Poolside Midlife TMI!

*Jen Sattler * (00:00:00) -  Important for us all to find something that we like to do, and it gives us like a purpose and makes us happy because we're so busy making everybody else happy, like it's important for us to do something for us.

*Sarah Milken * (00:00:16) -  Hey peeps, welcome to the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Sarah Millican. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like last fucking year. I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD, wipe the menopause sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shit shovel, and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just luck, coffee and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this. We were just going to announce that I'm wearing a one piece bathing suit. We're just winging it, right? And I'm.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:06) -  Winging it. Definitely.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:08) -  I'm sitting on a leather chair and my fucking inner thighs are sweating.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:12) -  I mean, you look hot.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:13) -  I don't know.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:15) -  Jean small. You are.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:17) -  You look how fucking tan you are.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:19) -  Well, I've been I was just literally. I was on the chair with my cover up, up to here because I'm trying to stay out of the sun, so I haven't.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:27) -  I'm like, I'm calling myself a visor bitch because I'm always wearing a visor. It's so unattractive. But I need to do what.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:35) -  Saves the skin.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:36) -  So I know gotta do. We gotta do with this age, right? We'll just pretend that I'm at the pool.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:41) -  It's.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:41) -  I'm usually not in a bikini because I don't wear bikinis anymore. I've retired those.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:46) -  People. A bikini holds the boobs better.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:48) -  I know you have really good boobs.

*Jen Sattler * (00:01:51) -  Well, they're they're hanging in there for now.

*Sarah Milken * (00:01:53) -  I know I need to, like, readdress that situation. Like gravity. Gravity has kicked in, and I'm looking at your boobs going, Okay, maybe I need to re.

*Jen Sattler * (00:02:05) -  I'm. I'm still good.

*Sarah Milken * (00:02:07) -  Myself. Welcome back to the next episode of the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. I'm Doctor Sarah Millican, the flexible neurotic. This is the Midlife Self Reinvention podcast, where we dig into all the Uggs and fabulosity of midlife. Today I have a really fun guest. I mean, look, she fucking showed up to the podcast in a triangle bikini. I can't wait for this to be on YouTube. She has an amazing Instagram account. I guess you could call her a fashion influencer. Mixed with everybody's Instagram bestie on her daily coffee talk, she shares fashion, world events, how to do at home, Louis Vuitton purse repairs, how maybe her husband annoyed her. What's happening at Pilates? The latest and greatest shopping finds from Target to Celine. I don't even know. Want to know how much I've spent shopping on your links, to be honest. Like, thankfully my credit card does not say Jen Sattler fines and I just said your name. I don't even want to know how you get all of this done because I can't do links I have no idea how to do that.

*Sarah Milken * (00:03:19) -  I love her and I already said her name. And her name is Jen Sattler. Hi, Jen.

*Jen Sattler * (00:03:25) -  Hi, Sarah. I know, I feel we're like best friends.

*Sarah Milken * (00:03:27) -  I know we're like, totally best friends. I just want to say that I want to thank you for all of your support for my podcast since the beginning. I have no idea how you found me. I don't know how I found you, but you're like the person who's like, listening to the podcast, going on your walk, sharing about it, resharing about it, and I so appreciate it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:03:53) -  I don't know how we found each other either, but I feel like what you say always resonates with me. All your guests, like everything resonates with me and when something resonates with me, I have to share it with everybody. So I don't know who's listening, but I always have to share it. So I appreciate you and everybody that you always have on these shows and everything that you talk about, because it's so important for all of us in our age.

*Jen Sattler * (00:04:19) -  So we should all be listening to Sarah.

*Sarah Milken * (00:04:22) -  Oh no, we should all be watching you on, on your Instagram. Okay. So as you know, part of this podcast is the golden Shovel, this sort of metaphorical and real tool where we dig into all the mid-life layers of shit. It's like raising teenagers, your body kind of falling to pieces and putting it back together, or hormones, marriages, wanting to reset all the things. And I bet you have like 100 different shovels. You probably have a tie dye shovel. You probably have a bedazzled shovel.

*Jen Sattler * (00:04:58) -  I don't think I've ever bedazzled before. That's one I've never done before.

*Sarah Milken * (00:05:01) -  But I feel like that could have been in your past.

*Jen Sattler * (00:05:04) -  No, no, no, I think it's too, to intricate for me. I don't know if I have.

*Sarah Milken * (00:05:10) -  Yeah. See, I don't like very specific things like that either, because I don't have the patience for it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:05:15) -  Yeah. That I might not have the patience for, But that's the.

*Sarah Milken * (00:05:20) -  Thing we're going to have to get into.

*Jen Sattler * (00:05:22) -  If we all are honest, we all have a million troubles. Because if we're not being honest, then, you know, like we're just living in a fantasy world because we all have shit. Nobody has, like a perfect life. And so we just talk about it. Nobody else does. And I think it's important to talk about it because we're all dealing with it. So that's how that's how I feel.

*Sarah Milken * (00:05:43) -  Do you ever feel like it's there's a certain range of, like, too much TMI, too little TMI?

*Jen Sattler * (00:05:54) -  definitely. And, you know, you get pushed back on a lot of things in DMs. So but also, you know, I'll always say something like, I know you're not going to agree, but I'm going to say it anyway, because for me, it's like, I really I think that I started all of this with stories because I have to get everything out of my head, like for my own, like to relieve my own anxiety and all of those things.

*Jen Sattler * (00:06:21) -  Like, I feel like when I get on here and talk to whoever and however it started, I don't even remember. It just makes me like, feel lighter because it's getting out of my own head. but there's pushback. A lot of DMs. I mean, I get a lot of DMs and a lot of people don't agree with a lot of things. I say, so you can't make everybody happy, but.

*Sarah Milken * (00:06:42) -  And does that ever does that ever get to you or have you had an ability to compartmentalize it? Like, do you go to sleep with it or you're just like,

*Jen Sattler * (00:06:52) -  no, it gets to you. Some like it. Definitely. You could say it doesn't bother me, and it doesn't bother me like it hurts my feelings, but it bothers me that I have to, like, repeat what somebody said to me and, like, respond to it, because that's another I have to get out of my head, you know? So there are shitty comments all the time.

*Sarah Milken * (00:07:15) -  Now, are the comments about you personally? I mean, I know you talk about controversial topics or not even controversial, but also just like important.

*Sarah Milken * (00:07:23) -  You know, I was going to talk about it later, but we can talk about it now. It's like the whole Jewish thing, like, you and I are both Jewish. October 7th. We don't have to get into all of that. But I think if people follow us, they know how we feel. Did you feel like that? Those are the kinds of topics where people get put, you get pushback on or someone's like, why are you posting an expensive purse?

*Jen Sattler * (00:07:47) -  well, definitely Israel. people tell me to stay in my lane. I, I like to for fashion, but, you know, why are you getting so political? a lot of people send me articles, you know, that are the other side, and I don't. I try to be, you know, very respectful of all of it. And, but it's important for me to share it. So if someone's going to unfollow me because of something I post, whether it's because of bags to expensive or because of something about Israel, then I'm sorry.

*Jen Sattler * (00:08:22) -  But move along and you can unfollow me because I think that things that we have to share these days are much more important than whether or not you lose a follower or not. So.

*Sarah Milken * (00:08:34) -  And have you always been that kind of person where you're just like, fuck that, or have you come into that as you've gotten older?

*Jen Sattler * (00:08:42) -  I think, you know, so many people are like, I want to start going onto Instagram or onto social media and start like showing my face more. Or if they have, even if they have a jewelry line or whatever, and they're like, it's so hard to do be, you know, on stories, how do you do it? And I think that, like, you just have to start somewhere and you find your voice. And I definitely was not always like this. And like, my husband will always say you, you never, ever said anything like now. Like you have like a opinion about everything. But I think as you get older, you find your voice.

*Jen Sattler * (00:09:15) -  And I think it's important to find your voice and not live in the shadows of everybody else's voice. So I think definitely as I got older, it's, you know, and you have to be confident enough to find your voice and to accept the ramifications of finding your voice from other people. So it is, you know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:09:34) -  And do you? When did you actually start this platform? Like it doesn't have Instagram, dear, year, but.

*Jen Sattler * (00:09:44) -  I don't even remember Instagram a long time ago. And like, I had a blog a long time ago, and then I, I couldn't, like, think of things to write about all the time. And I felt like so much pressure to have to, like, get it out. And you're supposed to have this many blog, you know, entries a week.

*Sarah Milken * (00:10:02) -  And like the SEO, I don't even know what the fuck that I don't.

