Episode 17 transcript

Hi, good peeps. This is the next episode of the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic. Today I have a very special guest. She is an author, blogger, podcaster mom and speaker Her name is Dr. Kurtz. She is the author of three books with her most recent book. I am my mother's daughter wisdom on life, loss and love. This book helps readers to understand And how the written word family traditions and rituals can help strengthen their relationships with family and friends and create more happiness and joy in their lives. We can all live with more intensity and feeling and communicate more meaningfully with our loved ones. Dara lost her mom to cancer who passed away shortly after the birth of her first daughter after being diagnosed with breast cancer at the age of 42 herself, leaving her 20 year career as a personal banker and financial advisor Dara entered into the second half of her life. This has been quite a personal and professional self recreation journey for Dara. I am looking forward to unraveling this story for us. Hi, Dara.

05:46

I am so happy to be here.

05:48

I'm so happy that you're here. I absolutely loved your book. And I'm so excited to dive into it with you. My intentions for this episode as it is for all my episodes jarra of the flexible neurotic, is I want to dig deep with our golden shit shovels. Do you have a shovel?

06:07

Oh, yeah, lots of shovel. Sure, there'll

06:09

be dazzled and beautiful in an edgy conversation about how we can and will find our sweet spots between neurotic and chill. I think you're neurotic a little bit like I am. That's the sense I got?

06:21

Um, yes, absolutely. I knew you're gonna ask me that.

Okay, we're going to discover what it means to really connect with our loved ones. And Dora is going to share her personal insights on the loss of her mom, and two grandmothers and her own cancer diagnosis, and how it played out in her life with her two daughters. This is not going to be an episode focusing on grief, I have one of those in the works, we're going to focus on how grief and life events can shape the second half of your life trajectory and self recreation, and the small things we can do to create more meaning in our lives and current connections and relationships. I just want to say that I read a lot of books. And when I read your book, it really screamed out to me, you have to interview her, you have to interview her. And I think the reason is, is because I have teenagers and I'm looking at everything through being a mom of a teen of teenagers right now. And when I read about your ways of connecting with people and teens and family members, I was like, Oh my god, I have to talk to her. So I'm so excited that you're here.

08:38

Thank you.

08:39

I want to talk about Sorry, I interrupted you. I'm so excited that you're here.

08:45

I'm so happy to be here.

08:47

Thank you,

08:47

you piqued my interest. I want to talk about underlying lessons should a water cut us and what we can do to establish deeper connections with our loved ones before as you say it's too late. Are you ready to dive in? Let's go. Okay. All right, Jr. We all know that we have childhood stories and childhood stories play a formative role and how we live our lives and the choices and the paths that we take. So can you tell us like a little bit about your childhood? I know a little bit about you. You have a brother? You were raised Jewish but not super religious. Can you dive into that a little bit?

09:27

Yeah, um,

09:28

I was raised to build family was super important to me when I was growing up. And we used to joke that at night like I would be in my bed. My brother would be in his bed. My mom and dad would be in their bed and I would say like good night mom and dad. Good night Ra. And then he would say like good night dark, good night. And we would just like oh, I'll say that. Um, but I mean, we were just, we were super close family and we were really close to my extended family, my grandma My grandfather's, my grandfather's passed away a lot earlier than my grandmother's did. And so my extended family played a big role in growing up. I was just kind of used to having people around all the time. We talked about everything. I remember when I first started dating my husband, and he came to meet my family and you know, would start spending time with us. He would, he would just say, like, y'all eat dinner for hours, because we were just people. And we would just talk. And even just when I was growing up, like normal week nights, yes, of course, you know, homework and meetings, and blah, blah, blah. But we really did sit around and talk. And that was one thing that my husband like he had to get used to, he was just like, sometimes I want to bang my head on the table, because we talk about everything.

10:49

Yeah, sorry. I do that in our house. Yeah, sure. My kids. Can we not talk about that? Why are we talking about that at the table?

10:58

There were no rules. Yeah.

11:00

But you know, I think that's sort of how I raised my daughters. And we talked about everything. And I think that's something that's really beautiful, that I that we carried over from my childhood.

11:12

And so you live where and you grew up, where

11:15

I live in North Carolina, where my husband's from, I grew up in Virginia, that's where my whole family lives. And that was really hard for me, because I wanted to live near my family. And just, you know, it just played out, my husband's an attorney, and then he ended up taking the North Carolina bar and blah, blah, blah, and we're here. But that's always been really hard for me, because I've always been a little bit homesick, even as a grown up even as a grown married woman. I would say goodbye to my parents, if we were visiting them for a weekend, and we would get in the car and drive home. And I would be like crying. You know, I don't want to leave. But um, so, you know, that's always kind of been there.

11:57

Yeah, I, my husband and I are in a unique situation, because I've said in other podcast episodes that we met in ninth grade. So we're both from LA. And so all of our parents off all four of them, they all live within three miles of us. So it's definitely a unique situation. And my kids have been able to grow up like that. And what's interesting about it is when I grew up, my grandparents are actually from the east coast, my parents originally from the east coast. And each set moved out here. And they all lived in the same apartment building on Ocean Avenue. So it was like I go to the second floor and visit one set. And then I go to the fourth floor and visit the other set. So I definitely know what that feels like.

12:42

I love that that's

12:43

unique.

12:44

It was really nice. I do have to say though, in middle school, when my grandparents had to pick me up, my grandfather had a peach colored Cadillac, I can't, it was so big and long. It even had like the foot rests in the back and my brother and I would like hide behind a tree like oh my god, that peach Cadillac is coming.

13:03

Especially because you don't when I mean, in middle school, you just didn't even want to be seen with your grandpa. Like a huge, you know, part of the size of the state of Montana. I mean, terrible,

13:15

but I loved being with them. And once I got in the car and duck down and we got a block away, then I was

13:20

like good. Yeah.

13:24

Okay, so what I want to do is I want to talk about this idea of connection and connecting with our teenagers and our kids. And I know you talked about this very special bag of letters that you found from your mom, and you talked about mother daughter journals that you had with your daughters. So we're gonna dive deeply into that in the middle of the interview, but I want to rewind for a second and just talk about this sort of setting the stage of where you were when these things started to pop up in your life about trying to reconnect or connect with your children and mother. So you were pregnant at 28 when you're when you learn your mom had cancer. And then Yeah, kinda give us a sense of what happened. The same

14:10

weekend I found out I was pregnant, I found out my mom had stage four melanoma, and I was in Richmond, and I took a pregnancy test. And we also got the news of her diagnosis like that same weekend and really over nine months, the bigger my belly got, the thinner my mom got and the sicker she was. And a few weeks after I had my daughter Zoey, who actually was early, my mom passed away and I actually ended up having her enrichment. I had gone to Richmond to spend time with my mom. I didn't even have a doctor and my husband wasn't there and I went into labor and crazy and I know it was crazy. But you know you just kind of do what you have to do and you weren't

14:56

sounds like a mom Melman thing we just do. Power shit. I out badly.

