about creating a worry box for kids. And this is particularly lovely, I think, for younger kids. But even for older kids, like writing down your worries, and putting them in the worry box allows you to identify them and name them and also put them away, put them aside, right. So that's like, one thing that kids can do, as they reemerge as they're feeling concerned. There's also journaling, which is really lovely to do to write down concerns, worries, Rosen Thorne, you know, all different aspects of the day. Some families like to hand journals back and forth to each other. So like, I

32:29

just did a podcast on that. That was last week. So I missed that I need to listen to that. She's Her name is Dr. Kurtz. It's amazing. She talks about the power of journaling back and forth with her two teenage daughter, oh, I

32:41

really need to list because that's something we recommend in our workshops a lot, particularly for families where it's harder for them to talk about stuff that's like a really gentle way to engage and be in communication with your kids. I actually spent a lot of time texting with my older kids during the day and having like, really important conversations sometimes over text because that's like the easiest way to do it. That's a really good point also. And then, in terms of mindfulness, like breathing, I mean, I know that my kids are like, so tired. They're like, Do not tell me my

33:16

god Marin set. Marin said to me yesterday, she goes, don't tell me to breathe again. I'm done with the breathing. I know. I'm like, okay, but I'm just trying to help you.

33:26

So when I explained to my kids, like what happens neurologically when you breathe, and I explain the science to them, that actually really helped them buy into why breathing is so useful. And they were like, kind of a little more willing to breathe with me. Also, if we breathe, even if they don't breathe, they co regulate with us. So like, even if, like, breathing, you'll notice like the first couple deep breaths you take yourself and then maybe they'll join in and they kind of like get on your cycle. So you know, is it realistic to expect like kids to meditate? Probably not, but like 10 deep breaths is a really effective way to kind of calm down. So like when I talked to one of my kids has, like, gets really stressed out before a test. And he was kind of like, we were talking through strategies and all that. And I said, like, trust me just take three deep breaths and it will really help right so i don't i wasn't like, I want you to meditate for an hour before every test right? That's like unreal. writing music I want you to bring your like meditation bell to

34:37

the task but sound bad for the whole class.

34:42

He does take deep breaths now before he takes the test on that really helps. I showed my 15 year old there's a post on Instagram from the wild piece for parents are mindful parenting probably does somatic pressure that you can put on your forehead on the back at the base of your skull on either side and how that's really calming if you're feeling anxious, right so like, giving them just these like really, and also these were I tagged I sent them over Instagram I sent them like Facebook posts like I didn't sit down necessarily and have a deep conversation with them. It was like little snippets little pieces of information sent to them and ways they could consume it. I honestly think when I was teaching my oldest to take deep breaths before tests, it was overtaxed right, I was like, Okay, sit, close your eyes and take three deep breaths when I was teaching my 15 year old about the somatic pressure on his head to calm down not to come down but to like ease any worries. I sent him an Instagram post, right? So it's not always about face to face lecture. It's not a lecture and it's not always in person. Like we're not always going to get to have these conversations in person with our kids.

35:55

No, I love that. Heaps quick message. Hope you enjoyed part two of the three part episode we got some awesome golden nuggets from Vanessa all about parenting do overs and meeting your kids where they're at in terms of information. Part Three is coming next we're gonna dive deep into the importance of skin hunger. She says this is not her term, but a term she came up with along the way in her research. And it's basically skin hunger is wanting to be touched, wanting to feel like you're next to someone or wrestling with your friends or high fiving them and a lot of us and our teens are missing that skin to skin connection that we have had in the past until the pandemic these kids are going back to school re engaging in friendships trying to figure it out. And Vanessa gives us tips on how to be there for our teens what we can say what we can do, and I also talked to Vanessa about starting her business Dynamo girl and the second half of life. See you in part three. You can find Vanessa on Instagram at Vanessa croal Bennett, V A n e SSA k r o l l v e n n e TT

Part 3

00:05

capes, I'm back with part three of the Vanessa crow beddit teenage puberty in the post pandemic world episode. It is insightful and hilarious. I just love Vanessa. In part three, we talked about the importance of skin hunger during the pandemic, normalizing that friendships change being there for your teens by validating and empathizing with them. And how Vanessa built a program that use sports to build girls self esteem that is now called Dynamo girl, her business Dynamo girl has evolved. And now she has workshops that are available for teens, tweens and their parents. Don't forget to listen to the golden nuggets summary at the end of the episode. I want to go back to the CO regulation thing because I've seen that come up a few times with you're talking and other people's work. And I try to explain it to my husband like this. Like, if I have a shitty day or something yucky happened to me, I don't necessarily have to have a five hour conversation. But like sometimes I just want him to like be in the room, even if he's doing something else because I know he's there. And it's somehow co regulating my nervous system because he's a much calmer because sometimes they'll go I don't even know why you're sitting in the same room with him. They're being so mean and going crazy. And I'm like I understand that. But when you have something shitty happened to you at school or whatever, and you just have your mom sitting there on the couch, even if you're the person who has to absorb the meanness, right, well, I know how helpful that is to me, so I'm willing to take it for a little bit.