*Jen Sattler * (00:10:05) -  I know it was too much for me. And then when Instagram started to, you know, in the past, like you couldn't share a link unless you had 10,000 or more.

*Sarah Milken * (00:10:14) -  Right, I remember that.

*Jen Sattler * (00:10:15) -  And then once they stopped that, I was like, why should I write a blog? I could get everything out that I'm literally thinking that I would write in my Instagram story. So then, like, I transitioned into that and I think, like on stories, like on Coffee Talk, I think it started when my son was in my younger son was in high school. Like I would come back from driving him to school and then like along the way, all of the things that like popped into my mind driving him to school or driving home from school. I would come home and hop on to stories and like start to get out of my head. So I think that's when it started and he's going to be a junior. So somewhere along there, I don't know. So I have no sense of time with things like this because I'm I'm the worst. Like I don't time things I don't. like obviously I'm in a bathing suit because I was like, I didn't even realize this was happening today.

*Jen Sattler * (00:11:09) -  I don't prepare for things I don't have, like a script or know what I'm going to talk about and coffee talk in the morning. It just comes out. So you're just.

*Sarah Milken * (00:11:19) -  You're just doing you.

*Jen Sattler * (00:11:21) -  Yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (00:11:21) -  Which I think a lot of us have a hard time doing. And that's why I want to talk about it. Because I feel like if people like us who have sort of figured it out, how to do it for ourselves and how to share information, and, you know, you really are putting yourself kind of in a very vulnerable place. It doesn't mean you have to be crying on Instagram all day long, but you are sharing your opinions that are personal. You're sharing things about your life, things about the world, your perspectives, and you're definitely opening yourself up to Pandora's Box.

*Jen Sattler * (00:11:54) -  Definitely. I mean, you know, it's the kind of thing, like, you rip off a Band-Aid once you start, it just keeps coming out. So now we have a landscaper next door, so I can't.

*Jen Sattler * (00:12:05) -  I don't know if you can. Oh, okay. Good. Yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (00:12:07) -  No, no. Yeah. I mean, my dog is going to bark and some kid's going to order, you know, Postmates egg burritos in a second, I'm sure.

*Jen Sattler * (00:12:15) -  no, I don't know. I think that, once you start, it just keeps coming out. And, I do share a lot of things. Like a few months ago, we lost a good friend of ours, which I don't really want to talk about because I wanted to be respectful for her, but I talk around things sometimes if I don't want to, give full details. But I think that I'm based on DMs because I hate to say followers. I like to use the word community I don't like. I don't like that word followers. but maybe I don't have a ton of followers, but But from the coffee talks, I've such a nice community of women who are so highly engaged and tell me so many, private things about themselves. I have one I call everybody my friends, one friend whose husband is in the hospital right now.

*Jen Sattler * (00:13:12) -  She's like, I don't know why I'm telling you all this, but it's just, I don't know. Somehow it evolved into this community that is just very meaningful and we all get something from each other.

*Sarah Milken * (00:13:24) -  I have the same exact thing I know about people's lives, like it's nobody's business. I know about their husband, their kids, and I've never met these people and they've never met me. And I, like you, respond to everyone who messages me. So it definitely is a huge commitment of time and energy. And do you ever feel like you can't get to it all or do you just pace yourself?

*Jen Sattler * (00:13:54) -  well, to be totally honest, I'm having a tear. Like my day today is ridden with anxiety. Before we even got here, I just said to my kids, I'm going to go sit in the sun. I'm going to like, calm my nerves, my central nervous system down because I am just having. Hold on. There's some noise in the background. Hold on a second.

*Sarah Milken * (00:14:13) -  I can't hear it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:14:15) -  Okay. So. I just have a tremendous amount of anxiety today, and I feel like I can't get to everything I need to get to. I needed to, like, I needed to create two different things of content that were due that I had to follow certain guidelines, which is very hard for me to do. I like to just do things off the cuff. I like it to be more organic and not have to follow scripts and things like that. And then now I'm waiting for approval on things and that I had something, you know, at a friend's house that I couldn't get to today. And then I had something tonight I couldn't I didn't RSVP to. So now I like I just have a and then other private things that obviously happen in your life on a daily basis that create anxiety. So today I'm having a really stressful day and I can't get to any to everything and I won't, and that's fine.

*Sarah Milken * (00:15:03) -  And then I just threw a fucking podcast episode of you, like, and you're in a bikini and you're making it look effortless and easy and sexy and hot, and I fucking love it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:15:14) -  It's so good.

*Jen Sattler * (00:15:16) -  And I feel like I can't get, like, air into my lungs, because when I get anxiety, I feel like that's.

*Sarah Milken * (00:15:20) -  Exactly how I feel. And sometimes I don't really even know what the anxiety is from. And my husband's like, what's wrong with you? And I'm like, I don't know, my chest is tight, I don't know, don't ask me questions.

*Jen Sattler * (00:15:31) -  So if you don't get to it, you don't get to it. And that's fine. I mean, there's always like later tomorrow, whenever. So if I don't get to it, it might stress me out, but I don't get to it. But I do try to get to all of my DMs the best that I can. And I kind of wish that you can. Like there were folders to put everybody into, like, I need to get back to you or whatever, I know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:15:53) -  And then sometimes I screenshot them because I'm not good about links and all that stuff. So I'll screenshot it and be like, okay, I have to get back to her with the visor link later, you know what I mean? And then sometimes I don't, and then they'll DM me again and then I feel bad or I they feel like maybe I forgot, I don't know, you can't be perfect all the time.

*Jen Sattler * (00:16:12) -  You definitely. And that's that's the truth. So and a lot of times things get buried. And I don't know if people realize that you're getting so many DMs that like, sometimes it gets buried and then you can't find I trust the so you know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:16:28) -  So now for.

*Jen Sattler * (00:16:29) -  You try and do your best for.

*Sarah Milken * (00:16:31) -  You with the kind of money making part to this. Are you are you doing like when you do all the links? They're all connected and you make commissions and all of that? Do you feel like all of that is kind of worth it for the amount of time you're putting in?

*Jen Sattler * (00:16:49) -  That's a good question.

*Sarah Milken * (00:16:54) -  I'm asking for myself, too, because I haven't done it yet, and I have people asking me all day long where things are from and this and that. And I'm like, I always try to weigh like the cost benefit for me.

*Jen Sattler * (00:17:06) -  Well, I think that a lot of people think that when someone is sharing a link, I think that what they think that you're making, like the commission is so high and people are just making like thousands and thousands and thousands of dollars, The commissions a lot of times are quite low.

*Sarah Milken * (00:17:23) -  I know, that's why I'm asking you. Like, do you find it worth it, or is it more about just the collaboration and building your name and that kind of thing?

*Jen Sattler * (00:17:33) -  You know what I it first of all, it keeps me busy. It keeps like I'm using my brain at least. And, I don't know, it's it's something that, like, I feel like if you are the kind of person that if you go out to lunch with somebody and someone's like, where is your shirt from that you're not just going to say, oh, thank you and not tell them, like, I'm going to tell you everything, right? My bathing suits from Walmart. So like, I just think that like, I like to share, even if I'm going to make 2% commission on a $10 bathing suit top like I made 20, you know, like I made nothing. But I think it's more I think there's more to it. Like someone said to me this morning, I'm going to a wedding and have to go.

*Jen Sattler * (00:18:13) -  I have to be, they're going to be in the. We're going to be in the grass. Should I wear a heel? So I took a few pictures of shoes and sent it to her, not making anything from it, but like, you're just sharing things and sharing with the community. And it's not always about how much you make what I like to be making more, of course. Do I spend a long time doing it? I do, but but you.

*Sarah Milken * (00:18:37) -  But you love it. And it does it. I mean, that's exactly the boat that I'm in. Like, it does take a lot of time to do my Instagram, do the podcast, get the gas, write the material, all the things. So then for me, I'm like, is it worth doing all the link stuff? I just don't know yet.

*Jen Sattler * (00:18:56) -  Yeah. And and, I was just going to say something. Now I totally forgot. It's definitely. I feel like if you build it, they will come, like, at some point.

*Jen Sattler * (00:19:10) -  Like at some, sometimes you think, why am I doing this? Like, if I sold something for $500, someone bought something for $500 and I made like five, whatever. The commission was like, nothing. I'm like, why am I doing this? But I do think it's if you build it, they will come. And it's very, very hard to grow on all of these platforms. I'm sure on the podcast, like it's very, very hard to grow and unless you keep doing it, you're not going to grow. So consistency is 100% key. and there will be days where you don't see me on at all. I just don't feel it. I don't see anything I want to share with you. Nothing is interesting to me and I'm not going to force it. And I'm not going to be.

