MIDLIFE EXPERT SECRETS: SKINCARE, REINVENTION & FINDING “YOU”

Cayli 00:00:00  Trust it will be okay. Trust. You've done the work. Trust. You know what you're doing. Trust that it will work out that people will show up for you. If you're working at it and you're doing it and you're in it, it will work out.

Sarah 00:00:18  Hey peeps, welcome to the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Sarah Milken. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like last fucking year, I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day, I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD, wiped the menopause sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shit shovel, and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just luck, coffee, and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this. Welcome back to the Flexible Neurotic podcast, The Midlife Self Reinvention Podcast, where we talk about all the Uggs and fabulous cities of midlife, kind of bringing the sexy to midlife.

Sarah 00:01:17  Today I have a repeat guest. She was episode 22, one of my fucking favorites. I know you're all going to be like, oh my God, I remember her. And if you don't, you got to go back to that episode because it was so juicy. I listened to it again this morning and I was like, wow, she really did have a lot of information. Okay, this hottie smarty is here in the studio in person. She is a skincare beauty guru. You will see her and be like, oh my God, I totally get it. She has a franchise bespoke beauty Boutique, six of them all over the country. I shop there. I have almost all of the products in there. I never want to stop. She is a midlife woman who put an Instagram account out there when she turned 40, called knocking on 40 with no plan, just wanting to connect with other midlife women, wanting to talk about beauty. And she literally turned an Instagram account into an entire operation, like a full flow of full blown business.

Sarah 00:02:31  And in our first episode, we got into all the details of the stores and the franchise and all of that. Today is going to be different. Today I have my midlife shit shovel and we are going to have a midlife conversation. Midlife woman to midlife woman getting into it. We're talking about skin glowing nutrition supplements, working out, marriage, empty nest, all of it. Her name is Kylie Cavaco Rak. Knockout beauty. Hi, Sarah. Oh my God, I'm so excited to see you in person. I'm so excited.

Cayli 00:03:05  To see you in person.

Sarah 00:03:06  I mean, last time I think I saw you was in your store. I walked in and I was like, can you help me with my melasma? Melasma is our common issue.

Cayli 00:03:16  It is our it's our common denominator for sure.

Sarah 00:03:18  I feel like it's like a real, real thing. We're going to get into that because I'm still on that journey and I know you are.

Cayli 00:03:26  I'm forever on the journey. I think if once you have melasma really, for the most part, until your hormones are completely quiet, you're playing whack a mole.

Sarah 00:03:37  But now I feel like we all have something. Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, some people have the wrinkles, some people have the melasma. It's like, I think melasma is my, like, Achilles. And it's a frustrating one because it's so apparent and It's so hard to cover and it's like a whole maintenance project.

Cayli 00:03:57  It is a maintenance project. That is a very apt way to describe it. It is a maintenance project.

Sarah 00:04:02  I know, but then it's like I need like an assistant for that, like I need, you know, like I need someone to help me figure out how to solve it, how to cover it. It's like a whole thing. And the visor, I mean, you see me on Instagram wearing the the bitch visor. And when I was listening to our episode, I, you reminded me why I wear the visor up really high because the visor is like, constantly. You said when it rubs on the skin, it's almost just as bad as having the sun blaring on it.

Sarah 00:04:33  It's like any kind of aggravation.

Cayli 00:04:35  Yeah, and I think, you know what we talked about on the phone and on text, which she didn't talk about on the podcast, is also just sugar consumption. Right. And so that's it's the perfect storm when you have sugar hormones stress, and then the sun.

Sarah 00:04:54  Oh, it's a lot.

Cayli 00:04:55  It's a lot.

Sarah 00:04:56  Okay, so today we're going midlife woman to midlife woman. We're going to get into it. So let's start with the midlife hormone shitstorm and how it relates to our skin. Okay, I know you are a nerd like me, and you can like totally geek out. Maybe dumbed down a little bit. Okay. For me.

Cayli 00:05:18  Yeah. Okay. You don't need me to dumb it down, but I, I will. How about if I give you some just. Yeah, soundbites for you, some.

Sarah 00:05:25  Basic soundbites on midlife hormones, what the fuck is going on and kind of what we can do about it.

Cayli 00:05:34  So much like when you go through any hormonal change, whether it be as a teenager or as a new mom, and you get that kind of swell, Well, that feeling of the swell coming up, whether it's anger or frustration or tears or whatever it is, that push which is a hormone push, is going to affect your skin, right? So that kind of that comes up, that makes us hot, that makes us blush, that makes us, you know.

Sarah 00:06:10  I'm sweating right now.

Cayli 00:06:11  Look what this I know. I love that you have your fan, but it's giving you like supermodel.

Sarah 00:06:16  I know, but I'm just sometimes. I mean, the thing is, with the whole midlife shtick, it's like you have to own it. Like there's no secrets, there's no hiding. And I feel like that's part of my platform is like, we've just got to own where we're at. Yeah, for sure. So we turn the air conditioning off just in case. With my OCD, you could hear the air conditioning in the recording. So that's why I have a mini fan. I have an extra fan. If you break into your own sweat in my bag.

Cayli 00:06:43  I frequently break into my own sweat. So it's really. It might happen at any moment. Yeah.

Sarah 00:06:47  And with my surprise period that we talked about, like in the behind the scenes. Yeah, it's a whole situation happening right now. But let's get back to the nerdy stuff.

Cayli 00:06:56  That feeling of that swell, that push of estrogen, that push of hormones.

Cayli 00:07:03  What that does is also creates inflammation in the body. And that inflammation creates skin concerns like rosacea and pigment. And so what we see oftentimes in women who are so Perry to mean around or near so Perry menopausal around menopause, we start to see actually ironically, something called Perry oral dermatitis, which is a version of rosacea that shows up actually around the mouth, but also the eyes. and you think about that, what happens when you are shifting into that midlife place. Your eyes often get drier. Your mouth gets drier.

Sarah 00:07:46  Oh my God, I had a gum in my mouth that I just handed off to Andy because like, my mouth is so dry right now and then I have like all these. I became like the tissue girl, you know, like my mom and grandmother used to, like, carry a tissue. Of course, I became that person. Like, I leave my fucking house with my husband to go on a walk, and I'm like, I gotta run back in and get a tissue.

Sarah 00:08:06  I have dripping eyes and he's like, that's cute. Whatever.

Cayli 00:08:10  I have dripping eyes and dripping nose, too. Yeah.

Sarah 00:08:12  And we talked about the dripping vagina from the vaginal estrogen.

Cayli 00:08:16  I don't have that. But do.

Sarah 00:08:18  You use vaginal.

Cayli 00:08:18  Estrogen? I don't use any hormones, actually. At all.

Sarah 00:08:21  Oh we're going to talk about that okay. Keep going.

Cayli 00:08:23  We're we're raw dogging it over here. Oh.

Sarah 00:08:27  God. You're so natural. And I'm, like, blowing the hairspray. Like knowing we're knowing it.

Cayli 00:08:33  It's not that I'm so natural. I think that, when I was 13, my mom died of breast cancer. And I think that even though we know that there is a lot of evidence that hormones actually protect you against cancer, it's just not something you want to mess with. It's just not something that I want to mess with.

Sarah 00:08:54  That's understandable that that's, you know, part of my journey in digging up these golden nuggets about menopause, midlife is there are people who don't want to do certain things, and then there's people who don't have enough information.

Sarah 00:09:11  So I feel like once you've done your research and you get to a place where you're like, okay, I'm good with this, then that's it. That's what you that's what you live with. I think for me, what's hard is watching a lot of women who don't have the information that they need. Yeah. And HRT would be a really good option for them. But there's like some crazy statistic that like less than 10% of women, like, really even know about it. And for your situation, you're making a conscious choice not to use it for obvious. I have.

Cayli 00:09:45  Nothing against.

Sarah 00:09:46  It. And I'm sure all of your clients, most of your clients are taking it.

Cayli 00:09:50  It runs the gamut. And I think that it's, you know, it's really a personal choice and it's how I my brain runs at night. That's how I work.

Sarah 00:09:59  I you can call me.

Cayli 00:10:01  Really? Because will you be up?

Sarah 00:10:02  Oh for sure.

Cayli 00:10:03  Okay, great. Because I it's fully running at night unpacking every.

Sarah 00:10:07  Oh I'm available.

Cayli 00:10:09  Great. Because that's I could use somebody.

Sarah 00:10:11  Yeah. Sometimes I'm eating like there's a fly here. Sometimes I'm eating cereal. Oh you are. Yeah I have like a but not a lot. Well once in a while I'm like, okay, I gotta get myself out of this mode. I have like a low sugar, high fiber cereal and I use a high protein milk, so I feel like I'm getting fiber and carbs at 3 a.m. I'm like, I'm okay. And then I skip breakfast. It's not that often, but sometimes you gotta just do what you gotta do because that helps.

Cayli 00:10:37  You go back to sleep.

Sarah 00:10:38  Yeah, it kind of just, like, calms my system down. Got some protein in, and then I'm ready to go back to bed. That's like a once every six weeks kind of thing.

Cayli 00:10:48  Okay. Well, so I'm up in the middle of the night thinking I'm dying. So, you know, I probably just.

Sarah 00:10:53  Are you on your phone?

Cayli 00:10:55  No.

Cayli 00:10:56  Not okay.

Sarah 00:10:56  Yeah, I don't either, but so do you. Just stay in your head in the middle of the night?

Cayli 00:11:00  I stay in my head.

Sarah 00:11:00  And your husband's fucking sleeping, right?

Cayli 00:11:03  See mine? I have to be honest. I often wake him up.

Sarah 00:11:07  Really?

Cayli 00:11:08  Yes. Wow. Or sometimes I actually get up out of my side of the bed and then go to his side of the bed and sort of scoot him over and then, like, cuddle on to him because that helps me go back to sleep.

Sarah 00:11:20  Oh, interesting. And how does that work for him?

Cayli 00:11:24  I haven't asked him.

Sarah 00:11:25  Does he complain about it?

Cayli 00:11:30  I'm 47 years old, saddling up to my husband at 430 in the morning. I don't think he should start complaining.

Sarah 00:11:37  Okay, well, as long as you're going to, like, put out. Fine. Oh, no. Oh. Oh, so you're waking him up. You're breaking his sleep and his REM, and you're not putting out. That's such a good combo, Kylie, I love it.

Cayli 00:11:51  I didn't say it was a recipe for success. I told you I was giving you real talk.

Sarah 00:11:56  Oh, my God, I love it so good. You know what's funny is my husband is such a supportive person. But nighttime, like during the night is not a good time for him. Like, if I'm throwing up, like on the bathroom floor, he's getting up, he's helping me. All the things but that I've been.

Cayli 00:12:16  Throwing up in the middle of the night. But I'm saying.

Sarah 00:12:17  If my food poisoning or something like that, like he doesn't just like sleep through it, but on a regular basis, like I would have him up every single night. It's just he and he's so cranky if he doesn't sleep. He's not one of those, like, just like roll with it kind of guys who can lose sleep and be fine the next day like I pay for it.

Cayli 00:12:38  I didn't say it was a good idea. I just told you I do. I think it's, my brain definitely is active at night, and, I'm a fairly low maintenance wife, to be totally honest.

Sarah 00:12:53  Minus that, I mean.

Cayli 00:12:56  I don't, I don't, I don't require much as a person.

Sarah 00:13:01  That's so interesting. Is that because you're so independent and you're financially independent, or you just don't expect that much from him? Because my husband would say I'm high maintenance as fuck.

Cayli 00:13:13  I don't expect that much from anybody. Okay. I think that's what happens when your mom dies when you're little. I think I'm a self-contained unit in many ways, and I think part of midlife is learning how to be in relationship to others in a way that actually allows them in, and to not imagine that you can do it all by yourself. Because you cannot. You cannot.

Sarah 00:13:44  I love that point. And it's also interesting if you look at it from another perspective. I think us as women, especially stay at home moms or moms who tend to be the primary caregivers as their kids are getting older, they're feeling like not as needed anymore and not as relevant. And then they start to feel like they're disappearing. I mean, I know for me, having kids who are getting older, like I'm going to be empty nest at 50, I have one kid out and one kid on the way out, and it's really figuring out like, who am I without them in my constant every day? And who am I going to expand and reconnect or new connections with to kind of fill those gaps?

Cayli 00:14:40  I mean, I think what you're talking about that probably rings true to almost everybody listening, whether you are a mom or not, is you need to have interests.

Cayli 00:14:53  You need to have things that light you up, that get you going, that excite you. And very frequently as a mom, the things that get you going and excite you or your children because they have to. Because otherwise your children would go hungry and would have no one taking care of them. Because it's a hard.

Sarah 00:15:15  Job, so hard. It's like the best and hardest job.

Cayli 00:15:18  Yeah. So you have to turn it into something that is inspiring and that you love. And I think for a lot of women, it's hard when their children go off and graduate or and go to college, or sometimes even move to another city when their children are older. Because their identity is based on that 100%. And, you know, we all have so many things, so many facets to us that we stuff down and we shove down for whatever reason. It happens when we're young, when we maybe have like a quirky, eccentric side that isn't received well by peers. So we shove it down. Or when we want to be more bigger than we feel we're allowed to be.

Sarah 00:16:11  Or things that we feel like maybe we're going to be judged for, for.

Cayli 00:16:15  Sure. Yeah, yeah. And then, you know, as you get older, you've pushed down so many things about you. And I think a lot of times women feel unfulfilled because they have not allowed some of those things to surface and to be fully explored.

Sarah 00:16:37  Is that how you were feeling when you were 40 and you put out the knocking on 40 Instagram account?

Cayli 00:16:44  Truthfully, no. I have never felt stifled as a person. My parents were very supportive of who I wanted to be. My father.

Sarah 00:16:55  Were you working?

Cayli 00:16:58  I was, yes. Okay. I was, and I think being fully self expressed was something that my parents valued.

Sarah 00:17:08  Tell everyone who your parents are, because I think that's a really important piece to all of that.

Cayli 00:17:13  They were both in the fashion industry. They were both editors at Vogue.

Sarah 00:17:18  They they were huge, big like legends.

Cayli 00:17:22  Well, I appreciate that. They were they're legends in my mind.

Cayli 00:17:26  and just great human beings there. My dad is a wonderful human being. He works at me and knockout. Now my mom and you're.

Sarah 00:17:34  Doing a podcast with him.

Cayli 00:17:35  We are. We're doing a.

Sarah 00:17:36  Podcast about the podcast.

Cayli 00:17:38  It is called Under the Cover.

Sarah 00:17:39  Okay.

Cayli 00:17:40  And it is related to being under the cover of a magazine. So it's all the stories of the sort of behind the scenes or that time period, primarily the 90s. but it goes all the way back to the 70s. and it's and goes all the way into the 2000. and it's just sort of a love letter to an industry that I grew up in.

Sarah 00:18:05  And so, are you both participating or you're interviewing him? It's just.

Cayli 00:18:09  Like this. We're we're okay. We're we're two mics in the same room looking at each other, and then we actually have a guest. So every episode has a guest at this stage. And our guests are Cindy Crawford, Michael Kors.

Sarah 00:18:24  So very low. Marc Jacobs very low, very low brow.

Sarah 00:18:27  Totally love it.

Cayli 00:18:29  Christy Turlington oh.

Sarah 00:18:31  Duh.

Cayli 00:18:33  I think what's so fascinating about listening to the podcast, because we edit edit them together, is you realize how much you, when you have a shared experience with somebody, how much affection you have for them. And I think that my dad and I, I have so much reverence for my dad and so much affection for him. And when I see the relationships that he has built over time and then through that, the relationships that I have built with people because of the way that my dad was with them, I think it's really nice. It's so.

Sarah 00:19:13  Beautiful. Thanks. And I'm sure your mom is part of that whole story, and being able to relive some of those memories must really be a beautiful moment for both of you.

Cayli 00:19:27  Yeah, I think there's some emotional lifting that comes with bringing up the past. I think that's the other thing. I think that happens when the nest gets empty is there's this sort of you're like, oh, I should clean out their room.

Cayli 00:19:41  I should clean out the garage, I should. And then you find things like the hat they wore on their first birthday, and then you're bawling on the floor.

Sarah 00:19:49  And it's been there, done that. Yeah.

Cayli 00:19:53  And I think that that's a real feeling. It's a real emotional lifting is a real thing.

Sarah 00:19:59  And I think that I had a kid graduate last year and watching friends, kids graduating this year. And my biggest piece of advice is just lean in like, do the ugly cry. Like, do those things that you need to do because there's no shame in it. We're all feeling those feelings. And when you walk by your kid's room like that is upsetting, there's no way for it not to be upsetting. It's what's this like concept of, like, hard and good. It's like it's so hard that they're leaving, but so good that they're fully baked and cooked. And you've done this parenting journey and like, they're off to create their own lives without you being, like, this kind of supervisor in their lives.

Sarah 00:20:46  But it has so many different layers. That's why we need this shovel, because it's like church. And then one day you think like, oh, I got this, I'm fucking good. And then Jake comes home from college. He's actually coming home tonight just for a week from summer school with three, three friends. I'm like, great. Then all the high school friends will join in two and it'll be like a 40 person party. but then it's like, I'm so full and happy that he's there, and then he leaves again. It's so weird. And I'm just kind of. It doesn't. I'm not going to say it doesn't get easier. It gets easier. But it still stings.

Cayli 00:21:28  Does it need to be easy?

Sarah 00:21:30  No, it does not need to be easy. I just think that in this society we're looking for, we're so used to things being easier. Like instant gratification. Yeah, but I think these are like real feelings. Real raw feelings, that were sort of meant to revisit over and over and over again.

Cayli 00:21:53  I think we spend a lot of time looking for things to be a little bit easier, and then we end up wishing away the time that we have with people, especially our children, thinking when they're babies, like, oh gosh, when this gets easier, then I can go do this. When this gets easier, I can go do that. And I think that's what happens with people's careers too. they. They put their career on hold or their life on hold, or their dream on hold, or their passion on hold. And then they're expecting that, oh, it's going to get easier. There's going to be a moment where I have space and time. When you have the space and time, if that ever comes, it's probably not a good reason that you have the space and time. So waiting for that space and time to show up is probably not the best move.

Sarah 00:22:42  The hard part is when that space and time comes and you haven't figured out something else for yourself. It's not necessarily starting a business.

Sarah 00:22:53  It's not writing a book. I mean, everyone's version is different. Like I've said a million times on my podcast, like some of my friends pickleball, mahjong, reading community, SoulCycle, whatever it is like something where you're like, I want to get out of bed this fucking morning and really, like, live my day and we have to have some kind of purpose no matter what it is. And I think that once the kids leave the nest, that sort of already built in sense of purpose starts to disappear. And then we start to feel like, well, what the fuck? Now what do I do with this time?

Cayli 00:23:31  I think we have to fix it way earlier, right? We have to talk about it way earlier. Like if you have a tendency to not get out of bed, you've probably had that tendency since you were a teenager. It's not new in midlife, right? And especially.

Sarah 00:23:46  You had to drive carpool, so you had to get your ass out of it.

Cayli 00:23:49  If you weren't allowed to do that.

Cayli 00:23:51  There's also more of a pull to do it. Right. And there's this. There's this feeling that mothers just have to keep going or women have to keep going. You can stay in bed if you need to stay in bed. Totally right. And you can stay in bed when you have a three year old and figure out a way for that to work out. And it's hard. It's it's all a juggling act. Life is a juggling act. But if we don't give in to some of those needs as we're on our way there, then it arrives and we don't really know what to do with any of those feelings, because part of us wants to just stay in bed all day, because that's what feels good, and we're exhausted. And that mimics depression. And so you hear a lot of people say, you know, oh, just get up and get dressed. As a as a common refrain for midlife women. And I think what we should be looking at is like, why don't you want to get dressed? Why don't you want to get up? Because I have a thousand reasons why I need to get up every day.

Cayli 00:25:01  A thousand, whether it be my children or my business, or even just my own motivation, but there's a lot of times I just want to stay in bed.

Sarah 00:25:13  Me too.

Cayli 00:25:13  Right. And I think we have to normalize what that means. That that doesn't mean you're depressed. It doesn't mean you have you're depleted. It just means sometimes you need to just regenerate. And that's okay. And if we take that time to stop and just reset for a second, then it doesn't become a days long, weeks long endeavor. And I think sometimes when women get to midlife, it's the only time they've been able to do that. And then that becomes a slippery slope.

Sarah 00:25:45  100%, because then you start thinking like, oh, I did it, stayed home today in bed, and then I'm staying home tomorrow in bed. And then you start thinking, well, did I, did I work out like, did I eat more than I usually do? And then it starts bringing in all these other different things.

Sarah 00:26:03  It's like you can stay in the sort of hotel of, I need a break. You just can't stay that long.

Cayli 00:26:09  Yes, I love it. It's the hotel of. I need a break. Yeah, I love that.

Sarah 00:26:13  Can't say that.

Cayli 00:26:14  You can't stay that long. And I think the thing is, is that it's if you're going to stay in bed, right? And you give yourself one day, you can have one day maybe, if you need to. I always believe people need two days off in a row. So maybe you give yourself to just to like fully go there the next day. Get up. You have to wash your face. You have to get up. You have to freshen yourself up. It's not like get up through your hair, up in a ponytail, put on some leggings that's not getting up and getting dressed. That's something different. And that's okay. When you have so many other things happening in your life that you're trying to just get it together, but you actually have time and space get up.

Cayli 00:27:01  Actually looking at the first morning light would be very helpful. Tells your body to put the melatonin away.

Sarah 00:27:07  Andrew Huberman.

Cayli 00:27:09  Allah. Andrew Huberman sure put the. You know, but put the melatonin away. Yeah, right. That will help your mood. That will immediately get your mind set in a different place. And, you know, taking a shower and freshening your body will realize your body. It will shift what's going on. And this is scientific. This isn't like, oh, it's, you know, just good for the mind and nice. I mean, breathing is good too, by the way. Like, I think so many times I find myself holding my breath.

Sarah 00:27:39  Oh my God, me too. Holding my breath like this.

Cayli 00:27:41  Yeah, exactly.

Sarah 00:27:43  So weird.

Cayli 00:27:44  So weird. And I think use the opportunity to be able to take a deep breath. And to allow the air to, like, fill up your whole body. Not just this like rise of your chest. And then it's like, you know, it's almost strangling you.

Cayli 00:28:04  And I think we spend so much time not taking a deep breath. So it's like we have space and time because there's.

Sarah 00:28:10  Always a finish line. Always. And I think what's interesting about midlife, I've found, is I think you and I are both very performance driven women. It's like we did this and then check this box and then we did this. By the time you get to midlife, some of your performance benchmarks are gone, like you've already completed, let's say, a college degree or you've done your six franchise amazing stores and you feel like, wow, I've checked all these boxes. But part of midlife is realizing that the journey is the journey and not just the boxes. And then it becomes a curvilinear sort of atmosphere where you're not checking boxes and there isn't like a whole gold star checklist. It's just, how do I.

Cayli 00:28:59  Explain to me why I don't understand the midlife struggle.

Sarah 00:29:03  How do I.

Cayli 00:29:04  I don't have the boxes. I think that you just explained that to me. Really, I don't I but I, I now I understand it and I hear what exactly what you're saying.