01:44

Well, and I think, you know, just sitting there, you know, Lisa d'amour calls it being the potted plant. Megan lay he calls it elbow to elbow. So she talks about sitting next to her kid while they're playing like Roblox or I you know, whatever x-box and getting elbow to up and this and the skin touch because one of the things that we've seen in pandemic is that kids teens and tweens who would normally have touch from their friends, right, hugging, squeezing, playing with their hair all the way up to like sexual involvement these kids haven't had for so long because they've been locked down and separated. And that energy that that skin hunger, and I didn't make that term up. It came from somewhere but current ottersen keeps giving me credit for it. And I was like Tara just I wish I had come up with it. But I actually didn't and also I don't remember where it came from. So if you came up with the term skin hunger, can you please let Sarah know.

02:46

He's back.

02:47

But that skin hunger. So like in my household. We rescued my parents dog bimbo.

02:56

That's a great symbol and 60 and

02:58

69. So bimbo was named by my mother to entertain herself and bimbo was a dog we hated for like nine years, and then we were with her and pandemic, and my kids fell in love with her and she, they stroke her, they pet her, they snuggle her, they carry her and she was like filling that need. And so sometimes, particularly in pandemic, our kids need that affection. So people may have seen their kids who were not normally affectionate, giving them hugs, giving them squeezes playing with their hair, right? Like your kid who like wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole is now like snuggling up with you.

03:35

Well, I had two interesting things happened. My son has been saying I love you. After all, which I found interesting. And he's a he's a pretty sort of sensitive kid. So he, you know, he, and he knows how much how important it is. Right? Right. So he kind of like gives it to me a little bit. You know, my daughter's a girl. I think girls sometimes like give their moms a little bit of a run for their money. But what's interesting about her is that she I find her almost laying on me every night on top of on the sofa. And I'm like, this is a girl who wouldn't have touched me with like a 10. Right. Right, right. Yeah, I mean, and you my son's like, please don't touch me. He's still kind of like, Can you stop, but he also is playing outdoor volleyball. He's in a big dog pile with his friends with masks on I have no idea. So he's probably getting a lot more of that sort of energy feeling from the outdoor volleyball, right?

04:33

He's getting that input and output from other places. Yeah, but I do think just being around being available physically. And you don't have to say anything. Like you just have to Yeah, be there. And by the way, when they dump their shit on you, which they will. You don't have to solve it or fix it, right. It's really just like, Hey, I'm so sorry. That sounds really hard. Like I What a bummer. That must have been really tough today, right? Like, I'm not solving anything, I'm not fixing anything, I'm just validating and empathizing with whatever they're going through. And that's kind of it. Like, they don't always want to have a whole conversation. They just want to hand it over to you so they can move on with their day, or move on with their night and get their homework done and FaceTime their friends and like, yes, worse than left carrying their shit, which then we feel awful and so sad for them and like upset, but you know, and not sleeping, not sleeping and worried. Yeah. But like, if that means they get to move on, yes, then like, great, go for it, hand it over, and like go on your way.

05:43

I couldn't agree more. And it's so interesting seeing the difference between that my parents and how they're navigating it, you know, my daughter, you know, but might when my son was in eighth grade, everything was a really big deal to my husband's like, Sarah, you don't remember when it was like a spin like a fire hydrant, like spinning water, like through eighth grade. He's like, Jake's calm now, because he's 16 and a half, like, he knows that like there's, you know, he made made it to the light at the end of the tunnel. He's in a good place. He's not mentally all over the place in middle school was like, Oh, crap, and you don't remember and like, that's how she feels. It's like, you know, middle schools like a landmine. Like every time you take a step, you don't know what's coming. You don't know what someone's gonna say to you. It's it's a landmine.

06:27

I mean, one of the hardest things I think for middle school kids is that they expect that people are expect that friendships never change, right? We live in a society and a culture where it's like, Best friends, best friends were BFF. She's my BFF. I've been BFF. You know, I've noticed since I was two, I've never since I was 10. And there's so much pressure in that if people would just teach their kids that friendships change, and evolve,

06:53

even

06:54

100% for adults in

06:56

our friendships over the pandemic. I mean, and that's what I say to my daughter all the time. I'm like, remember, so and so who I used to talk to every day, like, I don't weigh more, and there isn't always a reason, because she wants a reason. She's a logical, thoughtful person. I'm like, sometimes there's no reason, you just feel that you've grown apart. And maybe you don't connect as much any right

07:18

now. But it's friendships change. And it's an unkind, painful throw away, like that. But sometimes there's no reason times there's no reason people drift apart. And they have different interests and their different stages and their puberty or their emotional development. Some are interested in some in romantic relationships. Other kids aren't interested in romantic relationships, I find that like, some have more access to social media than other kids do. Like that all affects friendships. But if we just tell them that it's totally normal, that their friendships are going to change, like that relieves so much of the pressure that like they're supposed to be BFFs, with this group of people Forever and always, because that's too much stress and pressure to live up to.

08:01

Yeah, I also use my son as an example for her. I'm like, remember when he was besties with blah, blah, blah, blah. And then they came back the next year after summer? And they like they never spoke again. I'd be like, Jake, why aren't you friends with blah, blah, blah? And he'd be like, Mom, there's no reason we're just it. We're just not friends. Like we have different friends right now. And I think as parents we so much want like the answers the answers the answers, but sometimes there are an answers. And we have to teach our kids to sort of be okay with there's not an answer all the time,

08:32

right? And if we frame it as like, Well, actually, this is an opportunity for you to like, meet these new people and try these new things and explore these other sides of yourself rather than like, Oh, dude, you're totally getting left in the dust. And doesn't that suck? Right? Like framing it? or positive kind of optimistic way can help them reframe it also?

