Episode 15 transcript

00:05

Hi, good peeps. This is the next episode of the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic. Today I have a very special guest. You have heard the name before if you haven't already read her books and follow her blog living within Tet. milega is the CEO of intent calm. She speaks with audiences all over the world. Yes, this is Mallika Chopra. She speaks at events like TEDx. The California women's summit and Prevention's are three summit. maleek is a graduate of Brown University and the Kellogg School of Management, meditation experts specializing in helping our children learn to find calm in the storm. Melissa is the author of three books, including two books for teaching kids meditation and relaxation techniques. Just breathe and just feel and her best selling living with intent book that we're gonna dive in today. maleek his book, living with intense spotlights how we can all live with more intent and meaning in our lives. She actually mapped out the steps for living with intent, we are going to dive deep into that. Hi, milega. Hi, thank

02:33

you for having me. I'm

02:34

so excited to have you. I feel like we've been planning this and it's finally here. My intentions for this episode, as it is for all my episodes of the flexible neurotic is for us to dig deep milega we're going to dig deep with our golden shit shovels, and an edgy conversation about how we can find our sweet spot between neurotic and chill. In this case, we're going to find this sweet spot in learning to live our lives with more intent, meaning and calm. We are going to dig deep for the audience and trying to normalize our layers of stress and imbalance and outline moluccas steps in what we can do about it. We can't just take a chill pill as much as I'd like to, we have to put the work into ourselves and our families to intentionally live. Listen up. If you want to live more intentionally. I am. Are you ready? milega? Yeah, let's

03:29

get started. Okay,

03:31

we're going to explore living with intent, what it looks like how we can cultivate it. In your book, you in your books on meditation and living within 10 you go through specific golden nuggets of actionable steps to living with more intent. Can you first define for us what intent is what it means? And how it's different from a goal? Sure.

03:55

So I describe intense as the seeds of your deepest desires. So, you know, when we ask ourselves, who am I What do I want, how can I serve? What are those desires that come up and so intense are very different from goals, intense really come from the soul, whereas goals come from the mind. Goals are often task oriented, have an end, you know, check off point whereas intense really are about our life's journey, our aspirations and who we aspire to be as individuals, members of our community and citizens of Mother Earth.

04:36

And so do you Is there ever a point where goals and intense intersect or they're just absolutely different?

04:43

Yeah, no, absolutely. So, you know, there is a time for goals and smart goals. And that's why I outlined in my book, a path to intention where goals take place in that last step.

04:57

And to get to that

05:00

So yes, there is. But when you know what you want, then it's easier to achieve goals. Because they're coming from a deep place of really a soulful place of why you're doing what you're doing.

05:16

So can you give me an example of an intent that you have in your life?

05:22

Yeah, so for me, my intentions are to live with a sense of gratitude and purpose, to connect with people that I love, to have energy and inspiration to get through my days. So you know, those are very different from saying, Oh, you know, I want to exercise for an hour every day, or I want to lose 10 pounds, you know, it's really the deeper desire is that and then the goals come after that.

05:51

It also seems like the goals could also be part of the mechanism to get there. So you are going to your goal is to exercise daily so that you get to your intent of feeling better about yourself or feeling more energetic. Exactly. And the goals change.

06:08

That's the other thing, intensity, really, I describe them as seeds that we plant in the ground, we often don't know the beautiful tree or blossom that it will become, I don't know when it's gonna come. And you don't know when it's going to come. But you trust that by nurturing that intent, it will grow into something beautiful.

06:27

That's such a beautiful metaphor. I love that. And I know that you talk in your book a lot about your amazing father, Deepak who we all know. And if you don't know, then I don't know you're living under a rock. But can you tell us a little bit about what your father taught you and your brother about intent?

06:47

Sure, when you know, so I learned how to meditate when I was nine, which was a time when my father also discovered for himself a meditation and spiritual practice. So my brother and I were the guinea pigs for all of my dad's various experiments. And one of the things he would have us do is after a meditation, he would have a say a phrase that goes like this, it says, I am responsible for what I see. I choose the feelings I experience and set the goals I will achieve. And everything that seems to happen to me, I ask for and receive as I have asked, so he would ask us as kids what you asked for, and we would say things like tickets to the Celtics, a trip to Hawaii new clothes, and he listened patiently. But then you'd say okay, but what about asking for love, inspiration, connection, a sense of purpose. And we were taught on a daily basis to ask for the quality is in our life that would make us happier, healthier, more connected, and a purpose. So that really, is what intentions are, they represent those deepest desires. And I think as children, my parents guided us to look for those qualities in our life.

08:02

That's beautiful. In this podcast, we're trying to normalize for everyone, but especially women in the second half of life on, you know, knowing that it's sometimes hard to figure out exactly what your intentions are, and what the paths are to get there and to help sell free create. And I know that those three questions that you mentioned earlier, I just want to go back to them for a second and have you expand on each one? And they were Who am I? What do I want? And how can I serve? How can we as listeners take those three basic questions, and help us build our intense for our lives?

08:44

Yeah, so um, first of all, I would say intense, you know, evolve and change and the mechanisms change. So, you know, what I wanted in my 20s is very different from what I wanted in my 30s, my 40s. And now approaching my 50s. Also, you know, things change as you become a parent or as you become an arm to or as you become a caretaker for, you know, elders. So, it's really important to keep checking in. So the first question Who am I is actually one of the most important ones because it's going to a space that's beyond the labeling ourselves. So you know, I can label myself as a mother, a daughter, a sister, but then I can label myself as an entrepreneur and an author and a speaker, and a, you know, businesswoman but what happens when I'm no longer a businessman, a woman, you know, like, I don't have my company right now. And so does that change who I am. And so the exercise of who I am is really going beyond the labels, connecting to who we are on a spiritual level. And I think when we feel that connection, it gives us a lot more confidence that as we change and the roles we play, we still are anchored in who we really are.