Cayli 00:29:14  I think losing my mom at such a young age. It didn't occur to me that it's like if you check the boxes, maybe you were closer to death. Interesting, right? So it was almost like the desire to check the boxes didn't exist to me, but I definitely had a drive and a need to be a mom to heal, I guess what I was missing. but the idea of checking a box was not I wanted a family because my parents got divorced when I was young and I didn't experience that. Really. but I didn't again feel it like boxes. And I think because of what you're describing, where it's like if you check the boxes, then now what?

Sarah 00:30:05  Right. And I feel like by the time you get to midlife, like you've sort of done a lot of the milestones, and then you get here and you've sort of checked for a lot of women, but not all have checked the kid box or the career box or whatever it is. Yeah. And now you're like, well, what? Where the fuck is the next box? The box becomes you.

Sarah 00:30:27  And most women don't want to take that self agency on because it's hard. And we have to really dive into ourselves and figure out this, like no one's coming to rescue us and you can't buy it on Amazon. This sort of like mid-life pivot, self reinvention, re-energizing the self in midlife. It's you. The work is you.

Cayli 00:30:56  I think that's the difference between how men and women are spoken to in the media. I think there's an idea that, men are meant to achieve, achieve, achieve. And then in order to become wildly successful, their next choices, they have to change their mindset. And so there's it's, I think, why biohacking is so prevalent among men. Totally. Right. I think because it's literally like, you have to have the capacity to be as successful as you want to be.

Sarah 00:31:40  And it also gives them structure, because if you're that age where you're kind of like thinking about retiring, figuring out what your next thing is, running a marathon or creating some kind of biohacking Hacking regimen, gives you structure to your day, gives you that fucking reason to get out of bed.

Sarah 00:31:59  It's like, oh, I have these 16 things to do as part of my biohacking regimen. And that's why a lot of people take these mid-life projects on, because it does create a purpose, a meaning, a structure that your kids sort of provided before if you were a stay at home mom.

Cayli 00:32:16  But I think what if we think about it this way, someone when I had a baby and my daughter was applying to preschool, so I had a tiny baby and a preschooler, and this woman was talking about how you're driving the bus and the kid gets on the bus, and eventually the kid gets out of your bus and you want to invite them. You want them to then invite you back in. And I was like listening to what she was saying. And I was like, I feel what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. It did not resonate. So I went home because I'm a geek, as you quite nicely pointed.

Sarah 00:33:05  Out, as we call.

Cayli 00:33:06  It. Thank you very much.

Cayli 00:33:06  So I went home and I sort of I thought about what she was saying, and I arrived here that you're not in a bus, you're in a car and you're driving first. You're driving a car.

Sarah 00:33:16  It's not a minivan.

Cayli 00:33:17  And it's not a minivan. And you're but your baby is facing the other way, and you're craning your neck to see them in the little mirror that you've set up. So you set up a full life contraption in order to make sure that they're still alive and breathing. Yes. And then you finally put them their face forward, and that feels like a relief a little bit because you're like, okay, I can see that. They're not slumped over and dead in the back seat. Like, you're freaking out that they're, you know, somehow not making a noise. And then, you know, then they get in their booster seat And then they're in a proper seat belt and they're they're, you know, clicking themselves in. And at that point, you are able to let them get in the car on their own.

Cayli 00:34:02  And there's that moment of, oh, okay, how have I set that up for them? Because are they still in the back seat going, mommy, click me in? Or do they just click themselves in? Have you given them agency? Then they ultimately will sit in the front seat and then it's like, are you controlling the music? Are they controlling the music? Are you controlling the conversation? Are they controlling the conversation? I find my best conversations are with my children when we're both looking forward, not looking at each other, and they're just kind of letting me know it's on their mind.

Sarah 00:34:35  Oh, that's how I do the teenage sex talks. You know, like, I just wanted you to know this information. We don't have to, like, really dive in right now, but I'm just going to talk about it now.

Cayli 00:34:48  And not make and not make it uncomfortable. Right. And then the goal is that then they drive the car and you're in the passenger seat, and then they get out of the car or you get out of the car.

Cayli 00:35:00  Should be really what happens first you get out of the car, they drive on their own, and the goal should be to be invited back in the car. So I think about it like this. As a woman or as a human being, you just want to be invited back 100%. And I'm not sure that the person who's in the bed, who's not getting up, who's not showering, is being invited anywhere because they're probably not even accepting invitations anymore. So I think it's really important to and I probably need to take this advice myself, but to think about making sure that you are the person that you would invite somewhere, that you would invite back. And I feel like what happens with motherhood or even honestly when you come to the sunset of your career, because maybe that career has kind of run its course and there's you need a new thing to do. Or maybe you're just kind of a lot of people are very unhappy in their marriages after their children go, but you have to still be curious and interested because you won't be interesting if you're not interested.

Sarah 00:36:23  The whole like Eve Brodsky, I've interviewed her twice and she says you have to be interested and interesting. Yeah. And I think a lot of midlife women and I just talked about this on an episode that's coming out Thursday. You know, like if you're at a dinner party and you have been a stay at home mom and someone says, what do you do? That's a very hard thing to answer because you start thinking, okay, if I say I'm a housewife, that seems like I didn't do anything. If I stay as a stay at home mom, that's a fancy way of saying a housewife. So I feel like we also have to normalize in society to make it okay with whatever decision you've made, because a lot of women feel shame in not having a thing to say that they're doing.

Cayli 00:37:11  We need some real talk here. We need to have some real talk. I run a business I have in all US time zones. It is so much harder to be a mom, so much harder.

Cayli 00:37:25  And I have easy children. It is. And I have a very helpful husband and a very supportive husband. And the difference is, is that your heart has permission to now walk outside of your body all day long. And it is a shocking experience to the body. It is not to be taken lightly. It is not hard. It's not easy work to just be, you know, allowing your children to explore who they are as people and to guide them.

Sarah 00:37:58  Responsible for them at the end of the day. Yeah.

Cayli 00:38:01  And then teaching them to be responsible for themselves and.

Sarah 00:38:03  Just to be good people.

Cayli 00:38:05  And I think that there's this idea that. Being at home is somebody having a bonbon on a sofa 100%. Right. But you're actually navigating everyone's emotions, everyone's dreams, everyone's thoughts, everyone's desires and wishes, everyone's sadness, everyone's disappointment. Everyone's hurt, everyone's anger.

Sarah 00:38:35  See? But your husband obviously gets that. And mine does, too. He's like, you couldn't pay me enough money to, like, do all the things that you want to do in a day for for our kids.

Sarah 00:38:45  Like it's just not possible. And he just took my daughter to Austin for three days and he's like, that's like, it's like a lot when you're doing the all day thing and and the texts and I need this and that. And you know, he's like, it's it's a lot. He's but he appreciates it. And I think so many women are married to people who don't appreciate that. And then when you show up at that dinner party and you're the woman who can't say, I have knockout beauty, it feels so small.

Cayli 00:39:18  But it's not.

Sarah 00:39:19  And we need to remind people how important, by.

Cayli 00:39:23  The way, is saying, I have knockout. Beauty feels small.

Sarah 00:39:26  That's imposter syndrome that we all have, right?

Cayli 00:39:29  But that's what I'm saying. I think that there's I think everything sort of feels a little bit small. I think there's when you're A thinking, feeling adult unless you're like, I don't know, running a country. It feels everything feels a little bit insignificant. And it's.

Cayli 00:39:51  Or or maybe you have, I don't know, an extreme case of narcissism, but for the most part, it feels small. It feels whatever you're doing feels like a tiny contribution to what's going on on the planet. And I think that we can all minimize ourselves. We can all make it really small, and we can all do that thing to ourselves, where we are standing in judgment of it, of whatever it is. And we would never want that for our children. So we have to be mindful of what we put out there. Would it would you be delighted if your daughter had the life that you've had?

Sarah 00:40:35  Yes. But I will say my my life is very different than the life I grew up in because my mom was a CEO for 48 years and stay at home mom for her. Like that was never part of the equation. So when after I got my PhD and decided to be a stay at home mom, she did not understand that at all. and it's not to say that, you know, it's not like there was some big fight or whatever, but there was judgment.

Sarah 00:41:09  There's judgment there. It was like, wait, you did all the schooling, you checked all these boxes and like, now you're going to be a stay at home mom. It was sort of like she couldn't wrap her head around it.

Cayli 00:41:20  Well, she also was fighting a fight that was much bigger than we're fighting, right, because of women's lib. So, you know, you couldn't get a credit card without your husband's.

Sarah 00:41:30  100%.

Cayli 00:41:31  You know, sign off on it until like 1973. So we're talking about a time period that to be a CEO at that time was a great triumph. And to think that you would have done that and had that be so much of who you are, but also to be able to show your children and show women that it was possible potentially makes you think that, okay, well, maybe. Why did I work so hard?

Sarah 00:42:05  Well, she's retired and she just retired this year, and she's struggling with that because so much of her identity was this illustrious career and all the recognition that came with that.

Sarah 00:42:18  And it doesn't mean that it disappears. It just comes to a crashing halt. And she's sort of renegotiating, like who she is. And where does she fit in without having that career identity? It's sort of like, you know, empty nest a little bit, but for a career. So I think everyone can sort of have a different version of that loss or someone losing a spouse, or it's the.

Cayli 00:42:41  Biofeedback of that. I mean, I experienced at a very young age where I had a job that was very, out in the open and had a lot of, kind of. Accolades that came along with it and respect and opportunity. And I was very young. And then the job was not renewed. And I didn't have kids yet, I didn't have that was my purpose. And it was a weird feeling to feel like, wow, who am I without that and having to build that before I had children, before I got married, before I even had a significant relationship, I think was a lot.

Cayli 00:43:27  And I think maybe is Why? I was the architect of my life. The way that I was so far that maybe I don't want to feel that way again. Because it is shocking to the system and there is a mourning period, and it's okay to mourn whatever it is. It's okay to mourn the maiden when you become a mother to. And it's okay to mourn the motherhood when you become a, you know, a woman again who's been and whose time has been spoken for and to have your own time. It's okay to mourn that there was somebody there was an exterior structure to your day. And even though it seems nutty, it has impact.

Sarah 00:44:26  Yeah. And that hamster wheel, although it can be Groundhog Day and boring and repetitive provides a structure. Yeah, and that structure is gone. Or like with my mom, it's like she went to work every day. That structure is gone now. And now she's renegotiating. Like, what is her day look like? What is her purpose like? You know, all of those things.

Sarah 00:44:47  And I think so many midlife women are in this stage of like, okay, well, what's next for us? At the same time as this whole body takeover of perimenopause and menopause, circling back to the hormone shed and skin and body and things are starting to fall and you're like, Holy moly, all of the all of these things are all happening at the same time. And maybe it's not just a remodel, like, maybe we have to sort of tear down and start again. You know.

Cayli 00:45:24  I think each person has to navigate it as feels best. You know, some people need to remodel it. Some people need to look at it and accept it and say like, gosh, I, I feel like taking this all for granted for a long time. And like, maybe it's okay that it's looks like this feels like this is like this. Sometimes you need to fully revamp it. Sometimes you got to bring it down to the studs and there's no right or wrong way to do it.

Sarah 00:45:51  No, but it's just finding what works for you.

Sarah 00:45:53  And like, I know, like watching your journey on Instagram and through text, you had a point in your life where you were like, okay, I feel inflamed, I feel shitty, I have to find something to change this trajectory. Yeah. Can you talk about that? Sure.

Cayli 00:46:13  I think that women, when you have a combination of stress and hormones is A very intense recipe for your body, just truly expanding and blowing up. And I'm not talking about weight necessarily. I'm just talking about like, this inflammation feeling. so what began as inflammation turned into weight gain? But it just began as inflammation. So it began as like my eyes were puffy, my rings were tight, but the scale actually wasn't going up at first. And it was more just a sense of like, oof, I I'm, I'm almost at capacity emotionally and physically.

Sarah 00:47:06  Like, did you not want to get up?

Cayli 00:47:08  I didn't have a choice at that point. it was the middle of Covid, and I had had to move my entire store into my garage and everyone my team was home, working with people online.

Cayli 00:47:25  And I was packing the boxes myself, which was a very strange shift, but that's what needed to happen. so I get.

Sarah 00:47:32  Shit done.

Cayli 00:47:33  Women get shit done. so I think my adrenals were on fire. My hormones were also on fire. And I got into what my health coach refers to as an oh, fuck it spiral. so I started working with this coach named Sarah Raji.

Sarah 00:47:56  Who I've interviewed.

Cayli 00:47:57  Who is wonderful. And she at that point, I'd already gained weight. So by the time I ended up with Sarah, I'd already gained weight. But it was the oh fuck it for a year and a half every day. And it's very easy to get there. It's very easy to just say, oh my gosh, I need I'm so exhausted, I need another cup of coffee to have this conversation, a work conversation, or to pack these extra boxes, or I just need a sweet treat because my energy is so low, or oh my gosh, I just need an extra helping of whatever it is.

Cayli 00:48:41  And I think what happened was I then felt foreign in my own body, which felt very weird. and at that point I actually had become okay with it in a weird way.

Sarah 00:49:00  So you sort of accept it as your new reality? Yeah, I did, I know so many of us do that I did.

Cayli 00:49:07  I accept it as my new reality. And I started to feel like maybe that is the price that you have to pay to be successful. Oh, And I think what happened was I. Got to a place where I felt like, you know, when you have a first, first have your first baby and your husband comes home and you haven't showered. Yeah. I once turned to him. My husband said my personal hygiene cannot be negotiable.

Sarah 00:49:47  Like this is not okay.

Cayli 00:49:49  This isn't. This can't be negotiable. I have to have a shower. I have to, you know, feel good. I think it was like, oh, no, wait. Forget getting to the finish line.

Cayli 00:50:01  Like, we will be at the finish line very quickly if I don't take care of this.

Sarah 00:50:05  What was the turning point?

Cayli 00:50:07  I really didn't feel well. Like really, truly did not feel well. So I had had a migraine for like 60 days straight. Oh my gosh. And, it was so many different things were happening. My knees started to give out on me. So we were going on a ski trip, and I couldn't even ski because I couldn't turn my knee that way. I mean, like, weird things that were just like, oh, I guess I'm aging. And I'd already had frozen shoulder once.

Sarah 00:50:40  Oh my God, I've had that.

Cayli 00:50:42  And then I had double frozen shoulder.

Sarah 00:50:44  No way.

Cayli 00:50:44  Yes. So I was unable to oh my God, lift anything. And I just thought, okay, I have two frozen shoulders, I have a bad knee and.

Sarah 00:50:55  And you can't or don't want to take hormone replacement.

Cayli 00:50:59  I didn't actually even know at that point that it was what would even help.

Cayli 00:51:04  At that stage, I didn't even know what. I didn't even know that it was hormone related. It felt more stress related at the time. Now, looking back, I think the stress was compounded by the hormones and the my hormones had been so out of control for so long. Perimenopause wasn't a conversation really, and especially because I was young when it started. People would just be like, oh, you're just stressed out. You moved across the country with your kids. You're just stressed out, like you have a business on the other side of the country. You're just stressed out. Like it was a constant conversation. I would go see doctors. They would tell me, eat less, exercise more. They would say to me, oh, your adrenals are just burnt out. You just have to have these herbs. So I was like, okay. And I think what I didn't realize was number one, I was. I was very thirsty all the time, but I didn't realize how dehydrated I really was.

Cayli 00:52:12  And sometimes, you know, one of the things that Sarah really brought up, she's like, the thirst masks itself is hunger. So I was eating as opposed to drinking water. So that immediately shifted once I really started drinking much, much more for water. But I knew to drink water.

Sarah 00:52:31  So when we all know that and we just don't do it. As I take a sip right now.

Cayli 00:52:35  There's so many things we know to do. And I think that was what had happened. It's like I knew most of what she was teaching me and everyone's like, oh, you needed a babysitter. No, I didn't need a babysitter. I needed, like, a co-creator. I needed somebody who could help me co-create my new existence and to help me uplevel.

Sarah 00:52:54  It was like a coach.

Cayli 00:52:56  That's what she is.

Sarah 00:52:57  She's like, it's not just about. How much are you eating, Kylie? At 3 p.m., it was having an accountability person and someone to talk to, and someone who could not just tell you what to do, but to to listen.

Sarah 00:53:11  Having a supportive husband because I have one too. It's not the same thing.

Cayli 00:53:15  No, I would never. I mean, I would tell my husband, oh, you know, I just cleaned out the pantry and he would be like, that's okay. That's all right. There's like nothing that bad in there. Whereas I would tell Sarah that, I would say, oh my gosh, I've just I've, I've just cleaned out the pantry, say, that's okay. You just had a pantry party. That's all right. No problem. That's all right. Go alkalis and have some greens. And and it was very upbeat and it was very like. But there wasn't actually a like it's okay that you just did that because whatever was in there was fine. That that expression of needing to have a pantry party is an emotional expression. Yes. It's not because I want to eat whatever's in my pantry. It's I want to quell whatever that feeling is that I'm having. So what I need in that moment is not the oh, there's not whatever's in there wasn't so bad.

Cayli 00:54:09  What I needed was, okay, how do we course correct. How do we write the ship? And she would help me write the ship. And I think not. I think when you have a supportive husband, they don't make you feel shame around it, which is wonderful. Yeah. And, but they have different bodies than we do.

Sarah 00:54:31  Totally. The best, though, is when I like, when I incorporate something new, I can see that he's sort of watching. He's like, yeah, I had a lot more protein today. I'm like, okay.

Cayli 00:54:45  You know.

Sarah 00:54:46  It's just funny because if I were to say to him, oh, you should really be hitting this many grams of protein, he'd be like, fuck you. You know, he wouldn't say that, but he'd be thinking that like, oh, here she goes again. But I find that when I sort of just do the things he sort of like comes along for the ride there.

Cayli 00:55:05  There's definitely that Phenomenon, I think with skin, with health and wellness.

Cayli 00:55:11  I have the husband who says things to me like, why don't I have that? What? Why why didn't you tell me about that? I thought, well, because I don't know. Every other man I know is not delighted to hear about how much that you need to be drinking half your body weight in ounces of water, or that you should be re mineralized. So I just, I don't know, he's like, I need minerals to I want minerals. And actually I think what's interesting about it is he's interested because I'm interested.

Sarah 00:55:45  That's what that's what I'm saying. Like he said to me the other day, because he's having all these back issues and he plays a lot of golf and he works out with weights really hard and he can't seem to figure out. So he goes, do you think I should start Pilates? Because I've been doing Pilates for like a thousand years. And I was like, oh, to the guy who complains that my Pilates reformer takes up so much space in the gym, and he could have a different piece of equipment if I would just get rid of the reformer.

Sarah 00:56:13  Oh, and you want to use my Pilates teacher, too? Oh, so it's just kind of funny, the little thing.

Cayli 00:56:21  This is why you're high maintenance. Ha ha ha ha ha. See, because I say my husband says, you know, should I be stretching? And I say, I don't know. Do you want to stretch more? Should I do you need. Do you need me to get you some bands? Do you? Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. And I don't ask anybody if I should be stretching.

Sarah 00:56:42  Yeah, no, I get it.

Cayli 00:56:43  I think, you know, I think to myself. Oh, it's a little odd. I can't touch my toes anymore.

Sarah 00:56:48  Yeah, I, I the difference is, is I feel like if there's a problem, like I'm on it, like I'm gonna solve it. Whether it's for me, my kids, whatever. Like I said to me other day, I'm like, it's okay for you to sit around with like, a back problem and not go get physical therapy.

Sarah 00:57:05  But if I have with my frozen shoulder, if I just sort of accepted that as my new reality of like, oh, I just have a shoulder and I can't move like we are, our marriage would suffer from that because I'd be like the girl with the shoulder who couldn't move for two years. I'm like, get your back together, dude. Like going on your little walks in the sauna and all that stuff. Like, that's all good. But there has to be another thing, like, do you want me to set up a chiropractor appointment? He's like, that's so woo woo. And I'm like, okay, fine, do it your way. Drink water because.

Cayli 00:57:41  He tells you about it. He's like, my back is bothering, my back is bothering, my back is bothering me.

Sarah 00:57:45  Or I see him walking. It looks like he has like like he shouldn't his pants, you know what I mean? It's like this. This, like, waddle through the kitchen. I was like, your back hurting, isn't it? And he's like, yeah, he's not a big complainer, right? It's just I can see it.

Sarah 00:57:59  I can see how he's, like, not moving. Like he, you know, normally does, but he doesn't want to tell me because then I'm going to say, like, don't you think you're playing a little too much golf?

Cayli 00:58:08  Yeah. See, I will tell my husband I have a frozen shoulder and he'll say, that's made up.

Sarah 00:58:13  Oh, yeah.

Cayli 00:58:14  And I'll say, what do you mean that's made up? And then, you know, he'll hit the Google machine. And then he's like, oh my God, it could last for two years. Hahaha. I said yeah. So yeah. And he moved. Yeah. So maybe we should like figure. But it's funny actually once you've had a frozen shoulder and then a double frozen shoulder. This now the third time it's coming around, I am doing everything I can to not have a frozen shoulder.

Sarah 00:58:40  I know.

Cayli 00:58:41  And what I realize about it is that I can also make it fun for myself. I don't have to have it be like, oh, I need to have like, you know, a cortisone shot or put my arm in a sling or not.

Cayli 00:58:57  I have a friend. She has a frozen shoulder that she keeps having to switch sides of the bed with her husband because she'll, like, turn toward him, and then that shoulder will start to freeze, and then she'll turn the other way, and that shoulder will start to freeze. And I feel like, okay, well, what can I do to make it better? So my husband likes to swim. So I have taken up swimming to spend time with him. And I, I'm pretty sure I'm doing some version of a doggy paddle.

Sarah 00:59:26  I'm not a good swimmer and it's not cute.

Cayli 00:59:29  That's not opening up the arms, right? By doing like a little doggy paddle so.

Sarah 00:59:32  I don't get my hair wet unless I have to, like, get a blow dry. Yeah.

Cayli 00:59:36  Tell me more.

Sarah 00:59:38  I just it's so much work to get my hair back to where, like how it looked yesterday. You know what I mean? Like, it's just a project that I don't need. And then that means that, like, I have to then the melasma issue.

Sarah 00:59:50  Because then I have to like, take, you know, my makeup comes off the whole, you know, it's a triple edged sword for me.

Cayli 00:59:57  We need to go back. Ha ha ha ha. You don't wet your hair.

Sarah 01:00:03  No, I do what? My hair. I just wouldn't if I don't choose to go swimming. Right.

Cayli 01:00:09  So I'm. I'm just going to be there with you. Yeah, I'm going to be here with you. I never went in my own pool. Ever.

Sarah 01:00:19  I have one, I never my husband told me to start using that as the cold plunge because he doesn't heat the pool. And you wouldn't.

Cayli 01:00:27  Know because you don't.

Sarah 01:00:27  Go in. I'm like, yeah. He goes, you went in once when we moved in. I am like, yeah, but, I don't have a need to go swimming.

Cayli 01:00:35  I had no need to swim. And I thought to myself, I have this thing in my backyard that I don't go in that collects leaves.

Sarah 01:00:42  And then I'm asking the pool cleaner why I have leaves in the bottom of my pool, and why isn't it? But it's also like it looks pretty, though.