08:55

Yes. Okay. I want to quickly talk about your personal self recreation journey and sort of what your career trajectory is look like, because a lot of the listeners of this podcast like myself, are in this self recreation journey of like, Am I a mom first and then I have a job? Am I doing both at the same time? Am I going backwards? Am I having a career and having kids later? And I think you have an interesting story. I know. I'm like, so excited to talk about puberty and kids and pandemics, but I also don't want to forget about that piece. So I want to do that.

09:28

So I got married, what in our society is really young. I was 24 when I got married, and I had my first kid at 26. And before I got married, I worked in Washington, DC, and then I worked in my family business in New York. And then I had my first child, and for the first year I took I was completely at home like literally hibernating me and my kid like the two of us just staring at each other all day. Luckily, He's really cute. And then, for the next kind of eight and a half years as I was having kids, I got a master's in Jewish history, which was only for the purpose of my own intellectual edification, and not for any practical reason,

10:17

or are you bored? were you feeling like you needed to exercise your brain.

10:22

I've always loved Jewish study, I was passionate about it. I knew I needed to continue to like exercise my intellectual muscle. I needed something that was flexible that I could do part time that was like, in the neighborhood, because the the seminary where I went was like, in my neighborhood, and I wanted something that wasn't going to feel like pressure in terms of like, what is the next step? Like it was just like an experience into itself? And then when my youngest was two and or one, yeah, two, and my daughter was for, I was like, Okay, I got, I gotta get on this. And my daughter came to me, I remember I was like, peeing, I was sitting on the toilet, and she wanders into my bathroom as little kids and big

11:07

concept.

11:07

Yeah, totally. And she kind of wanders in and she's like, Mommy, it's mommy's an eye doctor, what are you gonna be when you grow up? I was like, Can I just wipe first? And so I said, You know, I know for sure. I'm not going to be an eye doctor. Because that requires like, 1000 years of school that I'm not going to do. And I said, You know what, sweetie, I'm actually really not sure. But I'm thinking about it. And I will let you know when I figured it out. So she's like, my accountability officer, she circled back like two months later. Yeah, that's my daughter, my God. And she's like, so have you figured it out? Oh, well, and I said not yet. But in the meantime, I had kind of been coming up with the idea for Dynamo girl and and kind of was beginning the journey. And so I told her about the idea. And she said, Okay, so when can I come work for you? Like, right? She was like, totally,

12:01

yes.

12:02

But here's what I'll say. Before I started Dynamo girl, I spent a year reading everything I could, researching as much as I could, and talking to every single person I could. And I needed in my mind, I needed to be perfect. I needed to be expert in the topic.

12:18

And my husband, I know what you wanted it to be where you just like researching, I knew how to

12:24

Yeah, I mean, I knew generally that I wanted to build a program that would use sports to build girls self esteem. So I was an athlete my entire life, I knew the role that sports to play to my own life, I knew that girl self esteem plummets at age nine, and never fully recovers. So between the ages of kind of 10 and 14 girls, self reported self esteem declines by 25 to 30%. So I was like, Okay, well, why is that a self fulfilling prophecy? Why can't we do stuff about it. So Dynamo girl was created to build a really strong foundation in girls sports, so that by the time they hit that point where their self esteem is meant to go down, we can kind of counter that the puberty workshops that we run, we're like the next stage, right? Because that's, it's not a coincidence that those are the ages that girls go, on average through puberty. So like, they go through puberty, like between the ages of eight and 14, that's when it starts, and their self esteem starts to decline at nine. Like, that's not a coincidence. So I knew there were like elements to it. But my husband finally turned to me one day, and he's like, you don't need a fucking PhD just start, like, dark. And I mean, it was like, annoying and funny at the time. But it was also great advice, because I was so busy, like I was this kid who'd always been this great student, and I did everything exactly how I was supposed to. But Hello, there were no goalposts set by anybody else. No one was like checking my billable hours. Nobody was telling me what grade or score I needed to get like, it was all coming from me. And I was so unaccustomed to having to do things that way. It was so uncomfortable. It was so scary. And I was like, I had no practice at it. I had no muscle to make mistakes. And I had no muscle to create my own goalposts and my own strategies and my own,

14:19

like crazy driven by this performance driven gasseri. And I always talk about that. It's like, I went to this school, and I took these classes and I got these grades. But then when you take that infrastructure away and you're just left like sitting there at your desk, you're like, shit, what do I do now? Right? Know what my next goal is, right? Where should I be? When I had four HD, my husband was like, you have your PhD just start and I'm like, but it doesn't tell me how to do Instagram and like it doesn't tell me how to build a podcast. Right?