15:00

Yeah. So I ended up, you know, obviously after that time, like I came back to North Carolina, and I was on maternity leave. And at the time, I was a financial advisor, and I was a lot at home a lot in my house alone with a new baby. And at the same time, I was just feeling so devastated. And having lost my mom. And it was just a really difficult time for me. So I went back to work, and really just dove in to work. It was kind of like my distraction. And I ended up like having the best year that I ever had, as a financial advisor that year. And, you know, to me, like looking back that says so much, because someone who just had a baby and lost her mom should not have last year, but I was just completely trying to distract myself, I didn't want to deal with the pain, I didn't want to deal with the loss. And I was getting so many like positive strokes, like, oh, Dora, amazing, look at you, you're dealing with all this so well, and you're killing it at work, you know, and that just kind of fed the, okay, I'm not gonna deal with all the grief and the pain, I'm just gonna sweep that under the rug. And then just Time went by time just sort of went by and I ended up having another daughter. And then when I was when my kids were 11, and 14, and I was 42, literally out of the blue, I heard the words you have cancer. And that moment, literally, like changed my life forever. Because I remember just like sitting on the table in the doctor's office sobbing. And the doctor was doing a biopsy. And he ended up being a dad from the school that my daughter's went to. And so he was just, you know, super kind and thoughtful. And I was just sobbing. And I was just like, this can't be cancer, because I know how hard it is to live in the world without having your mom. And I can't do this to my daughters. This cannot be happening to me to my family. And it was devastating. But it was it was breast cancer. And, and I was lucky, you know, there's luck in cancer. And I never really understood that. But I found it relatively early and needed to be as aggressive as possible, because I knew for my own mental health and sanity and trying to kind of find my peace after I was going to need to be as aggressive as possible. And so I went through all the things, it was really, really hard, and life changing for sure.

17:43

Yeah. And you must have felt like, wow, everything that I went through, when I heard the news about my mom, now I'm gonna put my daughter's through and you have no control over it.

17:55

No control. And I didn't really even fully understand how my mom's illness impacted my own personal journey, in terms of like, what I went through when I was going through treatment that I was carrying with me, like all the baggage that I hadn't dealt with, from the loss of my mom, when I was going through my treatment. And I didn't even see it until I wrote this book, actually, until I sat down and read this book. And then there were some aha moments there, where I was just kind of like, Oh, well, that's why bla bla bla. That's why that was so hard. But, you know, I had a lot of guilt actually, um, guilt.

18:41

That work, where y'all have it?

18:44

Yeah, have it. Um, but I had a lot of guilt that I had breast cancer. And I had found it relatively early. And there had been so much research that God done in breast cancer, whereas 20 years or before my mom had melanoma, and her prognosis was just so bad from day one. And so I really had a lot of guilt in terms of like, what she went through versus what I was going to go through. And obviously, we can't, a lot of times guilt doesn't necessarily even make sense. It's just

19:21

there.

19:22

Yeah, I had to I had to make peace with a lot of things. And you knew that there were somehow going to be potentially life saving solutions for you and the stage that you are at, but there weren't any for her at the time. Yeah, exactly is in insane to even think about. Now I remember reading that you said that there was a nurse that said something to you in your journey that sort of pulled you out of the metaphorical swamp. What was that?

19:50

Yeah, there was this amazing nurse and I don't even know how she picked up on this. But she turned to me and she said Dora your mom's story. is not your story, you're going to need to write your own story. And literally, those are the best words that I could have heard from anyone in that exact moment, because I was carrying around so much baggage from my mom's story. I was terrified that my story was going to look like her story. I mean, I was terrified, I was gonna die. And I was so scared that I was gonna leave my daughter's, if you were, like I said, 11 and 14 at the time. And her saying that to me, I mean, I heard her voice over and over again, it really positively impacted me in such a huge way.

20:44

So how do you think that you gave yourself permission to really believe that your story wasn't the same as your mom's and it wasn't going to end in the same way? You know,

20:55

it took a lot of it took a lot of time, it took a lot of patience, it took a lot of, I had to do a lot of work on myself. After I went through, I went through chemo and surgery and radiation and more surgery, and I did genetic testing, and nothing ever showed up. And, you know, I got through everything. And the doctor said, Okay, darra time to go back to living your life. And I had no idea how to live my life anymore. Because I was so fearful. Because once you go through cancer, you know, you kind of learn, you kind of leave that innocence, if you will, in terms of thinking like, nothing bad's gonna happen to me, because you understand that shit can happen to you, the bad things can happen to good people. And so I was really afraid that, okay, if it happened to me once, who's to say it's not gonna happen to me again. And so I did a shit ton of work on myself. First of all, I decided not to get back to work, I quit my job. And we can talk about all this later. But I, yeah, I quit my job. And I just gave myself space to kind of read every possible thing. I could read and talk to an amazing counselor and started practicing Kundalini Yoga and meditating. And, you know, exercise started to look different to me. And even though I'd always been really health focused, that even started to look differently. And I just really tried to focus on everything that I could do in a positive way to help my body and my mental space. And that gave me a lot of comfort. And that's how I worked through the fear. Really, I mean, one day at a time,

22:34

one at a time. Yeah. Did you have a therapist or a coach? Like sometimes when you're in a swampy mass, emotionally and physically, you're like, Wait, where do I start? How do I structure my day? Am I gonna look up a YouTube on Kundalini Kundalini Yoga, like, how did you do it?

22:52

Yeah, you're gonna laugh. So I actually had two therapists, but they didn't know about this other.

22:57

That's so funny, because I had two life coaches. Oh, I

23:00

love that.

23:01

I never, I've never even told anyone to so far. Um, so I had two counselors, and they did not know about each other. And so I tried to kind of see them like, I would see one one week, and then I would see the other one. The next week, I was like, always seeing one every week. But one was one at the cancer center, like at the hospital, who specialized and, you know, helping people after they went through cancer. And then the other one was a normal, I put that in quotes, a normal counts a normal counselor, but they were really helpful during that season of my life. And I go to a new counselor now, which I believe I'm the biggest believer, I think every single person listening to this would benefit from talking to a counselor or a coach, or just, you know, we all have things that we can work through to get to know ourselves and to grow and be a better version of ourselves. And so my daughter's have counselors, like I just I think it's so important.

24:01

Yes, I agree with you. I mean, I talked about this in my podcast a lot that I had one main life coach, and another one too, and they just really had different approaches, and different things. And I think it started when COVID started, I started meeting with them. And it just gives you a structure a sense of accountability, like okay, I'm going to try these few things this week. And I know I'm going to talk to Carrie next week. So at least she's gonna ask me if I did them. So my guide me to do those things. And obviously not everyone is in the financial position where they can, you know, use a therapist or use a life coach. So I will say that there are other ways of doing it like having a friend that you're held accountable to taking a yoga class with a friend when there isn't COVID you know, so there are other there are other ways of doing it, but I just think that having accountability in some way is amazing. I mean, I know there are apps for it now, too.

25:03

Yeah, there are so many resources available now that we didn't have. I mean, my mom passed away, it's been 21 years, there are not the resources then that there are today. And so I talked about this a lot, like I felt really alone and going through that. Whereas today, there are amazing resources and just look, go on Instagram, and whatever you've been through, or whatever you're struggling with. There are so many amazing platforms where people are helping people in that realm that you really can connect with people. And that doesn't cost any money.

25:39

Right? And how would you say your husband fit into this whole scene? Because I know I mean, I have a husband and husbands don't like to see strong women struggle or bump up against things because they're like, Wait, you're the rock of the house? What's happening here? So how did he play into it?

25:59

So john, and I met when I was in college, I always laugh and say, like, I majored in Mrs. Because we met when I was a freshman, and he was a junior. And so we kind of grew up together, if you will, I mean, he's known me since I was 18. And he was really close to my mom, and, you know, felt that loss. And then when I went through cancer, I mean, that was terrifying for him as well. But he was very strong. And we just talked through a lot of things. And he was always, he's always very patient. Like we said earlier, like, I can be a little neurotic. And, you know,

26:37

I will say that, like COVID is actually kind of increased that a little bit. If you feel that way. I know,

26:44

it's different. neurosci it is, it's different.