Cayli 01:00:50  Well, yeah, but they're I mean, I now sit in the pool and think to myself, oh my gosh, like I've created a life where I have a pool.

Sarah 01:01:03  I like looking, I.

Cayli 01:01:04  Lived in an apartment. You know, I have a pool, a pool.

Sarah 01:01:09  Chlorine has all its salt.

Cayli 01:01:11  I don't.

Sarah 01:01:11  Know, I don't know what mine is.

Cayli 01:01:13  Because you don't go in it. Yeah, but the thing is, is that I think where my. Midlife. If I had to say, okay, this is what someone, if I had to tell somebody like, okay, like what? What would I want to share with you. Yeah.

Sarah 01:01:31  Is this advice or just insight and nuggets? I don't know. Okay. Take it how you want. Okay.

Cayli 01:01:36  But. If we could think about it as a time to be free and the freedom to get your hair wet, the freedom to do whatever it is you want to do without judgment, without thought to what is it going to require to get it back to what it was? Right.

Cayli 01:01:57  And yes, there's a maintenance of everything that we do. It's a lot of maintenance to be in mid-life. I'm sorry.

Sarah 01:02:03  It is. I mean, my husband asked me the other day if I wanted to see my hair bill for the year, just for fun, and I said, well, yeah, as long as you show me your golf bill, then we're cool. I'm like, so it was like, you keep your shit, I keep mine.

Cayli 01:02:17  So I think there's this what I have wanted to do over the past, we'll call it five years is. No, it hasn't been five years. I'm not. It's not even been that long. It's been like three in the past three years is to find ways to be more free, whatever that means. And part of that is, yes, it is work to blow dry my hair, and it is work to put it all back together, but it feels really good to be in that pool and it feels really good to be able to.

Cayli 01:03:01  I mean, I'm looking at you. I'm looking at me and this monitor thinking to myself, I should I need a hair bill, but hey.

Sarah 01:03:08  But and I'm looking at you going, why the fuck doesn't she have any melasma on her face?

Cayli 01:03:12  But the thing that I think that is happening is that we are. We're trading, we're putting ourselves in these boxes because we want to remain that same person. And what if that new person is better?

Sarah 01:03:30  I've never liked to get my hair. What? Even when I was, I didn't, you know, I didn't like to.

Cayli 01:03:34  Be in the water.

Sarah 01:03:34  Either. And my husband goes in the Jacuzzi every day and I don't go in. And he's like, why? I'm like, because let's forget about the hair. But like, that's like yeast infection central for me, like that just can't happen. Also, I sit at the edge and we chit chat and wear, you know, he's wearing this big, like golf sombrero, super hot.

Sarah 01:03:53  And I'm wearing the fucking bitch visor, you know? and we're having our mid-life moment, but I'm just like, I can't.

Cayli 01:04:00  Wear the bitch visor.

Sarah 01:04:01  You can't?

Cayli 01:04:02  No, I mean, I looked at myself one day. I think I've told you this story, but. And I looked like I was, like, incognito.

Sarah 01:04:08  I know, and I'm like. But that's the whole point. The freedom in midlife is, who the fuck cares? It's like.

Cayli 01:04:13  Who the fuck?

Sarah 01:04:13  I care about the melasma because I work so hard to get rid of it. That wearing the visor as I walk from here three blocks away is no big deal for me because it takes so much work to.

Cayli 01:04:26  Because that gives you more freedom in the end. Yes, wearing the visor gives you more.

Sarah 01:04:30  Freedom even though it's not a suit. And all the things like, I'm going to go to New York this weekend with my husband, and I'm going to wear a visor with my cute outfit, and I do not give a fuck.

Cayli 01:04:40  Yeah, but that's freedom.

Sarah 01:04:42  Yeah, that 100%.

Cayli 01:04:43  And I think that that is it's.

Sarah 01:04:45  Finding your freedom is not my.

Cayli 01:04:47  That's what I'm saying. It's not your.

Sarah 01:04:49  Jacuzzi. Yeast infection is not my freedom.

Cayli 01:04:51  Agreed. I think I would not have even tried, though I would not have. Even my husband could have been in that pool. Been like. It feels so good in here. Meanwhile, I wouldn't put my foot in that pool and I was like, it is far too cold. And he said to me, he's like, what temperature would be pleasant for you?

Sarah 01:05:07  95 yeah.

Cayli 01:05:08  I'd like an I like a 91.

Sarah 01:05:10  Yeah. But I know that's like when the pools at 83, he's like, Sarah, it's 83. I'm like, yeah, it feels like 63 though.

Cayli 01:05:17  It's not. But that's also recognizing that's where that's my high maintenance. And I think being able to feel free in whatever it is that you're doing and fully self expressed and to be able to just be in.

Cayli 01:05:39  In a place of freedom with where you are and what it is. So for you, the cost benefit analysis of wearing the visor is giving you more freedom.

Sarah 01:05:47  Yes.

Cayli 01:05:48  For sure. The cost benefit analysis of you being able to not wanting to get your hair wet. It's not there for you because there's freedom in it and your hair looks amazing.

Sarah 01:06:00  Beauty, wellness, lifestyle, marriage people are going to be going to pools. Now, I know women will hate me if I don't ask you. Some like really major skin things. Do it. Okay, so as a midlife woman, if you were to take us through your daily and weekly routine, like what would be your top? I mean, because we could all scroll Instagram and buy 500,000 items, but like, what are the things that we have to have?

Cayli 01:06:28  You don't have to have any specific product. What you have to do is you have to make sure, just like your body has to be nourished, you have to be taking care of your skin through vitamins.

Cayli 01:06:38  Our body doesn't manufacture certain Vitamins in any significant amount, and we need them to run our body, right? Collagen lines our gut. So it's not what we're eating. It's not making its way to our face. Right. But we need it because it's not a complete protein, but it is a protein, right. So for me it's really about it's not about like, okay, this product, that product, but it's like, are you getting do you have enough vitamin A in your routine? Are you toning your skin less about which toner you use? But it's important to return your skin to the correct meaning balanced, acidity level, because our skin has a layer called the acid mantle, which protects the skin. So I'm less about like, oh, you have to be with this product. You have to be with that product. I'm more about, okay, what do you need to create the best environment for your skin. So for me, you know, you said to you we talked about melasma and how we're melasma sisters.

Cayli 01:07:51  And for me, I can't hide under I can't hide under a hat or a visor. And by the way, it's not making any difference for me really, honestly. Like and maybe if it is, it's minimal for the amount of effort that it is for me. For me? Yeah.

Sarah 01:08:09  For me. Like I went on a college trip for 16 days and I did not wear a hat or a visor because I was like, I'm fine, I'm good. I paid for it big time, right?

Cayli 01:08:19  So for me, I am concerned about the level of vitamin A that I have in my skin and the topical antioxidants. And to me, that's more important for my body than it is for me to wear a visor.

Sarah 01:08:35  But if you take vitamin A or topically, oh, topically. Okay. Because I was going to say if you. But even topically does that you know, how vitamin does it attract the sun. Like do you get pigmentation from it? Because, you know, when teenagers take acting, that is they stay out of the sun.

Cayli 01:08:52  That is so many different things all literally conflating into each other. So, vitamin A, topically, if vitamin A already is an essential micronutrient, it's something that our body needs that we do not manufacture in any significant amount. We need it for our eyesight. So, Accutane is a very strong dose of vitamin A, and there is because vitamin A is fat soluble C. This is why we didn't get into this because geeking out.

Sarah 01:09:21  I know, I know, if everyone can listen to our first episode because we covered all of this. Yeah, listen to it.

Cayli 01:09:26  So I think the thing is, is that there's, you know, this idea of what you need and say, like, oh, you need this product or that product.

Sarah 01:09:37  Okay, but not only the product, but like just the things like you're saying vitamin A, so that if you translate that to layman's terms, it's not really a layman's term, but something that someone would recognize that would be a retinol.

Cayli 01:09:50  So no, no, actually okay.

Cayli 01:09:53  So you don't need a retinol. You need a low form of vitamin A.

Sarah 01:09:56  So what is the what is the name for that. Like if you were looking for a product it.

Cayli 01:10:01  Would be probably a retinol is a lower form as opposed to retinol. but oil is fine to something with a little bit of oil has vitamin A. This is why I feel like women are going out into the world and going to buy products, or young people are going to Sephora and buying products totally unassisted. It is your largest organ. And yet that's what we're we're going to go do that all unassisted. Makes no sense to me.

Sarah 01:10:32  Go to the dermatologist and get bad information, too. They're like, here's like prescription retina.

Cayli 01:10:37  That's also right. And that's also because people can only help you with the toolkit that they have. Right? So that's their toolkit. and I think there's amazing dermatologists who do amazing work, and there's a dermatologists who are like, this is what I have for you, and you're here and you've spent a lot of money.

Cayli 01:10:53  So I feel like you're here for a prescription. So I'm going to give you a prescription. so I think that it's it's hard for me to say. And I think it's just, it's, I'm sure very frustrating to people that I don't have, like, a this is what you should do. These are the products you.

Sarah 01:11:12  Have, like when you do your evening routine on Instagram. Right?

Cayli 01:11:16  But that's my own skin. So you want to know my routine. Yeah.

Sarah 01:11:18  Your routine of the thing because they're going to tend to be pretty similar, don't you think? I mean like, do you do you think oil cleansers versus a gel cleanser is a cream cleanser, like just taking it down to the base.

Cayli 01:11:35  Yeah. So I think for an average.

Sarah 01:11:37  Midlife midlife.

Cayli 01:11:38  Woman, I think a creamy cleanser is probably your safest bet.

Sarah 01:11:42  Okay. Because it's not stripping.

Cayli 01:11:45  I think that the size of an oil cleansers molecule is too large to allow all the action to happen with your serums, and most women are not getting them off or double cleansing to get them off.

Cayli 01:11:57  A gel is usually a little bit too aggressive, unless it's there's certain gels that people can use. Again, it's like that's why. But for a general rule, a creamy which.

Sarah 01:12:09  Creamy cleanser do you use?

Cayli 01:12:11  I use a variety of creamy cleansers. I like the Environ Hydrate Intense Cleanser. I think it's a nice cleanser. It, it feels like I am giving my skin a drink of water. Not like a layer of guac on my skin so I can rinse it clean, but I do have to do a mega rinse.

Sarah 01:12:35  Now do you put it on dry or do you do okay because there's some controversy over like do you use water. There's not.

Cayli 01:12:42  There's no controversy or.

Sarah 01:12:44  Different opinions on TikTok whatever.

Cayli 01:12:46  That's TikTok.

Sarah 01:12:47  Okay. So science why you're here.

Cayli 01:12:49  Science says dry face just knocked over the shovel.

Sarah 01:12:53  See, because we're digging some shit. Here we go. Okay, so the, cream cleanser.

Cayli 01:13:02  Creamy cleanser.

Sarah 01:13:04  and then you said toner, I.

Cayli 01:13:08  I think.

Sarah 01:13:10  Oh, wait.

Sarah 01:13:10  Oh, I know it. I was going to ask you for the shit. Shovel fell. Yeah. Do you wipe it off with a washcloth? No. So because some people like the exfoliating factor.

Cayli 01:13:20  Some people conversation.

Sarah 01:13:22  But you know what I'm talking about.

Cayli 01:13:24  I know, you.

Sarah 01:13:25  See, that's why I'm asking you.

Cayli 01:13:27  We're straddling some places here. Can we Can we have this conversation? I feel like I need to get comfy.

Sarah 01:13:32  Yeah. Get comfortable.

Cayli 01:13:33  All right, so here's mum. All right, here we go.

Sarah 01:13:37  Let's do it.

Cayli 01:13:38  So. All right. Not comfy yet.

Sarah 01:13:43  Okay.

Cayli 01:13:45  I'm I'm going to go there with you okay.

Sarah 01:13:48  Let's do it.

Cayli 01:13:49  So when we talk about this idea of like being non-judgemental, which I am, I am not judgmental. So I don't have I don't I don't give a shit whether you're porous or whether you're, you know, a tramp or whatever it is. I, I care to know you better. Yeah, right. And I don't care what you put on your face.

Cayli 01:14:14  Really. I care that you like your skin. And I know that I can tell you what to do so that you don't have to wear a visor everywhere, but you don't want to listen to what I have to say. And that's your right. And that is your total freedom. And I don't.

Sarah 01:14:31  Want to wear a visor. So tell me what to do.

Cayli 01:14:33  Well, so. Okay, so this is the thing I think the reality is, is that I get stuck of giving people advice in a way that feels very blanket because it's so unique to you. So if you don't want to have to wear a visor, I want you to up your essential fatty acids internally, right? That's one of the most important things, because what's actually happening with the rays from the sun, the UVB rays are creating a chemical reaction with the cholesterol in your skin. Right. So the thing is, is that like vitamin A and talking about vitamin A or B or C or whatever and the compromising or the not compromising of the skin or the stripping of the skin or whatever is all related to everything else that we're doing.

Cayli 01:15:21  It's not in a vacuum. Right. So. I think what's challenging about it is I would love to say like, oh, you should everyone. Realistically, I can say everyone should tone their skin as an example and everyone can benefit from a hyaluronic acid. But there are some people that don't. And I feel like I have to be open to that. If I really want to be a true expert, I have to be open for the variation in the population and the choice piece. And so if you don't want to do this or you don't want to do that, what do you do instead? Right. It's like, don't come for my coffee. Right? And like, you're going to have your coffee the way you're going to have your coffee on the coffee way and don't come from my sugar. And don't tell me when to exercise and how to exercise. And I might find bliss treading water. And you're going. You've got to be fucking kidding me, right?

Sarah 01:16:23  I'll try it. I mean, I'll try drowning for a minute, right? But.

Cayli 01:16:26  But because. Because I've somehow given you enough to think about it. Right. And so that's sort of where it's like living in a place when it comes to advice or coming to comes to skincare, is really getting the person to arrive to where the the place where they're inspired to it because they have to do it every day because it's the cumulative effect of what you do every day. It's not what you do sometimes, and having a bunch of different products and sort of dancing around with a bunch of different products is like changing your diet every five seconds.

Sarah 01:16:55  I don't like doing that. I like having four simple things, but I need the four simple things to work.

Cayli 01:17:01  Yeah, and I think the four simple things, though, get boring to people, right.

Sarah 01:17:06  And they I'm good with boring. I've been married to that for this to the same person for 27 years. I think sometimes certain things are just straightforward and need to be what they are like. You know, you don't need to vary the water.

Sarah 01:17:19  Water is water. I mean, if you want to put hydration powder and it to make it taste like watermelon, whatever.

Cayli 01:17:24  But I think we have beauty as an industry, and beauty has a piece to it where we're talking about self-esteem and we're talking about, agency and we're talking about all these other things, not just what's good for the health of your largest organ. And those are two very separate things and how they look. Right. So healthy skin should be beautiful skin. Right. That should be what it is. And but that's not what's being pushed out into the world.

Sarah 01:18:00  So from you, from your expertise a midlife woman wanting to hit the basics. What are those basics.

Cayli 01:18:08  The basics are cleanse your skin, tone your skin, use a good serum. And probably you do need a moisturizer.

Sarah 01:18:18  Okay. And what's in that toner? Because toner means 100 different things.

Cayli 01:18:23  So it really doesn't mean 100 different things.

Sarah 01:18:26  Because like, I know yours has niacinamide, but I don't know.

Cayli 01:18:28  Well, I don't have.

Sarah 01:18:29  One or I mean, the one that you.

Cayli 01:18:31  The one that I.

Sarah 01:18:31  Use. Yes. The one that you sell, one.

Cayli 01:18:33  That we sell hundreds of toners.

Sarah 01:18:35  The blue one.

Cayli 01:18:36  I just remember the right one for you. And it's. And it's pretty much because it's a strong dose of vitamin B, and most people are deficient in vitamin B. It's a great way to get your vitamin B. Got it? Just like having your collagen in your coffee is a great way to get some protein in there. Right? Okay. Same idea. So it's a good vehicle for that. Okay. I think toner is its purpose is to acidify the skin. So as long as it's doing that and it's bringing the skin back to the proper pH, all the other stuff around it is maybe inconsequential.

Sarah 01:19:11  To do some toners have alcohol in them, like because or is that like old school?

Cayli 01:19:16  Some do.

Sarah 01:19:18  Is that good for us? Is that okay for us or not?

Cayli 01:19:21  Probably going to strip your skin, right?

Sarah 01:19:23  That's what I was saying with toner is stripping your skin.

Sarah 01:19:25  Yeah.

Cayli 01:19:26  So it's I think the idea of toning the skin is it's not part of the cleansing ritual. The cleanser is the cleansing ritual. And this is the balancing part of it. Okay. So it's not meant to like with Seabreeze and like a rite.

Sarah 01:19:42  That's what I say.

Cayli 01:19:43  Go for the skin and be like, look how dirty this thing. Yeah, yeah. If that happens, actually, you want to fully dry your face and cleanse again.

Sarah 01:19:50  Do you spray it or do you spray it onto like a pad? Am I sprayed.

Cayli 01:19:53  Onto my face the one that you're talking about okay.

Sarah 01:19:56  And then what do you do?

Cayli 01:19:59  I put a serum.

Sarah 01:20:00  And what kind of serum?

Cayli 01:20:02  Depends on my mood and what I'm working on. So, like, when I'm feeling a little bit like the skin is quite lax. I like to use something called cross lift, which works like pantyhose for the face I like to call it, so I like that very much.

Sarah 01:20:16  I might need to use that every day though I do.

Cayli 01:20:19  I use it a lot. Oh, you and then I and then I'll go through a phase. But I've been using it pretty religiously now for a while. I like that very much. that has peptides in it that are working on the cellular matrix of the skin. So literally holding the skin up, which is, well, that's good. I like that. a hyaluronic I think a great hyaluronic is great for most people because most people are dehydrated and so the skin is dehydrated.

Sarah 01:20:48  Do you wait a certain amount of time in between steps? That's another what other people are saying thing. Yeah.

Cayli 01:20:57  I think it depends on what you're using. But for the most part, actually your skin, it will penetrate better if it's wet. So I would argue.

Sarah 01:21:10  But do you just layer on one, two, three so you don't wait two minutes until it soaks in that whole thing, okay?

Cayli 01:21:18  I mean, people need shit to do on TikTok, I think. I mean, every I mean.

Sarah 01:21:24  I know I saw one woman the other day using a paint brush to put it on, you know, and there really wasn't a reason for it, but it was just kind of funny.

Cayli 01:21:32  I mean, there's a new TikTok trend for everything every five seconds. It's like I.

Sarah 01:21:37  Try to stay off TikTok. I mean, I already have enough with Instagram. TikTok's like a whole other beast unto itself.

Cayli 01:21:42  Oh, I mean, every little quirk or neurodivergent is suddenly diagnosable or something.

Sarah 01:21:48  You could probably get a hobby on TikTok really quick. Really quick. Yeah, TikTok.

Cayli 01:21:52  I think is a hobby too.

Sarah 01:21:54  For sure. But you could get some super esoteric things going in your life from TikTok, I think. Oh yeah.

Cayli 01:22:01  I mean, I think about all the time you can waste.

Sarah 01:22:03  Wow, I know, okay, so you put the serum on and then what's next? Is there a retinol retinol.

Cayli 01:22:12  My. I have a serum. Yeah, I do use a retinol every day.

Sarah 01:22:15  And does that come after the cross cross lift?

Cayli 01:22:18  Yep I do, I use vitamin A, CrossFit cross lift.

Sarah 01:22:23  So cross lift and then yeah, cross lift.

Cayli 01:22:26  And then and then I use sequence which is a form of vitamin A.

Sarah 01:22:31  And is that like a gentle one.

Cayli 01:22:33  It is a it's a lower form of vitamin A. Vitamin A is fat soluble. So you actually build it up in your fat and hold on to it. So each person has their own happy place with vitamin A, and it's about finding out where your happy place is.

Sarah 01:22:47  Okay, so where does word is yours sit I'm on the.

Cayli 01:22:50  Higher side okay. But I don't use retinol that often.

Sarah 01:22:55  So retinol is the stronger version of retinol. What's the difference. But what's the difference between retinol and retinol? Al because there's ol al and IL, which I learned from you while.

Cayli 01:23:08  Retinol is well.

Sarah 01:23:09  Oh, okay. Maybe that was spelled wrong on TikTok.

Cayli 01:23:13  It was. It was. Oh my gosh, you're good. It was actually, I know exactly the video talking about, so, you know, they're all varying strengths. And I think the reality is, is that we from a consumer standpoint, you'd like to stay in the y l or o l and y l can be used every day and ol should be used equivalent to the amount of decades you are.

Cayli 01:23:41  So we're in our 40s so we can use it four days a week.

Sarah 01:23:45  So do you use it for consecutive days or do you take a day off?

Cayli 01:23:49  It should be probably every other day. Probably is probably a better choice. But you could do it.

Sarah 01:23:55  Do you do your neck?

Cayli 01:23:56  I don't really use it. I don't really use retinol.

Sarah 01:23:59  Oh, the other one. Sorry.

Cayli 01:24:00  Nil every.

Sarah 01:24:01  Day. Okay. And you use your neck.

Cayli 01:24:04  Yeah, but I could be better about my neck.

Sarah 01:24:06  Okay. And the retinol that you use every day.

Cayli 01:24:10  Every day. I mean, it should be going hairline to like, you know, nipple line, but.

Sarah 01:24:17  Okay, that's.

Cayli 01:24:18  Really what you should.

Sarah 01:24:19  Be doing and does. And that does not attract the sun.

Cayli 01:24:22  So it's not attracting the sun which is confusing. So the vitamin A actually.

Sarah 01:24:27  I think that's why I've stayed away from it in the morning. But if you're telling me that I can.

Cayli 01:24:32  It doesn't attract the sun.

Cayli 01:24:33  And actually I'm not. This is where I get into like a TikTok problem or whatever problem attracting the sun would be like if it had. It doesn't pull the sun toward you, right? What it does do actually vitamin A is it actually neutralizes the free radical. So it actually would it supports the skin in the sun. Interesting. So what I think when we talk about attracting the sun, I think is a misnomer. I think what we're trying to say is that the skin is maybe more sensitive and therefore, more vulnerable to the sun, but I don't think it's but it's not attracting the sun.

Sarah 01:25:21  Like an oil would.

Cayli 01:25:22  Correct. And the oil is actually just amplifying the sun.

Sarah 01:25:27  That's where I think I was going wrong before I talked to you in our first episode is I thought, oh my God, my skin. I'm in my 40s. I should be using oil and really hydrating it. And then I was walking out into the sun, even with sunscreen on. But I had the oil on underneath the sunscreen, right? That's a problem.

Cayli 01:25:46  Well, because the because the molecule is amplifying it. The size and shape.

Sarah 01:25:51  So do you ever use oil?

Cayli 01:25:52  I do at night.

Sarah 01:25:54  And then you just make sure you get it off. Yeah. And where does the oil fit in that routine.

Cayli 01:26:00  At the very end.

Sarah 01:26:02  Oh, we haven't gotten to the end yet. Okay, so you put the retinal retinal retinal on.