14:53

Right. And so I think like for, often for females, although for some males to that Fear of failure. Like it's so heavy, the perfectionism is so lazy that like, we can't get out of our own ways. And we just as in my husband's word, because he uses the F word like as an adjective for everything like me, we just need to fucking start. And so I think in the journey, like we can't edit ourselves, before we begin, we can't assume we're not qualified or able, we can't assume that people won't take this seriously. Like, we have to walk in with the assumption that we're just going to give it a shot and see how it goes. I mean, I'll tell you a quick story. At the end of every Dynamo girl semester, we give away like a little gift to the girls a little mini stress ball, headband, bracelet, whatever. And I created little, those little rubber bracelets that the kids like to stack on their arms, and said, like Dynamo girl, spring 2015. And I ordered, you know, 200, except I had 150 girls of the program. So I was left with 50 rubber bracelets, except the rubber bracelet said spring 2015, which meant they expired as soon as I gave them out. I could never reuse them. Right? And let's say that's like, maybe it was like $10 worth of rubber bracelets that I can use. When I tell you I spent three weeks kicking myself over those goddamn rubber bracelets. I couldn't let it go. I was like, How can I do that? That was so stupid. Why did I put the year Why did I put the season like, What's wrong with me? I'm such a moron. And it took me so long to let go of that like miniscule mistake. And it took up so much mental energy, like what could I have been doing in those three weeks if I wasn't so busy beating myself up. And so that's like been an in terms of self recreation and like imagining who we can become just leaving those mistakes behind us. And just like not looking back has been so critical. It's been the best skill that I've learned is just to like, move past my mistakes, move past my failures without spending the energy beating myself up.

17:06

I love that because I mean, I believe me, I'm in it. Like I'm in the thick of it. Everything I'm doing is new this year. And I'm like, okay, the monitor is being scared doing any doing it anyway, owning what you're good at getting help at what you're bad at are not so great at. And like if I worried about technology, I could never do this podcast. Right, right, ever. And I think it's also important, like I grew up in house where my both my parents worked full time. I've talked about in other episodes, and so much of who I am as a person is because my mom did work. And she did have this huge career, right? So I think for me, showing my kids at ages 14 and 16. Like Yes, I was a stay at home mom with a PhD, but now I'm deciding to do something different. Yeah. And that's okay, too. Yeah. And they're seeing me like start something for myself from scratch, right. And they see me crying, laughing, celebrating big wins, small wins, struggling, stressing, and they're watching it unfold in front of them. And I think that's a really important thing for kids to see. Totally.

18:15

I completely agree. I mean, my kids will sit down at the dinner table. And they'll be like, so mom, like what's going on with business? How's it going? Right? And they're, and they'll be like, What's an update? What did you do today? Like, what was something that went really well, right? They're, they're learning to be interested in someone else. And their success, they're learning to support someone else in their failure or in their mistakes. They're learning that the dinner table conversation is not only about them and their needs, but also about such a good point. other human beings that adults have feelings, and disappointments and joy and thrill and all of those things. So it's, it is partially about modeling for them, like what it means to be a working adult who kind of had to, like, start from zero and build and build up and kind of screw up along the way, but keep going. I mean, there's nothing better for them to learn that lesson.

19:15

Nothing better. I mean, I have a similar story, like my son who was probably like, 11 at the time, he said to me, Mom, you know, I know you're a doctor and I know you're you're home with us. But you have so many like good things to say and so many I'm trying to use the language use and you help you help us so much at home and like help us think through problems that we have. I wish you could do it for more people said, You know, I have $1,000 that I've saved from all my birthdays and I want you to have an office with a sign on it that has your name on it. He goes when I go the doctor, I see that the person has a sign with their name on it and I want you to have an office with a sign with your name on it and I literally like melted to the floor. What a lie. Oh my god. And I think that that's part of this journey too is like, I do want to show them that, like, I can have an office with my name on it, even if it's smashed in the corner of my bedroom, you know, for the past year, even though they were home through the whole thing doing zoom school, you know, it's definitely an interesting year. But, you know, it's just showing them that we can have these different stages in our lives and things can be easy things can be hard things can go Well, I mean, my husband's an entrepreneur, so they've seen things go really well and things knocko right. So it's such a good sort of parenting moment. But before we wrap up, I want to do fun shit about Vanessa, what's next on the bucket list?

20:47

So a new project that I'm not allowed to announce okay, but hopefully, depending on when this comes out, I will be allowed to announce

20:57

Oh, okay, can't wait for that. It is it is puberty related. I will. Okay, good. That's good. Anything that you have learned that's now on your bucket list after quarantine? Um, besides high heels. I know mine have been napping forever. Mine

21:14

are like half inch of dust on them. Um, I know, maybe social obligations that just like aren't meaningful to me. I think maybe those can go by the wayside. Retail.

21:27

What about a secret pleasure?

21:31

Regency romance novels. Wow. So before there was bridgerton, about six years ago, I shopped around an idea to adapt another writer, not Julia Quinn, but another writer to make TV series or movies about these books. And the reason I love these books, which also is you won't see in the movie adaptation of bridgerton. But it's actually in these Regency romance novels is the sex is feminist. And it is equal. You've never seen more men going down on women than in Regency romance novel. I loved how feminist the sex was and how empowering the storylines were. And I wanted to get those made, but sadly, I'm not Shonda Rhimes, and therefore she beat me to it. Have you seen bridgerton?

22:25

I've seen a few episodes of it. I haven't quite finished it yet.