*Sarah Milken * (00:19:48) -  Exactly how I feel to. Yeah, that's exactly how.

*Jen Sattler * (00:19:51) -  And I'm not a buyer just to buy and then like return. Like I might like I'll share things most most of the stuff I share, I don't buy, I'm not a billionaire.

*Jen Sattler * (00:20:01) -  I can't buy everything I share. But it's always pieces that like I love or I can see, you know, wearing for this or for that. So that's why I keep doing it. I don't know how will it pan out to something one day. I don't know, I mean.

*Sarah Milken * (00:20:14) -  But what I love about it and it's the same thing for me and what I want other women to get out of this episode. And just my whole podcast and platform is even though you think it's small, it's much bigger than just you. Like you've created a community, whether it's 500 people, 50 people or 5000 people, and it brings you meaning and you have a why. Like you love it. Like if somebody's like on days where I'm so frustrated with my podcast or my Instagram and I'm like, I just want to burn the house down, I ask myself, would I not want to have it tomorrow? And the answer is always no. Right.

*Jen Sattler * (00:20:53) -  That's a very good way to say it. And it's good to have a Y.

*Jen Sattler * (00:20:58) -  I mean, there are so many, you know, people our age. I mean, I'm older than you, but there are so many people our age, like your kids go off to school and, you know, like when your kids are, when your kids are in school, you're on the bleachers with certain friends, like every week for sports. And you see people at school and functions and all of a sudden they're out of school and it's like, your life totally changes. Your friend's friend group changes. There's a lot of changes that happen and it's like you find yourself like, well, what am I doing? What am I like? Do I just want to sit and clean the house all day and then make dinner? I don't really want to do that. I don't like to clean my house all day. So like, I think it's important. Whatever it is in your life, a podcast, you know, link sharing, whatever it is, pottery. I think that it's important for us all to find something that we like to do, and it gives us like a purpose, and it makes, you know, it makes us happy because we're so busy making everybody else happy, like it's important for us to do something for us.

*Sarah Milken * (00:21:57) -  And what did you do in your past life?

*Jen Sattler * (00:22:00) -  I, I didn't like I was just a stay at home mom for years and years.

*Sarah Milken * (00:22:04) -  So you got married young.

*Jen Sattler * (00:22:06) -  You were married young. I worked, you know, I worked in retail on and off, and that was really it. And then once the kids came, I didn't do anything. And I always thought, oh, I want to find something to do, like, like, between 9 and 2 so I can take the kids to school, pick them up from school and go to all the games and all of the concerts and whatever. What kind of job is that? You can't find something. It's hard. 9 to 2.

*Sarah Milken * (00:22:31) -  I have the same thing.

*Jen Sattler * (00:22:34) -  You don't want to sit in an office all day, you know? So, it's hard to find something, so it's nice to create something for yourself, too. So even if you're crafty, even if, like, whatever it is, it's it's important to learn to do something.

*Jen Sattler * (00:22:49) -  Anyone can learn to do anything. You're interested in pottery. Like anything. I keep saying pottery. I don't know why, but you can go on YouTube and learn how to do anything. So like, I don't know, use your brain because it's only going to serve us better. And, you know, for our longevity to use our brains. And I don't want dementia. I know we're.

*Sarah Milken * (00:23:15) -  All in the same boat. And did your husband, when you started, what is he like? What's she doing? Why is she talking to the camera like this? Why is she sharing all our business?

*Jen Sattler * (00:23:25) -  You know what? He doesn't really pay attention. He's just starting to pay attention because some of his friends are like. Did you see what Jen says? Oh my God, you have no idea.

*Sarah Milken * (00:23:34) -  Jeremy's like, I want to play golf. And somebody's like, Instagram husband. He's like, what the fuck? He's like, somebody saw my back injection at the orthopedic surgeon. He's like, people know all this shit about my life.

*Jen Sattler * (00:23:48) -  Bite down the tick.

*Sarah Milken * (00:23:49) -  Bite the way too fast. I'm dropping everything.

*Jen Sattler * (00:23:54) -  when the window wouldn't close on there. And the Range Rover when you were in Utah.

*Sarah Milken * (00:23:58) -  Oh, my God, Jen, I was traumatized by that. And he was at home with Covid.

*Jen Sattler * (00:24:02) -  Oh my God.

*Sarah Milken * (00:24:04) -  And I had, like, a two month bleed and I'd fucking frozen shoulder. I'm honestly I can't but I feel.

*Jen Sattler * (00:24:11) -  Get that they respond to that. They like they're like I have frozen shoulder to I like they want to hear that. Like what you're going through, they're going through and it makes everybody feel better.

*Sarah Milken * (00:24:23) -  Nicole and Oscar P I mean, honestly.

*Jen Sattler * (00:24:27) -  I pay attention, I you.

*Sarah Milken * (00:24:29) -  Do. You're like a you're like a flexible, neurotic, like scholar. I bet you'd like, win the test. You know, you'd you definitely get it. You definitely get an A now do you ever. How do you get. I think a lot of women don't want to do start something or start a podcast or start a platform because they're so afraid of the metrics.

*Sarah Milken * (00:24:53) -  Oh my God, this person has 7 million followers. This person has 400, a million likes, like, how do you get around all of that bullshit?

*Jen Sattler * (00:25:02) -  When I post on Instagram, I hide likes, and it's not because I don't want others to see how many likes something I post have has. I don't want to see it either, because I know it's like it'll get in my head. Like I don't ever weigh myself because I oh my God, I don't either.

*Sarah Milken * (00:25:18) -  I was just going to say that. I was just going to say that I cover my likes 99.9% of the time, and I don't weigh myself.

*Jen Sattler * (00:25:27) -  Because if you are, if you know yourself that you know how numbers will affect you, then it's it's not. You know, you have to know how to like, protect your mental health with it also because there's a lot of, I mean, you're very vulnerable to different things and even just your own metrics you're vulnerable to. And I don't look I don't look to see how many people viewed my stories.

*Jen Sattler * (00:25:47) -  I don't check analytics unless I had to, share analytics to a brand I don't. Look, I know if I lose followers or gain followers, like I'll notice. Like obviously when you gain, you notice all the the gain. But I try not to look.

*Sarah Milken * (00:26:05) -  At all I know because then you're like, oh my God. Well that didn't do well. So now I'm just going to give up.

*Jen Sattler * (00:26:10) -  Yeah. But you over, you end up overthinking. And we all overthink anyway. So, it's I think it it trips you up when you overthink everything. And then at, like, you end up, like, paralyzed. And then, I don't know, it just it it's not, it's not good for my mental health. So I don't I don't do things like that. And that's why I call my name off.

*Sarah Milken * (00:26:33) -  Because yeah, they're like, how many podcast episode downloads do you have? Like every. I'm like, I mean, I have a general sense, but I check it every few months.

*Sarah Milken * (00:26:44) -  I don't even that's not why I'm doing this. I'm not saying that I don't want more or there couldn't be more, but I can't get myself into like, oh, well, if I do this, then this will happen. And maybe that's not good business, I don't know, but like you said, it's.

*Jen Sattler * (00:27:00) -  Yeah, it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:27:01) -  Depends on what your why is for a business. You know, I think it seems like, you know, you're in a fortunate enough situation. I'm in a fortunate enough situation where, we can afford to make certain choices. And I acknowledge that because certain women can't make all the exact same choices, and it matters how much money they make from selling jeans on links or whatever, because that's the main breadwinning component of their home. So everyone's coming at this with different stuff.

*Jen Sattler * (00:27:36) -  Definitely. You know, and I also think that whether you want to start a podcast or sharing links, and I say this to so many people, if I see people on Instagram who are sharing links and it's not linked to some sort of affiliate affiliate and they're sharing links often, I'm like, you have to either get a light to know it or shop my because why are you giving it away for free? Even if for me, that's me.

*Jen Sattler * (00:28:01) -  Yeah. So we're going to talk about it. But even if you're like I always say like eventually my crumbs will be a cake. but like, you also want to get something out of it, but you all, you have to start somewhere and you have to get out of your own way and you have to be consistent. And those are the and for some people, for whatever reason, it hits and they knock it out of the park and the followers come and they become like that new IT person that everyone's following and other people, you know are always, like, chugging along. Like, I feel like I'm always chugging along, but I'm here to chug. So it's but I think you have to start somewhere.

*Sarah Milken * (00:28:38) -  How do you feel like your friends in your life have responded to all of it?

*Jen Sattler * (00:28:50) -  should I be honest?

*Sarah Milken * (00:28:52) -  no, because, I mean, I'll share too. Like, I feel like there's a lot, you know, I have a lot of acquaintances and friends and, like, who? You know, look at all my stuff.