Cayli 01:26:09  And then I use a C and E complex together. Okay. I don't use it every time I wash my face, I do sometimes I don't use it every single time. important to use it during the day for the antioxidant factor of that.

Sarah 01:26:24  So the C doesn't attract the sun either because some people again, none of it attracts the sun. Okay. But it is a problem to get for melasma people.

Cayli 01:26:34  So it c technically should be again, protecting yourself. C is the great protector of the skin, so it it shouldn't be a problem. It should be brightening the skin. Okay I think the thing is, is like if you're using an unstable form of vitamin C and you're creating a situation where the skin is vulnerable, then and it's and it's too aggressive, right? Because there's four different forms of vitamin C that you could be putting on your face.

Cayli 01:26:59  Right.

Sarah 01:27:00  So what's the type of vitamin C that you like in your clients.

Cayli 01:27:05  That is particular to each person. Okay. So that's that is particularly each person I think the you know, I think it's about looking for whatever you're doing for it to be as stable as possible.

Sarah 01:27:19  And how do you define how do you measure stability?

Cayli 01:27:23  As a very good question, as an average person, I think if you don't know, you're better off. If you don't have any guidance, you're better off staying with brands that work together or a brand that works. You know that you're using one brand. That's why brands are create because they're they're synergistic. Got it. Right. So this dabbling that started to happen I think creates more issues to be honest. So I think you can be more playful with it if you have guidance.

Sarah 01:27:58  Got it. And that's where Knockout Beauty comes in.

Cayli 01:28:02  That's where Knockout beauty comes in.

Sarah 01:28:03  Because you have a skin coordinator who knows your skin, knows your lifestyle, knows what you're doing and can tell you this, this, this, this.

Sarah 01:28:14  And that's why you have a hugely successful business and our skincare expert and people can find that. And you have a beautiful the stores are beautiful like top shelf curation. And you can go on the website and order items to which is nice. I'm I do that too.

Cayli 01:28:32  I think the part of coming in to the store is that you can talk to somebody and get counseling, but we do have consults, you know, virtual consults. So it's not as though they're not available to you if you're not in the store.

Sarah 01:28:46  Got it. Okay. Now, after you put the oil on, what's the oil?

Cayli 01:28:50  Good question. I, I feel like the oil can be a variety of things. Sometimes I have a retinol in my oil, so I'll have okay like that.

Sarah 01:29:03  So you can put that on top of the retinol with the Y. Okay.

Cayli 01:29:09  usually you want your retinol to be closest to your skin because of you want the cellular change to happen. It's you're actually diffusing it the further away it is from your skin.

Cayli 01:29:21  So for some people that are reactive it's nice to have it at the end. Right.

Sarah 01:29:24  Yeah. Because some people put moisturizer on before they use one of the retinol. Exactly. So there's a barrier.

Cayli 01:29:30  Exactly.

Sarah 01:29:31  Got it. Okay. And then you just go you use an eye cream.

Cayli 01:29:35  I bring everything up to my eyes. But I do like an eye cream.

Sarah 01:29:39  So is that like the final. Is that like the icing on the cake I.

Cayli 01:29:43  Put ice cream on sometimes right after my toner. Depends on when.

Sarah 01:29:46  Oh, interesting.

Cayli 01:29:47  Depends on what? What formula I'm using. If I'm using sort of an eye gel, I use it closer to, because it's water based, closer start to the beginning of my routine and the creamier ones closer to the end of my routine.

Sarah 01:30:03  You have, like, a smorgasbord. I'm like, I'm trying to, like, simplify this and you have so many different options.

Cayli 01:30:09  I do own a beauty store.

Sarah 01:30:10  Wow. My husband thinks other shit shovels.

Sarah 01:30:14  I have so many. My husband thinks I own a beauty store because of my bathrooms.

Cayli 01:30:20  Because I want people to feel that way. I want people to have, like, what they use. And I want it to work for them. And I want them to be able to rely on it. And I want them to think about other things, you know? Decision fatigue is such a true and real thing that it's like you shouldn't be thinking about what you have to do to wash your face every day. It should just be sort of rote and be able to just happen and deliver good results.

Sarah 01:30:46  I love that. I think everybody I think we all want that actually. And in terms of makeup, what would you say, like your midlife make up go tos.

Cayli 01:30:57  I think that women tend to need a little bit more oomph when they're older, so they need like a good lip color, sometimes a good cheek.

Sarah 01:31:07  I've eaten all mine off already. No, it looks great. It's staying then.

Cayli 01:31:11  There you go. So, to get a good blush color, your best color match is going to be the inside of your lip. Okay, that soft part of your lip. So I.

Sarah 01:31:20  Should go to Sephora and show the woman my lip.

Cayli 01:31:23  Or match it yourself. so that would be for your cheek and then for your lip. It's actually if you pinch your the pad of your finger, that's like your best color.

Sarah 01:31:39  Oh, I'm way darker than that today.

Cayli 01:31:41  Let me see. pinch it harder with your fingernail. Maybe.

Sarah 01:31:47  Maybe I don't have any blood.

Cayli 01:31:48  That's interesting. I'm not sure I've seen that. What do.

Sarah 01:31:53  You mean?

Cayli 01:31:55  Pinch it this way. Push it that way. Push the blood forward. Yeah. There you go. There you go. There you go. There you go there, go there. There you go. Oh, thank.

Sarah 01:32:01  God I have blood. Yeah, that's. I did have a lot of blood vials. That's a good color. Okay.

Sarah 01:32:06  That's a good.

Cayli 01:32:07  Color. Color for you. It's such a little pinpoint.

Sarah 01:32:09  Do you get that to I don't know. Interesting.

Cayli 01:32:13  You have little fingers. Delicate little baby. I'm kind of.

Sarah 01:32:16  A small person, but you're a small person, too.

Cayli 01:32:19  I think. but I think that the color you have on your lip is just a deeper expression of that color.

Sarah 01:32:28  okay. So what about do you use a primer sometimes, and do you put that over all those other layers?

Cayli 01:32:36  I tend to I never.

Sarah 01:32:37  Understand the order. I tend to.

Cayli 01:32:39  Use a primer, like if I've done my skincare and then I've like, not put makeup on right away.

Sarah 01:32:45  Okay, so it's not definitely part of your tune now, is your nighttime routine the same as the morning routine.

Cayli 01:32:50  Very similar.

Sarah 01:32:51  Okay, so what is what do you eliminate?

Cayli 01:32:54  I don't use oil during the day.

Sarah 01:32:56  Got it. Okay. So then you do those things, you do those steps, then you throw this on screen over.

Sarah 01:33:05  No, you don't use sunscreen. What?

Cayli 01:33:12  That's a whole.

Sarah 01:33:13  Episode in and of itself. Okay. All right, so you don't use sunscreen? I didn't say that. Okay. So what's your last step after your four step routine in the morning?

Cayli 01:33:28  If you are eating sugar and you are having a hormonal event of some sort or.

Sarah 01:33:36  Stress, that's me every day.

Cayli 01:33:37  Apply sunscreen.

Sarah 01:33:38  Okay? Every day. I mean, I should sleep in sunscreen. I should take a bath in sunscreen. No, I'm just kidding.

Cayli 01:33:45  You only want to use sunscreen during the day, and you actually want to get a little bit of sun on your body.

Sarah 01:33:52  You know, I'm fine with that. My body is fine. I just don't want it on my face. Okay. Yeah. My body.

Cayli 01:33:58  I stand by whatever it is that makes you feel good.

Sarah 01:34:01  I love that.

Cayli 01:34:02  I just think that we are we are advising people sometimes to do things. I'm not saying don't use sunscreen. I am not saying to use sunscreen.

Cayli 01:34:15  I'm not saying. I'm saying you have to look at the overall situation of what's happening. And if you're using actives, if you're using retinol, you have to use sunscreen, right? Because you're retinol versus retinol. Is making the skin sun sensitive, right? Vitamin A too much vitamin A so like Accutane is a high, high, high dose of vitamin A That's going to create some sensitivity.

Sarah 01:34:48  So when you use retinol, you do you still use sunscreen.

Cayli 01:34:54  It is advisable if you are using any actives to use sunscreen.

Sarah 01:35:00  Got it. Okay. And then do you put makeup over that.

Cayli 01:35:04  If I wear makeup. Yeah.

Sarah 01:35:05  Do you wear a foundation or tinted moisturizer?

Cayli 01:35:09  I on an everyday basis I wear neither.

Sarah 01:35:13  So then you can't really have melasma. What do you mean? Because I have to cover. I mean, mine's dark and big patches of it. Like I have to cover it.

Cayli 01:35:25  Oh, I see what you're saying. Meaning, like I couldn't possibly have melasma and still be okay walking out of the house.

Sarah 01:35:30  I'm just saying, like, I have big brown patches. Like, I'm not saying I couldn't. I mean, I know I.

Cayli 01:35:36  See what you're saying, but I think it's. I know what you're saying. I guess what I mean is I. Mine is broken up more. I see it, but it's not I don't know.

Sarah 01:35:51  Okay.

Cayli 01:35:53  You're saying you're melasma is.

Sarah 01:35:55  It's like a.

Cayli 01:35:56  Specific. Yeah. And define.

Sarah 01:36:00  Yes.

Cayli 01:36:01  And no matter what you do, you can't break up the actual.

Sarah 01:36:05  Correct.

Cayli 01:36:06  line of demarcation.

Sarah 01:36:09  I mean, I can lighten it, but it.

Cayli 01:36:11  All lightens collectively.

Sarah 01:36:13  Exactly.

Cayli 01:36:14  So it will always have that edge.

Sarah 01:36:16  Yes. But I also haven't gone into the hydroquinone and all of that stuff.

Cayli 01:36:22  Yeah, yeah. No, I agree with that. But I wonder if.

Sarah 01:36:27  I just.

Cayli 01:36:28  Had an idea for you, for your skin as we sit here.

Sarah 01:36:30  Okay.

Cayli 01:36:32  I think that we can do something to help that.

Sarah 01:36:34  Are we talking about that now or later?

Cayli 01:36:36  We can talk about that later.

Cayli 01:36:37  But I think it's a good idea for you. Okay. I think it's so I do have melasma. I absolutely have melasma. I'm sitting in front of you with.

Sarah 01:36:45  I don't see it.

Cayli 01:36:46  Great, I love that. and I, I feel like my melasma is much more in check than it was before, and it takes a long time. I think that's the thing about melasma. It's like you didn't get it in a day. Although what's interesting is we see it bloom in a day.

Sarah 01:37:07  Totally. That's like after that college trip of not of just being out in the sun.

Cayli 01:37:13  I think that the that's the part that's really hard to compute in the mind is that it feels like it blooms almost like, yeah. You go outside and I have melasma but actually that's all brewing underneath. It's there. It's just you haven't turned this. The switch is on and it's just sort of coming and go right I got it. My goal is to turn the switch off.

Sarah 01:37:37  But wouldn't that be so much more of an internal thing of like cutting all sugar, cutting all carbs, not eating dairy like an inflammation.

Cayli 01:37:46  It is an inflammation conversation. Absolutely. There's no question. I do think also, there's a piece of it where we have to look at it from a perspective of I, I need my chocolate every day. I need my I'm not I'm not going without sugar. As as you have said earlier in the so do you want I think it's about minimizing it. It's about being mindful when you're having it actually, so that you're not spiking it at a time when you're also going to be in, you know, having a pina colada midday.

Sarah 01:38:26  Thankfully, I don't drink alcohol, but I'm saying but that would.

Cayli 01:38:28  Be that would be a really tricky thing for melasma because you're spiking your blood sugar, you're upping your inflammation because it's alcohol and it's midday sun.

Sarah 01:38:39  It's like trifecta. Talk about the jackpot. Bingo. Jackpot.

Cayli 01:38:43  But that that melasma that came out in those whatever 45 minutes are going to take, you know, six months. Yeah. I mean h it's going to take at least you know, if you think this face cycles approximately every ten days, give or take depending upon how, how old you are.

Cayli 01:39:04  Right. So it could be as many as two weeks could be as little as seven, but around ten days, you know, and it's seven layers deep. You're talking about 70 days to even start to see a lightning. And that's damage that's lower too. Right. So it's I think what's hard about it is it's very easy to give up on melasma. It's one of the skin concerns. It's very easy to give up on.

Sarah 01:39:32  I know I try not to I mean, I didn't wear a hat, but I just sort of thought maybe I was in a place where it's like it's been stable, but then it kind of built up over two weeks, I think.

Cayli 01:39:45  On the trip. Yeah, I think that that is probably. Treating it more like you would, you know, it's like getting your skin to be metabolically flexible 100%.

Sarah 01:40:03  It's not.

Cayli 01:40:04  I think that's sort of what's happening. I think we have to get your skin to be metabolically flexible.

Sarah 01:40:09  Okay. That's your project.

Cayli 01:40:11  I think it's not about and probably you would never probably be able to go two weeks full sun whatever without like that probably is not going to work for you.

Cayli 01:40:20  But we could probably get it so that like, you don't have to have a visor to walk down the street, right?

Sarah 01:40:26  I mean, I'm not crazy. I've just been trying to be more mindful of it in the summer with, just having done that like two week exposure with, you know, just being in the sun walking, you know, 10,000 steps a day all through college campuses. It was just kind of stupid.

Cayli 01:40:43  My melasma was way worse at times when I was when my son, my skin was not used to the sun.

Sarah 01:40:51  Right, exactly. Because I'm not used to walking 10,000 steps a day outside. And that's what I was doing for two weeks. Right? So that kind of got me into Slippery Slope. Which leads me into what are your thoughts on exfoliation and dermaplaning?

Cayli 01:41:08  I like a micro exfoliation every day, so retinol will give you a micro.

Sarah 01:41:12  So you don't actually have to know. Okay, so you don't believe in the exfoliating scrubs?

Cayli 01:41:18  I think there's fine sometimes if you need them.

Cayli 01:41:20  I think they should be more of, a treatment rather than a regular.

Sarah 01:41:27  Got it.

Cayli 01:41:28  Part of your routine.

Sarah 01:41:28  And I know you have a favorite peel. What is that? Oh, I do have a favorite feel.

Cayli 01:41:32  I have a few I use. I love a couple, and I also really like the revival mask.

Sarah 01:41:40  And do you use both of those in the same week?

Cayli 01:41:43  Sometimes if I'm like wanting to look great on camera or something, yes, I'll use them sort of on like bookends.

Sarah 01:41:51  And is there one that you could use twice a week that would really like help.

Cayli 01:41:55  In the sun? I when it's sunny, I try to be mindful and stop for a while. Got it. I think, you know, come fall I will sort of do like a hard core moment of them and sometimes do them twice in a week just to, like, get everything fresh and turning over quickly again and looking good. I think that you can sleep in the revival mask, which is kind of nice.

Cayli 01:42:24  So it has like a low maintenance quality to it.

Sarah 01:42:27  Until you snuggle up with your husband, then you become high maintenance. Then you become high fitness. The high maintenance wife who's actually really low maintenance, right?

Cayli 01:42:37  I mean, I think I think anything that really matters is a little high maintenance.

Sarah 01:42:44  I agree with you. I have no fucking problem being high maintenance. I admit to being high maintenance when I'm at restaurants. I'm like totally self-aware. I know this is annoying, but I want this, this, this and this. I think if you take ownership and you're not pretending that you're not a pain in the ass, then you're good. Yeah.

Cayli 01:43:02  If you're if you're a complicated order and you deserve to be a complicated order.

Sarah 01:43:06  You know, it's not perfect. But like, like I said, my husband knows, you know, he knew what he was marrying into. And, like, then we're all good. It's not. I don't think he would prefer a total doormat. No.

Sarah 01:43:20  You know, like, wouldn't annoy him during the day. I wouldn't get him going, you know, it wouldn't make him go to take his piano lesson to get away from me. okay. In terms of makeup. Yeah. What are you. If you do wear makeup? What is it?

Cayli 01:43:41  I tend to not get good sleep. I'm up in the middle of the night hot. So I often wear concealer.

Sarah 01:43:50  Okay. Is there a concealer you like the most?

Cayli 01:43:53  I like the guy one a lot.

Sarah 01:43:55  Okay.

Cayli 01:43:57  I like that one a lot.

Sarah 01:43:58  And it stays on.

Cayli 01:43:59  That's why I like it.

Sarah 01:44:01  Is it a wand or is it a. It's a wand.

Cayli 01:44:03  Okay I like a wand and a brush and mascara.

Sarah 01:44:09  Lip gloss. Favorite brands I.

Cayli 01:44:11  Like the La Devgan mascara because it's a tubing. Mascara.

Sarah 01:44:14  And what's a tubing? Mascara means it coats each.

Cayli 01:44:20  individual lash with a tube. So like when you take it off, actually it sort of crumbles in your hand. It feels like your lashes might be.

Cayli 01:44:27  Oh.

Sarah 01:44:27  Interesting. I saw that at your store. I do, I need to go by that, right? I love.

Cayli 01:44:31  This because I will have transfer me.

Sarah 01:44:33  To my daughters. Like your shit's dripping down your face. I'm like, thanks, and I don't, I.

Cayli 01:44:38  Don't like that on me. It also makes me look tired and darker under my eyes.

Sarah 01:44:42  Yeah. So okay, I'm going to get that right after this. Hopefully you're not sold out. Sometimes I go in there, I'm like, you're out of the four things I want. I know she's like, I can get it for you. I can order for you. I'm like, but.

Cayli 01:44:54  Right now, today.

Sarah 01:44:56  Today, lips.

Cayli 01:45:00  I just for me, I care so much about the shape of my lips staying and the integrity of my lips. It's more about hydrating them than anything else. I often don't wear anything on my lips. I also, I don't know, I sometimes I feel like I like a little bit of lip balm, like, you know, treatment on my lips less than I like.

Cayli 01:45:26  But I don't like color necessarily. Although I will wear one.

Sarah 01:45:29  Got it. Okay.

Cayli 01:45:32  I know I'm not that I'm really not that interesting when it comes to this.

Sarah 01:45:36  Okay. Botox and filler. Where do you stand?

Cayli 01:45:39  I think, you know, to each his absolute own. I had Botox, like, maybe, I don't know when it was, I don't know, a couple months ago, five, six maybe. And I was like, this is why I don't do Botox, really. My brow just dropped.

Sarah 01:46:01  Like, oh, wow, I looked like.

Cayli 01:46:03  A sad dog in a cartoon.

Sarah 01:46:05  Oh, it.

Cayli 01:46:06  Was so it like, arched them up here and they went down and it was like, it's just what my face does.

Sarah 01:46:12  With it.

Cayli 01:46:13  And it really depressed me.

Sarah 01:46:15  Interesting filler.

Cayli 01:46:17  I think filler can be a great thing. I think filler has its place.

Sarah 01:46:21  I did it two years ago. I haven't I haven't redone it.

Cayli 01:46:24  I think it's, I think fillers.

Cayli 01:46:29  I think it's not the devil like people think it is. I think people are like, oh, you someone's doing filler there. You know, it's not always.

Sarah 01:46:38  Well, my, my daughter was just like, please don't come home looking like the housewives, you know, like the show. Yeah. Well, that's I think that was like her biggest fear. And I did it. And no one in my house noticed. And my husband is like a hawk. Like he notices if I wear new black leggings like he he nobody said anything. I mean, nobody said anything. And I was like, just don't look at the credit card bill. But it was like it was perfect. I just haven't gone back because I always wonder, like, is it still there? Do I need it? Do I not need it? And I, you know, if.

Cayli 01:47:11  You like the way that you look, then you don't need it. Yeah. And if you feel like, oh, I feel like I'd like to add volume to this area.

Cayli 01:47:24  but I think it can be. It's should be in tiny, little infinitesimal amounts. It shouldn't be. It's in millimeters. Right. So it should be tiny bits. Yeah. So if it's something that, my neck.

Sarah 01:47:36  My neck makes me insane and I'm like, can't you just do a neck lift without your face and without my face? He's like, yeah, but do you want your face to hang over your neck? I'm like, okay, fine, I'll wait till I do both.

Cayli 01:47:49  Yeah. I think, the neck is a tricky thing. I definitely don't pay enough attention to my neck.

Sarah 01:47:55  Oh, well, I have to, because I see it in photos and I'm like, shoot me.

Cayli 01:47:59  I just yeah, I definitely need to be paying better attention.

Sarah 01:48:03  But I don't know exactly what the answers are for. That could.

Cayli 01:48:05  Be like neck accountability.

Sarah 01:48:07  Partners. Yeah. I mean, I, speaking of hyaluronic acid, can you talk about I mean, again, it's like a TikTok thing.

Sarah 01:48:15  Everything says hyaluronic acid. What is for real? Like, what are we looking for?

Cayli 01:48:20  It's a molecule that's pulling a thousand times its weight and water from the surrounding areas, and it can swell to. So that's why it's so exciting to people, because it will hold that much more hydration. Okay. So for women like us, it will give us that. It will, you know, give us that Glossier look.

Sarah 01:48:44  And you use it every day as part of that four step routine.

Cayli 01:48:47  Actually, I use it like every three days because I use a time released version.

Sarah 01:48:50  Oh, look what I brought. Would you buy?

Cayli 01:48:54  Oh, yeah, that's the time release version.

Sarah 01:48:56  I bought this at your store. Oh yeah. Can you show me how to use this? Yeah. Well, you don't want me to show you. Well, no, but do a tutorial. Tutorial? Yeah. Okay. Great. We're so cute. Yeah, I saw that. And I saw Jennifer Fisher had it too.

Sarah 01:49:10  And I was like, oh, my God, this is too complicated. And my husband's.

Cayli 01:49:12  Oh, it's so not complicated.

Sarah 01:49:14  I know, but that's why I thought you would break it down for me.

Cayli 01:49:16  I'm gonna break it down. Can I open it?

Sarah 01:49:19  Yeah, but I can use it again, right? Yeah.

Cayli 01:49:22  Okay, so inside here are these pellets, and this is freeze dried hyaluronic. And then you'll use. Oh, excuse.

Sarah 01:49:29  Me, I love boob. I mean, come on. It's coming out.

Cayli 01:49:33  well, that was like a flesh colored breast here, which is not pretty. okay, so this is the activator. This is the pellet. Wait, can.

Sarah 01:49:41  We see this? Yeah.

Cayli 01:49:44  Okay. So you will activate this pellet with this activator and you will pop one of these out like a Sudafed into your hand, okay. And then you'll open this up and you will drop much more than you think. It's not. Let's see what the direction says. It's 8 to 10 drops.

Cayli 01:50:07  I don't have time to be sitting there 8 to 10 drops. So I'm basically like two droppers full at least. And then it will the whole dropper. Okay. I also want it to get on my neck. I want to do the whole I want to do literally hairline to nipple line. So I want to go all over. And so it takes more than that. And then this will naturally dissolve and the pellet will naturally dissolve. And then I'll just put them together and just that's it. And then I do it every three days because it's actually reactivated. Every time you cleanse your skin and add water to it, every time you take a shower.

Sarah 01:50:41  To reactivate stays in your skin for three days. That's so cool. Okay, so now that's a little less scary.

Cayli 01:50:50  It just looks.

Sarah 01:50:51  I think it just.

Cayli 01:50:52  It's like.

Sarah 01:50:53  Daunting. It's like you're doing like a Dutch test or like, you know what I'm saying? You're like, oh, my God, this is like a science project.