22:29

So I will say I know we're getting off rapidfire but I will say seeing that the scene where she loses her virginity is a great way to teach our kids how not the way it is when you lose your virginity like the chances of you orgasming the first time you have sex, or like, Yeah, I would say like at point oh 1%. And meanwhile, she's like having the best sex of her life ever. So I did walk my daughter through why that depiction of losing your virginity is not accurate. So it's worth at some point watching that episode.

23:02

So your 13 year old daughter now has commentary from her mother about what to expect and not expect from the first sexual experience.

23:13

Well, I said to her, I was like, okay, as one of my friends said, like, it's immediately like P and the V. Like, no woman is going to orgasm from like, an just immediate family. So I didn't say that to my daughter. But I did say to her Hey, sweetheart, what does he need to find if she's really going to orgasm and she's like, her clearest Of course.

23:33

Oh my god, and you're like, Okay, that's my best parenting and propriety. out there. Yes. Yeah. So sorry, off topic, but yes, no, I love it. It's so good.

23:47

What about your favorite beauty treatment? a pedicure with callus remover where they do that stuff? And then they do that stuff? And then

23:54

I don't realize how the fuck you got so much stuff

23:58

that came off my foot. gusting there's like a pile of like dead gray skin by the like pedicure. Yeah, I

24:07

know. I said to my son, I'm like, Don't you want to get a pedicure? You play beach volleyball. Like your feet are disgusting. Yeah, bottom.

24:15

I am bro. I'm getting my first pedicure and a week and I'm so so excited. I like

24:21

I can't say that's gonna be my first because my if I don't I get ingrown big toenails. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's it's shocking down there. I'll just say it's not a good situation. Okay, so what whoo things do you do? Deep breathing

24:35

a lot. A lot. A lot of breathing was planned out often. No, nothing. Nothing. I'm like, super. I grew up. I grew up in a family where my mom was pissed. And it was usually in the car. She did this she did like and then we knew we needed to shut the fuck up because she was like, really mad. And I'd like that's I'm not particularly sure experimental in terms of like trying that stuff, but maybe that's like a new thing. Maybe I'm going to become more experimental.

25:07

I've been trying to do the unplugged meditation app every Yeah. Yeah. Because I'm like, okay, and I just interviewed Susie, who's the founder of it. And I'm like, okay, the phone is next to my bed on the floor. The app is there. If I click on meditation of the day, like, right when you open it, like, it's 10 minutes right here right now, so I'm good for a week. I've

25:29

done it every day for you. I'm like, I got to do this 10 minutes before I get out of this bed, or I'm never gonna touch it for the rest of the day. All right, I'm gonna try it because Mary Pat, my Collie meditates every single day. And okay, she says, it's just like, incredibly helpful. And I

25:45

think all day I mean, it could be placebo. But this week, I'm like, I don't feel as like mentally deranged. Like, I'm not becoming as unhinged as I normally do.

25:58

I don't know CBOE and listen, whatever works,

26:02

whatever word whatever we're doing, I think having the app and just right when you open it, it says meditation of the day. I mean, obviously, you can pick through 500 million different topics, but the fact that it just like feeds it to you, and you're like, I'm just gonna do this 10 minutes. For some reason. It's just made it easier, favorite TV show or what you're watching now,

26:24

I just added a subscription to acorn TV, which my husband says is like, essentially, high volume, low quality content. Okay.

26:35

Okay.

26:37

He says it's British for mediocre. So it's just like a series of like, really mediocre Commonwealth shows. I've been watching bomb girls, about young women in Canada during World War Two, her working in a munitions factory. And you like that? I would say it's like a, b minus.

26:57

Okay. Okay. I'm not I'm like always looking for TV shows because I'm not a big TV watcher. So they have to come with like a good recommendation. We've watched call my agent, which we were really into.

27:09

And then it Yeah, and then it ended, which was sad. I'm rewatching Gilmore Girls. Oh.

27:16

So Wow. So I've watched like a season and a half of that. I did watch the Israeli version of beauty and the baker. I think

27:25

maybe what was the name of it? Beauty and the Baker? No, but did it have a different? It didn't have a different Hebrew? I don't know.

27:35

Okay, that was fun. I mean, I've watched so much stuff, and I can't even like Tiger King feels like a lifetime ago. Like I just like, I was like, 20. When I watched Tiger King, it's like, so long

27:47

ago, so much has happened in this past year. What was the last thing you ordered from Amazon? a tick collar for my dog? Okay, that's super sexy. Was intuition natural to you? Or did you work at it? Natural? It's like my superpower. And what happens when you don't listen to it? Are you just so pissed off? I'm so mad at myself when I don't listen to so

28:10

I get accused by my family of being my extended family and being judgmental because I take my intuition very seriously. And I have learned to continue to listen to it. What I have, what I have gotten better at doing is coupling intuition with empathy. Right? So like, hey, there's like, This is making me really uncomfortable. I don't like what's going on here. But then I take it the next step, which is like, Huh, I wonder what's going on for that person that they're acting this way and making me feel this way?