10:13

So, no, I was gonna say so do you think like in my position right now I've said in this podcast like I've just turned 45 and 45 and a half. My kids are teenagers, I have this degree that I used 15 years ago and obviously have used here and there but haven't had a, quote, real career or job in the past 15 years. So now that I'm not an empty nester, obviously, but my kids are teenagers, that's a different role for me, they're not needing me in like the day to day. So I have found myself asking that question like, Who am I like, I'm not the person who's feeding them every second of the day, like they can order Postmates themselves with permission, you know, I'm not, my son just turned 16 he can drive himself places with my car. That's such a crazy concept for me. And it's, it's hard to because you are needed in that role, which is so much a part of your identity. And as we head into this kind of like mid life time, some of those roles are changing.

11:21

When I think that leads to the second two questions, what do I want? And how can I serve? First of all, I think and I'm in the same

11:31

How old are your kids again,

11:33

so 16, a 10th grader will say, one who will head off to college, she's 18. And you're 18. But so you know, I've spent a lot of time thinking about this and actually reinventing myself and my role. But it goes back to the fundal mental point that I first made, just because the rules change doesn't mean that I'm changing, anchored in feeling a connection to self, which I do through my meditation practice. So

12:09

your anchoring is done through the meditation and reminding yourself of who you are, that you're a person outside of being just a mom.

12:19

Absolutely. And I think in my own process, what I've reflected is that in being a mom, it often has felt that, you know, I use it, you know, as a way of service service, not just to my kids, but to myself. So going to that question of how can I serve? I think this is an important time for women to kind of say, Okay, how can I serve myself, my family, my community and my world. And so you know, and that evolves at every phase, I'm sure in 10 years, we'll be in another. And so that's why I believe that we just keep checking in. We use, you know, different skill sets that we have developed, you know, in the past, but I have gotten myself, you know, back to school, I know, you spoke to Angela Nazarian, in your first episode, and she is someone who has also continually evolved. So my heroes and mentors are the women who keep learning who keep adopting, and who keeps serving in different ways.

13:33

Can you tell us a little bit about like, what obstacles you've hit in your life and how you've kind of come through on the other side? Because I know for me, even with this podcast, I mean, I thought, Oh, yeah, I'm gonna do a podcast. It is like, an epic project. And it's hard. And they're, I mean, I love it, and I'm so energized by it. But I had to learn so much new shit like new software, how to do this, how to do that. And I'm like, Oh, my God, my brain is gonna explode. And so many times, you're like, I don't know if I can do this. I don't know if I can do this. And there's like an exposure component of like, I'm putting myself out there. I'm going onto social media for the first time. I'm going up on the air into like, podcast, air land. And there's so much space for judgment, too. So it's kind of putting all your vulnerabilities out there and just like hoping that you can walk through the fear to the other side. Are there any sort of things that you can recommend in terms of like walking through that fear?

14:37

Sure. Well, I think for me, I've always been anchored in, you know, a few basic tenants. One is gratitude. And another is recognizing my privilege, which I have a lot of privilege. And so, for me, of course, life is full of many obstacles in China. lunges and, you know, I have I try new things and I'm, I feel like I feel much more than I succeed.

15:08

I remember in the book, you were talking about the yoga experience, how all of your friends were like, milega come to yoga, and you were like, I can't do yoga. And then finally, you did? Well, and

15:19

that's the thing, I think, in one, recognizing, you know, the opportunities that I have, asking, How can I serve, I'm feeling grateful for the many gifts that I have in my life. It helps me then take the next step whenever I'm fearful, because I am trying to take all of those tenants and forward. That being said, you know, every time that you face a challenge, and you're fearful of something, you know, what you realize is the actually, when you do fail, and when you do have a challenge is not that big a deal, and you can move forward. So it's not getting stuck in when you have setbacks, but being creative and coming up with new ways of doing things. So, you know, I really do think that so many of us have so many advantages. So if we can, you know, offer tools to other people wisdom to other people. That's something to be really grateful for.

16:25

Right now, I appreciate that. And I know in your book, you talk a lot about how in your life, you've been very performance driven. And you went to the best schools and you've got the best grades, and you really push for your kids to thrive academically, and, you know, socially, but the academic performance markers were a big deal to you. And I can relate to that, because I've talked about in other episodes, like that's sort of how I functioned also in this sort of linear path of, I'm going to go to this school, and I'm going to get these grades, and I'm going to get this degree. But I think what's so hard about this time in life right now, is you don't really have this yardstick where you hit all of these, like, linear milestones, it's much more nebulous. It's like, Who am I? Well, there's no answer to that, like there is to a math problem. Or, you know, how can I serve? There's no answer to that, like a scientific equation. So I'm in this, like, nebulous time right now where it feels like fuzzy and cloudy and kind of trying to figure out how to get comfortable in the discomfort. Do you have any recommendations for that?