Sarah 01:51:00  It's not a science project.

Cayli 01:51:01  It's just this bit. And I actually like to travel with it, just this. And like, how many other days I'm gone for, like, so if I'm gone for six days, I would take two.

Sarah 01:51:10  Oh, interesting. Okay, I'm going on a trip, so I should take it then?

Cayli 01:51:14  Yeah. It's amazing. Okay. And you dropped.

Sarah 01:51:16  Two droppers.

Cayli 01:51:17  On much of it, right? Like it's not like if you use more of it, something negative will happen.

Sarah 01:51:22  I don't even remember how much it cost.

Cayli 01:51:27  I don't know. Okay.

Sarah 01:51:28  Under $200. Yeah. It wasn't like crazy. Crazy. It wasn't cheap, but it seems like it's worth it.

Cayli 01:51:35  It. I think it's definitely worth it. It's definitely, definitely worth it. Okay, this says it's a 60 day pack, which is interesting. And it's 32 tablets. And technically it should last you for every three days. So technically it should be like a three month supply, not a 60 day pack.

Cayli 01:51:51  But I see how they think it's 60 days as well. But okay, because some people will use it every other day.

Sarah 01:51:56  But you're saying you don't have to.

Cayli 01:51:59  Do every three days.

Sarah 01:52:00  Yeah, 72 hours.

Cayli 01:52:02  That's quite good.

Sarah 01:52:03  All right. So we're that science project is solved.

Cayli 01:52:06  Solved.

Sarah 01:52:07  I don't need my husband to try to help me. I usually give him the annoying project. Give him the annoying projects. But this is a skin project, so I'm not going to give it to you so that. Yeah, I'm like, build this shit. Like, do this. I love to build things. Oh you.

Cayli 01:52:20  Do? Yeah, but maybe you said I can call you in the middle of the night. Yeah. When I'm stressed out and when you need to build something.

Sarah 01:52:26  Oh my God, someone's like, build this fan, do this. I'm like, that's like too many steps for me.

Cayli 01:52:31  I, I.

Sarah 01:52:32  Do you like manuals? Like, do you like reading instruction?

Cayli 01:52:36  Yeah, I want to I want to make sure I have all 17 screws.

Sarah 01:52:39  Oh fuck. I see it's so funny because I'm like an OCD, like I'm a researcher, but I don't want to go through the 17 steps. Right?

Cayli 01:52:46  But like, what happens when you're three quarters of the way through your project and then like, they short shift you tool like some sort.

Sarah 01:52:53  Of that's like when my dad builds a barbecue when I was little from Costco and there was still a bag of parts, that's that would be me, right? Where's my husband? There wouldn't be one extra item.

Cayli 01:53:04  Right? Or there. Or maybe they sent extra bolts, but I'd want to know. I want to know that, you know, I'd.

Sarah 01:53:10  Be like, just send it back and get a new one. There you go. There you go. A lot of midlife women tend to feel stuck. I mean, we all do in all parts of life, but I think especially around this time, we feel sluggish physically, psychologically. What do you have any advice or hacks or things that you turn to when you feel like you're in a rut?

Cayli 01:53:32  Yes.

Cayli 01:53:36  A few things, but one of them is we've talked about this, about getting out of bed. Right. I think that it's just going, doing, like, whatever it is. So when I lived in my apartment in New York City, when I was young, when I would feel stuck or when I feel stuck, now I don't. There's no prep, there's no get ready. There's no like, put your makeup on, there's get out of the house. Just I don't care what you're wearing. No one also gives a shit about what you're wearing.

Sarah 01:54:09  That's true.

Cayli 01:54:10  So it's just like. But get out of the house and get out of the house. And if you can get out of the house and walk, even better, driving sometimes will get you in that thing of like, you're driving, you drive to a destination, you get like a beverage, and you come home.

Sarah 01:54:26  Totally.

Cayli 01:54:27  Back in your bed.

Sarah 01:54:28  And it has sugar in it. Yeah.

Cayli 01:54:30  but if you can just get out.

Cayli 01:54:32  And just kind of move, change the scenery and change and move the body a little bit, it'll help you get unstuck. Okay. I think the other thing to do when you feel stuck is to my dad always says this expression is like, change the vibration. change the vibes, change the vibration. But actually, we're all resonant beings and we're all vibration, right? we're all waves. so change the resonance of what's happening. So whether that be, you know, listening to music or singing or something that actually changes the resonance will help. And if you think about it, think about what if? Better yet, if you can put on a song that you can sing to.

Sarah 01:55:27  Would make sense, right? Yeah. I think that the hamster wheel keep spinning and sometimes we're like, okay, how do we how do we jump off? And the jumping off is scary, but the scary is good too.

Cayli 01:55:42  Oh, yeah. If you jump, the net will appear. But you just have to jump safely.

Cayli 01:55:50  I just I think you have to do it with fear.

Sarah 01:55:53  No, I'm just saying that could be taken in 16 different, different ways.

Cayli 01:55:59  Oh, no, not like that.

Sarah 01:56:01  Yeah, Exactly. I'm just saying. But yes, you. I think that jumping off the hamster wheel and knowing that you're probably not going to die. And that's what you all like. A lot of the guests I've interviewed have said, like just knowing that doing something new and maybe not doing it perfectly, like no one died from that.

Cayli 01:56:20  No one's doing the hamster wheel perfectly either, by the way. Like you're not. There's not a perfect way to do the hamster wheel. The wheel itself is doing the perfection piece of it. You could be like the hamster. If you look at the hamster in the wheel, he's like throwing himself all over the wheel.

Sarah 01:56:36  He's like, you know.

Cayli 01:56:37  Sucking on the.

Sarah 01:56:38  Left, sweating. It's like, it's not.

Cayli 01:56:40  It's not like the hamster is like doing it perfectly.

Cayli 01:56:42  The perfection is coming from the fact that it's a wheel.

Sarah 01:56:45  Yeah.

Cayli 01:56:46  So you're not doing it so well necessarily either. You're, but you're just in the protection of that.

Sarah 01:56:52  The pull. Yeah I hear you now. What is your I know we've talked about a million things. What is your biggest piece of advice for midlife women? Like women wanting to feel that energy or pivot or next thing, or just.

Cayli 01:57:10  I love that you think I'm in the position to be giving anyone anything.

Sarah 01:57:13  You are. You are.

Cayli 01:57:16  you.

Sarah 01:57:16  Have your shit together, like. Like you have a business. You have a marriage, you have two kids. You know, you've gone through dark places. You've had your nutritional and wellness journey. You know what it feels like to feel like shit. And you know what it feels like to not feel like shit.

Cayli 01:57:37  I'll take that.

Sarah 01:57:37  Right?

Cayli 01:57:38  Yeah. Okay. If I wanted to tell somebody like my daughter and I'm thinking about, like, okay, maybe I'm.

Cayli 01:57:57  Who knows where I'll be albeit, you know, 60 when we're all when she's 47, I'll be 77. So if I'm looking back from 77, I don't know that I'll have the same advice. But I but I think about, okay, what if my from today, where I stand now, from what I've learned and what I know is. Trust. Trust. It will be okay. Trust. You've done the work. Trust you know what you're doing. Trust that it will work out that people will show up for you. Catastrophizing everything is not going to make it any better, and it's not going to make it work out. But actually, ironically, the other side of that is actually having belief that it will work out. And kind of moving toward it, I think does help. And I think that there's a lot of, you know, the difference, I think, is we're not talking about some people who are not doing things and saying it will all work out. You can't expect to do nothing and expect it to work out, but you should expect that if you're working at it and you're doing it and you're in it, that it will work out.

Cayli 01:59:21  And so if you can trust to get off the hamster wheel or do whatever it is and be in motion, you know, the expression of like, it all comes out in the wash. It's like, just get in the wash.

Sarah 01:59:38  Get dressed. Get outside. It sounds also simple, but sometimes when you can't see the forest through the trees, those things even seem hard.

Cayli 01:59:49  Yeah. And I think and that's giving a very sort of, you know, a pulled back view of life. Good of advice that I think helps. from like a tactical standpoint of like, what should you do? Like learn about yourself, learn about who you are, be curious about who you are as much as you're curious about other people and what they're interested in. Just like you care about what your children like and what your husband likes, or what your friends like. Be curious about what you like. Be curious about what actually motivates you. What gets you going. Because when you figure that part out, when you know what will make you happy and help you keep going, then you can keep seeking that.

Sarah 02:00:32  Yeah, and I just interviewed another woman who was talking about playing your five year out movie of like, what would your life look like in five years? And your ideal scenario? And I thought that was an interesting concept because, I mean, I'm talking to you about being 75 and not and being able to go up the stairs, but we could even talk about next week, next month, or five years from now. The five year model, it's like long enough, short enough where it's manageable enough.

Cayli 02:01:02  Five years feels a little long to me. Yeah, I got it like three years. It's kind of a good benchmark. I think you can do a lot in three years. I like to think about, like, what is your. I belong to a mentor program, called Pinnacle Global Network, actually. And, their whole thing is about big picture vision. And they look at it as a three year vision. And the idea is about really, future pacing and looking at where you are in three years and how do you get there? What are the steps that need to be taken to get there?

Sarah 02:01:40  And I think a lot of women get overwhelmed in that because they think, okay, well, I have to have this business or I have to have something that's measurable or I have to have lost the £30 or whatever.

Sarah 02:01:54  And I think it goes back to that whole performance benchmark thing that sometimes the things are not going to be measurable, sometimes they just are what they are.

Cayli 02:02:04  So. I think rather than saying, okay, is it about this, whatever that goal is or whatever, what who's that person?

Sarah 02:02:18  Totally.

Cayli 02:02:19  You have to become the person that is going to achieve that goal, right? So somebody who is you will not unless you're in the bed not eating and starving yourself, you're not going to make it very far to lose £30, to lose £30 to leave the house. You have to actually leave the house, eat well, take care of your body. It's it's like there's this idea. First of all, why do we want to lose £30? Because we think that something is going to on the other side of that, become the person on the other side of that. Who's that? Who is that person?

Sarah 02:03:05  That's our job to figure out. Yeah. And I think an instant gratification society and being able to Amazon something in one second or DoorDash it or Postmates it.

Cayli 02:03:15  But you actually want that is what I know. But we think we do. We think we do the other side of it.

Sarah 02:03:22  And it's the work that seems overwhelming and hard. Like we also want someone to say, like Kylie, here are the ten steps to the new you. But there's so much in between those ten steps. I don't want.

Cayli 02:03:34  The new me. I want to be my best me. And I feel like that's, I guess where I don't, I adore you. I, I could sit here and chat to you all day, but I don't want to be you. But I want to. But I love being in your presence. I love all the funny things that you say. All the wisdom that you share, all that brilliance, all the kindness, all the support, all the offerings. But I want to be myself so that I can experience you. But I also want to be the person that you want to have the conversation with.

Sarah 02:04:13  Totally. And but you can also be that way because you're comfortable in your own skin.

Sarah 02:04:20  Okay. I think women who are not comfortable in their own skin have a harder time appreciating other things about other women without being triggered by that, and use it as inspiration rather than like, oh, she's doing this and it seems like she's doing it so well. And that's easy. That must be easy for her or whatever. And I think some women can take that information and use it as an inspiration of like, oh, she can do that. Maybe I could too, versus other women who are like, she's doing that! Or Kylie built Knockout Beauty for her and is mad, you know? And I think it's where you are in the mental headspace of can you use it as inspiration?

Cayli 02:05:11  Because it's not easy. So it's like, it's not fun. There's not there's everything that we see that people have built is blood, sweat and tears.

Sarah 02:05:21  I know I saw some of your posts on Instagram talking about how things can be hard, and that's.

Cayli 02:05:26  Even like, I mean, that's the highlight reel.

Cayli 02:05:29  Like that's the highlight reel. I'm up all night long worried about how I'm going to make sure that everyone, you know, that I can provide the livelihood for the people that I pay. Hey, can I. Can I? You know, make sure I'm doing all the things I'm supposed to be doing. Can I show up for my children? Can I be a good wife? Can I be a good mom? Can I be a good friend? I mean, but at the at the core of like, my worries is just every day is like, what? What if somebody decides to not support me? And what if ten people decide not support me? And what if 50 people decide not to support me? I could really go down that path, right? But all I can do is continue to build, continue to build better and stronger and iterate and not get stuck in that because it's fucking scary.

Sarah 02:06:24  Do you feel like you're alone? Like, do you feel like there's not a ton of.

Cayli 02:06:30  Oh, it's so lonely. It's so lonely.

Sarah 02:06:36  Because there aren't as many women doing the same thing you are. Or because you feel like there's judgment. Like what's the lonely part?

Cayli 02:06:47  The part where you said all the other things were. Not until you say fuck her for building knockout beauty. That's the lonely part. It's hard.

Sarah 02:07:01  So women having envy about that.

Cayli 02:07:06  I don't even know that it's envy because I don't think anybody's envying it. But it's the who does she think she is to do that?

Sarah 02:07:17  Because it's successful.

Cayli 02:07:20  Even if it's not successful.

Sarah 02:07:22  So what do you think their issue is?

Cayli 02:07:24  I don't know. I don't I don't say that about other women. So but the fact that it exists in the space.

Sarah 02:07:34  Right. I mean, but are these people your friends or.

Cayli 02:07:38  No they're not. No one's saying it to me, right that I know of. But you even the even when you just said it, you're like, oh right, that exists.

Sarah 02:07:48  Well, it's like high school again.

Cayli 02:07:50  Yeah. And I think that that's scary and hard.

Sarah 02:07:55  And what what are you do to kind of block out that noise and keep yourself in the same in a centered place?

Cayli 02:08:07  What you think of me is none of my business really. And so I can only try to be my best self, try to keep my compass set. I can only do my best. Try to achieve what feels good to me. I can't try and please you. I can't, I can only try to please myself.

Sarah 02:08:37  And do you think that you that the loneliness piece. What is the loneliness like? You have a ton of friends. You have a husband, you have two kids. What's the loneliness piece?

Cayli 02:08:56  I think the human condition is lonely. I think that's why it's so hard to be a teenager. Because you realize that it's lonely.

Sarah 02:09:07  But at the same time, you seem like someone who enjoys being on their own, too.

Cayli 02:09:13  I do, but I think that there's thoughts and fears and dreams that I dream differently than other people.

Cayli 02:09:23  I think. I think everyone dreams differently than the other person. Right? And that's lonely to dream. Your dreams are different than my dreams. And some of your dreams may feel lonely. And to get there is hard. And you need, you know, if you want to get there quick, go alone. If you want to get there and actually make it happen. And really you got to go together. And so you're you have to find that tribe. And that process of finding tribe is lonely.

Sarah 02:10:00  Do you feel like having business, a business partner or potentially all these franchises? Has that helped or has that made it harder?

Cayli 02:10:12  It helps, but you're not equal partners with them. but it does help. But you have a standard that you have to hold and that they have to hold. but they're incredible people. And so that's really cool. and then there's a shared vision piece to it, which is cool.

Sarah 02:10:30  What's the best part of the knockout journey for you. Like when you wake up and you're like, wait, is that really mine? Did I really create that? Like, what part of that, like, fills you?

Cayli 02:10:42  I love when someone calls me and says, I did not have to think about my skin today.

Cayli 02:10:54  Like, it just. It is. It doesn't have to be a part of their lives anymore of like, worry or fear or frustration or anxiety or insecurity. They just love the way they look and feel. That really lights me up when it's not part of the agenda. They can think about all the other things that lights me up.

Sarah 02:11:15  Is the business part the stressful part? Like, would you rather be one on one with clients in Brentwood all day long?

Cayli 02:11:26  That's a good question. I think there's parts of it all parts of it ultimately can be stressful, right? Because there's parts of working with clients that I just want to deliver for them. I want to give them the best I can possibly give them. I want to give them the real advice, not the TikTok advice, not the advice that someone else. And you have to be tough. Sometimes it's like, no, no, that's not right. That's not real. And that doesn't feel good always. You know, it's not like we're sitting there braiding each other's hair.

Cayli 02:11:57  It's like actually like what you believe is not actually true is a hard conversation to have with somebody. Yeah. Doesn't feel good. so that's not, it's it's I like the business part, actually. I like the I like all of it. I think there are just some days where it's overwhelming. Yeah. And it's scary. Right. Anything. And so it's the work is to live in a place where it's like it's still here. We're still going. You know, and just to keep moving on it and not get stuck in the littles. So hard, so hard.

Sarah 02:12:38  So hard.

Cayli 02:12:39  With everything.

Sarah 02:12:40  I know.

Cayli 02:12:42  It's easy to get stuck in the littles of anything in life. I know you know that £1, that one you know person who said something terrible to you. That one, you know, time that someone said something that hurt your feelings or or worse, that something to your child that hurt their feelings?

Sarah 02:13:02  Oh, God. That's like a whole other thing.

Cayli 02:13:05  Yeah, but it's very easy to get stuck in that.

Cayli 02:13:07  Yeah.

Sarah 02:13:09  I think midlife is a place where you can get very stuck very quickly. And I think that's why I want to talk about all these things and talk about, you know, talk with experts and talk with real humans like yourself, because I feel like I'm on this journey, and if I can bring other people along the journey with me and like someone, here's one thing you say, or three things that you say were that makes them feel more normal and feel like, oh my God, I'm not the only person who feels this way. Like that's what feels good for me.

Cayli 02:13:43  I think there's a depletion that comes with midlife that you're talking about too. And so what happens is it's like you've got. Water and it's pure when you're born and you pour some dirt into it, and then it's like you're sitting there fishing the dirt out of the water, trying to, like, get this thing out and get that thing out and whatever. Well, you're also getting rid of the water, too.

Cayli 02:14:11  So now it's like at midlife, it's like, that's what you're trying to do. You're trying to like, clean it out a little bit.

Sarah 02:14:16  Yeah. Clean it out and add some water back.

Cayli 02:14:18  But it's like instead don't bother trying. Just flush it with goodness. Just if you ultimately flush it with enough goodness, the shit will come out. It will actually flush itself out that fishing for it and and focusing on it and trying to just give it more goodness. More good, more happy, more joy, more positivity. Because it's negativity to try and like and depleting to try and fish it all out.

Sarah 02:14:49  So when you're up at night, are you reminding yourself of this? Yeah, I do like what are what are the glimmers? What are the joys? Because it's so easy to get bogged down in the chaos and the hardship. It's hard.

Cayli 02:15:03  Yeah. I mean, listen, I. It's hard to say this out loud. I'm not up every night anymore. But I was, and it feels very close.

Cayli 02:15:22  It could happen at any moment. Again, at any moment. I could be up all night again. So I don't want to say that it's so far in the past.

Sarah 02:15:31  Was there something that you did that helps you turn that some of that self-talk switch off at night?

Cayli 02:15:42  I wanted to become somebody who handled hard well. I didn't want it to be easy. It was never going to get easy. So dreaming that it was going to get easier or get to the next point was literally depleting my life force. It was taking time away from my family, just sitting there ruminating. So I just decided to. I listen to a woman who her name is Kara Lawson. She's a coach. she coaches the Duke women's basketball team, and she. It actually became viral. The video. and she talks about being someone who handles hard better. Not about waiting for it to get easy. And that all, basically all endeavors that are worth it are not going to be easy. And so part of my desire to handle hard well, to turn that switch off was to recognize it, to name it, and to actually say, like, this isn't getting me anywhere.

Cayli 02:16:45  Like it's not actually solving the problem, and it's depleting my energy during the day to be able to solve the problem.

Sarah 02:16:56  So and was that just like one day you woke up or.

Cayli 02:17:00  I one day I had an awareness of it. And then it was a practice that probably took two years.

Sarah 02:17:09  Meditation, anything specific or just call you just kind of thinking about it and bringing yourself back to it for.

Cayli 02:17:17  That specific thing was bringing myself back to it and really just kind of recentering it like that really is not supportive. That really isn't helpful. That really is. That's an intrusive thought. and then the more I became balanced, the more I craved balance, the more I desired to be.

Sarah 02:17:41  Because you were on your health journey at the same time. so that was making you feel more calibrated. So then you didn't feel as out of control.

Cayli 02:17:49  Exactly. And then the more the less the more regulated I felt, and the less dysregulated I felt, the more I craved feeling regulated and balanced. And then I looked for things that supported that.

Cayli 02:18:04  so whether that was seeing an osteopath or, doing breathwork or, you know, Talking through what was bothering me and not holding it in. I think that it, you know, positive habits beget more positive habits. And so, just starting with a habit is really helpful, a good habit and a good or a good awareness and then building on that because you will crave that feeling.

Sarah 02:18:44  So you started drinking water.

Cayli 02:18:46  I did.

Sarah 02:18:47  And then everything else came after.

Cayli 02:18:50  I wish I could say.

Sarah 02:18:50  It, I know.

Cayli 02:18:51  I wish that, but but.

Sarah 02:18:54  We all. Yeah. No, but it's all the micro things.

Cayli 02:18:57  It's the micro things. It's the micro things. And by the way, no one's going to feel worse for drinking the correct amount of water. I'm not saying go flood your body with water, but make sure you're getting what you need with everything. Make sure you're getting what you need. Make sure you're eating enough food. Make sure you're getting enough movement in making sure you're stimulating your mind.

Cayli 02:19:23  Make sure you're getting enough rest. Make sure you're getting enough touch and tenderness. And if you're not in a relationship, go get a massage. Like, you need people to hug you and touch you. And you need to be around people. It doesn't all have to be like, it looks like this. Get a dog. It doesn't have to be some idea of like, okay, like, you and I happen to have a lot of similarities, but there's a lot of people that are listening to this. They're like, well, I don't that's not part of my life and that's not my existence and that's not my experience and that's not what it is. But it's like, that's okay. There's still so many other things that can fill those pieces because they're just pieces of it.

Sarah 02:20:10  Your pieces.

Cayli 02:20:12  Yours?

Sarah 02:20:12  Yeah. Like you are wanting to do the pool and you.

Cayli 02:20:17  Don't want the pool.

Sarah 02:20:18  Right? And that's okay. But that doesn't mean I will never try the pool. Yeah.

Cayli 02:20:22  And I and I think that part of my responsibility as a good friend to you is to let you know the pools there.

Sarah 02:20:31  I love that, and I feel like that's what this whole podcast is for me is like, hey, you guys, let's discover these golden nuggets about midlife and you don't have to do them. But at least you saw them. They were on the menu. Somebody like threw up the videos of me doing the dumb weights or Kylie in the pool or someone drinking water or this or that, and it might just spark something inside of you. I mean, I've had so many messages from women who are like, oh my God, I started wearing a weighted vest. Oh my God, I started writing that book. Oh my God, you said this and it made me do that. And just being able to see what other people are doing. Not that you have to do those same exact things, but to kind of garner that inspiration of whatever it is that you want to be doing. Right. Yeah. And hopefully our daughters are watching.

Cayli 02:21:26  Or not.

Sarah 02:21:27  Or not I mean I'm, I mean I mean kind of in the sort of metaphorical.

Cayli 02:21:32  Space I meant maybe not this episode. Yeah.

Sarah 02:21:34  No, no, no, but I'm just, you know, watching what we're doing. Yes, I know, because I feel like, you know, teenagers are hard and I have a good one, and I have good ones, you know? But they're complicated. Women are complicated.