*Sarah Milken * (00:29:01) -  They listen, but they never say anything. They never like a post. And it's really hard for me to say that because I'm not trying to be critical and I'm not judging, but I just feel like in the position that I'm in, when I see other women doing cool shit, I really try to like, support and call it out and all of those things, but I don't feel like it's always 100% reciprocated.

*Jen Sattler * (00:29:27) -  I mean, 100%, exactly 100%. And I have I have a good friend who years ago, she's like, it's not your friends or your family who's going to like your shit. It's just not. And she's like, you have to get past that. And it's so true. I don't know what it is.

*Sarah Milken * (00:29:43) -  I know it's so weird.

*Jen Sattler * (00:29:44) -  Not like people are jealous because there are people in better positions, you know than I am, that there's no reason why a like or a comment or whatever, but I think people also don't realize how important it is for a podcast to subscribe to, like, or to write a comment or, you know, for people's business, for Instagram, for whatever it is for a like a save a share.

*Jen Sattler * (00:30:10) -  It's so important for the creators to get that. And it seems that we get that more from our community that we've created than from our, like, inner circle. Yeah, for whatever the reason, I don't know what the so.

*Sarah Milken * (00:30:25) -  I feel like it's a whole it's a universal thing to be honest. I feel like everyone I talked to publicly or on the side, everyone's saying the same thing, but I occasionally come on, I talk about it or I write it on my, you know, story. I'm like, if you're here and you're viewing this, take a second. And like the post, put a heart. I don't give a shit, but just acknowledge that you're here and that you're watching my stuff. Because either you're watching it because you think I'm a lunatic and there's bringing some entertainment value, or you actually really like it. But in in either event, if you're there, like throw it up.

*Jen Sattler * (00:31:04) -  Well, also, if they're sharing other content from other people, whether whether it's social media or it's it's podcasting, if they're sharing, if they're sharing those things, why not share your stuff? Like who you know there?

*Sarah Milken * (00:31:19) -  Or you see that there.

*Sarah Milken * (00:31:20) -  They they'll say like, oh, I'm never on Instagram. But then you see that they've liked other people's posts and you're like.

*Jen Sattler * (00:31:26) -  Oh my God, that.

*Sarah Milken * (00:31:29) -  And you're like, why the fuck me? Like, why am I the one who's like, kind of holding the left, holding the bag of shit here?

*Jen Sattler * (00:31:35) -  Yeah, but if they post something, you share it like I'm a, you know, I'm an overshare. If someone posts something, I'm going to someone like my friend works for a, for an attorney who does all, like, elder care and stuff. I posted her shit the other day, you know, like, if if it's somebodys company, I'm going to promote somebody. Like, why not? What if it reaches somebody and they get business from it, then, like, that's great. Why wouldn't you want to support your friends, your family, even other accounts that you follow on Instagram if you. And that's why I have like the other day, everyone does this like Friday follow shouldn't be a Friday.

*Jen Sattler * (00:32:12) -  Follow every time you find somebody who you love, whether it's their voice and they're talking about something that you love or their style, share it. Like why not share it? Give give people the shout out and hopefully followers and let them gain something from it. I don't know, I don't know why people don't share things that they love. I mean, you share your fucking iced coffee. Sorry, from Starbucks, but like, you don't, so I don't know, I don't know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:32:40) -  I wish we could just. That's why I feel like we have to all keep having these honest conversations of, like, let's. We don't have to call out names. You know who you are. It's like, jump in the arena. And you know what? When you have something that's in a public way or whatever, I'm going to jump in the arena for you to.

*Jen Sattler * (00:32:58) -  Totally, 100% and definitely.

*Sarah Milken * (00:33:02) -  Okay, so let's talk about midlife marriage for a second. What are what are some things you've kind of learned picked up insights along the way?

*Jen Sattler * (00:33:14) -  Okay, well, we're just married 27 years at the end of May, and that's a long time.

*Sarah Milken * (00:33:19) -  Yeah, that is a long time.

*Jen Sattler * (00:33:22) -  It's not. Look, it's not easy. Not every day. Excuse me. Is like a high day. Not like there are days like you. You annoy each other. There are days when you fight with each other. There are days that, like, you make each other laugh and you love each other. But that's like what marriage is. And I think that it's important that, like, how you talk about it or how I talk about it, there are so many people who are out there portraying that everything is so perfect and their kids are perfect, and their husband is perfect, and this is perfect. It makes me want to vomit because that's nobody has like an easy life like that. And it's not easy. I mean, 27 years is a hard time. I was just talking about J.Lo getting a divorce. I'm like, why are they getting a divorce already? Like, work on it. Why do you just get a divorce after two years? Like, you have to work on shit and it's not it's not easy.

*Jen Sattler * (00:34:12) -  And it's, you know, but, you know, if you're in it to be in it, then you have to work on stuff.

*Sarah Milken * (00:34:18) -  So how old are your kids again?

*Jen Sattler * (00:34:21) -  20 and 23.

*Sarah Milken * (00:34:23) -  Okay, so you're empty nest ish ish.

*Jen Sattler * (00:34:27) -  They're both here right now. So my my younger son is going to be a junior, and my older son is, still lives with us right now, so. Okay. But they're like.

*Sarah Milken * (00:34:40) -  But they're like college out of the house generally speaking.

*Jen Sattler * (00:34:45) -  Definitely.

*Sarah Milken * (00:34:45) -  And how how did that impact your marriage at the beginning.

*Jen Sattler * (00:34:50) -  You know, I thought it was annoying in the beginning because everyone's like oh you're an empty nester now. What are you going to do. Or are you going to go to France or are you going to go here? Or you can. I'm like, it's just like every other day. I still, you know, it's like nothing has changed so much. I mean, you have like, you know, you can walk around the house in your underwear now because not everyone's home.

*Jen Sattler * (00:35:09) -  But, like, I don't know, I don't think it changed. I don't think it changed so much. And I think so many people were like, waiting for this, like, epic, like shift in their life. And I don't know if you can get up and, you know, not have responsibilities and be in France or be Florida or be wherever. That's amazing. But for a lot of people, they have a normal life and they can't do all those things. So I felt like it was they're not here. I honestly miss them. I love my kids. I'm like, I'm the biggest sap for my kids. Like, I was just out here with them, talking to them and I stopped them. I'm like, just so you know, this is my favorite thing. We're not talking about anything. We're talking about Barstool Sports. And this moment is my favorite thing. And every time it happens, I'll repeat myself that it's my favorite thing because it's my favorite thing. I love to be with them, and I also like when they're not in the house.

*Jen Sattler * (00:36:00) -  But there was not some kind of like, epic, like awakening. Like, you know, you're having sex on the couch or something. It was, you know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:36:09) -  I don't I only have one out of the house. And I too, just, like, adore my children. My teen daughter right now, who? I mean, she's a great kid, but I think, as my husband says, good luck to you. You gave birth to yourself, whereas my son, you know, he's turning 20, you know, he's just sort of like, hey, mom, like, I'm flying in tomorrow with, like, three friends, and we're staying in the house and we're, you know, and it's just it's so nice to have them all here. And they're all in, like, a room and the. And we're, like, laughing because, like, the inflatable bed keeps collapsing on one of the kids during the night. And then, you know, it's just it's just so fun.

*Sarah Milken * (00:36:53) -  And they know that I think it's fun because it's like I'm taking pictures of them and posting them. And, Teen Daughter is not as flexible, like she's had a very serious boyfriend for a long time. This is probably the first time I'm even talking about it, because she's just more, you know, she's at that age where she's just more sensitive and I have to respect that. And my son, I think, I think boys and girls are just different. You don't have a daughter. So yeah, it's a little different.

*Jen Sattler * (00:37:19) -  But I feel like one kid is like your Xanax. Like my younger. He's like, so easy. And he has such a, his personality, like nothing really rattles him. He's literally like Xanax. And when I'm stressed, like, I need to be around him. So he brings me down. And then my older son is like your daughter. He does not want to be part of this. If I post him ever, I always ask permission. I'm very respectful of their personalities and, but they're they're totally different.

*Jen Sattler * (00:37:51) -  And, but I love to be around them. I love for people to be here with them. Same thing. Like, my son is having his friends over next week from school and I bring them. Who cares? I bring them.

*Sarah Milken * (00:38:01) -  I'm like, sure. And then the high school friends join in. I'm like, oh, total chaos, cool chaos.

*Jen Sattler * (00:38:08) -  We're lucky to have chaos. I know, I mean, I think I was like.