26:47

And sometimes I feel like very justifiable, which I've told my husband so many times,

26:52

but um, you feel less guilty and crazy when it's not viable. Right,

26:58

exactly. But he's so he's bit he's used to my crazy, if you will, of course, he was just very always supportive, and always, um, you know, never judged me, like, was always willing to talk to me, in whatever mood that I was in. If I was feeling really scared, you know, I'd be like, I'm feeling really anxious and scared right now. Can we talk about like, we just always have talked openly and honestly. And so that didn't stop.

27:25

That's amazing. Because I think sometimes spouses can sort of shut down or

27:31

Absolutely, yeah, overwhelmed by

27:33

the whole situation. Now, he Sorry, go ahead.

27:38

Well, he has like years after that, you know, he did come out and say, you know, that was a really scary time for me, because the thought of having to raise our kids and you not being here, even though we, you know, we thought you were going to be okay, but you just can't help but let your mind go there. You know, he said, that was terrifying for him. And so we all kind of felt that. But he didn't really talk about that until years later. And it's been seven years since we went through that.

28:07

Okay, so leading into the next part of the discussion, obviously, a big theme, the theme of this podcast is the second half of life and the self recreation journey, and we're trying to inspire and normalize self recreation in the second half of life. You are a finance person, your mom passed away, you had two kids, you got a breast cancer diagnosis, you quit your job, then what happened? So how did you go from quitting your job to becoming a blogger, podcaster writer, speaker, there's a lot of steps.

28:41

So, I will tell you that I remember taking a walk in my neighborhood, before I went through breast cancer, I can even show you where I had this thought in, in my neighborhood, because I remember having a thought that I want to make a change. I don't want to be doing what I'm doing anymore. It's not like feeding my soul. And it's not speaking to my heart in terms of being a financial adviser. But on paper, it checks all the blocks, right? Like, you know, successful making a lot of money, you know, the way that society define success, if you will, yeah, measurable outcomes, exactly. measurable outcomes. And so I remember having this thought something major is going to have to happen to give me the courage to walk away from my job. And I can even like show you where I was when I had that thought. And then I just kept walking and literally a few weeks later, I heard the words do you have breast cancer? And so yeah, you know that saying, Be careful what you wish for. Um, yeah, but so after I went through everything, I still had that thought it was there in my mind, and I remember thinking to myself, okay, Dora, here's your chance. If you You go back to the way things were, then you're kind of, you're not making the most out of this opportunity, if you will, to kind of walk away to do something. So like, here's the chance to have the courage. Here's the big thing that had to happen to get you to make a change. So do it, take it. And so I thought about it for a long time. And finally, I just I told my husband, I was like, I okay, I'm not going back to work, I'm quitting my job, I had a little bit of resistance from him. Just because, you know, he liked dar working. And I mean, that's kind of what I was doing. And, you know, I

30:44

liked are working from like a financial perspective that you were bringing in income, or it was just that he knew you needed structure to think about your mom. Yeah,

30:53

I think all the things, right. It's just kind of the way we we did things, and it was a big change. And so I remember even my dad visiting, and I remember talking to him about it. And I remember my dad saying like, Dora, are you sure this is really what you want to do? And I remember saying, Oh, yeah, this is exactly what I want to do. I'm doing it. And I remember my dad saying like, Okay, if you're sure, I just want to make sure you think through this, because I had always wanted to major in journalism. And I'd always wanted to be a writer, but I was raised to believe that it was super important, especially if you are a female to be able to support yourself. And my parents never wanted me to be in a situation where I was dependent on my husband to pay my bills. And I said

31:40

to that I grew up in a house with two working parents that were equal breadwinner. Yeah, I can completely relate to that.

31:47

And that's, you know, that's an important lesson. And I think that, you know, that was a beautiful lesson. But at the same time, I knew that I really, I wanted to be a writer I wanted to write I wanted to find my voice. And so I quit my job. And I had absolutely no idea what I was doing at all. And I knew I needed to start a blog. I talked to a lot of people and they were like, you know, you need to start a blog, start writing, find your voice. Start a Facebook account.

32:19

That just seems so swampy and vague. It's like you're sitting in there and you're going Wait, what do you mean a blog? How do you start it? What is your day look like? Yeah, you

32:28

want them go all that?

32:31

Yeah. So I mean, I definitely. I connected with some other people that were bloggers and reached out to people that had platforms. Everyone was super kind about. Are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Okay.

32:52

You,

32:52

you literally left. Hold on. I'm so sorry. Oh, that's

32:55

so weird. No, it's fine.

32:58

Okay, um,

32:59

so I reached out to a lot of people, everyone was amazing in terms of their willingness to help me. And I mean, most people really were How

33:07

did you do it? You reach out to bloggers and said, Hi, I'm Dora. And I'm starting my blog. And I have no idea what I'm doing.

33:14

Yeah. Pretty much amazing. Yeah. And I had a friend who, that's what she did was she set up like actual website design, like she knew people that I could talk to, to do that for me. And so, I mean, I just reached out to a lot of people and look at the financial advisor, I was used to reaching out to people, and I was used to hearing the words No. And so that wasn't that I had no fear about that. Like, if someone said no, or they didn't have time to talk to me, or they didn't want to talk to me, like I didn't, that never has been an issue for me. And so, um, I ended up setting up crazy, perfect life, the website we were, my family was on vacation, and I literally had a list of like five names, and my family voted. And we all liked the name crazy, perfect life the best. And that's how I got that name.

34:06

And what does it mean? Yeah, I

34:07

love that you asked me that. So life is completely crazy. And things happen that we can't control. And it's uncertain, but at the same time, the very fact that we're alive, and that it's such a gift to have every single day makes it perfect, just because we are here and we are alive. And so that's how I that's how I named it crazy, perfect life.

34:32

It's interesting because it's like a juxtaposition of terms like crazy and perfect. It reminds me of the flexible neurotic. Like me like crazy, crazy crazy. But then at a certain point, we have to like take a deep breath, we have gathered the information that we need, and we have to just make a decision to move forward. So I like the jUx juxtaposition for sure. And doing my research on you and your path and your second half of life. I found that there were three Remain insights are nuggets that you were giving other women who also had dreams of starting a new career project. So I just want to quickly outline them. And then we can talk about each one, you briefly touched upon one of them. But the first one was willingness to try new things and put yourself out there. The second one was constantly reminding yourself what your why is. And the third one that you talked about was a willingness to hear no, I want to talk about each one quickly. So the first one was willingness to try new things. What do you mean?

35:34

Yeah.