17:35

Yes, I think that you need to let go. And you need to just be in the discomfort. I think even the title of your podcast, you have the neurotic word, is probably a hint to yourself. And that's probably why you're doing what you're doing is to actually let go to let go of, you know, things needing to be a certain way. And I've experienced that completely myself exactly, as you indicated, in terms of, you know, the schools, the grades, the accolades, the labels, you know, the quote, unquote, bestseller lists or speaking, opportunities, and you realize, I think, with experience, and hopefully our kids will realize sooner, that often, those aren't the most important things. I think one of maybe, just maybe I'm saying this, the gifts of this crazy time in history that we're living in, is forcing us all to rethink things. As I mentioned before, you know, even my kids who, you know, it worked so hard to potentially go to a college and lots of their friends, who are now in all these schools that they work so hard to get into, are sitting at home in front of their computers, like what was it all worth it

19:05

to? You such an easy thing I know, I, I have a lot of friends who have kids who are in the same boat, and they're all sort of having these weird existential crises, you know, as high school graduates. They're like, wait, we just worked our asses off for all these years, took all these AP classes sacrificed so much and like, what does it really mean in the end? Yeah, I think you're right, like COVID really has. I don't mean obviously, in some cases, it's created a lot of trauma and things of that nature and challenges. But in other ways, it's just taken a spotlight and shown us like it's slowed us down, taken the spotlight and shown us what we already were grappling with to begin with, but we never had the time to stop and think about it. I know for me, it's like everybody's running, running. Running, and then you stop and you're like, Oh shit, like, I never thought about it that way. And now that we have so much time at home, because we're not going out as much, it really sort of feels like a lot.

20:13

And I think it brings you back to the question of what do I want? You know, and what do we each want. Because, you know, this is a time where, as you said, a lot of people are also facing a lot of crises. And we're having real mental health challenges. suicides are I know,

20:32

they say it's up 900%, the mental health issues, which is so

20:38

heartbreaking. And so it's a time, I think, to reach out to those that we are close to enough, we love and to remind each other of that, and to really recalibrate. For many people, I think, you know, what are all those kinds of milestones and goals? And for going back to what are deeper intentions? Why are we doing what we're doing? And, you know, really, again, anchor ourselves from a place of love, gratitude and service.

21:12

I know that you sort of think to yourself, Well, if I parent it all over again, what would I What would I have done differently? You know, just all of that, would I push to have pushed all the academics and all of the accolades, I don't know.

21:27

Well, I, personally, I'm a believer in don't look, back, kill, you know, learn from the past, but focus on the present in the future. So we always have the capabilities to live in the now. And, you know, I think, you know, whether it's my 16, or my 18 year old, it's kind of being present and listening to what they're going through, and even not even feeling the need to kind of give so much advice, but just be present, be loving, and help them go through that journey in the same way that we as parents are going to that Yeah,

22:02

just listening is sometimes so hard as a parent, because you want to jump in, you want to problem solve, you want to react, but you're right, it's just about just letting them then letting them feel the emotions because at some point, they're not going to have you to sort everything out for them. And they have

22:19

it is it's a hard time. It's an unfair time. It's an old time. So you know, there's also it's a time of anger and frustration. And so we don't always have to try to make it positive. Like it's okay to also go through the emotions of what's completely normal and natural right now.

22:41

And do you I it makes me think about in your book, when you were talking about intense that are ego based versus non ego based. So let's say, going to an Ivy League school and becoming a Nobel laureate, whatever is your goal, can you kind of just take us through what an ego based intent is, versus a non ego based intent?

23:05

Sure, like, as I've said, you know, in the past, I've been very achievement oriented, you know, I've been able to get degrees from, you know, brown, Columbia, and Northwestern, and I, you know, you often kind of judge yourself based on all of these, how much money you've raised for a company or hitting a bestseller list or a speaking engagement, in my particular case. Those are all ego based. I wouldn't even say I think in my book, I'd say ego based, intense, but the really ego based accolades are, but intense, really should be coming from your soul. And when you just are quiet, and you ask, what do I want, something I've done with 1000s and 1000s of people, generally, what comes up for most people is love, is connection is a desire for health, and happiness and service. And so that really, I feel if we ground ourselves in those types of intentions, you know, all the other stuff comes and goes, I mean, I can say, as I've mentioned before, you know, I've had so many failures, but it's like, once I move on, I move on, I get you know, it's like it then part of the journey is continuing to learn, continuing to reinvent yourself, and continuing to serve those that you love.

24:41

And also knowing that it's normal, and that we're all in this boat together. It's not like any of us is unique in that we're kind of trying to figure it all out. We're all figuring it out in the human experience. I also think I've read some interesting things where they talk about, you know, if you were writing your eulogy, Are your obituary? No, that sounds morbid, but bear with me. And you wouldn't really be writing, oh, I went to this Ivy League school, and I got this score on this MCAT test. You want to be remembered for the people you touch the purpose that you lived? And we have to remind ourselves of that at the end of the day.

25:21

Yeah, absolutely meaning and I would say, a long time ago, I just realized, and I think you also when to, you know, an Ivy League school, like intensity, really make any difference? With that conclusion, you know, and, you know, it's good for us to have the degree, but really, nobody cares. Makes no difference whatsoever. And that is something, you know, that I've tried to relate to my kids. But then at the same time, as parents, we make choices about the kinds of schools and environments we put our kids in. And so I think As parents, we have to constantly be checking in with ourselves. That Are we living by example, and teaching our kids the things we want to teach them? Not by just saying it?

26:13

Yeah, it's walking the walk, for sure, for sure. In your book, you talk about Eckhart tolay. And how he was saying that, instead of asking, What do I want, a better question is what does the universe want from me? What does he mean by that?

26:31

So, you know, I had an amazing time with him. And I did a TEDx talk around our experience together, and where I went in and kind of was very goal oriented in terms of trying to get, you know, the content that I wanted, or expected from him for my book. And in the end, he made me just sit there and listen to church bells. Um, and so, you know, it was really just a time of letting go and being present. But one of the things that I asked him was that, you know, I had grown up in environment. In fact, even in, you know, our Hindu philosophy of this concept of Dharma, what is my purpose in life. And I said to him, you know, like, I don't know what my purpose in life, like, I'm a soccer mom, like, I drive my kids from one activity to another activity in between, I'm just trying to keep my house in order, let alone figure out some work. And he talked to me about the frequency holders, which are the everyday people who are living a life of purpose. And he said, you know, so in being a soccer mom, be a soccer mom with love, with inspiration, and with purpose. And that is what you are meant to do right now. And so I think what he emphasizes is, again, when you ask, what does the universe want? To me, it kind of takes that ego question out of the way as well, which is also how can I serve in the best way at this time in this context? And you know, most meaningfully?