28:45

That's so interesting that you say that, because that's what I've been doing with my middle school daughter is, Hey, I know that person's comment made you feel really shitty. But like, let's think about like, what could potentially be going on for them that they would have to make a comment. Yeah, back is typically, it's not really about you. It's about them. And it's such a hard thing for kids and adults to

29:11

Yeah, and it's funny, I actually don't know developmentally, at what age kids can begin to understand that concept. I mean, I think, certainly in middle school, but like, I used to try that with younger kids, and everyone's like, yeah, that's not gonna work. Like Don't Don't, don't do that.

29:27

I actually think it weirdly works. Because you can train a kid like with a script until they really know it, right? Like I always said to my kids, if somebody falls, your first instinct shouldn't be to laugh. My first instinct should be Are you okay? Right. I remember with my son, like his teacher fell onto like a rosebush. And the teacher wrote me an email saying, Oh my god, it was so sweet. Your son came over and said, Are you okay? Do you need a band day? Oh, stand the point. Is it may have been memorized, right? But it doesn't matter. It didn't matter because it was still there, right? At some point, it's not going to be memorized, right? It's going to become second nature. So that's exactly right. Middle School semantics becomes second nature. Yeah, for sure. What's the smallest thing we can do today to start our shift towards self recreation.

30:21

So I think I mean, apropos of our conversation, letting go of the small mistakes as quickly as we can. And sometimes that involves circling back and apologizing, and then letting go, but like, not carrying those things with us all day, every day. And also, like not carrying with us other people's mistakes, because that also takes up time and energy. So just like know, letting go of that stuff as quickly as we can, and then moving past it.

30:51

What would your bottom line advice be on finding the sweet spot in the second half of life?

30:57

Don't self at it, try things first. And then if it's not for you, or it's not working, then edit it out. But don't edit out before you even tried it.

31:07

I think so many of us are so scared to try something and then say, oh, we're not doing that anymore.

31:12

Right? Like the shame, right? Like, oh, I started this company. There have been times when I thought I was gonna have to like, change the company closed the company in the pandemic, right? Like, yeah, totally up ended. And what I kept thinking about was the shame of having to tell people that it didn't work out. Right, like, and I'm like, who fuck cares? Who cares? Like, this is my life, who cares? But that fear of admitting that I had failed was so terrifying, that I'd love to be able to just like, be willing to try things. And yeah, without the worry that they're not going to be perfect, or they're not going to work out.

31:52

And they also think that sometimes it's not failure. It's just sort of like, Oh, I started this podcast, and I realized, like, it's just too demanding. And I'm not getting enough time to do X, Y, or Z. I'm only living once. So now I just decided to not do it anymore. Is that a failure? Or is that a pivot right to something else? It's kind of like the framing of it.

32:16

Someone needs a new word for the term pivot, because I've used so many times, I think, dead on the side of the road. Like it's like exhausted for me

32:25

so much. I totally agree with you. And I sort of started calling it on Instagram, the midlife remix. Oh, I love that. You guys saw that? I love that. Yeah, because it's a remix. It's like you're itchy. For something new. You don't know what the fuck you're itchy for. You don't know if it's like you need a new car or you need some Botox or you need to go get a master's in Jewish education. But you know, your issue for something. Right, so it's a midlife. freemax Oh my God. That's so funny. That's how I'm viewing it, at least for this year. Now that we have shoveled our ship for today, Vanessa. I hope that you have loved Vanessa's golden nuggets as much as I have. I love digging deep with our golden shovels. Today on this podcast, if listeners want to find you, where can they find you?

33:14

They can find me on Instagram at Vanessa Cole Bennett. And they can subscribe to my uncertain parenting newsletter which we can put the link to in the show notes. And they can find my workshops and talks at WWE Dynamo girl.com.

33:33

So good. You guys have to check it out. So is it a one day thing?

33:38

It's an hour and a half. It's virtual. If anyone has issue, affording it, please reach out to me because cost is never a barrier to participation. And we cap it at 20 girls so

33:50

that everybody can fit on one zoom screen. Got it. And so are you. You're leading it.

33:56

I lead it with my colleague Mary Pat. Okay. And we go through our female anatomy

34:04

you have to see Vanessa is holding a female uterus follow uterus,

34:09

reproductive organs, and I have my my stuffed female uterus heatable how to

34:17

think when Sherri Ross was holding a 16 inch dildo? Well, if your husband's like this, and then I was like, my husband's not just he's normal. And then my husband is like that now. He listened to the episode. He was like, Okay, thanks. Did you want me to claim were 16 like Why? That was a setup for total disaster. Yeah.

34:41

So this is this is less pressure. Yes. And yeah, so we go through anatomy physiology. We go through stuff about friendship and consent, talking about hard feelings, and it's really wonderful. We have girls from all over the country. We always have an amazing cohort from LA I'm sure you do bring a wonderful emotional intelligence and self expression.

35:05

Yeah, they're

35:05

always our best participants. I adore them.

35:08

But do you find that because you're mixing sort of anonymous, like people, kids who aren't necessarily friends in real life, that you get more participation and openness? Because they don't feel like they're being judged by the kids, they go to school with, like, how does that work?