35:34

So you know, you can stay in your comfort zone and stay the course. Or you can ask yourself, what do I want to do what I want to try what looks fun, what looks exciting, and literally just be willing to try. And success doesn't have to be attached to that. You can just try and find out if you like it, or if it goes well, and then take the next step, but just a willingness to explore. I mean, that's what makes life so fun. We don't have to have it all figured out. Or we don't have to know like the outcome in order to have the courage to start. Now,

36:10

were there any new things that you try that you were like, I'm not gonna do that? Yeah, oh, I

36:16

made a ton of mistakes. Absolutely. I'll do tons of mistakes that I tried that I did is I came up with this idea that I really wanted to have like notepads. And because I love paper, I love notepads. I love our like, I'm obsessed with it. So I, um, I had like, my own notepads does it like I designed them all. And then I designed two different kinds of card packs. And I was going to sell them on my website. And, you know, I learned that it's not really about fun to go to the post office every day. You know, I didn't have I didn't have it as a full time assistant that I wasn't didn't have anyone working for me. And I learned that I didn't really like having to put these orders together and go to the post office and do that every day. And so like that was something that I learned. And so now, I just, you know, I have my card packs, and I only sell them when I do live events. And if people like them great, and if not, that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. So you know, it was just that kind of thing. But that was like a big thing that I learned or I, I did, I designed a course like an online course, because everyone was like, You need to have your own online course. And so I did an online course called crush cancer, which is the name of my first book I read. And you know what, I realized? I didn't really want to have this course up. I don't want to be talking about just that. There's so many other things I want to be talking about. And so I took the course down

38:05

an interesting point, because I mean, even me in this process, a lot of people are like, wait, when's your book coming out? When are you doing this? What are you doing that I'm like, I'm not doing any of that right now. I have to keep my guard rails up. And just know that this podcast is my project right now. And I will add things when I can. But right now I'm just overloaded. And it's so easy to go into a candy store and see so many other things that you can add to your cart. But I can't do that right now.

38:38

So that would be like, the biggest thing I would say to anyone listening to this podcast right now is you don't need to compare yourself to other people, you are your own person. And just because other people are doing things doesn't necessarily mean that those things work for you. And so that really kind of brings me to finding your why. And I had to find my why so many times during this path because I would compare myself to someone else. And they like I said they would be doing an online courses, or you've got to be doing this, you know, and I would think maybe I really do need to do that. But then after, you know, I gave myself permission to kind of go back to my why. And that isn't what my y is. I mean for me at the end of the day my Y is besides my family and you know, always my kids will come first and my husband and and all of that. My Why is really, you know, finding my voice writing because that's what feeds my heart and soul and speaking and connecting and using my experiences to help others. That's my why. So when I gave myself permission to kind of like, focus my time and energy on what was important to me. That was a game changer.

39:55

Now do you have suggestions to people who are looking for what their Why? Or how to refine that?

40:03

Yeah, because our y changes, a change.

40:06

Yes,

40:07

we grow, we evolve. So what's important to me today might not be my wife three or four months from now. And that's okay. And that's actually what keeps life really fun. So I would just say to anyone listening, make a list of things that you really love to do that feel really good. And then things that you've always wanted to do that maybe you could come up with an excuse as to why you shouldn't do them. But don't write, right. Think about the excuses, like literally just make that list. And you know, then commit to finding or circling one thing on this list that you're willing to start doing like today, tomorrow, and instead of finding an excuse, fine, find a fucking way.

40:54

Yes, I agree with you. I mean, like, I could have sat for four years waiting until I found out the way to create the perfect podcast, but there is no perfect way. And you just have to build organically. And like you said, Just try new things and see what works and see what feels good. because like you said, If you create an online course, but your heart's not really in it, it's not part of your why it's never going to work.

41:19

It's not only

41:19

not going to work, but people are going to feel it. Yes. What happened to me was, I was talking about it, like, my team wanted me to do some videos, or whatever. And I was doing them. And I'm like, this just isn't, I'm not being authentic this, like, my heart is just not in this. And so I literally gave myself permission to say, you know what, I learned? This is not what I want to do. And it's okay to make mistakes, you know, why do we think we have to be perfect all the time. And it feels so much better to just kind of like, give yourself permission to say, Okay, I'm going to try it, and I'm going to make mistakes, I'm gonna mess up. That's just how I'm gonna learn every single successful person that you look at today, I promise you, they had a shit ton of failures, but they don't talk about them. You don't know about their failures. But there's no way that people who are very, very successful got to where they are without making mistakes. The difference is, they didn't give in when they made the mistakes. They persevered. They had resilience, they had grit, and they were willing to push through.

42:27

And they say the second half of life self recreation journey, not to say that it's harder than the first half, but it's about grit, you're older, you're more rigid, you're less flexible. And you're just working and a but you also have the positive of having more experience under your belt. Or you might have more self limiting beliefs. I'm too old to do this. I can't learn the technology. It just seems too hard. I can't keep up with Tick Tock and reels or whatever your topics are.

43:00

Yeah, but you know, that's a great point. But also, that goes back to what your why is. So like, for example, when reels came out, I was talking to my team, and I was like, Okay, do I need to do these reels, blah, blah, blah, I don't really want to do the reels. And so here's the thing, if I don't want to do the real, I guess what? I don't have to do the reals. Right. But what's my Why? You

43:24

know, and

43:26

I think if you sort of give yourself permission to kind of just figure out what lane you want to be in. And you know, of course, there's things that we have to do that we don't want to do. I don't love technology, that is not something that I enjoy figuring out that

43:45

is the worst part of this whole process for today. My husband's like, why not understand like, and he's not trying to be mean, but it's like, I've explained this 64 times, and I'm like, Yeah, but my brain is not getting it. And why don't you write a podcast and then call me. You know what I mean? Everybody has different gifts,

44:05

for sure. I mean, so yes, like technology is something that I don't really love doing. I've learned so much in there. Oh, definitely things that I do that I don't want to be doing. But also like, I am able to hire out things. Like if there's things I don't want to do, then I have a team that does those things for me, but I didn't have that right away. I mean, I definitely didn't have that right away. And so, you know, you kind of just sort of have to give yourself permission and make those mistakes, figure out what works for you. But if there's something you really don't want to do, and you don't really have to do it, then don't do it. I

44:39

know I just say fuck it.

44:40

Exactly. It's beauty. I think that's the beauty of being I'm 49 Yeah, you know, I don't have to compare myself to other people. I don't have to be doing what everyone else is doing. Quite honestly, the world doesn't need another version of someone else. I

44:58

mean that we're also not a middle school anymore. Middle School is about blending in. So nobody sees you exactly like the second half of life is stand out with your authentic voice. And if people like you great, and if they're not into it, then fuck it, let's move on. And that

45:12

is one of the most empowering things about being. For me. 49 is that like, I finally realize everyone's not gonna like me, and I don't care, right? Like me, like me and people who don't just aren't my people. And yeah,

45:27

I was a great

45:28

lesson to be able to teach your daughters to for sure

45:30

it is. And but the thing is, you can't just say it, you literally have to feel it, like you have to, you have to live it. But when you get to the point where you can really, really believe that with your whole core with your whole body, that like, I'm going to be myself. Because it feels good to be myself. And I don't want to pretend I don't want to try to be something that I'm not. When I when you give yourself that permission just to be your authentic self. It really is so empowering.

46:03

So this leads us to the third golden nugget of self recreation is being okay with no. Can you tell us quickly how you I mean, I know you're a financial advisor, and people were saying no to you, but how can we all of us be okay with no,

46:22

I think you know, if you want to play on whatever playground you want to play on, you gotta understand that you're going to hear the word. Now, no matter what, when you are looking for a literary agent, you're going to hear the word know, when they're pitching out to publishers, you're going to hear the word know, when you pitch out to do events or have interviews to be speaker or whatever. No, it's just part of the game. And you have to just decide that, okay, if I hear the word No, it just, it wasn't meant to be. And it doesn't mean that there was anything that you did, it doesn't mean it was about you. Um, and also, like we said, Not everyone's gonna like you. And that's okay.

47:12

I also think what you said about the personalization piece, it's like, it doesn't mean they don't like you as a person, it doesn't mean they don't think that you're not smart. It just means it's not a good match right now.