Cayli 02:21:47  I think children are always watching. Children are always watching. They're always looking to you for assurance and reassurance. And they're, you know, I think they do. They do keep you in that space of check at times.

Sarah 02:22:07  Orderly. I've had my kids say certain things like, hey mom, like you're posting a lot about blah blah, blah. Like, maybe you know what I mean, but not necessarily about them. Just sort of like, I don't know, interesting takeaways from their perspective. I love that you know and it's not personal. They're just like hey like think about this the same way I would text them and be like hey think about that.

Cayli 02:22:35  I love that that you're in an exchange with them.

Sarah 02:22:39  Yes. I have to be I mean that that's like that's like my parenting golden egg. You know what I mean? Like, my communication with my kids is, like, top priority. My daughter.

Cayli 02:22:52  You need a golden egg here.

Sarah 02:22:55  Golden shovel and a nest in so many things. But, you know, I think my daughter's 17. My son's going to be 20. He's obviously much more open to it than she is right now. She's She hears me. I'm not sure she acknowledges every single thing I'm saying, but she's collecting it in the back of her head. And then two weeks later, she's like, you know, when you said that, blah, blah, blah. It's just at the moment, at the time, she's like, oh my God. Like, why is she saying that? So annoying, so annoying, I know, but parenting has been by far the hardest and best part of life for me.

Cayli 02:23:34  And there's so much.

Sarah 02:23:35  More to come and there's so much more to come. Like crazy, crazy crazy. How can people find you on Instagram?

Cayli 02:23:43  Knockout beauty, on the website and knock@beauty.com. In the Hamptons, in New York City, in Aspen and Dallas, in Locust Valley, in Los Angeles.

Sarah 02:23:58  Wow.

Cayli 02:24:00  A couple places.

Sarah 02:24:01  Do you ever have pinch me moments? No, no. You should. Thanks. You should. You too. My. It's impressive. It's not just I just being able to put all of that together from nothing, you know?

Cayli 02:24:16  Just anyone can do it.

Sarah 02:24:19  That's what I love about it. You know, I think everyone thinks everything is so far away. But it's all in here, and it's all doable.

Cayli 02:24:27  It's all doable. It is work, but it's all doable.

Sarah 02:24:30  But it's good work hard and good.

Cayli 02:24:34  Hard work is good work. Yeah, hard work is good work. It gives you a sense of getting up out of bed. It gives you a sense of like, you know, you can't really stay in your pajamas for that long.

Cayli 02:24:47  You know, you can't really decide to pull away and not reinvest. So it's good.

Sarah 02:24:58  How are we going to wrap this up?

Cayli 02:25:00  I hope I see you soon.

Sarah 02:25:02  Do you have to pee?

Cayli 02:25:03  I mean, always is.

Sarah 02:25:05  I for sure have to pee. Thank you so much for being here. I love having you in person. I know our first episode was on zoom, but I encourage people to watch it, to listen to it because there is so much like technical super skin information in there. And this conversation we have that. But we also have just kind of like midlife woman to midlife woman. And I think I've really wanted to be able to bring this part of the conversation to the conversation. And not just experts talking about necessarily just their fields, but talking about their midlife journey and experiences. I know we there's so many and I feel like this is a nice added piece because I feel like I'm always doing my TMI and my overshare, but the guest doesn't always get to do that because they're talking about their wheelhouse.

Sarah 02:26:00  so we did a Kylie. When you look at cost benefit analysis. It's like like some of my friends don't eat sugar. That that's not an option for me. Like, I cannot take that freedom away from myself, I guess. And I think midlife is this time where we've kind of earned this right to do it as we want to do it. Eat the sugar, don't eat the sugar. But finding out what you're good enough is in all of this and in your nutritional journey. So you hire this coach. Yeah. You up leveled yourself. You realize you needed to alkalis. We need to talk about what that is so everyone understands it. You needed to hydrate. And I'm assuming it was adding some kind of health components to your routine.

Cayli 02:26:51  Yeah. I mean I think it was a lot of Looking at making sure I was hydrated and alkaline. So alkaline turning returning the body to the proper.

Sarah 02:27:06  So you wake up in the morning and you do what?

Cayli 02:27:10  Now or when I first started.

Sarah 02:27:13  Oh. So they're different? Yeah.

Cayli 02:27:15  When I first went on the routine, I had to drink. I had to get in a really good habit of getting a leader in. Otherwise, I wasn't going to drink enough water in the day. Okay.

Sarah 02:27:25  So you would. You would drink, like, more than this.

Cayli 02:27:28  I don't I would drink like that.

Sarah 02:27:29  Yeah. Okay. Like from your nightstand. Yes. Down the hatch. Exactly. Okay. Exactly. And then what happened? Was there anything in that water?

Cayli 02:27:37  No, not in that water. Okay. And then I would have that and then don't come for my coffee. I'm having my coffee. It's my joy. So I, I would drink my coffee. Okay. And, and then at that point probably would drink a greens powder. After that, even though I was probably just drink it before I drank it after, it just was too. I couldn't keep it in. It didn't feel like it. So I think there's this also this concept around, like how you have to do it and it only is going to work if you do it this way.

Cayli 02:28:16  Totally. I think there's things like you're talking about with the skin and with melasma. Right. And you're talking about the pH of the body internally. So the external body likes to live at a acidic pH, and the internal body likes to be alkaline. And so the purpose of toning as an example is to return the skin to the proper pH. So every time you have coffee you are acidifying your body so you can have coffee, but maybe try to make it less acidic so you can put something in it, like a baking soda will.

Sarah 02:28:56  Oh that's interesting.

Cayli 02:28:58  Well actually.

Sarah 02:28:59  So Clara told you to put baking soda in your coffee.

Cayli 02:29:01  She actually told me to get a coffee alkali. But that's the primary ingredient of what's in it.

Sarah 02:29:06  Oh I didn't even know that existed.

Cayli 02:29:09  So the, you know, I think it's about our body. Our our being wants more range, right? The freedom and the and the range is really important. And I think when we're trying to stay too narrow, there's a lot of anxiety and stress in that.

Cayli 02:29:29  And the more range we can have and the ability to get back to center, metabolic.

Sarah 02:29:35  Flexibility.

Cayli 02:29:36  Metabolic flexibility, even getting the hair back right, it's like getting the hair wet and getting the hair back, the easier getting range in there so that there's not anxiety around, like, what if it rains or what if?

Sarah 02:29:49  Or I'm going to Miami in New York and I'm totally prepared to wear a wet bun with my hair.

Cayli 02:29:55  See, because you have. Because you have.

Sarah 02:29:57  Flexibility. Yeah, like that's happening. Like there's no way I'm going to go through a whole blow dry ordeal, walk outside and have fucked hair like that's just not worth my time.

Cayli 02:30:05  But that has huge freedom in it, right? Just being able to say, like, I look good in a bun, like I don't love myself in a bun.

Sarah 02:30:11  Yeah, whatever. And or low pony, you know, low pony. But I love that you the top notch thing.

Cayli 02:30:17  But that's because you know what works for you.

Cayli 02:30:19  And midlife is about figuring out what works like.

Sarah 02:30:22  And what works for you doesn't necessarily mean it's going to work for her and her, but it's normalizing that everyone can have their own version. And I think that's the best part of this journey, is realizing that we can all have a different version.

Cayli 02:30:38  And there are people that want to help you figure it out. There are people that want to help you have that answer. There is that hairdresser who's going to sit with you and help you figure out like you better in a topknot, you better in a low bun. There's that, you know.

Sarah 02:30:52  Oh, I go through hair texture sprays. I mean, I have I do it all because my hair is so thin. And with mid-life now it's even thinner. So I have like a volume problem. So for me, it's like, how do I get the volume? I can get the volume through chemicals, through teasing all these things, but when I have to do it myself, it doesn't look the same.

Sarah 02:31:15  But being okay with that.

Cayli 02:31:17  And I think there's probably somewhere in the world a hairdresser who really has that expertise, who will help you so you don't have to have 7000 hair products, right? And there's probably somebody who can help us navigate our health, like Sarah, where we don't have to try 700 different ways to make it work. There's a rhythm and a reason for it.

Sarah 02:31:42  And so from your nutritional health journey with Sarah and just on your own, Like, what would you say? Like the top five ish things are that you learned from that midlife piece of your journey?

Cayli 02:32:00  drink more water. Number one. And that's also gonna help your skin, right? You're robbing your hyaluronic acid from doing its best job. Honestly, if you're not hydrated. So drink more water. Number one. number two, I think is probably to. Think about when you're eating a little bit more and not I think sometimes I was eating when I didn't need to eat and not eating when I did need to eat.

Cayli 02:32:34  So making sure that I was fueled and feeling a sense of satiety, really feeling full, not trying to feel like, oh, I'm not, I'm not so full. Like if I needed a steak and I needed French fries. That's okay, but have the salad first. Have the steak second. Have the fries last. So that number one, I'm not spiking my blood sugar. Number two, I'm getting the fiber. And then I'm getting in my protein. And then I'm getting in my carb and really working with the. Sarah has an swx plate and working with the sww plate and really thinking about how I was eating and when I was eating and recognizing that, okay, if I'm not going to eat for four more hours, I need food. I need real whole food. It's not a snack, right? It's not like I'm a little pick, a little this, a little bit of that. It's like I might need a full piece of fish at lunch.

Sarah 02:33:31  Did you intermittent fast?

Cayli 02:33:33  I do intermittent.

Sarah 02:33:34  Fast. Oh you do.

Cayli 02:33:35  Yeah I do.

Sarah 02:33:36  So that takes you from what time to what time?

Cayli 02:33:42  I can fast. I'm very flexible in my fasting, so it doesn't really matter. I can do a very long fast.

Sarah 02:33:52  Which are daily.

Cayli 02:33:54  My daily is probably, I definitely don't eat past seven usually. Wow. so. But sometimes it's earlier, so.

Sarah 02:34:07  And you don't find yourself wanting to, like, grab a little dessert or get a snack, or if.

Cayli 02:34:12  Anything, I because I eat a very big lunch and I eat what I want to eat for lunch. Okay.

Sarah 02:34:18  So like like give me an example of lunch.

Cayli 02:34:20  Like sometimes I eat three tacos being black beans and rice and have some chocolate afterward.

Sarah 02:34:25  That's. You just described my meal three times last week. Yeah.

Cayli 02:34:30  So that Cafe.

Sarah 02:34:31  Vida brings the chicken tacos, the beans and the rice, and then I add the avocado.

Cayli 02:34:35  So you're it's a that's a pretty decent sized meal. It's a meal. It's a.

Sarah 02:34:39  It's a there's no like, oh, I'm eating a piece of chicken pepperoni for.

Cayli 02:34:43  Lunch. Yeah. No, no, it's a real meal. And then I'm having chocolate afterwards. Me too. And in the morning, I'm having, you know, not really where I'm having. My morning is happening a little bit later, so it's not like it's 7 a.m.. It's happening more like 9 or 10. and I'm having, like, a real meal, like I'm having eggs and maybe some spinach with my eggs sometimes even because it's late enough. Sometimes, like I'll have broccoli.

Sarah 02:35:14  So does the coffee break your fast?

Cayli 02:35:16  No, because I coffee doesn't break your fast.

Sarah 02:35:20  Because you don't put shit in it like I do.

Cayli 02:35:22  I sometimes put a little bit of half and half in it, which doesn't break your fast.

Sarah 02:35:27  Mine's like a whole I put collagen in it and so.

Cayli 02:35:30  It's like an elixir of some sort. And what do you think you're getting out of that. So that I know that I might have to make an elixir out of my coffee now.

Sarah 02:35:39  I don't know, I feel like because I'm always striving for protein, I know that collagen is not a complete protein, but I don't fucking care. I'm like.

Cayli 02:35:47  It's so you're getting your protein.

Sarah 02:35:49  Yeah. So I've already because I eat oatmeal. I know Sara doesn't love oatmeal, but I eat oatmeal mixed with protein powder. The proven protein powder, even though it's plant, I can't handle the other one in my oatmeal tastes weird. And it has chia seeds, protein powder, organic walnuts that I get from the farmers market guy so it doesn't have all these weird things on it. and cinnamon and almond milk with no fillers, the three trees or whatever. So that's like a substantial thing. Yeah. I have a glass of hot water with lemon and Celtic Celtic salt. I never know how to make it.

Cayli 02:36:27  Here fast anyway. Oh yeah. So it doesn't really. You're. And you're having your coffee at the same time.

Sarah 02:36:31  Yeah. Or like half an hour later I just, I like to eat within a half an hour of waking up.

Cayli 02:36:37  That's what my body's.

Sarah 02:36:38  Is used.

Cayli 02:36:39  To. I'm working by 6 a.m., usually.

Sarah 02:36:42  Got it.

Cayli 02:36:42  So I've already. I'm already. New York is already open. Got it. So I'm rocking and rolling. So?

Sarah 02:36:51  So you're busy and distracted.

Cayli 02:36:53  Yes, yes I am.

Sarah 02:36:54  For me, I'd just be. Would think you'd be thinking about breakfast all day. That's.

Cayli 02:36:58  It's funny that you say that. Now that you say that. I notice that on vacation I'm like, where's my breakfast?

Sarah 02:37:04  Yeah, exactly. I'm like.

Cayli 02:37:06  That's more in my mind. Yeah, I realize that is hunger.

Sarah 02:37:10  Totally. Because I'm like eating breakfast, checking my email, looking at Instagram, like getting my morning sun in my eyes, like I'm doing nonsense things, and like. And then I work out if the workout is part of the day, but again, part of the freedom of midlife and dealing with your good enough's is if I don't feel like working out that day, I don't write. I mean, I'm not saying I skip every day and I don't punish myself if I don't like today.

Sarah 02:37:39  I'm not working out because I'm with you. I mean, really, what are the chances I'm going to get on that treadmill at 4:00 zero, right? Fuck that. No. And you're not going.

Cayli 02:37:48  To crank up the pool. We know that.

Sarah 02:37:49  Oh, that pool's like a cold plunge. No chance. And my son's coming home with his friends, and so there's enough beds, and it's okay, but I'm good. Like, I'm not like, oh, my God, I ate all this shit, and I haven't worked out. It's like, no, like, this is my life. Like, I, I'm easy on myself.

Cayli 02:38:07  But I think that being easy on yourself, I mean, you look better than ever.

Sarah 02:38:13  Oh thank.

Cayli 02:38:13  You. Right. So it obviously works to be a bit to, to be putting in the effort and being easy on yourself. It's to, it's. Yeah dialectic. You can hold where you both things gives me.

Sarah 02:38:24  The because I do work hard when I do it it does give me the flexibility.

Sarah 02:38:29  Like when I go on vacation, I'm not I'm not working out like I'm just going to walk the walk. You know, wherever I'm walking to. But I'm not like a hotel gym person. Not a fucking chance. Nope nope nope. Me either. Nope. Sorry. There's no running shoes. Nothing. Sorry. And my husband isn't either, thank God, because he's so OCD. If he started pulling like, hotel gym shit on me, I'd be like, dude, no no no no no no. So we're on the same page with that. Like he's a psychopath at home, but like on vacation, you know, like some people only work out on vacation. We're like, the opposite of that. We're like, no, I don't even.

Cayli 02:39:10  Understand people that only work.

Sarah 02:39:11  But like, they they feel like motivated, like they're in Hawaii. They're going to work out. They're going to like, eat well, all these things. And I'm.

Cayli 02:39:18  Like injured at.

Sarah 02:39:19  I don't know, I'm the opposite of that.

Sarah 02:39:21  I'm like, I'm sitting on my fat ass scrolling Instagram at the pool. Don't care. Not I don't even know where the gym is.

Cayli 02:39:29  I have no idea where.

Sarah 02:39:30  The gym people are. Like, does the hotel have a gym? I'm like, I have no idea, I don't know. I don't know.

Cayli 02:39:36  And that doesn't feel vacation to me.

Sarah 02:39:38  That doesn't.

Cayli 02:39:38  Feel. But for some people it is.

Sarah 02:39:40  That's what I'm saying. And that's.

Cayli 02:39:41  The freedom.

Sarah 02:39:41  Yeah. Like a five mile hike at 6 a.m.. No thank you. And you're fasting like. No, I'd be thinking about that Snickers bar the whole time. I went on.

Cayli 02:39:51  A went on a 50th birthday, and while I was there, all the women wanted to go on this walk. So of course I go on the walk. My husband comes on the walk, thank God, and we're going uphill. And it's an extreme incline. It's not like a little hill. Yeah. And I mean, I had to stop, I had to and I'm thinking to myself.

Sarah 02:40:18  I'd be peeing on the side.

Cayli 02:40:20  It was intense. And we got to the top and all the men were like, yeah, that was really hard. But I liked the way it felt. I'm like, I hated the way that that felt.

Sarah 02:40:31  Oh, that's like when people want to go camping. I'm like, no, like there's no part of me that wants to do that. I'm not going to lie. Like ever, ever, ever like that just does not work for me.

Cayli 02:40:45  I think that's so good that you know that.

Sarah 02:40:47  Yeah. I mean, it probably makes me a little antisocial, but that's okay. Like you to pick and choose.

Cayli 02:40:53  I think I'm coming to the place where I think maybe I'll. Maybe I'll camp.

Sarah 02:40:57  Really? Yeah.

Cayli 02:40:58  I'm telling you, there's something happening.

Sarah 02:41:01  Okay. Camping for me would be like a four seasons with no AC. I'm not sure.

Cayli 02:41:10  I mean, we're in here and there's AC, so. And you're. I'm happy about it.

Cayli 02:41:13  So yeah.

Sarah 02:41:15  Oh my gosh I love it. Okay so back to the nutrition. So then did you start a whole workout regimen with Sarah. No no. So you just did the food part first.

Cayli 02:41:26  Yeah.

Sarah 02:41:28  Interesting. Okay. And was that was that intentional? Yeah. Because you can't fucking do everything at the same time I love that, and that's bingo jackpot. Because I think that's one of the major things that goes wrong in people's.

Cayli 02:41:43  Can I adopt that? That's bingo jackpot.

Sarah 02:41:46  Hahahahahahaha. The bingo jackpot. The midlife brain. No, but it's true. It's like so many times there's so much information out there and we're trying to do 74 new, different things all at the same time.

Cayli 02:41:59  You're trying a new supplement routine, you're exercising new, you're eating new. It's all new, new, new. And it's all like, all I want to do is get back to the old and I it never I never made a dent. And so I just focused on that.

Sarah 02:42:14  And how long did you stay in the food moment and the water moment without the exercise moment?

Cayli 02:42:20  five months.

Sarah 02:42:22  Okay. And were you, like, weighing yourself, measuring yourself? Or was it more like, how do I feel? Like, what's that approach like where.

Cayli 02:42:31  I did weigh myself because.

Sarah 02:42:33  I'm not aware.

Cayli 02:42:34  But I did weigh myself. But it wasn't like a it wasn't like from an erotic place. It was more from like a we got to get a bench, like we got to know where we are here.

Sarah 02:42:49  Because I think there's a lot to say in that kind of body weight versus muscle fat ratio situation.

Cayli 02:42:55  Well, that's what I was saying. So I think that was it was just a little bit more to know what was going on than it was, more it wasn't really about like, oh, this is what it should be or shouldn't be like a Weight.

Sarah 02:43:09  Watchers kind of thing. Got it.

Cayli 02:43:11  It wasn't, and it was not when I started exercising, it was not to look cuter. I had more energy that I had to burn.

Sarah 02:43:22  Okay.

Cayli 02:43:22  So it wasn't like I was like, oh, and now I want to have a tight tummy and a cute heinie.

Cayli 02:43:29  Like, it was like, I want to I need to spend the new energy that I have so that I can sleep at night.

Sarah 02:43:35  I know it's the sleeping thing too, for sure. I find that the days that I exercise, I sleep so much better.

Cayli 02:43:42  Yeah, so much better.

Sarah 02:43:44  Oh my God. So what's your workout routine now? I swim, that's it. No I walk no dumb fucking weights.

Cayli 02:43:52  No dumb fucking weights.

Sarah 02:43:53  Wow. Interesting. I felt like you'd be you know Sarah rages all over with her.

Cayli 02:43:58  But that's what works for her and that's what works for her clients and her people and her thing. But I don't that's not my freedom.

Sarah 02:44:08  I love that doesn't.

Cayli 02:44:10  Feel good to me.

Sarah 02:44:12  So how often do you swim every day. Oh my God. You have to do your hair every day. I would be in therapy. I would need like ayahuasca, I got.

Speaker UU 02:44:22  Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! Oh, my God, that's so traumatizing.

Sarah 02:44:28  Oh, wow.

Sarah 02:44:31  I would need ayahuasca. I.

Cayli 02:44:34  I don't.

Sarah 02:44:34  Think I ever need ayahuasca. I've never done it. I've never even smoked pot. I love that you then went from. I might eat ayahuasca. Yeah. No, I was just trying to think of an extreme, like extreme? Like, for me to wash my hair every day is like an ayahuasca, like deep dive.

Cayli 02:44:50  So, listen, I've been swimming now every day for a few months, and it might change again.

Sarah 02:44:58  When you say swimming, what does that mean?

Cayli 02:45:01  It's actually looks more like a variety of treading water, actually.

Sarah 02:45:06  Are you wearing weights in your vertical?

Cayli 02:45:09  I'm vertical for the most part, yeah.

Sarah 02:45:12  So you're just treading water?

Cayli 02:45:14  I'm treading what I do, swim back and forth sometimes, but I'm primarily. And I'm trying to, you know, when I started, I was like, treading water and like, my chin was like, barely out of the water. I was struggling and now I'm like, at my collarbone is out of the water.

Sarah 02:45:32  Which word does you get this idea of treading water?

Cayli 02:45:36  Isn't that strange? I know that's really interesting.

Sarah 02:45:39  It's like an analogy for life. I was.

Cayli 02:45:41  Watching that.

Sarah 02:45:42  Analogy from three years ago. I remember you were saying you were burnt out. You were this. You were that like, it's almost like you're treading water is a corollary to that. That's so interesting.

Cayli 02:45:56  I don't know. It feels like it's my choice to tread water. Wow. And it feels like, I don't know, I find it, like, quite joyful.

Sarah 02:46:10  Are you listening to music or.

Cayli 02:46:12  You try sometimes, yes. I talk to my husband. I listen to music. Sometimes I talk on the telephone. I put it on speaker and I talk on the phone.

Sarah 02:46:18  And where are your arms like.

Cayli 02:46:20  They are depending upon the what I'm doing as I'm treading water, whether I'm like doing an eggbeater or whether I'm, you know, doing like a frog scenario.

Sarah 02:46:29  Routine.

Cayli 02:46:30  A little bit.

Sarah 02:46:31  And do you have a swim teacher routine?

Cayli 02:46:34  No, I don't have a swim teacher routine.

Sarah 02:46:37  Did you find it on YouTube? No, you just freestyle. I freestyle. Oh my God, Kylie, I have to come over. I mean, I need to get in the pool. Well, I would get my hair wet for that, I will.

Cayli 02:46:52  I will have a hairdresser. Come. Will you come?

Sarah 02:46:54  Get in the pool.

Cayli 02:46:55  I'll crank up the heat.