35:25

Yeah, I mean, so sometimes, it's nice for the kids to be there with kids, other kids they know and with friends, and it's comforting, but we make it really clear what the culture of the workshop is on that no one is excluded, and that there are no dumb questions on that. Like, we just want to hear what they think and what they feel. And so it's really about creating like, the ground rules and creating a safe space for them. And then it's kind of they start to connect with each other and really lovely ways. When we have girls in person who know each other and who are friends. It's just about being clear that like, Hey, we're not going to talk about other people's flow, we're not going to use people's names. We're not going to use examples of like, when your friend who's in this room did something to upset you. But we're going to like keep it keep it anonymous. So yeah, it can be it can be hard, but they're I mean, the kids are amazing. They're so interested and curious and engaged and just hungry for information. And they're just like super smart and perceptive. I love it. It's like the best thing I ever get to do.

36:29

I mean, I'm like, maybe I should take it.

36:31

We do a parents workshop. We're not doing one right now. But we do do parents workshop. Yeah. Which is a lot of fun. A lot of fun.

36:39

The funny thing I was gonna tell you before. So the other night, I was listening to a podcast, I may have been yours with Elisa, I don't know, I was listening to one. And it was in my ear with the earbud. But my daughter was who was on top of me, like I told you, early shoulder to shoulder with me. And somebody says, and then we talk about nocturnal emission. And my daughter looks at me and she goes, I need the last two minutes of my life back.

37:07

Oh, my God.

37:10

And then this morning, she goes, are you? Are you doing the puberty talk today? And I said, Yeah, and she goes, am I gonna need an hour back of my life? Like, I don't know. It's it's possible. So I think it's kind of funny that like, even though my kids give me a hard time, they also feel like on their side, they can kind of give me shit, too. And give it back to me. And it sounds like your kids give it back to you also.

37:33

Yeah, I mean, it's all about a conversation. A conversation is never the other side of the conversation is never going to be exactly what we want or how we want it. And it's really about being in dialogue. And sometimes it's not even about being in dialogue. Sometimes they don't want to answer or respond or engage or anything. I mean, my question for your daughter would be okay, so do you know what nocturnal emissions

37:55

are? I know.

37:57

She must have been I'm gonna ask her now when I pick her up. Yeah. And I pick her up not answering a phone call today. Right? You might do over from

38:06

today or do over. And I would also ask her, Hey, I wonder how boys feel when they have nocturnal emissions? Because often girls feel like boys have it really easy. I'm puberty. Yeah. And the truth is, it's just as hard for boys just in different ways. And so building an empathy for her male friends and for boys about what they're going through as well as empathy from males about what females are going through. I think it's like a huge step forward for kids get So two things, no phone call when you pick her up and circle back and say, You know what, we are talking about nocturnal emissions the other night. I'm wondering, do you do you know what those are? I'm curious.