47:23

It's just not a good fit, I didn't

47:24

know doesn't always mean known forever. Also, because somebody that you out for something, you could go back a couple months later and get a different answer. So I think there's a little bit of like a persistence piece in there to

47:36

your persistence piece. Absolutely. Like it just Yeah, like family, do you want it? And if you want it, you're willing to keep putting yourself out there. I mean, my friend Garth Callahan, my podcast partner, he always has said this to me, and he and it's, it's something that is really resonated and been such a positive impact on my life. And he's always said, dhara, you know, what's the worst that could happen? If there's something you really want to do? And you're, you know, afraid, for whatever reason, and that can be afraid of hearing the word No, you know, what's the worst that can happen? So someone says, no big deal. They say, no, go on. The world is full of so many opportunities. The only one getting in our way is us and the stories we tell ourselves. And so we can do create be anything we want to be. We just have to have the courage to go for it.

48:34

And I think that's a great point, I think telling yourself what's the worst that could happen? I mean, most of the time, it's not a life or death situation. It might be ego bruising,

48:43

exactly most of the time. That's exactly what it is. You're gonna have to swallow some humble pie. Oh,

48:50

gosh. Good.

48:53

I always feel good. But, you know, you're, you can't get a ton of yeses if you never hear the word now. Correct. So,

49:01

I mean, now I just,

49:02

it's like doesn't even faze me, or like, I have a spreadsheet. I'm like, you know, you know, most of the time people are really nice about it. And that's, you know, keep moving on.

49:14

Okay, so I want to move into another main point in your book and that is the main point of connections and how we create those connections and you have really good advice on that. I want to fast forward for a second your first daughter's leaving for college. She's in your room with her friend. She's rummaging through your junk drawers, which you call them which I love because my husband's OCD and he does not have any junk drawers but I do I have an organized maker.

49:41

I have a lot.

49:43

I have an organized makeup drawer and then I probably have like three like messy drawers with like random shit that I have no idea where I should put it. So I like that you talk about your junk drawers. I feel like I I have a junk drawer for many things. So tell me what happened. She's rummaging around and she finds Something,

50:01

yeah, she's rummaging around, and she finds a journal that we had called the mommy daughter journal. And when my daughters were little, I had one of these for each. And they were just journals that I purchased at TJ Maxx. And they were a way for me to communicate to my daughter. So I would write to them and I would put the journal on Zoe's pillow or obvious pillow, and they would write back and they would put it on my pillow. But there weren't any roles. And sometimes I would walk in my bedroom, and I would see a journal sitting on my pillow. And, of course, that just made my heart feel so good. And I loved nothing more than writing back and putting it on their pillow. For when they walked, they came home from school, like I loved to do that for a surprise when they came in to their rooms. But there weren't any rules. And there was a way for us to sort of communicate, I could boost their self esteem if we were having issues. We could talk about it in a more of a less of an emotional way. Because sometimes I think when you sit down and write things on paper, the emotion can go out of it if you're especially if it's a heated

51:13

total.

51:14

Yeah. So it was just a fun little game that we

51:17

have where your kids when you started that.

51:20

I think that, um, I think Zoey was in? I don't know, maybe second or third grade obviously could right we're

51:32

at lmsc

51:33

Elementary School. Yeah.

51:34

I mean, my youngest daughter wasn't I mean, none of the words were spelled right. That's so cute. Yeah, you go, look. So they were at the age where they could write. There was lots of little pictures drawn. But of course, she they could both read. So I can't ever remember. But they were Oh my

51:54

god. In your book, you said that at that time. You were like a rock star to your kids because you were like a mom because they were teenagers. Now for people listening like myself who have a 14 year old and a 16 year old. You have daughters? I might be a little bit harder with sons. I'm not 100% sure. But like for me, I didn't start this. I haven't started it and Marin's not nine anymore. So what would be your recommendation for trying to frame it as a project for right now and not look at it as like, Oh, she's never gonna do it. She's 14?

52:32

Yeah. Okay,

52:33

so a couple thoughts. One is, on my website, there are free sharing journals that anyone can download. And they're written for a girl or boy, so does it matter if you have a son or daughter, um, you know, you can download them, you can print them out, you could try to do that. I know,

52:51

they just journal prompts, their journal

52:53

prompts, Mm hmm. So like you would write, you would look do one and you would answer it, and then you would give it or put it on your child's pillow. And then they would read that, and then there would be a journal prompts that they would that they would use. And it's just a way to kind of grow the relationship and connect and get to know each other better. So that tool is there. But it doesn't even necessarily have to be that way. Like you could literally get a sticky like a sticky pad. And you could write a little note, and you could put the note on their mirror in the morning. And you could just say, you know, just wanted you to know that I think you're amazing. And I hope you have a great day. And whatever you want to say though, you know, ask for your why, like, why do you want to do this, but I've always done that with my kids and my husband like we've always written like little notes and put them everywhere. That way you

53:48

refer to in your book as sprinkles.

53:51

Yeah, like little sprinkles of goodness.

53:53

Yeah, like Have a great day, or I was thinking about you and I know you have a test today.

54:00

Um, you could put it in their note, do you know their lunch? I mean, that's a lot of people like to do that in a lunchbox. Um, so what I'm saying is, there's lots of ways that you can write someone a little note and sprinkle a little bit of love and goodness in their day. It doesn't have to be like, here's a journal, right? Because I think with older kids, to be perfectly honest with you, like, it might not be something that they buy into. Right now. My

54:33

personality. Totally,

54:36

yeah. Oh, absolutely. 100%. But I think what I would say especially is there are new rules. So like, try it. And if it doesn't work, then try something else. Never give up on trying to connect with your kids. No, but yeah, just logistically speaking, like, Did you have any like conceptual rules like, okay, let's turn this back in, in a week or, or it was just literally whenever you felt like it,

55:16

you don't have rules, because if you have rules, it becomes yet another thing that they have to do another expectation that they feel like they have to meet. And you don't want someone to write you a note because they feel like they have to, you want them to write you a note, because they feel like they want to reach out to you. And so there, there cannot be any structure around it.

55:34

I would say I get it, I get asked this a lot. Like, How can parents of teens grow their relationship? And there's a lot of things they could do. But I mean, I would say the number one thing is that if you want to have a close relationship with your team, you have to you have to persevere. You have to be willing to put in the time and energy and you can't say like, Oh, well, they aren't meeting me halfway. It's not important to them, and then back off. No, you have to show up, even if you're not getting what you want back because they're going to feel it remember it and you eventually will get what you want back.

58:28

But I agree with you. I mean, my daughter last night before, while I was you know preparing for today. She's like, Mom, you know, I love cooking. And I know you're really busy. But can you pick one night this week where you just like stand in the kitchen with me while I cook. And all I wanted to do was be like, Yes, I want to do that. But oh my god, I'm so busy. So I said like, thank you so much. Thank you for reaching out to me, I would love to do that. I just can't do it tonight. But tomorrow when my recording is over, and I finished like all these other things. I'm I'm here I'm there. And I think setting up the expectations has been like a game changer for me this year, because my kids are not used to me not being 100% available all the time to them. They are used to meet you know, they're texting me and I'm responding immediately, or they need something and I'm there. And over this past year, I haven't been as available. And it's even harder because they're home on zoom school. So they're like, Wait, you're up in your room and you're never coming out. I'm like, No, I'm not never coming out. I just need these three hours to complete what I'm doing. So I think you're right. I think it is sort of keeping the lines of communication open. And I've really been working on like trying to set expectations so that I'm not always disappointing someone.