28:16

Yeah, I also think that part of that part of the embracing the frequency holder or just be embracing who you are at that particular time, part of it's hard because of the judgment, it's sort of like if you ask yourself, What would you do if nobody was watching? I feel like we would get different answers. Because, like, even me, for example, like I felt sometimes judged for not working. You know, oh, you're just a housewife? Oh, you're just a mom. And it's sometimes hard to be that frequency holder, as you're saying, like to say, Yeah, I am a soccer mom. And I don't want to be judged for that. And it goes the other way, two of the moms who are working and have full time careers, there's other people judging them for that. So what do you think? And what do you say about this judgment? Like how can we all just live in our own lanes?

29:10

So I, you know, judgment is always going to be there. I grew up in an environment where people called my father witch doctor my whole life until about 10 years ago, and they still do. So the way that you get over judgment is you feel confident in who you are. And that isn't an intellectual exercise that is being connected to your spiritual core in whatever way that feels right to you. So for me, that's been a lifelong practice of meditation. But also just kind of, you know, other people are always going to have their point of view. And it doesn't really matter, actually.

29:55

It's so hard not to get lost in it.

29:58

Well, the way to not get lost in it To find a practice and to make the intention to not let it bother you. And so that includes everything from on a daily basis. Like, you know, I've started to let go of social media, for example, because I found myself going down a path of, you know, looking at likes or boosting things more for the reactions rather than because I really, I wanted to share something. It's, you know, and it may sound harsh to say, but like, it's also surrounding yourself with people that are helping you grow and learn and not feeling judged by

30:44

I agree with that. Angela talked about that, too, in our first episode of building your own personal Board of Directors, and people who are those who are clapping for you, and those who and at the same time, giving you constructive feedback, because not everything's always great all the time. But you have to be able to have the right type of friendship and rapport and openness to be able to receive that feedback.

31:10

Absolutely. And I would add also no talk about this and living with intent learning to say no, I found that as like in school, I would not do hot lunch. And then I would be like, right when guilt that I was a bad mom, because I wasn't doing hot lunch at school when my kids maybe even eat hot lunch. And it was like What a ridiculous align of thinking to go down

31:35

the rabbit hole.

31:37

Exactly. Yeah. And so being able to see and know and letting go of because I don't think frankly, anyone even paid attention or cared that I wasn't doing hot lunch. You go based on your,

31:52

your in. So your intent to manage self criticism and judgment of others, like what is that mantra? Or what does that look like? in your practice? Are you saying I will not pay attention to judgment and repeating that, like, what is the exact thing you're doing to carve out that space for yourself.

32:13

So when we were young, an ex is another exercise that my brother and I used to do my dad used to make us do is go through a day without criticizing, condemning or complaining either words or thought. And you know, we often are criticizing and condemning and complaining about ourselves in our head. So I make a real effort, both in word and in thought, to practice those, as we call the three seats, no criticizing, condemning or complaining. And what we find is that, and I talked about this in the book as well, you know, when, yeah, when we talk to ourselves, and when we tell her certain things, self certain things, like, you know, I'm exhausted, I'm frustrated, I'm useless. I'm this and that, that self talk manifests itself, also into reality. So I really tried to make an effort to change my internal dialogue, right. And neuro

33:12

science shows that too, that we're actually creating neural pathways that we really don't want their by this kind of like Doomsday mentality, the whole world's falling apart, I'm never gonna be able to find my purpose. I don't know what to do with myself, I'm a failure, but we're creating those pathways. So that's what I'm trying to do in this podcast with talking to people like you is to give myself and a lot of other people the tools to kind of repave those pathways into Yes, I'm not perfect. I'm enough. And I'm in process, I'm a work in progress. Absolutely. And

33:49

what I would add to it is a gratitude practice, you know, just to be recognized what we should all be grateful for in our life, and then maybe every day starting with an intention, you know, micro intent to just get you through the day.

34:05

So what would a micro intent look like?

34:08

So, you know, like, today, my intent is to connect with someone I love. And so you know, probably later on, pick up the phone and call one of my college friends, or, you know, go for a walk with my daughter or do something like that. But

34:24

you also feel like you've succeeded for the day, even if that world peace, you've connected with that friend who might need that call.

34:33

Yeah. And it's something that I can do today to film today.

34:38

I love that. Now. I mean, I know we could talk about your childhood and growing up with Deepak as a father and we could do like 50 hours of podcast episodes on it. But would you say, in addition to the meditation and the gratitude, are there a few Cornerstone pieces from your childhood that you think have sort of created who you are today? And what's important to you?

35:04

Yes, and I would say, actually, most importantly, would be my mom, who, you know, has taught me by her example, what it means to love. Truly, at such a deep level, my mother also never apologized for just being a mom. Right? I

35:26

was gonna say she's like the ultimate example of your frequency holder, soccer mom, she lived it, she owned it. She wasn't embarrassed by it. She didn't feel judged by it. She really owned it.

35:37

Exactly. So I think for me, you know, despite like having a father who was out there, and we met so many famous people and all that it was actually really my mother, who grounded me, my brother, my father, our extended family and the entire community that has evolved through my father's work.