Sarah 02:46:56  Do you wear a one piece or two piece?

Cayli 02:46:59  I have a one piece. I just recently purchased a one piece because I felt like that would be better for swimming. And in fact, I just wear the bikini. It's much nicer.

Sarah 02:47:06  Interesting. Okay, I might have to wear a one piece though. I have some extra stomach skin that I don't.

Cayli 02:47:11  No one's looking.

Sarah 02:47:12  I know I like.

Cayli 02:47:13  The way it feels.

Sarah 02:47:14  I see.

Cayli 02:47:15  And then, yeah, I think you'd like it. I really do. And do you wear weights? No.

Sarah 02:47:22  Do you have the floaties? No. Oh, my God, you're like drowning.

Sarah 02:47:26  I can't even, like, handle that.

Cayli 02:47:28  So blissful. It is pure bliss.

Sarah 02:47:34  I mean, I'm coming over. I have to see this and watch. My husband will start treading water too, because he. He's a little like that. Like he likes hard things that are stressed.

Cayli 02:47:43  Like it doesn't. It's. I'm not treading water.

Sarah 02:47:45  Like, for how long are you doing?

Cayli 02:47:47  Half an hour.

Sarah 02:47:50  And did you start at half an hour? Because I'd be drowning in a minute. I feel I.

Cayli 02:47:54  Did started a half an hour, but I didn't tread the whole time. I was sort of bobbing around and whatever, I just my rule was just that I didn't touch the bottom.

Sarah 02:48:04  And does your husband do that or does he actually do laps?

Cayli 02:48:08  Both. He has this thing where it, like, attaches to a tree and then he can swim and he doesn't go anywhere, but.

Sarah 02:48:14  Oh my god, that's such a my husband activity. It's like the weird golf, repetitive golf swinging at night in the backyard.

Sarah 02:48:21  I'm like, what's happening here?

Cayli 02:48:23  But I think for him it's like, I.

Sarah 02:48:26  Bet you it's meditative for you to swim in the same place. And, I don't know, hypnotic ish.

Cayli 02:48:31  I'm not like, I'm not in there.

Sarah 02:48:34  You've never shown it. I've never seen it on an Instagram. I should probably.

Cayli 02:48:37  Show you, but I'm not in there like I got it. You got to show.

Sarah 02:48:41  The whole, like, I don't even know. Like you could start on my more.

Cayli 02:48:45  Like, calm and peaceful. And I'm moving around. I'm listening to music or I'm chatting to my husband, or I'm talking on the telephone. Sometimes I'm talking to somebody on the phone and they're like, who's that? I see I'm in the pool. And then they say, what do you mean you're in the pool? I said, what? I'm on the where, where do you. And they're like, well, where am I, where am I? They always say I'm like, well, I don't know where you are.

Cayli 02:49:08  You're there. Like, where's the phone? The phone is on the edge and I'm not even that close to it.

Sarah 02:49:13  Okay, so then do you wash and blow dry your hair before dinner? Like, what time is this drowning happening? There. I can't.

Cayli 02:49:23  It's.

Sarah 02:49:24  I need ayahuasca after this and I need to pee.

Cayli 02:49:27  I think you might need to pee. Yeah, that is the one thing that's a little bit weird. It does, it does.

Sarah 02:49:34  Do you ever get out to pee?

Cayli 02:49:36  No.

Sarah 02:49:37  You just pee in the pool. I'm just kidding. You just hold it.

Cayli 02:49:40  You don't feel like you have to go to the bathroom until you get.

Sarah 02:49:42  Out, okay? Okay, okay.

Cayli 02:49:43  And then suddenly you're like, oh, do I need.

Sarah 02:49:45  To be like, okay, I bet you've never talked about this on your podcast before.

Cayli 02:49:49  There's so many things I've not talked about that I've talked about today. Oh my God. I mean, including and not limited to the fact that every time you, you know, laugh or sneeze with, you have an estrogen suppository, it's like you blow your nose in your leggings.

Cayli 02:50:06  I mean. I mean, we've really covered some real territory here. Yeah, well.

Sarah 02:50:12  I'm just, you know, trying to, like, loosen you up a little bit, I don't know. Some good ice breakers, don't you think? I mean, I don't know, I feel like I've been talked about our sex lives. I mean, there's so many things we haven't covered. This could be, like, five episodes.

Cayli 02:50:26  I mean, I think that it it would be. We're in a multi-part at this point.

Sarah 02:50:30  I mean, oh my God. Okay, now that we're done drowning in a pool, I'm not saying that lightly because I know that people really do drown. I'm not making fun of that. It's just the thought of you being in a pool. Electively I think treading water to you is the law is.

Cayli 02:50:46  Also that it's maybe feels like an allegory for life. Yes. And my it's such a good word.

Sarah 02:50:52  That's like a high school S.A.T. word. Okay.

Cayli 02:50:55  My, my offering to you would be that it's actually much more like.

Cayli 02:51:08  Recognizing that you're not drowning. Recognizing you can be in the water. It can be all the things that you thought looked like drowning. And actually, you might be supported and suspended.

Sarah 02:51:23  Have you ever thought about the psychological allegorical part? If that's a word to that. So the to the swimming thing or you just swim but you never thought about it from how.

Cayli 02:51:34  So doesn't feel that way. So it has no it wouldn't resonate because it doesn't have that interesting as part of the storyline. Okay. It's very nice.

Sarah 02:51:45  Okay. I just took it to drowning, but I got.

Cayli 02:51:47  You took it to drowning. I when I first went into a state of like, really far apart periods, I would, I would say that I would sit in a bath, a womb of my own making, and I would watch Call the midwife on my iPad.

Sarah 02:52:08  Okay.

Cayli 02:52:09  And just like, weep. And that had more of, like, a metaphorical thing going on. Okay, cool. I felt only peaceful in the tub, and I would.

Cayli 02:52:23  And I wanted to watch that show for whatever reason, and.

Sarah 02:52:36  Our husbands might need a therapy group together.

Cayli 02:52:40  I don't even think my husband cared. He was like, great. Have a nice time. Enjoy the.

Sarah 02:52:43  Tub. No, but just to talk about just the weird shit that we. I don't think.

Cayli 02:52:48  He maybe even.

Sarah 02:52:50  Knows, like, I don't.

Cayli 02:52:51  I don't, I don't I'm not an overshare. So it's not like I am.

Sarah 02:52:54  I'm not like he'll say to me that was not necessary information. Oh, because I also share with him other people. Like if somebody tells me something like gross or weird, Sometimes I feel like because I'm so close with him that I can't just hold that to him. I don't have to tell him who it is, but I can be like so and so, said she. And he's like, oh, if.

Cayli 02:53:14  I'm telling my husband he knows who it is, if I'm bothering to tell him.

Sarah 02:53:17  Oh, he's like, that was really unnecessary information.

Sarah 02:53:20  I didn't need to know that. And I go, but no, no, no, it's like you waking your husband up in the middle of the night. I'm like, no, you need to share this with me because I can't hold on to this weird information by myself.

Cayli 02:53:30  Oh, because, like, you're the vault someone.

Sarah 02:53:32  Yeah, yeah. And then.

Cayli 02:53:33  You need.

Sarah 02:53:34  I'm like, that's just gross and weird. I can't even imagine doing that. I just needed to share that with you. And he's like, that was 100% unnecessary. Haha. But I don't care. It's good. We're cool.

Cayli 02:53:46  But you've been together since high school, right?

Sarah 02:53:48  We haven't been together since high school. We met in ninth grade, but we've been together like 27 consecutive years, so there's there's no fucking surprises. It's just it is what it is. Like he knew what he signed up for. Oh, yeah, the show's on the road.

Cayli 02:54:01  I used to say to my husband that I was going to be on the edge for 10% of the time, and that he'd have to talk me off the ledge.

Cayli 02:54:12  I'm sorry, 90% of the time. And he was like, that's okay, because the other 10% I'd get you okay. And I was like.

Sarah 02:54:21  So nice. That is nice.

Cayli 02:54:22  And I'm very infrequently on the edge and needing to be talked off the edge. And I think that maybe it's because I feel like he doesn't. He would talk me off the ledge if I if I were on it 100%.

Sarah 02:54:35  It's nice to feel that scene and held and to have a spouse like that. I 100% agree and.

Cayli 02:54:41  I feel lucky, like very much, but I think that was a conscious choice.

Sarah 02:54:48  By both of us. Yeah.

Cayli 02:54:52  Is that not why you chose your husband.

Sarah 02:54:53  Well I don't know. I was 19 so you were a baby baby. But I would still make the same choice again. I'm not just saying that he's still the person I would choose over friends, over anything like that's in my kids. No, that's I mean, my kids are obviously equally important, but they know outside of them that like, my husband is my person 100% all the time, no question.

Sarah 02:55:21  And he knows that too. He tells me. I never tell him that, but he knows.

Cayli 02:55:25  Because you're his person.

Sarah 02:55:26  When he tells you that 100%.

Cayli 02:55:28  So you don't tell him, but he tells you kind of.

Sarah 02:55:32  He just knows because I, I just, I do so much and I'm, I feel like I dot all my I's and cross all my t's and do the extra mile. Always. Do you know.

Cayli 02:55:44  What his love languages. What if it's words of affirmation?

Sarah 02:55:49  It's I, you know, I think about that sometimes. Actually. I think we should.

Cayli 02:55:53  Ask.

Sarah 02:55:54  But I think it would be maybe getting to the Jacuzzi, but I don't want to a yeast infection, so I sit on the edge. I don't.

Cayli 02:56:02  I don't think, what would that be? Acts of service.

Sarah 02:56:05  no. Just that he loves routines and that's part of his routine. And I'm not part of those routines, you know what I'm saying? Like, he also like we have he goes into the movie theater and, like, watches, like blood and guts kind of movies that I would never watch.

Sarah 02:56:21  So like, he has his, like, routine.

Cayli 02:56:23  So no quality time.

Sarah 02:56:25  Yeah, but it's not. I just don't want to be part of his daily routine. I don't want to be part of his piano lesson. And I don't need to be a part of golf. I don't.

Cayli 02:56:32  Husband takes a piano lesson.

Sarah 02:56:33  Kylie. That's what I'm fucking saying. He's a full time job unto himself, but he doesn't put.

Cayli 02:56:39  I'm laughing.

Sarah 02:56:40  Because it's his. It's his drowning moment.

Cayli 02:56:43  No, I just I think you said his piano lesson the way.

Sarah 02:56:48  You said it can't.

Cayli 02:56:49  I was not like he's a rock n roller. He's cool. You said it like I'm. He took a.

Sarah 02:56:57  Piano as a mid-life.

Cayli 02:56:58  Hobby. Third grade, having a lesson like third grade to me. But he's actually really good.

Sarah 02:57:04  But he's been committed to it for 12 years. It's 90 minutes on Fridays. Okay, so.

Cayli 02:57:09  Maybe we don't say it with such disdain. That's what he says. Maybe we say, I don't know.

Sarah 02:57:16  I know.

Cayli 02:57:17  My husband and his.

Sarah 02:57:19  Musical.

Cayli 02:57:20  I don't know.

Sarah 02:57:21  Sorry, I don't know.

Cayli 02:57:22  I don't know, but his piano lessons I know sounds like.

Sarah 02:57:26  I know. No, he loves it. And I should give him more credit for it because he does a very nice job with it and he's very committed to it. He has a lot of hobbies, and I don't. I'm actually jealous of him. I talk about that a lot, that he has all these hobbies.

Cayli 02:57:41  If you had a hobby, what would it be?

Sarah 02:57:43  I don't know, that's the problem. I'm looking for one other than my podcast and asking you weird questions.

Cayli 02:57:49  This. So this is a hobby. Okay.

Sarah 02:57:52  Well it's like a hobby passion project slash business. Yeah.

Cayli 02:57:57  So I think it's not a hobby is what I was going to say. Yeah. It's not a hobby.

Sarah 02:58:00  No, it's not a hobby. Okay.

Cayli 02:58:01  So let's not call it that.

Sarah 02:58:03  But I don't I don't have.

Cayli 02:58:04  Hobbies. That's minimizing women.

Cayli 02:58:06  So it's not let's not say that something that like you're doing is a hobby. Okay. knitting is a hobby.

Sarah 02:58:12  Okay, I don't knit. Do you cook? No. At all. That's.

Cayli 02:58:19  You like to organize things?

Sarah 02:58:21  Yeah, I like to organize things. I like to to orchestrate things, but I the actual act of cooking is my least. It's like, worse than doing my hair.

Cayli 02:58:32  Oh, wow.

Sarah 02:58:33  Like I, I have.

Cayli 02:58:35  Considering that now we know.

Sarah 02:58:36  That you.

Cayli 02:58:37  Really don't.

Sarah 02:58:37  I know, but I your hair and my daughter cooks and she's amazing at it. And my mom never cooked. It's like.

Cayli 02:58:44  Okay, so it's not a hobby. So what what are what are the hobbies?

Sarah 02:58:47  I don't have hobbies, I work out.

Cayli 02:58:49  Do you want a hobby?

Sarah 02:58:50  I mean, I do, I don't I'm not sure I can like.

Cayli 02:58:54  So we're wasting energy being jealous of our husband who has hobbies and we don't even want a hobby. No, no.

Sarah 02:58:59  No, I'm saying I do, I just haven't.

Sarah 02:59:01  Nothing has spoken to me like I'm not like, oh my God, I'm dying to do calligraphy, or I'm dying to take a ceramics class, or I want to be a ninja on the side, you know what I'm saying? Like, nothing has.

Cayli 02:59:13  Nothing that you've just said is enticing to me either. But, like.

Sarah 02:59:17  What are your hobbies?

Cayli 02:59:19  I don't have any.

Sarah 02:59:20  See, that's what I'm saying.

Cayli 02:59:23  But here's the.

Sarah 02:59:23  Thing. I'm going to be old and have dementia and live in a nursing home, and our husbands who have hobbies are not going to be.

Cayli 02:59:30  So. I would argue that things that we like to do are actually probably hobbies. They're just not found at like, you know, the Hobby Lobby, like, I.

Sarah 02:59:41  Love I'm a nerd like you. Like I love curating and gathering information, health information, psychological information.

Cayli 02:59:49  But that's a hobby.

Sarah 02:59:50  But it doesn't feel like a fucking piano lesson or like a golf thing, or like it doesn't. You know, if you talk to everybody, it has to sort of have like a, like a purpose, a commitment, a communal aspect to it that I don't have.

Cayli 03:00:08  Is there a communal aspect to the piano lesson?

Sarah 03:00:11  No.

Cayli 03:00:11  But so I hear what you're saying. Yeah. I feel.

Sarah 03:00:14  Like there's lots of.

Cayli 03:00:15  Rules around things that are like.

Sarah 03:00:17  Well, I know I posted a post on Instagram about hobbies and tons of people.

Cayli 03:00:20  What do people say? Tell me.

Sarah 03:00:26  knitting. hiking, walking, meditating. I mean, there was I'd have to go back to.

Cayli 03:00:34  Those are hobbies. but yeah. Pickleball, mahjong, canasta. That feels like an old school hobby.

Sarah 03:00:41  Yeah, but it's very in right now.

Cayli 03:00:43  Like right now, I'm saying. But what we what we think of as the word hobby. I because I think I have hobbies that I think wouldn't qualify as a hobby I really enjoy. I'm about to say this and I sound so crazy. I like looking at like my outfit inspiration and I like putting them in files.

Sarah 03:01:07  Okay, I do that with screenshots with my outfit too.

Cayli 03:01:10  And I put it and I like the way that feels.

Cayli 03:01:13  And then I sometimes like to put them up on my bulletin board.

Sarah 03:01:17  I like that too.

Cayli 03:01:18  And so that's like.

Sarah 03:01:20  Like my husband said to me this morning, I'm just curious why your clothing, you have your own closet. That's quite large, but why your clothing has now moved into the office that's off of our bedroom and your office that connects to your closet. Like, why is why are there, like wardrobe racks? And like what? What's happening? It's taking over our house. And I said to him this morning, because I enjoy it. And he was like, yeah, but your enjoyment doesn't need to take half of the second floor.

Cayli 03:01:52  I hear that, but when you're talking about like, the Screenshotting or whatever, that's like scrapbook adjacent. Yeah.

Sarah 03:01:58  Adjacent. Yes. That's it's good. It's right. It's fashion influencer. Stylish for myself. Adjacent. Yes. Right.

Cayli 03:02:06  So I think there's things that we do that we are not. I love to arrange flowers. That's a hobby of mine.

Cayli 03:02:17  I love to do it. And but I don't think it's like really what I would call a hobby. Right. In the same way. But I like to go. I like all parts, but I like going to select the flowers I like, bring them home. I like taking care of them. I like getting them ready. I like to see how long I can make them last. I like the shapes I can put them in or the lack thereof and sort of the free form going on. But that's not really a hobby. But I love doing all.

Sarah 03:02:44  Floral.

Cayli 03:02:45  Design. But do you know. But but my point is, is I know it's.

Sarah 03:02:48  Not, but that's not we talked about that in the Instagram post is what's your definition of a hobby? And I said, can my hobby be just being me? That's like what I throw out there because I'm a whole thing and so are you. We all are. Like like you said, you do your clothing thing. That's part of being.

Sarah 03:03:08  That's part of who you are and being you. And is it okay just to be you?

Cayli 03:03:12  And sometimes I look at things that I would never wear, but I just like the way it looks. Me too. Right? Like I just feel like it like makes my the juices flow in my mind. Or I love to look at, like, old film stills.

Sarah 03:03:24  I get it. I screenshot people's outfits. I'm like, I would never fucking wear that, but go her, you know what I mean? Like, wow, I love that.

Cayli 03:03:34  But I think we think about like you were saying that, you know, this person's definition of a hobby is this. And it has to have all of these characteristics. But what makes her opinion more valid than yours.

Sarah 03:03:50  Is just an interesting.

Cayli 03:03:52  Thing. No saying. So I think that that's part of the midlife crisis too, is like, who are you listening to? Where are we getting our information from? What do we who's an authority? And then what part of that are we going to apply to our well.

Sarah 03:04:06  Being, our own authority in midlife, as we've talked about, right. Doing what we want to do, pool treading piano lessons, screenshotting, you know, out there outfits, whatever it is, and being okay with that and which we haven't talked about yet, which we will right now, is not judging other people for their stuff. And I think that kind of leads me into another question about, kind of the midlife friendship situation. Like, do you feel like you're in a space where you're auditing at all? No, no. Are your friends your friends, or are you bringing in new friends? I feel like a lot of women in my community are talking about how they're in different stages of that. Some women are editing, some are wanting to add more.

Cayli 03:05:00  I think sometimes people are friends with people that they don't really want to be friends with. Exactly. Circumstance provides that experience. I was never that person so I.

Sarah 03:05:16  Are you a tight lipped person.

Cayli 03:05:18  No.

Sarah 03:05:19  Oh you're not.

Sarah 03:05:19  No.

Cayli 03:05:21  I have a lot of friends from all different walks of life, all different times in my life. once I make a friend, though, I tend to keep them. Got it. I tend to stay, connected to them. So I think maybe I'm a slower to warm up kind of gal. But then once I'm friends with somebody, I'm friends with them for a long time.

Sarah 03:05:40  Got it? And do you feel like your friendships have changed at all in this time of your life, or what you're looking for in a friend?

Cayli 03:05:53  I think that there's a lot of conversation, both out of my mouth, but also out of my friends of like, whatever you need, I'm there. Like, whatever you need. Happy to be there. I think there's, I think a lot of my friends have been friends with for a very, very long time. So 20, 30, 40 years, I mean, really a long time. I still have some friends with one of my preschool.

Sarah 03:06:25  Friends now.

Cayli 03:06:26  And I've had my best friend my whole life. So I think that there's a, a sort of. Now, especially sort of like a as things are getting a little murkier, a little more challenging in some ways. Like I'm here. You're not alone. And, I think, you know, my daughter is in New York, and that's where I'm from. So I have a lot of life there. And my daughter arrived in New York and I think posted that she was in New York, and all my friends were DMing her like, you know, I'm here if you need anything, here's my number, here's my thing, here's my, you know, come to the house anytime or whatever. And it's I think that that is an evolution where there's this sense that it's a, it's a true relationship when someone extend themselves, extends themselves beyond just you and them, but actually into your family or a friend of mine. Her mother was here in a, memory care facility, and I would go get her every week and take her with her dog, and we would go to the, farmers market.

Cayli 03:07:49  And there's a connectivity that feels deeper and more rich than. Yes, of course, when your kids are like, yeah, I'll pick the kid up or I'll take them there or whatever, I'll get them to whatever practice they have. Those aren't real friendships. That's like, you know, a mom helping another mom.

Sarah 03:08:12  do you feel like you've added new people in, like, in this stage of your life or not? Really.

Cayli 03:08:19  I feel like I'm always kind of. I had dinner with a, like a great gal yesterday, a group of women that I knew, and then this other woman that I didn't know, and I was like, oh my gosh, I love.

Sarah 03:08:29  Her, love that.

Cayli 03:08:31  Love her. I think women are more free to be themselves at our age. And so it's easier to connect, to connect to somebody when they're themselves and when you're yourself.

Sarah 03:08:42  That's such a good point, because I feel like I've connected with a lot of new people from starting the podcast and like being in the space.

Sarah 03:08:50  It doesn't mean every single person is my best friend, but it just sort of opens the doors, like you were saying before. Like, if you don't want to get out of bed, there aren't going to be doors opening, right? Like, you have to put yourself in those scenarios, which is not always an easy thing to do. And I think a lot of us struggle with that. It's hard to be uncomfortable and put yourself in like other people's shoes.

Cayli 03:09:14  I think sometimes also when you when your life has been the same, a lot of women that are going through midlife that have I moved across the country. Yeah.

Sarah 03:09:26  Why did you move?

Cayli 03:09:28  Just just the right thing to do. Right? Time to do. It was an opportunity. And that's.

Sarah 03:09:36  Private. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! But do you miss New York? I do.

Cayli 03:09:42  I do, but I go back a lot. I'm going on Thursday, so I go often. I think that there's. But I think changing it up with frequency is helpful.

Sarah 03:09:54  Totally. My husband's on that page, too, because he's like, we're not just going to live here the rest of our lives. Like, our kids are going to be out of the house at 50. We're going to do different shit and change locations and move around. We're not doing the same day every day until we're 100. And at first I was like, okay, but he's really right. You know, if you don't change your environment and change up the people, sometimes it doesn't mean you get rid of the old. It just means like life is all about contrast.

Cayli 03:10:22  I just wanted to I think it's also for us, meaning me and my husband. I think it's nice to dream with somebody else.

Sarah 03:10:32  Totally.

Cayli 03:10:33  And to have a shared dream. And I think to have visions of like what it will be like, you know, and things to look forward to. My, I think one of the harder parts of having teenagers is feeling like, oh my gosh, the sands are literally like flying out through the hourglass.

Sarah 03:10:54  You still have two at home though I do.