*Sarah Milken * (00:38:11) -  I'm recording a podcast in the morning, guys, and I hear, like the table going, and I'm like, but I don't say anything. I just like, go to bed, do my thing. But I'm so it's, you know, it's the whole emptiness thing is hard. But I feel like when you feel like you've invested your all into something, then I don't know, it just it makes it all worthwhile.

*Jen Sattler * (00:38:35) -  It's 100%. I mean, we we took a nice trip last this past October, and it's nice to be able to like, the kids are in school that you don't have to, like, think about them.

*Jen Sattler * (00:38:46) -  They're safe in school or working or whatever. So it's nice just to be able to leave and not have those things hanging over your head. But does that happen every month? No. But are you fortunate that you can do those things? For sure. Yeah, but life is I think life is normal.

*Sarah Milken * (00:39:03) -  Yeah, I get it. You're. You're not, like, turning into a stripper. You're not moving to the south of France. No, you're not having some.

*Jen Sattler * (00:39:12) -  He might like the stripper pole idea. I won't, I won't tell him that one. You know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:39:17) -  You have the boobs for it, so it works out for you.

*Jen Sattler * (00:39:21) -  I don't know if I have the pole strength.

*Sarah Milken * (00:39:22) -  Oh, okay. We'll have to work on that. So would you say you have a style?

*Jen Sattler * (00:39:31) -  I think that I do have a style because if I look back, like on a Pinterest board, I always post the same thing, or I've been, like, wearing the same thing for so many years.

*Jen Sattler * (00:39:40) -  Like when you look back at things and some variation of it, like a pair of vintage Levi's or, you know, pairing things high and low. I think that that's always been my style. So and that's what I think I share also with a lot of you guys. Like do you.

*Sarah Milken * (00:39:58) -  Hear the dog barking.

*Jen Sattler * (00:39:59) -  No, no. But I think I think it's hard for a lot of people to know their style. Also, I think everyone's always chasing somebody else's style and then we're buying things and not wearing them. And because we don't really understand, like how things fit us or whatever, you know, we don't hone into our own style, but I think that, I'm always a little undone. Nothing is ever like perfect. Perfect. And, I don't think things out that hard. I just, like, throw something on. I think, like, we all need a good pair of vintage Levi's. You could do anything. You could dress them up, dress them down, and,

*Sarah Milken * (00:40:42) -  Okay, you're taking you're taking me into Levi's land.

*Sarah Milken * (00:40:45) -  So be. And that's on my list for you. Who's Jeannie? Vintage. Jeannie. Is she a real person? Yes.

*Jen Sattler * (00:40:53) -  She's Meg, Meg younger, she's Jean. Jeannie. Vintage. And if you were looking for vintage Levi's, she is the guru to go to. She doesn't source, like a lot of people buy like a lot of Levi's and they have to sort through them. She actually chooses the pieces that she's going to sell in her shop, so she hands selects pieces. she does a really good job measuring things because it's a hard fit to find a vintage Levi. It's very different from a modern fitting jean that we're used to. And she, she's the one you want to go to. And her. I started to just buy things from her, from Etsy. And now, like, we text each other, like, all the time. Like, I adore her.

*Sarah Milken * (00:41:38) -  But buying jeans online, like when you buy a pair of a Goldie jeans or whatever you like, kind of know ballpark ish, they're going to fit maybe ish, you know, 85%.

*Sarah Milken * (00:41:48) -  But I feel like, no.

*Jen Sattler * (00:41:49) -  You need to know your measurements. You have to. She'll teach you how to do it. But look, I live in the boonies. Like, I don't live in an area where I can just go to the mall and, you know, try things on. So everything I buy, I buy online mostly. So, you know, I live 45 minutes, 50 minutes away from like Zara or something. So everything I buy is online. And as far as the Levi's go, I've been wearing them since I'm in high school, so I have a large selection of them that I can go back and measure them to get a good idea. Like what? I would match up with her measurements that she shows. So it's easy for me. I know it's not easy for a lot of people, but she does give you really good guidelines.

*Sarah Milken * (00:42:31) -  And can you can you return things.

*Jen Sattler * (00:42:33) -  You cannot return? She's a very small business. She just she's, you know, running it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:42:38) -  She's a she's like a two year old daughter, three year old daughter. And she's just, Yeah. Single handedly cornering the vintage Levi's market. I mean, so many people Jenna Lyons buys from her. A lot of celebrities buy from her now, and she just.

*Sarah Milken * (00:42:54) -  They probably just buy 30 pairs and toss the ones that don't fit.

*Jen Sattler * (00:42:58) -  Well, they buy a good I mean, they do buy a good amount, but, Yeah. No, you'll if you have like, jeans that like a gold that don't have any stretch in them that are 100% cotton, you can get a good idea of like your measurements because that's a good brand that doesn't have stretch in it, that you would understand your sizing and.

*Sarah Milken * (00:43:17) -  What's like I mean, what is the cost range for vintage Levi's? I mean, some are $800. Are there any.

*Jen Sattler * (00:43:27) -  Well, yeah. But those are like, like the big E or selvedge or things like that. I would say they're probably in like the $240 range.

*Sarah Milken * (00:43:37) -  And how many pairs do you think you have.

*Jen Sattler * (00:43:42) -  Do I can I plead the fifth?

*Sarah Milken * (00:43:44) -  But how do you how do you organize them like I, I don't have that many Levi's, but it's like these Levi's are for heels. These Levi's are like, if you're wearing a shorter top and it's like, I haven't mastered the organizational piece of it yet.

*Jen Sattler * (00:44:01) -  Yeah. No, I think that that's hard. Like, there's a girl who I follow on Instagram who wears vintage 501 all the time, and she looks so good in the vintage 501, and I feel like I'm chasing her fit what it looks like on her and I'm trying to replicate it on me. But her body is different from my body, so how something looks on her is never going to look the same on me. And so that like, I, I have to stop doing that to myself. But like, I know I have a certain pair that is a little bit cropped that I like to wear them with, like a loafer or like a heel, I don't know, I have a lot I really okay, let's say you pair.

*Sarah Milken * (00:44:39) -  Let's say you have 50 pairs of Levi's. How do you do? You always wear the same two?

*Jen Sattler * (00:44:44) -  No, I rotate through.

*Sarah Milken * (00:44:46) -  But do you literally dig through all 50 of them to find the exact one you're looking for? Like, because, well, I started.

*Jen Sattler * (00:44:52) -  Like, taking. I only wear my jeans from now. I've, like, retired like, so many old pairs, that I was chasing a fit that I was buying, like from eBay or wherever that I was like, oh, this is only $30, so I'm just going to buy them. I figure it's better for me to spend the money and get a pair of that. Like, I understand the measurements that are going to fit me, rather than like chasing lower price pairs that I'm going to buy like five of them. And then I should have just spent the money on one good pair. So I have her pairs all together, and now on the inside pocket I mark them all and I write Meg on all of them.

*Sarah Milken * (00:45:28) -  Oh, see what I started doing with the shirt? Be on the label. I'll write like low heel or you know what I mean, because I otherwise it's like, mind numbing.

*Jen Sattler * (00:45:40) -  I think that that's a really good.

*Sarah Milken * (00:45:41) -  And you saw my friend Melissa love a good stripe. Her handles. I love a good stripe.

*Jen Sattler * (00:45:47) -  Yes, I follow her, I chat with her, I love her that. And I'm so happy I.

*Sarah Milken * (00:45:51) -  I know and she's one of my really good friends. And so she'll come over and I'll be like, okay, wait, these jeans are for what, height of a shoe? And then I like right it in the right and on the tag.

*Jen Sattler * (00:46:01) -  That's such a good idea. I've never heard someone doing that. That's a really good idea. I'm going to share that and stealing that from you. Yeah, that's really smart.

*Sarah Milken * (00:46:09) -  I mean, I'm not sure anyone wants a Sharpie. Yeah, I'm not sure anyone else wants Sharpies written in their jeans, but I don't really give a fuck.

*Jen Sattler * (00:46:16) -  I don't care either. If you're writing it on your inside pocket, no one's seeing it. I'm not.

*Sarah Milken * (00:46:19) -  Reselling them. Whatever. And like my daughter and I, we have camp labels in our clothes.

*Jen Sattler * (00:46:25) -  Oh, that's. I should do that with my kids. Because when I fold like shorts, I'm like, who are these?

*Sarah Milken * (00:46:30) -  No, no, I it was life changing. That's like, all my jeans have labels, all my t shirts, because half our shit looks the same. Even our underwear.

*Jen Sattler * (00:46:41) -  Steal your stuff.

*Sarah Milken * (00:46:42) -  I know, and then it's like she likes the low rise hanky panky underwear. I like the mid-rise, but when you're folding them up, they all look the same. And I'm like, this is so annoying.