35:59

Wow. No, that's amazing. Now in terms of your personal journey, I know that on your blog, intense calm you most recently wrote about how you hit the wall? Yeah, can you take us through that? Because I feel like a lot of us are, you know, feeling that and maybe not wanting to talk about it or kind of wallowing in it. Can you take us through that hit the wall moment that you were at and what you did to pull yourself out of it? Yeah,

36:30

so I think you know, when quarantined started, and all of this craziness of the world that we're living in started, my focus was really, to try to be there for my kids, my husband go through all these transitions of everything at home, going through a long summer. And I think Finally, like, a few weeks ago, I was like, I can't do this anymore. You know, I'm just so tired. I'm so exhausted, of like, trying to take care of everyone else. And I realized that I had also fallen into habits too. deal with that stress, everything from like, my treat of having a Japanese whiskey every few days and be like, okay, now I'm just what the hell, I'm just gonna do it. They owe it I'll just have a second one.

37:21

Mine's chocolate, for sure.

37:24

So, you know, I really I just with what's happening politically, not just in the US, but globally and with us. And it just felt too much. And I had made commitments actually, to write another book, I've been thinking about continuing on a Ph. D. program. And I just realized, like, I can't do it. Like, I just can't do it. I don't have it in. And so I thought, okay, that's okay. And I let go, I shared that newsletter. And within an hour, I got 150 plus responses from people who are just like, thank you for saying it. Because I think so many of us are just feeling tired, overwhelmed. And I think what that reminded me of is just in sharing my vulnerability, actually, the power of connection, because I heard from so many people that I either who I know, and I love, but also from so many people that I don't know, just this desire to kind of say, yeah, it's hard, I'm unhappy. I'm angry, I'm exhausted. And that's okay.

38:35

Yeah, no, I can definitely attest to that. I mean, I, and I would just

38:41

add, sorry, Oh, God, the next step was the taking the next step, which was, like, go have the daily alcohol, I started to move more, eat better, like, at least in the things that I can control in my life, I started to be more proactive and mindful about what I was doing.

39:03

And it gives you your sense of control back. It's like, I can eat better at this meal. Maybe I wasn't great last night at dinner, but I can do better the next meal. And it's not you can't solve everything in one day or one go but it's like one small step, embracing one small step at a time and being okay with that. Yeah. And it's hard. I mean, I know for me, it's kind of an interesting thing, because here I am coming out with a podcast and a pandemic. And I don't know I guess for some reason because I had always intended to work like all through my kids growing up and then I've talked about in another episodes that like once I had my first kid I was like, I'm not leaving, I'm saying and but I think I've had this like burning desire to come back to me and my personal self for so long. That after I went on that walk with Angela that I talked about in the first episode, I just started thinking and thinking and I hired a life coach, which was definitely, like, so helpful and such a privilege to be able to do that. And it just sort of dug deep inside of me and gave me this sort of spark to create something. And I think like for you, you've been creating all along the way with all of your different companies. But for me, it was like, my kids were my creation, per se. And I, other than serving on boards and volunteer work, I hadn't done anything that was a creative personal expression for me, since having gotten my PhD and teaching in the graduate school at USC. So for me, it was like this birthing of myself at this time. And but it requires and involves a lot of vulnerability, because I'm putting myself out there and something I've never done before, in a really public way, expecting friends and strangers to like, participate in this journey with me. And I feel like as long as I like, remain authentically myself, and my voice comes through and people know that, like, hopefully, women are going to hold up other women, and I've had such a good response of people. You know, dming me and being like, Oh, my God, I listened to the podcast, like, and I just bought the book, and I'm doing this, this and this. And just the fact that I can normalize some of these things that women are feeling just makes me feel so purposeful.

41:39

No, it's great. And I think that's, it's a reminder, you know, the subtitle of my book is my son would miss the journey. Yes, you know, it is it's a messy journey. And we kind of get on and off the path. And we have to keep reinventing ourselves.

41:56

And I think what's interesting too, is like we talked about and you talk about in your book, like, we allow our kids to fall all over the place when they're learning to walk, and we allow them to mess up. But then we don't give ourselves the same latitude and flexibility in terms of taking baby steps falling down, taking baby steps falling down, we need to apply to ourselves what we apply to our kids. Absolutely. Now, I want to go into your acronym. I know you love acronyms, because you're a nerd. I'm a nerd, too. I love acronyms. That was like so helpful in studying and getting through school and your acronym. Do you want to tell us what it is?

42:41

Sure. So I based the book around i n p E and T intent. I is for incubator, which is finding a practice. Quiet Time to connect and really ask yourself those questions. Yeah,

42:57

we're gonna go into each one. Okay.

42:59

Yeah, go ahead.

43:01

No, no. So in so goes, incubate notice trust, express, nurture and take action. Right. Okay. So the first one you said was incubate. So this is the first step for us in this golden nugget shoveling process with Malaika. And so can you tell us what incubate means and the importance of it?

43:24

Yeah, so I chose the word incubate. Because it really recognizes that often, we don't know what we want. So even when we plant the seed, as I said before, we don't know what it's going to grow into, we kind of plant it and then see what happens, we take care of it, or even when we get pregnant and have a baby, you know, it takes time. So incubation is really that step of kind of being comfortable with the discomfort finding a practice that allows you to honestly and authentically be present with yourself and kind of explore Who am

44:03

I and you say, practice, you mean meditation.

44:06

So for me, it's meditation. It not may not be meditation, for everyone.

44:11

Example, be of something else that someone else might adopt?

44:14

Sure. I think some people may have a yoga practice, go for hikes.

44:20

Dog at 5pm and listen to a podcast.

44:24

Well, actually, I think walk the dog, but I would recommend do not listen, to not listen. I would also recommend that if you're doing yoga or another practice, actually to find quiet time, and then silence

44:38

Yeah, I think it's hard for us to sit in that silence for sure. Because all of these thoughts start racing around you're like, Oh my god, what's happening here and that's the

44:49

that's the purpose actually, is to be uncomfortable. I know that the thoughts race and kind of go beyond that.