Cayli 03:10:56  but it's it's fast approaching. It happens very quickly. And I was having, you know, and then menopause and realizing you're never going to have another baby. And, I think there's a lot of things that you go through, a lot of mourning. And I was actually going for an emergency, mammogram. And I was very anxious and freaked out. I have scans I t anyway, I have a lot of anxiety around my scans just because of my mom, I think. But in general. Yeah. And this woman comes sort of trotting out and so cheerful. And the woman behind the desk was like, bye, mother of the bride. And she was so, like, happy. Wow. And this woman was so happy. And I was like, there is a whole other part that I haven't even entertained. I haven't even thought about that could be buoyant and exciting and filled with joy and filled with, you know, pleasure and excitement that I haven't even thought about yet.

Sarah 03:12:01  I know, me too.

Cayli 03:12:02  And it gave me this incredibly joyful surge. And then I went into my mammogram and I, you know, felt actually much more free and positive. And instead of sitting there wringing my hands and then it's I mean, obviously, I'm telling you the story. It's stuck with me. And I think that it's only just the beginning.

Sarah 03:12:31  I know because and I talk about that a lot. I think especially now with health being the way it is and so much more longevity that we're having. The second half of life is much longer than it used to be. So like I said, my husband and I are empty nesters at 50. Think of how much time we have left. We have so much time and so many different iterations and so much story creation still ahead. And the only way that we can do that in a healthful way is to kind of take care of ourselves now, to tread water. Yeah.

Cayli 03:13:08  Ha ha ha.

Sarah 03:13:09  Ha. But totally. And it's interesting because, like, our parents didn't have as much of that information, obviously.

Sarah 03:13:17  so, like, even for my parents, like, they're sort of playing catch up right now where I'm like, okay, you have to lift the dumb weights like you need to work out. You need to do all these things. Because what we're doing now is the setup for that 75 year old self of like, can we walk up the stairs? Can we travel? Can we live a good life that's not marked by so much body terror and disease?

Cayli 03:13:46  When I was in that place of being, when you're asked about what sort of made me go on that health journey, I was in Italy and I fell down a flight of stairs, a big old marble flight of stairs. And by the way, you never realize how old you are until you fall down the stairs and everyone is gasping. Oh my God! And it was like I was, you know, I was fine. I mean, I was injured, but I was fine and I was much more concerned that I was like, take my son out, or some older person beneath me as I slid down the stairs and but it struck me that I was registering to others as old and fragile.

Cayli 03:14:34  And I thought, oh, I don't want to be fragile. I know, and that's what you're describing of like doing the work now to be able to go up, down the stairs, to be able to get up off the floor, to be able to travel, to be able to be free.

Sarah 03:14:47  Yeah. Because I see that like, you know, different versions of our parents and relatives and it's like, okay, well, this person is able to do this because he did this throughout his life, and this person is not able to do that because they didn't do it. And it's it's very humbling. And I don't want to say inspiring, but kind of triggering in a way of like, okay, I need to be doing this so that I have that freedom to travel, like you said, with my kids and their kids and their spouses and whatever, or I'm going to be trapped in my house by myself.

Cayli 03:15:24  I mean, my dad is 72. I'm 47. He's absolutely stronger than I am.

Cayli 03:15:29  There's no question he's stronger than I am. And he.

Sarah 03:15:32  Has that been part of his life for his whole life or he just he's.

Cayli 03:15:35  Always stayed active. He always is moving. He's always doing. He's always, you know, he's lifting and moving and gets up off the up and down off the floor 10,000 times a day. He's constantly in motion and a body in motion stays in motion. And he's never sitting on his laurels. He's never somebody who's like, not game to go do something. And I think that has made him fit and has made him, you know, he can, you know, pop right up the stairs, pop right down the stairs. I'm much more since I fell down the stairs. That was your thing. I realized once I fell down those stairs, I became fearful of stairs and I thought like, oh, that's not what we want. Like, we do not want to be fearful of stairs like 45.

Sarah 03:16:22  No, I flipped over a bike in Hawaii in 2020.

Cayli 03:16:25  And what, are you afraid of, bikes? No.

Sarah 03:16:29  I'm not afraid of bikes. But I don't ski anymore because I'm afraid of breaking a bone.

Cayli 03:16:35  So the bike transferred into not wanting to.

Sarah 03:16:39  Yeah, because it's.

Cayli 03:16:39  Not a similar.

Sarah 03:16:40  Kind of. Yeah, I'm not a tip. I don't typically bike ride. It was sort of like a family. Oh, let's do this thing. And the worst part is, is we get down the crazy mountain and I flip over because there's a guide at the front, then it's my son, then it's me. And we're like, literally in the part where the houses are and it's drizzling because it's Hawaii and there's a truck, and the guide sort of breaks his bike. And then my son begins to break, and then I break. And of course, I don't know which is the right break. I didn't even know right, left, whatever. I flip over the bike. It's during Covid. Were you injured? Oh, was I injured? I was like, splatter paint.

Sarah 03:17:23  Like I broke a rib. I broke my wrist. I had a shoulder blade. Yeah, and I couldn't go to a hospital. I had to go to urgent care. That was fun. And no one could come in with me. It was a whole thing anyway. And it's scary. It's scary. But it took my my wrist a year to recover. And I just realized how fragile I was. I mean, you don't.

Cayli 03:17:50  Want to be fragile.

Sarah 03:17:50  Yeah, I just I don't want to be fragile, and I. I don't love skiing. I just skied because it was sort of like our family activity, and I just sort of quasi retired from skiing because I hear so many stories about people getting these crazy injuries with skiing that I'm like, what's the cost benefit for that? It's not high enough for me. So I go on the ski trip and I don't ski. But I'm not dying for it. I don't want I never loved it. I just did it because we did it.

Sarah 03:18:21  Yeah. Like it's not like it's any skin off my back. And my husband isn't, like, obsessed with skiing. So if he sees for an hour a day, he's done, you know, he doesn't care. He's not like a crazy skier. So we're good. But having some of those moments, like you're talking about with the stairs or me on the bike, you're like, fuck. Like I have to get my shit together and there's nothing I could have done differently. Obviously it was a freak accident, but it makes you realize, like, how fragile your body is and what you're doing plays into it.

Cayli 03:18:55  I think I've always thought I was it was all sort of fragile because, again, it happens when people die, when you. Yeah, you know, you you're aware of the fragility of life. And I think maybe that's why I also am looking to be free, right, is to just sort of not feel the fragility of life, not feel like it's so tight on me and I'm aware I will always be aware of how fragile life is.

Cayli 03:19:19  So my work is to recognize that it may be can be another way because I'm always afraid everyone, something's going to happen to somebody. I sit here now and I'm paranoid.

Sarah 03:19:29  Yeah, the texting must be a nightmare for you, because it's a nightmare for me having when your kids, when people can reach you at a moment's notice and tell you every single thing bad that's happened. It's not good for people like you and me.

Cayli 03:19:44  Oh, because it, like, triggers you and gets you going.

Sarah 03:19:46  Yeah. It's like I'll get a text from my daughter that's like, blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah blah, like something happened or whatever. And then because I'm such a porous person in my nervous system, it's like, I'm like, I want to solve it right now. I need to stop recording the podcast. I need to go call that doctor and solve that issue. And my husband's always like, Sarah, calm down. Like we're not like nobody's dying. Like we're not three weeks from now.

Sarah 03:20:09  Like, what's the next step right here, right now? Because I'm a much sort of like I jump to the next thing.

Cayli 03:20:16  Have you ever done an episode about being a porous person?

Sarah 03:20:19  No.

Cayli 03:20:20  Or post about it?

Sarah 03:20:22  No, but I should, I should.

Cayli 03:20:25  I think it's a very interesting thing to consider. How porous are you? Do you know that pore size is genetically predetermined?

Sarah 03:20:36  Pore size? I wonder what size my actual pores are. That interesting?

Cayli 03:20:42  Yeah, I recognize they're not the same, but I just thought I'd tell that. Tell you that little tidbit thing.

Sarah 03:20:48  I did not know that.

Cayli 03:20:49  Pore size is genetically predetermined, so you can't actually change the size of your pores. You can change the appearance of your pores. And I wonder, although not the same, but from that it's like, are you are you just porous? Like, is that how people are? And then do we? Are we born that way? And then we spend our lives trying to figure out how to be less porous and to protect ourselves? Or are we more open during different times in life, or do certain things make us? Are we more porous with certain people, or are we just porous people?

Sarah 03:21:33  I've never thought about it that way, but I think that when you are a porous person and a very empathetic person, you do put guardrails up at times so that you don't have to absorb so much that you can't take it anymore.

Sarah 03:21:54  Like, for me, I can be seen as an extrovert and I can also be seen as an introvert. Like if I do three days of boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, I need two days by myself. That doesn't mean I don't talk to my husband or my kids, or I'm antisocial, but I want to just be at home taking the time, doing my own thing, and not having constant interaction with people.

Cayli 03:22:16  So we're using Porus as like a synonym for empath? Yes.

Sarah 03:22:22  What were you interpreting it as?

Cayli 03:22:25  I was open.

Sarah 03:22:26  Oh, okay. Yes. An empath.

Cayli 03:22:28  I, I was thinking more just allowing things.

Sarah 03:22:32  In I yes.

Cayli 03:22:33  Whatever that is.

Sarah 03:22:34  Yes. Exactly.

Cayli 03:22:35  So because that's all of it I think of empath more, Your heart's bleeding, my heart's bleeding.

Sarah 03:22:46  But that's very true.

Cayli 03:22:47  And that porous might be more I. It's just it comes in more like a sponge. Right. And you take it off. I think I'm a sponge, but you're not necessarily mimicking it.

Sarah 03:23:03  I don't think I mimic it, but like if something goes wrong with my kids or my husband or my parents, or like I'm absorbing it or, you know, the whole thing with Israel on October 7th, like there's some videos I could not watch and I would not let myself watch them because what? It would never be unseen for me. Yeah. And I would never be able to let my kids leave my house again. So like, I know where my limitations are. Like, I can post about it, I can talk about it, I can watch certain things, but certain things that are in a certain category. No chance. Like, I know my boundaries. I don't think I've always known my boundaries, so I've let too much in. But one of the benefits of being a midlife woman and having these decades is, okay, I know that happened. I'm aware, but I don't need to actually see it for myself. I don't need to watch videos from the Nova Festival. To know that it happened.

Sarah 03:24:06  I don't need to. To live that inside of my body. Because I'm already living so many layers of emotions for that.

Cayli 03:24:17  I wonder if they're the same empath and porous.

Sarah 03:24:21  I don't know, I have to do a little digging, a little research on that.

Cayli 03:24:24  I don't know, I feel like they might be one and the same and they might be they might be different.

Sarah 03:24:31  But I think porous. If you looked up porous in the dictionary, I'm not sure it would have any emotional component. That's what I mean.

Cayli 03:24:39  That's exactly what I mean.

Sarah 03:24:41  I think it's really more about a surface texture or absorption level, an absorption level.

Cayli 03:24:47  So it's like, are you? I'm the type of person I might watch a movie and think that like the Strong power to, like, suspend, you know, disbelief. So I could absolutely, like, see a movie and turn to my husband, be like, are you grifting me? Right.

Sarah 03:25:10  But I don't watch horror movies. I can't watch rape scenes I like.

Sarah 03:25:15  I know what my limits are like. My husband knows when there's a fast forward situation that he, you know, if he has the remote because he's like, oh shit.

Cayli 03:25:24  She's this sounds.

Sarah 03:25:25  Porous.

Cayli 03:25:25  Yeah. Not, I mean, and maybe also empathetic. Yeah.

Sarah 03:25:29  Like I just could not. That's a no for me.

Cayli 03:25:33  Yeah. I have a lot of things that I'm like, that's not good.

Sarah 03:25:36  I don't need.

Cayli 03:25:37  To bring that in.

Sarah 03:25:37  Yeah, exactly. That's the thing. Like, my parents watched the news like all the time and I'm like, keep it. You're bringing in so much of other people's stuff that you don't need. It doesn't mean you're not, like, culturally aware of what's happening in the world, but like at the same time, like you don't need to sponge up all of that chaos.

Cayli 03:25:59  Yeah. I also sometimes feel like we can invoke things as well by sort of speaking them into existence, or talking them through or talking like there's too much of that too.

Cayli 03:26:09  Oh my.

Sarah 03:26:09  God. Covid. My mom, like she's still traumatized by that. You know, like still has that like Covid filter on life. And I'm like, oh my god. Like come back, come back. Because she watched so much news in like horror. Yeah I don't know. So yeah that's a, that's a whole other that's a whole other episode Kylie. Hey peeps, it's me again. I listened to this episode with the one and only Kylie Cavaco rack of Knockout Beauty, so I could summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listen to a long episode, I'm like, oh my God, I love that. But then I can't even fucking remember the specifics. This is why I come back and do a golden nugget summary In this episode, we dug deep with our golden shit shovels in a conversation about midlife fulfillment, mental health, skin care, and so much more. And by the way, you can also watch the entire episode on YouTube.

Sarah 03:27:09  You get to see our faces. You get to see our clothes. It's just kind of fun sometimes to watch it. Okay, Golden nugget number one midlife fulfillment and identity are fulfillment. The midlife topic that we keep coming back to. Kylie emphasized that it's important to have things in midlife that light you up, that you get excited and they keep you going for a huge portion of life. That thing that lights us up is our children, and that fulfillment comes from them, and that becomes a major part of our identity when they become more independent, our kids and that part of our identity isn't needed as much and just kind of gets a little bit faded. That's where this lack of fulfillment comes into play. It feels so big. I mean, I'm half empty nest right now and I feel it big time. Fulfillment and midlife can be about exploring the dynamics of our identity outside of being a mom, a wife, a career person. What are those things that you did when you were young that were quirky or fun, or you had passion about? Were you a hula hoop or just kidding, like things that maybe you kind of forgot about? Do those aspects of you have room to breathe right now? Could you bring them back up to the surface? Can you let things come up that you've been putting off for a long time, because all your energy has been focused on your kids and or a career that perhaps you want to pivot in.

Sarah 03:28:36  Kylie recognizes that a big part of this fulfillment in midlife comes from embracing identity and letting part of ourselves come out to play. Golden nugget number two staying present. Sending the kids to college is like a huge sink to the heart. Ouch. When Jake left, I was so happy for him, but so sad to know that he was going to not be in the house every day. This is what I called hard and good. Like so hard that he's leaving and so good that he's like fully baked and cooked and can be an independent person in the real world. And I can't lie, it still stings a little every time he leaves. It doesn't get easier. I just get stronger. And Kylie reminded me that it doesn't have to get easier. It's okay for that to be a difficult part of my life right now. She says that we spend so much time looking for things to beat just a little easier, that it takes us out of the present moment. This is such a good reminder, she says, that when we adopt this kind of thinking, we end up wishing away the time that we have with like our people, especially our kids, thinking of when things were easier or when they were babies.

Sarah 03:29:49  She says that this concept doesn't just apply to our kids, but to careers too. And sometimes people put their whole career or their passion on hold, waiting for a better time to start it. Which when she says is like, it really doesn't make much sense. And now it's time to focus on us. So peeps, if you are waiting for a sign to start that thing, or take that pottery class, or play the pickleball or mahjong or delve into cooking, this is it. This is your sine. Start now because the easier time may never come. Time is passing regardless of whether you start or you don't start. So do yourself a favor and just start. Start messy. Golden nugget. Number three checking boxes. Okay, up until midlife, I have felt like I have been the checking box queen on a massive to do list that is my life. Go to college, graduate, get a PhD, get married, have a kid, Raise the kids. Send the kids off to college.

Sarah 03:30:49  It was straightforward and structured, very performance driven. It doesn't mean I didn't enjoy it. It was just seemed like a very linear path. One of my kids got older and they didn't need me as much, and the boxes to check off were getting less and less. Now what? The reason I love this podcast is getting to hear the perspectives that midlife women have on these types of subjects. I love Kylie's perspective on the box checking analogy because it was vastly different from mine. She didn't see it that way. Kylie says that she doesn't have boxes and she doesn't like the idea of checking them off. She attributes this to the way that she grew up, and feels like the more boxes she checked off, the closer she was to death. Wow. Such a different way of looking at it. When I hear her say this, it reminds me that I don't need to be looking for the next box to do or cross something off the to do list.

Sarah 03:31:49  I mean, sometimes the path is just the curvy linear path. Golden nugget number four finding your freedom. Like I always say, it's not about your friend, your sister, or your spouse. It's not about what works for your favorite social media bestie. Although it's helpful to hear, and I love that you guys all have friendships with me, it's about you and what works for you. As you listen to more of my conversation with Kylie, or you go back and listen again, which a lot of you do, or watch it on YouTube. A big theme for Kylie is doing what works for you. So when it comes to finding your midlife freedom, Kylie loves to dunk her head underwater when she goes in the pool and she loves the pool. This is part of her midlife freedom. She fucking gets her hair wet. I do not get my hair. What do you. If you ask me? That sounds like a personal nightmare. Like I said, I don't love pools. I just get my feet wet.

Sarah 03:32:48  I might not even put a bathing suit on. And of course, the visor. Bitch. My special visor will make an appearance. My midlife freedom looks more like saving my blowout at all costs, because that's what makes me feel good and free is my fucking blow dry. Knowing that I don't have to blow out my hair again makes me feel free. Wearing my fucking bitch visor makes me feel free. But if you ask Kylie, she's not really that into the visor. She thinks that I should be upping my fatty acids to protect myself from my melasma, and that should make me feel freer from having to wear the visor. But until I get my fatty acids up, I am wearing the visor. This is not a medical podcast. That's just an opinion from a skincare expert. And that's what midlife freedom is all about doing. You Golden nugget number five creating the best environment for your skin. I love this advice so much, because it's not as much about being on the hunt for the best products as I originally thought.

Sarah 03:33:52  Kylie says that the most important thing to do for your skin is to create the best environment for your skin. Something to keep in mind is that the gut is lined with collagen, and the food we are eating isn't always making it to our face. This means that we are creating the best environment for our skin by making sure our body is nourished with vitamins. This is about getting enough vitamin A in collagen and making sure that we're at the correct balance and acidity level for optimal skin protection. The gut, the gut, the God. Kylie reminds us that our skin is the largest organ in our body, and we have to take care of it. It'll be more about the steps you are taking, not the products, the routine. How many times a week are you doing it? Staying consistent. So yes, toning your skin is important, for example. But it's not necessarily always about the brand of the toner. It's more about staying consistent and just doing the damn toner. It's hard, but it's possible.

Sarah 03:34:52  Golden nugget number six. This is where Knockout Beauty comes in. Okay, so I know there is so much information floating around about skin care routine and products, which is amazing, but it's also overwhelming. There's so much information. It's so easy to get lost in it. Trying a ton of products, ending up like spending a ton of money. You get maybe get acne, maybe you get a rash. Who wants that? Not me. If you are going to invest in a products for your skin, you are going to want to know that they all need to complement each other well. This is where a company like Knock Out Beauty comes in a personalized signature approach just for you. Kylie says that if you don't have guidance, it's better to stay with brands that work together, aka using one brand potentially. That's why brands are made, because they work together synergistically. All the products work together. This is where Knockout Beauty comes in because they give you a skin care coordinator who knows your skin and your lifestyle, and can guide you on whether or not a product is going to be helpful or hurtful to you.

Sarah 03:35:59  Golden nugget number seven the four step routine. The four basic steps might be boring to you compared to the 17 step skincare routine you might be getting from your online social media. And that's okay. Kylie says that it's not what you do sometimes. It's what you do all the time, and it's not about dancing around with a bunch of different products, because that would be like changing your diet every five seconds. The four basic steps that Kylie lives by are cleanse, tone serum. Moisturize. Keep it simple. Keep it going. Figure out the products that work for you and only you. And of course, I have a full list of every product mentioned is in this episode in the show. Notes. Golden nugget number eight getting unstuck. I absolutely adore this advice from Kylie of what to do when you're feeling stuck. I know we've all been there. Whether you are stuck in bed or stuck on the hamster wheel of sameness, Kylie says that the best thing you can do is just go. There's no getting ready or prep time, just get up and go.

Sarah 03:37:02  But you know me. I have to put makeup on first. Get out of the house. No excuses, she says. No putting makeup on. I put makeup on and just get up and get going. Go get a coffee. Get in the car. No one cares what you're wearing or if your hair is greasy. The only way to get unstuck is to do something differently fast. Just go start moving now. Switch up the vibe. Literally change your vibration. And this doesn't have to be super woowoo either. You can just put on some music. Bonus points if it's a song that you can sing along to you remember the lyrics We are all about vibration, so if you can change your resonance, you can feel differently. Just metaphorically jump off the fucking hamster wheel and the net will appear. You got this golden nugget. Number nine trust. Trusting in yourself and the universe is half the fucking battle. But if you can practice trust, then you're putting yourself at a huge advantage. Kylie says that it's crucial to trust that it will all be okay.

Sarah 03:37:59  Trust that you've done the work. Trust that you know you're doing and that it will all work out. Trust the right people will show up for you and that everything is working in your favour. I love this advice and I need to listen to a recording of her saying this on a loop at night because it's so easy to catastrophize things, but the truth is that will not make anything better. It might actually increase the chances of an undesired outcome. Positive mindset peeps. If you're actively working towards something, then it's all going to work out for you. Golden nugget number ten being you. We all have that goal and achievement that we are working towards and all have our own definitions of success, and that's great. We aren't all supposed to be the same. This is a big theme, and a lot of the advice that Kylie has given us throughout this whole episode. It's amazing to see someone doing something and being inspired by them. It's also easy to get triggered by other people's success. This is something to look inward about.

Sarah 03:38:58  Why is that a trigger? Why is that making me jealous? Why is that pissing me off? Can I use this as inspiration to inspire me to do something for myself? The goal is not for everyone to be the same. Kylie appreciates me, but she doesn't want to be me and vice versa. It's good to be different and dynamic. Our differences can be inspiring and bring us together fulfilling for fulfilling connections and conversations. Remember my sex and the city mini series? Remember how the characters in the show were also different, but that's what made it amazing. They were all bringing something different and unique to the table and we love them all for it. This is the same concept. Not everyone wants to be a Carrie and that's okay. In fact, that's a good thing. So don't let other people success trigger you. Just use it as information for something you might be seeking and embrace your uniqueness. Golden nugget number 11 I know this is so long you guys, but the episode was long, so I want to give you all the juicy nuggets.

Sarah 03:39:58  Golden nugget number 11. Finding your motivation is key. There are so many little nuggets throughout this whole episode. One of my favorite things that Kylie said was to get curious about your motivations and to really pay attention to what gets you going. And then when you figure this part out, to seek out more of that and to incorporate more of that into your life, when you know what makes you happy, it's really easy to keep going. For me, I love knowing that my platform is helping women feel less alone in their midlife journeys, and that is super motivating for me. Kylie's motivation is hearing a customer tell her that they no longer are worrying about their skin, and they're feeling so comfortable and good in it. We've talked a lot about finding your why, and it's so important because it's the driving force behind everything. The gold is dripping off these nuggets. Grab it, use it. There are three things you can do first. Subscribe to the podcast. Second, share it with some friends who like midlife shit.

Sarah 03:40:58  And third, write an Apple review. Writing reviews is really annoying. It's an extra step, but guess what? It really makes the podcast grow. You think your little review won't matter, but it does. You all matter. And now you can watch this episode on YouTube. DM me. You know, I always respond. Oh, and of course, follow my Instagram at the flexible, neurotic duh.