*Jen Sattler * (00:46:53) -  I've never heard somebody doing that before.

*Sarah Milken * (00:46:55) -  That is part of my OCD. I'm the messiest OCD person on the planet. Like I understand how to create a system. I'm just. If you saw what my office looks like right now, my husband's like.

*Sarah Milken * (00:47:07) -  Somehow you have taken over half of the second floor of the house.

*Jen Sattler * (00:47:12) -  I feel that I totally feel that, like I feel like I'm organized in my brain, but it doesn't always translate to, oh, yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (00:47:18) -  He's like, oh yeah. I go, he's like, why is there a wardrobe rack in the bedroom? I go, because I'm packing for New York. And he goes, but you've been saying that for two weeks. I'm like, well, it's a process. You know, like, I, I buy shit, I return shit, I don't feel like putting in my closet. So I hang it there and he's like, but your office in your closet and the bedroom are now your clothes, right? And he has one little closet that has six things in it, right?

*Jen Sattler * (00:47:45) -  I don't know how people do that, how they have like capsule wardrobes. Oh, there's so many people posting about capsule wardrobes. And I'm like, I can't do that. Like I like to have choices.

*Sarah Milken * (00:47:55) -  Like, yeah, there's no capsule. Like carry on packing. I'm sorry.

*Jen Sattler * (00:47:59) -  Oh, I did carry on to Spain and to like the rest of our trip in October and I nailed it. I was very impressed with myself, I did it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:48:07) -  Do you do that?

*Jen Sattler * (00:48:09) -  I, I was very well thought out and I don't like to wear things. This is a terrible thing to say. I know I get backlash about such silly things, but this is I don't like to wear things twice. I've learned to start wearing my Levi's more than once, but if I wear a pair of jeans, I have to wash them. I don't like to wear something twice. with my Levi's, I'm trying to respect to.

*Sarah Milken * (00:48:30) -  That's what my friend Melissa love. A good stripe is making me do. She's like, you wash your jeans every time. She's like Sarah. Part of it is the hang, like from the day before. And I'm like, so I literally I'm like holding myself back from throwing them in the hamper.

*Jen Sattler * (00:48:46) -  But I chatted with her this morning because I was saying that I can only wear pajamas once and they have to go in the laundry. Mine too. And she she agreed with that too, so she agreed with that part of it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:48:55) -  Yeah, yeah, I don't wear gross pajamas.

*Jen Sattler * (00:48:59) -  So traveling was hard because I'm like, I don't want to be on a plane with something and wear that same thing that I was on a plane in on the plane again. Coming home like that was too much for me to handle. And I try to find a place like, if you're at a hotel, if you can wander halfway through. but I wore I was really good. We were in Spain for a few days, so I wore stuff that I wore there, and then we ended up on a cruise in other areas. So like I repeated, but people didn't. Who we were with didn't see my repeat, my repetition from one place to the other, but I found it like very easy. I don't know why, you know? And for us, it's like for us to pack in a carry on.

*Jen Sattler * (00:49:36) -  If you have like bulkier clothes or a larger size, it's not so easy. When your clothes are a certain size, it's much easier to pack, get stuff in on a carry on.

*Sarah Milken * (00:49:46) -  So I'm a makeup person. I know you're not a major makeup person. I have just my toiletries alone. It's a fucking carry on.

*Jen Sattler * (00:49:56) -  Yeah, see, I don't do that. That's that's. I guess you're right. That's. I brought enough, like, toiletries to get me through. And if I needed to go to, like, a pharmacy, I was going to buy, that's how I went with it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:07) -  So I just feel like. But my husband, we've been together so long, like, even though he gives me such a hard time about it, I think he fundamentally understands it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:17) -  Yeah. Well, and also you have your big, like, medicine case too.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:21) -  I trust me, I know like.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:23) -  That takes up a lot of space.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:24) -  I have so many mental issues that that I'm working through.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:28) -  Jen. It's insane.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:30) -  Well, you know, look we all we all do, and.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:33) -  We all do.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:33) -  Yeah, we all.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:34) -  Have our own.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:36) -  It's hard to, like, deviate from those things that, like, we're so set in our ways about, so. Well, I don't know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:43) -  When I went on that college trip with my daughter and my husband in the spring.

*Jen Sattler * (00:50:48) -  But the weather was terrible. Yeah, we did so many different things.

*Sarah Milken * (00:50:51) -  Oh my God, I it was like I was sweating, I was freezing and it was snowing and raining, and he was like, oh, I packed and carry on. And I'm like, yeah, but you bought a 72 hour wool shirt. I'm sorry. I am not wearing a shirt that says 72 hour wool shirt. And he goes, but if I didn't bring just carry on between your luggage and Marin's luggage, we would have been like managing luggage for 16 days. And I was like, sorry.

*Jen Sattler * (00:51:23) -  Yeah. Well, that's I mean, obviously it depends on where you're going.

*Jen Sattler * (00:51:26) -  Like cold weather destinations. You can't carry on. I mean, things are too bulky.

*Sarah Milken * (00:51:30) -  He did. He brought one sweater.

*Jen Sattler * (00:51:33) -  But they have that. Everything that they wear is like a tech fabric. So it rolls into nothing like you get it into a packing cube and it's like nothing. You know, it might keep them warm, but like all of those.

*Sarah Milken * (00:51:43) -  But he doesn't. I said to him, he has like a capsule wardrobe because I'm like, okay, you have all the same brand button down shirts. You have all the same brand vests like these puffer vests. You have all the same brands, slack shorts, whatever. And then every twice a year he just replaces. Right. So I'm like, how can you even compare that to the pale blue macrame clutch over there? Or the pink neon sweater? Right. Like, how can you even compare those two different ways of dressing and living?

*Jen Sattler * (00:52:15) -  And they mix it up that like it doesn't. First of all, it doesn't matter if they look like they're wearing the same thing twice because everything that they have looks the same.

*Jen Sattler * (00:52:22) -  So, for us it's different, but I don't know.

*Sarah Milken * (00:52:26) -  And it's not just for Instagram. It's for me. Yeah.

*Jen Sattler * (00:52:30) -  No, I'm not like I can't. That's another thing. Like when we went away I didn't pack anything that I'm like, I'm packing for this to be like content. And I tried to like stay away from like I obviously I posted, but I stayed away from a lot of things. I stayed away from like links sharing, like I was on vacation. Like we don't travel like that often, so I wasn't going to use all of that time to be making sure I got like the right shot for content. And I know a lot of people do that, and that's fine, but that's not where my brain was. It wasn't a shopping trip. It wasn't a content trip. It was to enjoy myself. And that was the end of it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:53:07) -  Jen, I don't even know how to record myself in clips. I told you that. Like you need to train me on how to do that because the fucking thing keeps cutting me off.

*Sarah Milken * (00:53:15) -  But I can't keep going. I don't even understand. I like people like, how do you do this? I'm like, I don't even understand what I'm doing. Like, I don't know how to use a tripod tutorial.

*Jen Sattler * (00:53:27) -  Oh, I have my tripod sitting in my grass. I don't.

*Sarah Milken * (00:53:30) -  I don't know how to use a tripod. I hold my phone. I don't know how to like, set my phone up and record while I'm doing something like my skills are so low level. So I'll give you a.

*Jen Sattler * (00:53:45) -  I'm like when I get people to start sharing links, I'm like, I will give you a shot. My tutorial, I'm happy to help you because so many people want to start. Nobody knows how to start with like doing stories or whatever and how to do it. So I'm always happy to give a tutorial.

*Sarah Milken * (00:54:01) -  Oh my god no, I definitely need a tutor tutor tutor. Okay, let's talk. Before we wrap up, let's talk about like, the menopause saga. Where are you in all of that?

*Jen Sattler * (00:54:12) -  Do you want to see my patch? I have right now on my, I don't know where I am because this is going to be TMI.

*Jen Sattler * (00:54:18) -  I have an IUD. I'm not giving it up. I don't want to go through the whole, like, gushing of things.

*Sarah Milken * (00:54:25) -  And which IUD do you have?

*Jen Sattler * (00:54:28) -  The Marina.

*Sarah Milken * (00:54:29) -  And is that the one that is that hormonal or not hormonal?

*Jen Sattler * (00:54:32) -  It's hormonal. Yeah. So my doctor said it's probably helping me a little bit at this point. I also didn't love my last doctor's visit. I didn't love a lot of the answers she gave me. So I came home and I did the research and I took it upon myself to get myself a prescription for the patch. And, you know, I think, I think it's very crazy how we have to advocate for ourselves in such a way and that, within this space, so many doctors are not up to date on things that we're experiencing, and we're just expected to go through it and then like, maybe try hormones after. I'm like, but you expect me to go through all of these symptoms and suffer through these symptoms? And once it's over, you want to give me, like, a hormone? I don't get that.