44:58

Oh my gosh, now in terms of the next step is notice. Can you tell us about that? Yeah. So

45:05

noticing is noticing the messages that your body is sending you. Your internal dialogue, I talked earlier about condemning complaining, but also noticing the messages that the universe may be sending you. So, you know, you think of someone and they just happen to call the next day, or you run into someone in an elevator, who, you know, may be the key to something that you've been exploring, like synchronicity, and synchronicity, but it's also paying attention to the body. So, you know, I just talked about, like, kind of how I've gone down this path of not taking care of my body. And you know, sometimes we just need to kind of really listen to her body to manifest change in her life. And then, most importantly, I think, is also the internal and external dialogue, how we use our words and our thoughts.

46:03

And you talk about the noticing project, can you tell us about that.

46:08

So what was the noticing,

46:09

you call it something in your book called The noticing project, where you would take the time to notice things during your day that you wouldn't normally take notice of? Absolutely. So thank you for reminding me. Um,

46:22

so you know, what I like to do is when I set that micro intent in the morning, you know, say, today it's connecting with someone I love, then I tried to notice all of the hints that come up. So it may be like in my email, a new name pops up. And that may be the person that they call, or like just I'm cleaning my house, and I find something that was a gift from someone who hasn't kind of connected with in a long time, so I will call them. So it's kind of like noticing in your day, kind of these, the universe keeps kind of

46:59

little things, these kind of little things that are messages to us, kind of like the bling, bling, intuitive, little symbols, I totally get it. Now in terms of gratitude, you talk about Obviously, we've talked about the importance of gratitude already. But one thing in the book that you do reference is this notion of me too, we Why is that important?

47:22

So I think when and again, all the research shows that when we are going beyond just kind of our personal it actually goes into trust. The next in the acronym, when we ask, you know, what do I want? Often, you know, things will come up and it's linked to the mom. Conflict often is, you know, do I want to be the successful businesswoman? Do I want to be out there? Do I want to be famous? Do I want to, you know, get all these achievement, my milestones versus, you know, I just want to be with my kids. And we often will say, I just want to be with my kids, like, it's not enough. So trust is letting go of the judgment, trusting that when you ask yourself questions, that you're being honest about the answers, and often what we find is that when we transition from the meat to the weed, which may be the we in our family unit, or the we in our community, we're the we as in serving for the world, that often, we're much more inspired. We're much happier, and we feel more of purpose.

48:44

And I also think you reference and we've also talked about already today is this idea of like intuition. And I know there's like a little quote that says like intuition knows her shit. And we have to stop and we have to listen to ourselves and what feels good to us and what doesn't feel good to us. And I think the pandemic is really fast forwarded that for us, or, you know, exaggerated it. So we kind of are like, Oh my God, this, I'm gonna say no to more things. Because it feels good to take the extra time to be at home or to be with my kids. Are there specific strategies that you recommend for getting better at listening to our gut and listening to our intuition.

49:32

So I think you just said it, which is listen to your gut. Often your body tells you what you feel you should be doing. And this is the basics of teaching children. Excuse me. Yeah, this is the basics of teaching children. You know, when we're nervous, we feel the butterflies in our stomach. When we're angry, our body, you know, gets more hot. So for intuition, a lot of it is actually listening to your body, and pausing. So another acronym I share in the book is stop, which is stopped, take three breaths, observe what's happening in your body and proceed. Because often, rather than reacting in a fight flight response, if we can respond more intentionally we make better decisions.

50:20

I like that. And I also like, in living with intent, you say, Be your own Buddha. I feel like I need like a bumper sticker that says that, can you tell us what you mean by Be your own Buddha thing that no one else

50:33

can tell you what's right for you. You know what's right for you? That's

50:37

what our teenagers say to us. Right? Yeah.

50:42

Is really trusting that you your body or soul knows what's right for you.

50:49

I love that. And in terms of number four, in your intent acronym, its express what does that mean?

50:58

So Express means to actually say what you want take ownership of it, which is something many of us don't do because we're too scared to actually admit what we want,

51:09

like owning your shit.

51:11

And I believe that the process of actually writing it down and ritualizing it is in and of itself, a way to take ownership. And then if you're comfortable to start sharing it, it may be sure he does with the Universe by writing it out or seeing it but even sharing it with one or two people that you love, and that you trust, to guide you.

51:37

And that also you talk about how that leads into accountability. Once you've written it down for yourself, and you've told to friends that you're going to try to exercise every day, the universe knows your two friends know. And there might be a higher likelihood that you're going to do it because somebody knows that that's what you're trying to do. And they might check in with you. And you might have to go Yes, I did. Do it. I did work out today. Yeah, right. Now, Step six, in your intent acronym is take action, which is so hard. Can you tell us how to start with this? Like, how do we take the small next step?

52:23

So I believe that when you know why you are doing something, when you authentically ask yourself, what do I want. So that's why all of the steps lead to take action, then you can make smart goals to achieve them. So that's why the i n t e n part leads to the take action, so and it's really the separation of intentions versus ultimately setting goals. But when we know why we want to do something, when we've really nurtured it, when we've kind of been honest about it, when we've expressed it, then we're ready to take action, then we're ready to take goals to set those goals. But that's why I think that first step of incubate and being uncomfortable with the not knowing is actually a really important step, to even ultimately be able to achieve the goals.