59:50

Yeah, um, but also I think it's good for them to see that you have your own thing. Yes. I think that it's important for kids to realize that. I mean, for Before I do any podcast interview, I literally have a family group chat. And I say about to do this about to do an interview. Do not text me.

1:00:09

Oh my god, me too. I'm like, don't run the blender. Don't order pack maids.

1:00:14

So I sent this out, you know, because I don't, I'm not and I just say, I will not be responding to your text for the next hour and a half, or whatever I'm doing

1:00:23

and they're just not used to it.

1:00:25

Yeah. And they, but they've learned, hmm, no, kids are very resilient. And they learned but also kids. They, I know for my daughters. They are very proud of what I've created. And I know that they love seeing me following my dreams. And I think it gives them permission to follow their injury.

1:00:46

Yeah, no, I love that. Okay, so this leads me to the next big topic in your book, The Ziploc bag of letters that you found. So your daughter's rummaging through your drawers, she finds a mother daughter journal, you guys are like, wow, this was such an amazing time in our lives. When we had this journal together. You think to yourself, God, I wish I had had that with my mom. And then what happens? Like a Ziploc bag appears? What happens? Navara? Yeah, exactly. Aladdin.

1:01:15

Yeah. So I just, you know, I feeling really like missing my mom and feeling like God, I wish I had something like that for my mom. And that feeling just kind of stays with me for a little while. And when I say a little while, I mean, like, a little bit of time. And then Time goes by and I remember, wait a second. There is a bag of letters in your den, and a piece of furniture

1:01:45

that

1:01:46

is filled with letters that you received from the first time. I went to sleepaway camp at age nine until I graduated from college. And most of the letters were written by my mom and my two grandmothers. And what happened was the first time I went to camp, at the end of that summer,

1:02:07

I

1:02:09

packed the letters that I received in a bag, came home stuff that bag in my closet. And then every time someone gave me a birthday card, or a little note or something, I just stuffed it in that bag. And then I went to camp again. And then I came home that summer, and put those letters in consolidate them in that bag. And then I went to college, and came home every year after college.

1:02:35

So it's on you to collect all this. Yeah.

1:02:38

And it was totally not by it was not intentional at all. I mean, when I say things, I've always been that kind of person. Although I'm trying very hard now to kind of like, let go.

1:02:52

Yeah, but struggle with that too.

1:02:55

But you know, back then child version of Dora was little Dora was definitely a saver, and I save things. And so it wasn't intentional. It just made sense to me, right? This is where the letters go. And so what happened was when my dad when my dad got remarried, and moved out of the house that he lived in with my mom, that bag of letters made its way here because he had cleaned out the closet and everything that was in the closet came here. And then it just when I saw it, I just stuffed it in the back of this piece of furniture in my house. And I've lived in this house for over 23 years that I live in now. And so it's just been there. And so after that experience with Zoey, I thought, you know, gosh, I wish I had something like that for my mom. And that's when I remembered, Hey, wait a second, you do have a bag of letters. And I have never ever open that bag up or re read those letters, since they initially were put back in the bag. So one night, I finally had the courage to open up that bag. And I was blown away by what happened when I started opening up the letters. And I cannot believe like how connected to my mom, I felt I couldn't believe how I was getting to know her better from my adult perspective. Because when she heard a lot of the letters, she was raising her kids, me and my brother. And so it was literally like getting a glimpse into who she was from a perspective that I've never had before. And they were also just there were so much wisdom there and I was blown away by that whole experience. So I took all the letters I put them behind me you can see a table. There were 100 100 they were everywhere. I started like I sorted them like in piles like My grandmother's letters, my mom's letter. I mean, it was just the thing. And I couldn't stop reading them. And it just, it was literally like, you know, hearing my mom's voice, and I hadn't heard that for so long. I've missed her first for 20 years. And then to finally have that was like, the biggest gift that anyone could have, could have ever gotten.

1:05:23

And so would you say that opening that bag of letters helped you do the grieving that you never really did?

1:05:31

Yes. 100%, did

1:05:32

you start writing your book after that? What was the order?

1:05:36

So I had, first of all, I was working on another project at the time. And I could not stop thinking about these letters, and how powerful and how much it impacted me. And I felt like there was the book there. And so I literally just started writing, I had no outline, I had no idea I just read from my heart, and, and cried a lot while I was writing. I mean, there's so many times I would be sobbing and writing at the same time. But I mean, I was working through a lot of the grief that I had never let myself worked work through before. And so that was a gift for me that I gave myself, I think a lot of readers say that they can feel that, and then that helps them as well. And so then I completely put that other project away focused on the book. And I'm so proud of I am my mother's daughter, it's not

1:06:39

about the book. And that's why I wanted to interview you. Because I think there's so many moments in there that we can use as moms or as just as people have using to deepen our connections with our loved ones. Like you said before it's too late. And you talk about, I mean, obviously, everyone's gonna get off this podcast and go rummaging through their house to see if we have a bag of letters, right? Yeah, I know, I don't have a bag of water. So if someone doesn't have a bag of letters, I think it's interesting that you give sort of two other solutions, and one of them being creating family rituals, and one of them being creating another, creating a set of letters that you've written to your children. So first, I want to talk about quickly about the idea of establishing a family ritual to remember someone because not everyone's going to find the letters. And I also think there's just value in the family ritual itself. So will you tell us about how you did that with your daughters to remember your mom?

1:07:46

Yeah,

1:07:46

so um, I really struggled with trying to figure out a way that my daughters could know my mom. I mean, it was something that was always on my mind. And one of just the biggest heartbreaks of my life is that my daughter's never got to know my mom. And so when my kids were little, I just was so struggling to figure out a way to bring my mom into their lives. And so my kids loved eating ice cream. And my mom adored hot fudge sundaes, that was like one of her things. And so, every year on my mom's birthday, and on the anniversary of her death, we just started having hot fudge sundaes. And so that was a really beautiful way for us to honor my mom and I would talk about my mom and share stories, but also like, What kid doesn't think it's fun to like, go get an ice cream sundae, and I'm kind of a health nut always have been. And so we don't eat ice cream. Like, that wasn't something that I made for my kids all the special occasion. It was special, it was a special occasion. Yeah. And so, um, and I would talk about my mom, while we did that, like, I would share a funny story, you know, I would share a funny memory or an age appropriate memory or just, you know, depending upon what we were doing, or what was going on in our lives. But it was a really beautiful way that I think, you know, people if someone liked gardening, you know, they could try to plant a plant or something to honor someone they've lost. Or if someone liked cooking, and there's a special recipe, they could bake that recipe and carry that person into their their lives. I mean, there's so many ways, right?

1:09:27

So it's basically your eyes being out the meaning that that love one had or a hobby or a passion, marking it, but I also think it's important outside of memories of someone lost, having traditions with children and teenagers. It's It's fun. Yeah, I mean, my father in law loves to play Scrabble and rummy cube. And

1:09:53

I love Rami too.

1:09:55

I mean, I'm not a game person. It's like, my worst nightmare. By My husband's family loves it and my kids know how to play. So my father in law will send an email like, okay, Friday night or Saturday night, you pick game night at my house with dinner. And even though my kids are 16, and 14, they're like I'm in and I'm like, really? If I said that, you'd be like, Get away from me. But because it's a ritual, and it's attached to seeing their grandfather, it's like something that makes sense.

1:10:28

I love rituals, so much. And I've noticed that my kids love ritual.