*Jen Sattler * (00:55:11) -  And I don't appreciate it. So.

*Sarah Milken * (00:55:13) -  So did you just start the patch?

*Jen Sattler * (00:55:15) -  Yeah, about a month ago.

*Sarah Milken * (00:55:17) -  And how's that feeling?

*Jen Sattler * (00:55:19) -  You know what I don't I don't everyone's so many people were like, it's life changing. It's life changing. I don't know if I feel like it's life changing right now. I'm going to stay with it.

*Sarah Milken * (00:55:28) -  Are you on the lowest dose?

*Jen Sattler * (00:55:30) -  The lowest dose? But even if I don't feel anything for what I read that it's going to do for your heart health and your brain health and all of those things, that's. I would go through all of the night sweats in the world, which I don't really suffer from right now, which I don't want to say in the universe. So what are you to come get me? what are my symptoms? Well, I have shoulder pain. It's not frozen shoulder. I can't pinpoint what it is. Maybe it's gotten a little bit better. I have joint pain, especially in my wrist, but I have very weak wrists.

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:02) -  you know, I have mild little things that were nothing, but I also wanted to get ahead of it before something, you know, it's like when you have a tiny bit of a headache. Take your Advil now, 100%.

*Sarah Milken * (00:56:13) -  Why do you think I have all those blood tests? I don't even know what happened to them or for.

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:17) -  So I just wanted to be. I'm nervous for the future. With my bone health. I asked my doctor. He's like, you're too young for bone density tests right now. I'm nervous. I don't want to break a hip.

*Sarah Milken * (00:56:28) -  Wait. You're not. How old are you?

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:30) -  I'm 52.

*Sarah Milken * (00:56:31) -  You're not too young. I've already had two.

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:34) -  My doctor just told me I was too young. Okay, I need to go back. Okay?

*Sarah Milken * (00:56:37) -  We need to revisit that. Law is six years younger than me, and he just had one.

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:42) -  Really? Okay, so I need to revisit, see, and that's why we have this community. So like we learn stuff from each other and there are so many people who have gone through menopause and they're like, I'm through it now.

*Jen Sattler * (00:56:52) -  Why do I need hormones now? I'm like, well, it could still benefit you for your oh my God, your bone and your brain. Like those are the most important things in our body. Like how do you not want to protect that? So, and I can't even tell you all of the DMs that I got that everyone's like, well, you shouldn't be on this because you're on this. You shouldn't be on this because you are on you. How do you know? You you have to go through. You have to have a blood test to know if you're going through menopause. No, you don't, because that's not accurate. And my doctor was like, you have to take your IUD out for me and wait like a month for your hormone levels to get like, normal. And then I'll give you a blood test and then we can put it back in. I was like, hell no, it's staying where it is. I'm not going through that. I'm just going to trudge through and see how I could do it.

*Jen Sattler * (00:57:36) -  Like with the the patch, the estradiol patch, whatever it is. And with my IUD.

*Sarah Milken * (00:57:43) -  And do you take progesterone at night, too?

*Jen Sattler * (00:57:46) -  No, because the progesterone is in the IUD.

*Sarah Milken * (00:57:48) -  Oh. Got it, got it. Okay. Yeah. Because like for me, I'm in a weird situation because I've been on birth control pills since I was 14. I'm not advocating that anyone take birth control pills. It was just my solution at age 14 for my PCOS. And so I've basically been masking all my PCOS symptoms for 400 years. Right? but it worked for me, right?

*Jen Sattler * (00:58:14) -  Exactly. You know, and if something works for you, then who are we to say that you shouldn't be doing it right?

*Sarah Milken * (00:58:19) -  But you know, the doctors are like, okay, well, at some point you have to come off the birth control pill and go on to the patch and blah, blah, blah, and I'm happy to do all of those things. I just feel like for me, I have to find the right timing because I'm a sensitive person and like, my daughter is applying to colleges soon and like, yeah, that's a whole stress container.

*Sarah Milken * (00:58:41) -  So for me to go, oh, let me just say fuck it to my hormones, right. Go and then get brain.

*Jen Sattler * (00:58:47) -  Fog and then not be able to sleep and then blah blah blah like and I'm.

*Sarah Milken * (00:58:50) -  Like trying to do my podcast and she's like talking to me about college applications. Like, I just don't feel like that's a good time.

*Jen Sattler * (00:58:58) -  Definitely.

*Sarah Milken * (00:58:59) -  So for me, I'm like, okay, in my mind, like in six months and I have a minute to breathe, then maybe I can put my body through that like crazy transition. Or maybe it'll be seamless. I don't know, right?

*Jen Sattler * (00:59:12) -  Yeah. No, I definitely had, symptoms when I started it, like, very like, period, like symptoms when, when I first started. It seems to have gone down now, like at the month mark. but I was also one of the things that I was getting, I was getting panic attacks, like in the middle of the night, like I would wake up having a panic attack and like to calm yourself down when that happens is really hard.

*Jen Sattler * (00:59:38) -  And it wasn't like I couldn't sleep, but I would literally wake up with a panic attack. So. And that's very.

*Sarah Milken * (00:59:44) -  Hard to explain to a spouse. I think like, my husband's nice and lovely, but I don't think he intuitively understands a female panic attack, right? You know, because he's scary.

*Jen Sattler * (00:59:59) -  He doesn't. And you get the heart racing. That's like really?

*Sarah Milken * (01:00:03) -  Yeah I know. And then I take a thyroid medication. And then I was having like heart palpitations. So then they lowered my thyroid medication. So that was one of the test is like, okay, I've been on a lower thyroid medication for a couple months. Let's see where I'm at right now. Like everything's kind of like an, like a science experiment.

*Jen Sattler * (01:00:25) -  It's definitely a sinus science experiment. And, you know, it's important that you were talking about all of these things, and it's important that we should not bash each other and discount what people are going through and what's working for them and what didn't work for somebody else, because we're all so different and we feel what's going on in our bodies.

*Jen Sattler * (01:00:44) -  And I think intuitively we kind of know what we, you know, should be asking for, especially like, do you know how many podcasts like how many like doctor Marie-Claire I listened to obviously with you and so many different menopause podcasts, I was taking notes before I went to my doctor. So when I went in there and she was like, no, frozen shoulder has nothing to do with menopause, I was like, get my legs out of these stirrups and get me the hell out of here.

*Sarah Milken * (01:01:08) -  No, I.

*Jen Sattler * (01:01:08) -  Know you are not for me. So, So thank God you're talking about all of these things. And then it leads to everybody else talking about these things, because everybody's so far behind, and there's no reason that we need to feel shitty because, like, the doctors are far behind.

*Sarah Milken * (01:01:24) -  And that's this weird thing, Jen, where I feel like there's certain times where we just start accepting things as our new normal.

*Jen Sattler * (01:01:31) -  Totally. And that's what the doctors say. They're like, well, that's just the way it is.

*Jen Sattler * (01:01:36) -  I'm like, no, no.

*Sarah Milken * (01:01:37) -  No.

*Jen Sattler * (01:01:38) -  No.

*Sarah Milken * (01:01:39) -  And I know some people are anti medication and all of that stuff. And everyone has different reasons. And I get a lot of backlash about taking birth control pills I don't care like yeah this is what's worked for me until now. And I'm aware of it. I know that I'm going to switch off of it. I'm trying to figure out who the best doctor is, what my best plan is, how I'm going to do it. Is it going to be a two week transition, a two month transition? I just feel like everyone needs to do their own thing, but just settling for shit? No chance.

*Jen Sattler * (01:02:14) -  Yeah, I totally agree. And settling for stuff that the doctors tell us or our friends tell us. Like we have to. I don't know, we have to find the right space for ourselves. It's it's a tough it's so tough because, you know, men don't have this issue. Obviously, they have a hangnail. And the doctors, like, you need to do this, this and that.

*Jen Sattler * (01:02:33) -  We have a hangnail and they're like, oh, you're fine. You know, like it's it's really the health care system right now for menopausal women is really it's not fair.

*Sarah Milken * (01:02:44) -  I know it was funny my My husband's complaining about being tired the past few weeks and I'm like, maybe you have menopause.

*Jen Sattler * (01:02:51) -  Yes, well, that is a thing, right? It is their thing. It is a.

*Sarah Milken * (01:02:54) -  Thing.

*Jen Sattler * (01:02:55) -  Yeah, it's totally a thing. It's like they'll never admit to. Oh yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (01:03:00) -  He's like, thanks Sarah. I'm like, okay, I'm just saying I'm like, but we'll find out in your bloodwork that we just did.