38:47

I'm actually gonna ask her and let me know. Let me know. And God, oh, my God, and then you're going to meditate. You're going to do the unplugged meditation. Okay, I'm in. I'm in my early minutes of your life, you just turn on your phone, and it's there. So I want everyone to think about shit we can start doing today. One small step. I want to thank Vanessa for highlighting the tools and strategies for having puberty and other awkward hard shots in our teens and tweens, and how we can help our kids in the re entry post pandemic in middle school and high school. Thank you Vanessa Crowe Bennett thing I love this. This is gonna end up being like three episodes. Or so long. It's what I love it. It's so good. Thank you so much. You're my new best friend I call you and tell you about nocturnal emissions and whatever happens is this afternoon it might do over. I'm just I can't wait for the sequel. All right, kisses. Thank you. Thanks, Sara. Bye. Hey, it's me again. I listened to this episode with Vanessa Crowell Bennett. So I could summarize the goal. golden nuggets for you, from this episode to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listened to a long episode, I'm like, Oh my god, I love that. And then by the time I get to the dinner table, and I'm trying to tell my husband or kids, I can't remember the specifics. That's why I come back and do a golden nugget summary. If you go to my website and click on episodes, then show notes. It's all written out. I do the homework for you. And the links mentioned in the episode are there too. I absolutely had the best time with Vanessa. We were literally in the fucking parenting teenage puberty, sex, awkward weeds. I could have been there for like 15 hours we had so much to talk about. In this episode, we found the sweet spot discovering Vanessa's experience with talking to her for children about sex and puberty and the best approaches to take tips that she had, and that mistakes are actually okay. And there are do overs. I mean, she talks about this at length like we can do parenting do overs, and basically admit that we made a mistake or we didn't have the right information and do it again. And we also talked about the importance of taking a few deep breaths. In those awkward and triggering parenting moments, we discuss how her teenage puberty workshops have not only helped young teens become more comfortable in their bodies, but has also given Vanessa a new path in her second half of life in terms of her career and trajectory. Golden Nugget. Number one, everyone has different comfort levels as a parent in having those awkward conversations. And they don't always need to be face to face. Sometimes it can be through text or an email or a handwritten message. Every kid is different. Every parent is different. We have different personalities and levels of comfort, especially when it comes to talking about uncomfortable subjects. I mean, who wants to talk about porn with their kids? masturbation, HPV oral sex, intercourse. I mean, it's like, so awkward. As parents, it's important to come up with a plan on how to approach your child and what questions to ask. We have to find out where they're at and how much they already know. Your partner can be in the room with you. They don't have to speak. I mean, my husband is sort of like a backseat driver. He's like, okay, Sarah is gonna handle this whole fucking thing. I'm gonna say three things at the end and feel like a really good parrot, which he is. But he's not like an awkward talker, topic person. And then we're all going to be done with this. These awkward conversations don't always need to be in person. Like I said, they can be sort of a gentle communication, the text an Instagram post, or Hey, J. K. Marin, did you see this article that talks about vaping or about puberty, blah, blah, blah, they really love those. Ah, and by doing this, it also helps you gauge how much they know. I mean, you don't want to go into a room and be like, let's talk about porn. They may not even know what porn is. So Vanessa goes through sort of the question asking pyramid, Golden Nugget number two working out, you're talking muscle, we have to build this talking muscle. The longer you don't talk about an issue, the harder it becomes to talk about it. And the more you talk about it, the easier it becomes, which is true of any topic. It's multi layered. And the reason it's important is number one, there are basic facts and information our kids need to know about their bodies and about the world around them. And we can't assume particularly in the pandemic, that someone else is going to do our parenting homework for us, we have to give them that information. It's on us, especially if they've been home for like a year, at least in my case. Number two, kids need to know that there is safety involved in understanding their bodies, their safety in terms of protecting themselves and their physical health. Like if things aren't working as they should or something's itchy or something's not operating right. They should know how to express it and how to name those body parts. And it also helps them in terms of owning their bodies, other people shouldn't be touching them when they know their own body part names. That's why we have to call things vagina penis, not sort of like cute, funny names. And like I said before, don't give them extra information that they don't need golden nugget. Number three, the pandemic has made kids feel safe being at home and going through puberty. I mean, can you imagine how ideal that is? Like get your first period and you're like home for six months. And you don't even have to think about those like awkward moments at school where you're like, how do I carry my tampon to the bathroom without anyone seeing how do I unstick the paper from the back of the Maxi pad without the girl in the stall next to me hearing that? I mean, these are like real live problems that can you remember when you were a teenager and how awful that feeling was? I mean, you could get your period in the pandemic. You didn't have to worry about sleep overs or awkward school issues. Kids have emerged some of them. A lot of them with new bodies after the pandemic, they've gained weight. They've lost weight. They've gotten boobs. They've gotten facial hair, armpit hair, it's so much to navigate. Vanessa says that the logistics for these kids is really important. How do I remove body hair? What was safe and may not be safe now? Like how do I carry this tampon to the bathroom? What's the most effective way of doing this? And what's going to work long term for me Golden Nugget number four, coming through the side door. This is so interesting. Vanessa was saying how sometimes we can't just come parenting front on that we actually have to come through the side door and I talked about that earlier. That's sort of like when you leave an article on the kitchen counter or send a random text. That's the side door not the front door. I mean, I'm kind of a bold person. So with my kids, I kind of I'm like, okay, Jake. Okay, Marin, let's talk about porn. And that looks on their faces are like, Oh my god, like, can you kill me right now. But whatever. So side door, front door, whatever works for your parenting. And Vanessa gives an example. You can be like, Hey, I'm wondering what you know about porn? Or have you ever heard of the word masturbation? Or have you ever come across the term blah, blah, blah. Ask them these questions to gauge where they're at. You don't want to start the conversation with Have you ever seen porn? Because like, maybe they don't even know what porn is. Take a deep breath, and then clarify what you were trying to say. Golden Nugget number five, revisit conversations over time. My son hates this. He's like, Oh my god, Mom, you're going to talk to me about porn again. Or you're going to talk to me about this again. Don't tell me that if I do this, this and this, and this is gonna happen. But he's kind of right. Like, I am gonna bring it up and I'm gonna bring it up often. I mean, I'm we're not talking about porn and masturbation and pubic hair once a week, but it definitely comes up every few months is sort of like a catch up like, hey, are we still on the same page. Kids don't want to sit through long lectures, I mean, especially mine, and they won't absorb everything that you're saying if you're going on and on and on and on. The most powerful way to do this Vanessa says is to give them small pieces of information over time, Golden Nugget number six, we have to model for kids that it's okay to make mistakes. whether we realize it or not our kids pick up on basically everything we do they notice when we are having a bad day when we're mad when we're sad about something this is why it's so important to show them that it's okay to make mistakes they will be able to pick up on how we deal with these things, how we make mistakes and how we reflect about them in our own lives. So this is what Vanessa calls the do over I've been working on this lately like hey guys didn't mean to say that Hey guys, I didn't really know the answer that question and I looked it up and I have a better answer that I had given to you before the gold is dripping off these nuggets, grab it, use it. The resources and products mentioned in this episode are in the show notes. Go to the flexible neurotic comm click on episodes and then click on show notes. subscribe to the podcast. You'll love it. Sign up for the sweetspot newsletter. It will give you exclusive updates about my podcast and secret golden nuggets that are not mentioned in the episodes. I have some really cool stuff. Also follow me on my Instagram at the flexible neurotic talk soon. Good peeps. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed finding our sweet spot today, and digging through layers of shit with your golden shovel, subscribe, subscribe. Subscribe. DM me on Instagram at the flexible neurotic. Tell me which golden shit nuggets resonated with you? The ones that you're going to start using today to start getting your shit together to find our sweet spots. screenshot it, send it to a friend. This is Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic, inspiring you to gather, curate, incorporate, maybe even meditate