1:10:34

Yes, like, I have my youngest daughter's a senior in high school now. And she just even is talking a lot lately of like, you I love and we do blah, blah, blah, or, you know, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. It's just, I think that she's, it's it just it solidifies memories.

1:10:55

Like, even for Thanksgiving, my dad always makes Thanksgiving dinner. So Mike, you know, up until this COVID year, so my kids would always look forward to going to my parents house and helping my dad make the turkey and make the stuffing. And they're all these sort of memories that the you know, the year gets stacked with that sort of gives you something to look forward to for the next thing.

1:11:18

Absolutely. And also like rituals, a normal daily life, like waffle Wednesday, we used to do that, like we would I would make waffles for breakfast in the morning before they went to school.

1:11:30

We ordered deli sandwiches from Bay cities on Sundays,

1:11:34

broccoli, stuff like that. It actually really does make a difference. Yeah.

1:11:39

No, I love that part of your book, because it just reminds us to take that time to create those connections. Now, if someone can't find a bag of letters, or is there any other way that you can see connecting with people? I mean, I know you talk about that you There are four types of love letter writing, can you tell us like quickly what each one is and how we can use that?

1:12:07

Yeah,

1:12:08

so there is the just because letter which is sounds just like it is it's a letter that's written just because just because you want to say hi to someone, or let them know you're thinking or tell them what's going on in your life. And the majority of the letters that I had were just because letters. And that was really beautiful, because that's what taught me the most about the kind of person my mom was, and what she really liked and her personality, her personality really came through. Then there's the special occasion letter, which is a letter written at a graduation, or a wedding or Bat Mitzvah or christening, or just you know, a special occasion. And the writer puts a little bit more time when writing that kind of letter. Because usually it's marking a special occasion. So they might say something like, this is what I really hope for you, I'm really proud of you because or, you know, there's a little bit more intention. There's a thank you note, which is, you know, written because you want to say thank you to someone. And then there's a legacy letter. And this is an incredibly powerful letter, it's a letter that's written to be given at the death at your death for whoever you choose to write that letter to, my mom did write a legacy letter to me and my brother and my dad, and the morning of her funeral, my dad came into my room, and he gave me my letter and gave my brother his letter. And, you know, it was just an unbelievable, selfless gift. Because that, to me, that just meant that my mom was thinking about me, she knew she was gonna die. But she wanted me to know how loved I was. And so I really encourage people to think about writing a legacy letter when they're completely healthy when there's nothing going on. Because my the letter that my mom wrote to me was very, very short, because she was really sick when she wrote that letter. And I know that she didn't get to say so much of what she would have wanted to say because she just was so ill. And so I think a legacy letter does is an incredibly meaningful gesture. And I encourage people to put a lot of effort into it, like what do you really want to say to the people that you love and care about? And in the book, I talk a lot about how and give tips and pointers and,

1:14:26

and a sample always have to be one letter, right? I mean, it can know series of letters. So like, let's say you and your kids 14 or maybe you do it once a year, that there's a whole group of letters. I really, when I read the book, I was like, Oh my god, I'm gonna do all these things. I want to try to see if Marin will do the mother daughter journal. It depends on the mood she's in. I think sometimes she'd be like, yes, I'm so into it. And other times she'd be like, and whatever. And I

1:14:55

think you just have to be like, whatever I get is what I get. Yeah, but um I think I love that I was doing an event recently and someone said that she was going to buy a little box and give the box to her son. And they had just her son had they had just had their first child. So she had a grandbaby. And she said, Every year, she is going to write a letter

1:15:22

to a beautiful grandchild

1:15:24

and ask her son to put the letter in the box.

1:15:29

How amazing is that? It's so beautifully. So funny that you're saying that love that last night when I was thinking about you in this talk today, I really remember that I have this box in my closet. And it's not much bigger than a shoe box. And I'm not an organized person in terms of like scrapbooks or anything like that I'm more of like, the shit in the corner person. Um, and in this box, there's no organization, there's no Marie Kondo, it's literally throw shit into a box that I don't want to lose or forget. And I started to look through it. And I was like, Okay, here's Jake's little blankie that was like a piece of his pajamas. And here's like a third grade report that Marin wrote on a panda. And it's all these random things, and there's no organization to it at all. But the point that I was gonna make is, I think sometimes we don't do these scrapbook key or memory type things, because it just seems like such a fucking project. And like, Who has time for that, I mean, obviously, we have to make time but

1:16:32

feels overwhelming,

1:16:33

it just feels overwhelming. And it's never going to be like a perfect way. So my, like, haphazard way of doing it was, I'm just gonna throw all these things in the box. And at some point, I'll go through it. So at least I know that it's there. And I have it. And of course, now that I've read your book, and my husband, like I've said, is like OCD and throws everything away. I'm like, if you find a card in the house, do not throw it away. Find the bat the ziplock bag of all the cards that I've written to the kids at camp, if you throw it away, it's over. So everyone's on like alert for like memorabilia. But I think it's kind of good. So I think that the random box of memories is helpful, because it just sort of takes the pressure off. I'm sure there's a better way of doing it.

1:17:22

But so that's the whole point is there's no better way. Because anyway, is exactly the right way. So whatever works for you, and whatever feels right for you is right. I love

1:17:35

that. But I also think another great point here is teaching our kids to keep their stuff, because I'm not sure it's 100% natural, like, Oh, my grandma gave me a card, like, okay, whatever goes in the trash can, or my mom sent me the 15th birthday card. And I don't think my kids are in the habit of keeping things. Yeah, after I read your book, I'm like, saying to my kids, okay, you're each gonna have a box in your room where you throw your shit into. And it seems so silly, but it's so important.

1:18:10

Oh, it's so important. I was doing an event recently with my daughter, Zoe, who's at college. And I'm in the middle of the event, she took out a box of letters that so since she's been in college, I've been sending her a letter one letter a week. But I haven't recently because of COVID, because I honestly don't want her to go to the post office at school. So I'm like, I don't want to I don't want to be putting her in it. more exposure. So I'm like, no letters right now. But, um, but she had been, she's, she's like, Mom, this is where I keep the letters that you send me. So like, that made me so happy. And I didn't know she was doing that. So I think our kids really, they're gonna save them. Because

1:18:54

I also

1:18:54

think she's also saw the impact that that ziplock bag of letters had on

1:18:59

this before. I mean, before I even read the book. I mean, she just Oh, yeah, she was saving the letters. And that's amazing. I love that. Yeah. It felt good. It felt good to save on.

1:19:12

I just love so many of these ideas, because they're all things that we would randomly think about a different times in our lives. But your book puts it all together as sort of like a how to connect with your loved ones. And I feel like my teenagers are like, almost out of the house. And I want to do some of these things before. I don't want to say never too late. Yeah, I don't want to ever stay late, but just I can kind of like get ahead of it now. You know, wow, I

1:19:41

love that. But it's never too late. I mean, even now during the pandemic, like I sometimes just think, okay, I want to write a letter to someone, and I'll just write a letter. And it's not a long letter. It's just like a little, just words from my heart. But I every time that happens, someone they get it and they are just so excited

1:20:01

to get Do you think there's a difference between the written word and typing because like my mom and I have the worst handwriting ever, like the worst.

1:20:10

So I get asked that question a lot. And I would say again, there's no rules, right? Like, do what works for you, I would just say that for me personally, like I'm, I'm a pen to paper, I love the whole experience. But if you are someone that likes to type, type it, but print it out, don't just email it, because a lot of times when we email, like, the emails get lost, and we just don't save the emails, they get buried with all the other emails. So I would just say print it out.