53:22

And you say that meditation is really important for setting intentions. If somebody is new to meditating, or they're like, Oh, my God, I'm so bad at meditating, just like how you said about yoga, I could say about 1000 things like learning new software for this podcast. I mean, where like, where would you start? Oh, I don't know how to meditate. It's too hard. My brain is going everywhere. I have the monkey mind, blah, blah, blah, like, What? What's my next step?

53:52

So first, it's totally normal and natural for your mind to keep racing. That's what your mind wants to do. So these techniques have been have lasted for 1000s of years. Because they work and they help. And it's also kind of transitioning from this goal oriented mindset to so

54:13

hard.

54:14

Yeah, it didn't work oriented mindset, which is, even if you sit for five minutes, and the whole time your mind is racing, that's okay. And that's what you're meant to do for that five minutes. What I would recommend though, to people, I mean, there's so many apps right now. There are so many books, there's so many videos. So I would recommend finding an app these days. I actually do. The Chopra app just came out which is great and incorporates the 21 day meditations that Oprah and my dad have done. I've signed up for that. Yeah, so those are a good place to start. You don't need enough. You can begin Like I said before, Just go for a walk outside. But make it quiet. Don't stimulate yourself with more information or distractions, just notice happening around in my books, just breathe and just feel for kids. I have so many exercises and one of the things I hear from adults is that because they're so simple and written for kids almost like bullet points, they're really easy to understand the practice is still the practice. We don't need to intellectualize it.

55:30

Can you do the deep breath one for us, so everyone can hear it? I actually did it while I was reading your book?

55:37

Oh, yeah, I mean that there are many different breathing exercises, but really, right now just sit comfortably. Put your feet on the ground. If you're comfortable, close your eyes. And take a deep breath in. Pause, and breathe out.

56:00

Feels so good.

56:02

It takes five seconds. So for a lot of people, they say you know, I don't have time to do stuff. We all should be breathing. Yeah. But you can always take a deep breath at any point. Other exercises I recommend is just to you know, use your fingers and take a deep breath in.

56:20

As you go you go pinky to the thumb, ring finger to the thumb, middle finger to the thumb, index finger to the thumb, and you're just hitting the tips.

56:32

Yeah, and just breathing in and out.

56:35

And why do you breathe out your mouth does it somehow I know it's confusing with meditation, I'm always like, wait, you breathe in through your nose. But some people breathe out through their nose, and some people breathe out through their mouth is there.

56:48

So I think again, you do what's comfortable for yourself. In fact, a lot of the research right now just on breathing is showing the power. And I recommend for people there's a book called breathing, which is the kind of science behind breathing is actually the power of breathing in and out through your nose. Again, the the point here, again, is not to worry, am I doing it right? The point is to get into a practice that feels comfortable and peaceful for you

57:21

just do something, just do something to break up the monotony. And I also want to touch on before we finish up is I know you talked in your book a lot about a little of that. You talk a lot in your book about having this star studded career, you end up at MTV. And then you're like, Oh my God, why am I here? What am I doing and I need to make a change. I think that's an interesting thing to touch on for a second. Because I think a lot of listeners and myself we come to these stumbling blocks, or aha moments and go, Oh, God, and we have to know that that's normal. So can you tell us like a little bit about your experience? Yeah, I

58:07

mean, that was when I was very young, and you know, had this great job. And, you know, we had a day of many achievements, and then found that we were driving through the slum and came across the group of children who, poorest of the poor, who were crowded around a roadside stall, and the in it I you know, our channel was broadcasting, you know, in the poorest parts of India. And while everyone in my car cheered, my heart stopped, and I thought, What am I doing? And so, you know, I had grown up in an environment where I asked constantly, how can I serve. And I just realized that that wasn't the place for me to do that. And I've had many experiences like that, you know, when I was five months pregnant, on 911, which, you know, many of us kind of that was a turning point, even before becoming a parent. I've had that experience while teaching other people how to meditate and realizing that I'm completely scattered and a mess, and I need to do something to change. And so that's why I stress the somewhat messy journey because nobody, I don't believe anybody has a path that doesn't have these hurdles that doesn't have these questions of,

59:25

you know,

59:26

what am I doing this and why am I doing this that come up? The key that is when they come up, to pause, to reflect, to ask questions, and to be open to change. And that doesn't mean that we have to immediately change our life and, you know, get divorced and go move and travel or, you know, quit a job. It means that we take the time, the incubation time to really deeply reflect on what is right For us at that time in our life.

1:00:02

Yeah. And like you've said, and we've talked about today is that small step, like just picking one little thing and moving towards that. I think it's so key. I know in your book, you also talk about how Arianna Huffington reaching out to you and telling you what her failure disaster history has been was really helpful for you in terms of understanding your own vulnerabilities. And I think it would, it's an amazing story to share with the listeners, do you want to talk about that?

1:00:33

Yeah, I mean, I would just say like, whether it's Arianna or others, there are so many women that we can look up to, and learn from. And I do think when, you know, we take our role, you know, I'm starting to find myself in that role where I can kind of mentor, you know, other women, I think it's something that's an honor to do and a privilege to do. But what I've learned from Ariana, and others, Angela and others, is that, you know, when you're honest, it really helps. And, you know, in being honest about the vulnerabilities, the challenges, you know, both Ariana, Marianne Williamson, and others have talked a lot to me about kind of the challenges of being a mom and building a career. And so, you know, I think our role can be to also be honest, show our vulnerabilities and really mentor others, you know, in whatever way we can help.