1:20:37

Now I love that idea. Because even with my kids at camp, my mom would write an email every day to my kids that they can't gave to them. And when I when I picked up my daughter from Camp, she had the Ziploc bag with the cards in it from me, but she also had all the printed emails for my mom. So that's amazing. Yeah, I thought that was kind of funny. Well, anyway, Dora, I want to thank you so much for diving deep into ideas of how we can create more meaningful connections with our loved ones. You talk about mother daughter journals, you talk about writing four types of letters, creating family rituals, and traditions, and your story and insights are so moving, and I just loved your book. In this podcast we're taking and talking about a lot of small steps. And with our golden shovel, we're digging and digging through so many layers. We're asking ourselves questions like what small step Can I take today, and you answered and gave us a lot of ideas, it seems like you knew that your grief about the loss of your mom was sort of taking over your life. And with the divine intervention of finding the bag of letters, it gave you the strength to let go and begin to self recreate. And the second half of your life, you created a blog, a podcast, you wrote books. And I think most importantly, your learning, you learn to live more in the present moment. And I think a lot of us are trying to do the same thing. And all of this is so courageous, and I thank you for sharing your insights with the world.

1:22:13

Thank you so much.

1:22:14

I love how insightful you are.

1:22:16

Thank you,

1:22:17

that you really are. And it's just thank you for I've really

1:22:23

tried with this podcast to not just pick guests who have, you know, this, this or this, but it's really thinking about what ideas I want to learn for myself as a person as a parent, and giving listeners sort of this big basket of all these different things they can pick from, and I just love doing it. But before we finish up, I want to do a quick rapid fire called fun shit about dhara. So there's no right or wrong answers. I know you're a perfectionist like I am. So we're going to go here we go. Number one, what's next on the bucket list?

1:23:00

I am working on a fiction book.

1:23:02

So

1:23:03

great fiction. And I just said you know what, and I've written 10,000 words and I'm having a lot of fun.

1:23:10

That's awesome. Anything that you have learned that's now on your bucket list after quarantine.

1:23:17

After quarantine. Um, you know, just you got to stay true to yourself. And you have to live with your own personal beliefs. And if someone else doesn't believe the way you believe then you know screw it not everyone has to agree with you. You still have to stay true to what you believe is true.

1:23:36

Love that. Secret pleasure.

1:23:40

Secret pleasure bingeing Netflix

1:23:46

your favorite TV show

1:23:48

right now we're watching shits Creek and we're almost done with it

1:23:52

and I know worse. I know I know. What's your favorite beauty treatment?

1:24:00

Oh gosh, I love taking Epsom salts baths at night and just soaking in my bathtub with like candles and you know part of

1:24:09

your daily ritual

1:24:11

that is part of my daily ritual Yeah, not I feels like it's not every day because you're gonna laugh when I say this this is so be me being completely open. But like my house is not as clean now as I really want it to be. My bathroom is not as clean as I wanted to

1:24:27

like there's some hair there for

1:24:30

I think maybe I started taking more showers.

1:24:35

So funny. I know and that the absent salt in the oil is such a residue in the bath. I know because my skin gets really dry so I put coconut oil because for

1:24:48

oil is my solution to every problem.

1:24:51

Yes, she taught my guest talked about putting coconut oil in the bathtub to revive your vagina and skin and so like now There's always this like weird code of whoo things do you do?

1:25:08

Well, I meditate and I have my crystals, I practice Kundalini Yoga. I think that's all pretty woowoo and

1:25:17

meditation do you do?

1:25:19

So within Kundalini, there's a lot of different kinds of meditations that you can do. Um, so usually there's like a meditation and like a movement or a mantra or something. And so it is definitely out of the box.

1:25:33

Yeah. Do you listen to an app? Or do you

1:25:35

know, I mean, my people I follow I actually give her a jacket from Oh, I love for her I do a person

1:25:45

structure it,

1:25:46

Mama. Um, so I you know, I'm in North Carolina. And so I watch I just got a Rama online Rama TV, and she would love to know that we're talking about this.

1:25:56

I promise I'll be in my show notes, by the way. Yes.

1:25:58

Um, and I just like pick one, that there's a million of them that are like, come out every day. And you just I'm a subscriber and every day like, I just find one if I have an hour that I do an hour or if I have longer it just depending upon what's going on in my life. You can also like type in like, you know, stress and then there's specific ones that are geared towards stress. So for

1:26:25

the listeners, it's guru, Jagat g u r u and then the second word is JG at. Yeah. And she has something guru. Jagat is a person. And she has a panel called Rama TV ra Ma. I can't believe I even know this.

I felt a little bit ungrounded when the Coronavirus first hit and was watching. We all

1:27:25

did.

1:27:26

Yeah. And I will say that, like doing and practicing Kundalini every day was incredibly helpful for my mental health and grounding. 

1:28:13

Yeah. What was the last thing you ordered from Amazon?

1:28:17

Huh? Okay, you're gonna laugh at this. So I love pens. So this is my favorite pen. It's an orange pen. It was an $18 pen from Amazon. Oh, I don't even know the name of it. But I only had one. And I literally, like if I was going to be in my room writing in my journal. I was like, I have to be using my pen. So go find my pen. And then like, I was like, This is ridiculous. And it's $18 right. So like, last week, I literally sat down and I ordered like three more and now I can have them everywhere.

it was intuition natural or did you have to work at it?

1:29:43

intuition is natural. For me. What I have to do is I have to shut my brain up so that I can hear and feel the intuition that wants to come through.

1:29:52

Cool. We all have to work on that. What's the smallest thing we can do today to shit to start shift towards self recreation.

1:30:03

Stop telling yourself, stop, watch what you tell yourself, watch the story that you are telling yourself and be willing to shut the story down and rewrite it. And know that you have the power to do that.

1:30:49

Yeah, what we say to ourselves, impacts us in such a great way. And half the time, we don't even know what we're saying to ourselves. We just don't even listen, we don't hear it. But it's getting into our subconscious.

1:31:01

Yeah, because they say like 60 to 70% of our thoughts are already created in our subconscious brain, which is even think about, what would your bottom line advice be on finding the sweet spot and the second half of life,

1:31:17

it's your attitude, be excited about this time, you know, every year that you're alive is another year you weren't guaranteed to get. And so every day, you have the power to figure out how you want to how you want to make that day or what you want to look like. But don't be afraid to try new things. And, you know, make create your own magic.

now that we have shoveled our shit for today, I hope everyone loved DARS golden nuggets as much as I have. I love digging deep with you with our golden shovels today on this podcast. If listeners want to find you, where can they find you.

1:33:23

They can go to crazy perfect life.com that's my blog, and there's links that will take them to my book. Also they can get the five free gifts that I talked about that are downloadable and they can find me on Facebook at crazy perfect life and on Instagram at crazy perfect life.

1:33:40

Okay, and your the name of your podcast is it thrive

1:33:44

the podcast with Garth and Nora, and it's an orange logo and they can find that on my blog and on my blog as well on my website.

1:33:52

Okay, so I want everyone to think about shit that they can start doing today. One small step. I want to thank dhara for sharing her story, her book her tools and establishing deeper connections with our loved ones in the here and the now. And the advice on knowing why knowing your why in the willingness to hear no in the second half of life. And hence this podcast dark hurts. Thank you so much. Oh,

1:34:20

thank you so much. I love this. Joy.

1:34:23

Yeah,

1:34:23

so fun. I feel like we could be BFFs

1:34:28

I love this so much. Thank you