1:01:42

I think it also talks about that kind of idea of women helping other women. If you see, like, even for me, in this podcast, I've had so many people that I don't even know, reach out to me and say, Oh, do you want me to be on your podcast? Or do you want to be on my podcast? or What can I do to help you I've seen your, you know, your flexible neurotic messages, and I can resonate with it. And just people reaching out in that larger capacity to someone else is such a big thing. And just putting our support out in the world for other women trying to put themselves out there or better themselves in such a capacity is so amazing. As long as we maintain our authentic voices, because I think when we look at social media, like you said, it creates this like super glossy, perfect, amazing idea of what we should look like who we should be and it doesn't show like I did like an Instagram story the other day of like sweaty armpits, you know what I mean? It's like, we all have stuff, but we don't always all share it. And you don't have to share your dirty laundry. But like you said, with Arianna, or Marianne Williamson, when women share with other women, what their vulnerabilities are, I feel like we help to normalize the feelings and open the door for other women to step out and up. Yeah, no, I

1:03:12

agree.

1:03:13

You know, and I think that that's super important right now, especially during this insanely bumpy time that we call the pandemic. Oh, my God. Right? Well, I just want to say that I'm so inspired by you, I think, you know, you've had the courage to say that your MTV job was not fulfilling. And you wanted to dive into yourself deeper and figure out what your larger intent was. And I think that by your taking us through some of your roadblocks, vulnerabilities and mistakes, we have been able to sort of see the other side of you because obviously being Deepak Chopra, his daughter and being successful in your own right, like you do look very glossy to some, you know, like debugs daughter, Ivy League graduate TEDx speaker, best selling author, but the fact that you're Mallika Chopra, and you're saying I have my own shit, and I do make mistakes, and I'm not perfect, and I do feel discomfort and I do hit the wall. I mean, it's opening so many doors, I think, you know, for myself and for other listeners right now, I just want to say thank you for that. Before we wrap up, I kind of like to do this fun shit about the person so it's fun shit about milega. You ready?

1:04:37

Sure.

1:04:38

What's next on the bucket list?

1:04:41

I genuinely have no idea.

1:04:43

Okay, good. Um, anything that you've learned that is now on your bucket list after quarantine. Um,

1:04:54

it's okay to say no over and over and over again.

1:04:59

Okay, and And secret pleasure. Is it whiskey?

1:05:03

until three weeks ago.

1:05:07

Nice honesty Good one, for honesty. milega. So what is it now?

1:05:12

You know, right now it's like struggling to find what the new thing is. It's a struggle. I'm telling you it, you know, it's just, it feels at the end of the day. Okay. Hot water isn't doing it. But no, I

1:05:27

know. It's like that. What's my healthy coping mechanism? I'm not sure what that is. And it's definitely not exercise for me. I mean, I do it because I have to, but I'm not one of those people who works out and it's like, oh, my God, I feel amazing. So I'm waiting for that to happen. It hasn't happened yet. Now beauty treatments. Do you have any favorite beauty treatment face cream anything?

1:05:51

So I have never done anything other than basically use Pons cold cream, which is my mother and my. My children are horrified by that, like my two daughters know everything about beauty. Because they just think it's so oily and whatnot, but I'm very lucky. I

1:06:14

think genetically, you know,

1:06:15

great. Yeah, really add to it.

1:06:18

Well, you're lucky. Now what woo things do you do? Obviously, you meditate. Is there anything else? I don't know, incense crystals stand on your head plant medicine? I don't know.

1:06:31

So first of all, I hate the word. Whoo. So

1:06:36

what's your replacement for Whoo.

1:06:39

I like self care practices, in fact. And so for me, meditation is critical. Um, I now do have after many years, kind of, on and off a yoga practice, because I'm finding that physically breathing, and moving and creating the space actually has helped my mind tremendously. So I've added that yoga practice, which we'll talk about in the book that I love that.

1:07:13

What about favorite TV show from the past or show you're watching right now?

1:07:20

Right now, we just finished crash landing on you, which is a Korean soap opera. And my family's really indicate dramas right now.

1:07:29

Wow, I haven't seen that. I'm gonna have to break that one down. Because we're always looking for new stuff. What was the last thing you ordered from Amazon?

1:07:39

So I just did an order of like, what I like to do for gifts for people who have just had babies is I will order books for them. So my husband just had like four people in his kind of work. Wow. who have had new kids, which is such an interesting time. During his I was gonna

1:08:00

say, Oh, my Lord, I

1:08:03

just ordered like, a lot of new books as gifts. But it's like such a beautiful thing to share. Because I think as new parents, they get this box of like, you know, 20 plus books that are handpicked

1:08:15

by maleek at Oprah, does it get better than that? So yeah, um, now I know, I could probably answer this question, but I'm gonna ask it was intuition natural to you? Or did you have to work at it?

1:08:28

I think we always have to work at intuition. So I never take intuition for granted.

1:08:35

Okay, what's the smallest thing we can do today to start our shift towards self recreation?

1:08:41

Ask yourself who am I What do I want? And how can I say?

1:08:45

Good answer? What would your bottom line advice be on finding the sweet spot in the second half of life?

1:08:53

Be open and be vulnerable. And then just take that first step

1:08:59

and let it go. Right. Okay, um, now that we have our shit shoveled for today with milega Chopra, I hope you love to maleek as golden life nuggets as much as I have milega I've loved digging deep with you with our shit shovels today on this podcast. If listeners want to find you, where can they find you?

1:09:24

So you know I am on social media, though I'm hardly posting anymore but I do hear especially on Instagram. Um, you know, my latest and links to kind of my blog and things like that. So I would say, Mallika Chopra on Instagram and people can also email me at Mallika Chopra calm.

1:09:48

So you have your website, your books that Instagram. Yeah, right. Okay. So listeners let's think about what should we can start doing today. One small step all of us think cluding me, I want to thank Melissa for highlighting the tools and inspiration that helped us to live with more intent in the second half of life, and hence this podcast, Mallika Chopra. Thank you so much. I really enjoyed talking to you today. Like glaze. Thank you soon. Yeah, bye bye