*Jen Sattler * (01:03:07) -  Let's see what your testosterone level.

*Sarah Milken * (01:03:09) -  Exactly, exactly. Because last time he did his testosterone, it was normal. So I was like, okay, well, maybe your testosterone is dipping a little bit like my fucking estrogen is dipping.

*Jen Sattler * (01:03:24) -  It's crazy. I don't know, it's it's a crazy time. It's very, it's it's. But I feel like if.

*Sarah Milken * (01:03:31) -  You have a sense of humor about it, if you're smart about it, fight for yourself, advocate for yourself.

*Sarah Milken * (01:03:38) -  Don't give up. You're willing to experiment because doctors aren't. They're not all knowing beings. What works for one patient doesn't necessarily work for another patient.

*Jen Sattler * (01:03:50) -  Definitely. Like people who have, like, these crazy night sweats. Like, I don't know why I keep saying it because I feel like I'm putting it into the universe. I don't want to jinx myself like it must be her. I can't even imagine. Me neither. I get the littlest one and on my it passes really quickly. So I'm like, thank thank goodness. But I can't imagine people who wake up with their bed drenched and what you have to go through sweating.

*Sarah Milken * (01:04:13) -  Recording a podcast in the studio. I'm carrying a fan. I'm all heated up. I have adrenaline pumping that I get, but being the drenched, I haven't had that yet. I'm uncomfortably misty.

*Jen Sattler * (01:04:27) -  Oh, it's a good way to put it.

*Sarah Milken * (01:04:29) -  Do you know what I'm saying? And my husband has this fucking thing where he's like, you don't understand what the air conditioning bill is.

*Sarah Milken * (01:04:37) -  And I'm like, okay, so he has programmed the whole house that the air conditioning runs at night, but during the day it's at like 74. But he's at work and 74 feels really fucking hot to me. And so when I go room to room, I have to turn the air conditioning on. I can do it through my phone. I turn the air conditioning on room by room, like I'm in college. And then, it's it automatically turns off after an hour, right? Oh, that's because yeah, it's smart, but it's annoying because I feel like you.

*Jen Sattler * (01:05:15) -  Don't get in trouble for leaving it on the whole day. Like, too cold in one of the rooms.

*Sarah Milken * (01:05:18) -  Oh, my God, I get in trouble for so many things, and I don't even fucking was sent. He's like, you left the ceiling fans on in the gym. And I'm like, okay, so shoot me. Like what? Like if that's a worse should I do, you know, like give me a break.

*Jen Sattler * (01:05:32) -  But the ceiling fans run all day. Yeah, yeah. No, I the air conditioning. I definitely like at night. I'm like, did you put the air? Like, we sleep with our room really cold at like 64 degrees and even in the winter. I mean, we live in New York. We don't sleep with the heat on in our bedroom at night. So we our room gets down to like 62 degrees. So we love a cold space for like for sleeping. but also like our we have high ceilings and windows so the air conditioning can't fight it. So, you know, that's what he keeps.

*Sarah Milken * (01:06:01) -  That's what he keeps saying. And I go, yeah. Do you want to be those people where someone comes into your house and they're sweating? I'm like, do you remember my grandmother, Ruth? We would walk into her apartment on Ocean Avenue and we'd be sweating immediately. I'm like, we turned into those people. Turn the fucking AC on.

*Jen Sattler * (01:06:19) -  Oh my God, my parents house in Florida, we go to sleep.

*Jen Sattler * (01:06:22) -  It's like 75. They have it at like 75. I'm like, we cannot sleep here. No, it's so damn hot. How do you sleep at 75 degrees?

*Sarah Milken * (01:06:29) -  I don't know, like that's like we went to Hawaii once with his family. Don't even ask. There was only one room that had AC. His parents had that room. And we all were in rooms that had ceiling fans. And I wasn't like, spoiled or anything, and I but I was like, wait, you don't understand. Like, how are we sleeping here? Like with ceiling fans in 100% humidity? It's like being at camp.

*Jen Sattler * (01:06:57) -  And I have to sleep under all the blankets like I'm not. No, no no no.

*Sarah Milken * (01:07:01) -  And I have a weighted blanket and he's like, you're complaining about the temperature, but you're under a weighted blanket. I'm like, yeah, but I need the weighted blanket.

*Jen Sattler * (01:07:11) -  I am 100% with you. It's so many.

*Sarah Milken * (01:07:14) -  Things, Jen. I mean, it's a lot of things.

*Sarah Milken * (01:07:17) -  We're all high maintenance and it's a lot of midlife things. But I'm okay with that high.

*Jen Sattler * (01:07:20) -  Maintenance though, because it's literally physically what we're going through. So it's not so high maintenance because if they were experiencing these things, which they're lucky they don't, it would be they would be mental. They would not be able.

*Sarah Milken * (01:07:33) -  To deal with. And like, we're going to we're going to New York on Saturday and then Miami and talk about heat and humidity. Oh my God, it's so hot. I'm going to be my like nice Blowdry is going to be a wet bun. I've already like mentally committed to that. Yeah.

*Jen Sattler * (01:07:49) -  There's no blow drying. Yeah I think drying I.

*Sarah Milken * (01:07:52) -  Think it's like a wet bun because I don't think there's any blow dry that's staying.

*Jen Sattler * (01:07:58) -  No. And you don't want to be using that hot air. It's too hot.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:03) -  It's so too hot. And are you guys having a heat wave right now or. It's coming. Yeah, but it's.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:08) -  Really it's like, so not hot here.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:09) -  It's so nice. But what? It's not.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:11) -  Are you in the Hamptons? Where are.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:13) -  You? We're in the Hamptons. I don't always say, but we're in the Hamptons. We're on the Western side. Not. But do you live there full time? Yeah. Year round. We've lived here for, just about 25 years all year.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:28) -  One of my really good friends lives there full time, too. We'll have to. I'll have to introduce you guys. Yeah.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:32) -  It's a it's a it's a nice life. It's a different life. It's a quiet life. It's good for the I mean, there's a lot of things. There are things that you definitely miss. You know, we're two hours from the city, so it's not like someone's like, come into the city for this. And I'm like, it's two hours away.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:46) -  Yeah. You know, I get it.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:47) -  So, you know, there are things, but it's really it's nice.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:52) -  It's it's like. I mean, look, it's suburbia.

*Sarah Milken * (01:08:55) -  Yeah. The Hamptons, it's quiet suburbia.

*Jen Sattler * (01:08:58) -  It's quiet suburbia. And not, when you're not in season, it's. You know, the traffic is obviously not like what it is now. Now it's like my son works further east, and, like, there's something that we call the trade parade. So when he goes to work, he's like, stuck. Now he knows what the trade parade is because he's stuck in all this traffic going and coming. So because he's in it, he's in it now. Yeah. I was in the trade parade.

*Sarah Milken * (01:09:21) -  Yeah I know so. Oh my God, isn't it funny when they actually have to like do shit on their own. Like they do it. They do it. I know my son. It's like I just made a mistake the other night. You know, all these things. Not that I even can do a steak, but he's like, oh, and I bought the same cast iron thing that Marin has. My daughter and da da da da.

*Sarah Milken * (01:09:43) -  And it's just funny. And I was like, did you know how to clean it? He goes, mom, it just is what it is. And I'm like, okay, not my problem.

*Jen Sattler * (01:09:50) -  Your kids are such good cooks.

*Sarah Milken * (01:09:52) -  I know, but Jen, I don't even cook. I like there's not one thing I've ever made. And I have these kids who are like. Like my daughter is a cook. My son is just on like a protein thing. So he decided to become like a steak master. But if you asked him to make anything else, he couldn't.

*Jen Sattler * (01:10:10) -  But he I mean, it's great that he learned how to do it, like. And he's doing it well and he's well. It's you two. You learn how to do anything from YouTube.

*Sarah Milken * (01:10:18) -  I know, but I'm just lazy.

*Jen Sattler * (01:10:21) -  No, you have to want to do it. Like everyone's like, how did you learn how to do whatever? I'm like, YouTube. You go on YouTube, you can learn how to do anything.

*Jen Sattler * (01:10:27) -  My if my dryer is broken, I Google what the like code is before I call my husband and be like. I'm always like, the dryer is broken. But I googled the code and it's 92 and that means like so it's not like a I have to like brace him for like what it is, but I always Google it first. So and then you could fix half of the things if you go on YouTube.

*Sarah Milken * (01:10:47) -  So I don't do any of that. I just texted my husband and I'm like, find someone to.

*Jen Sattler * (01:10:51) -  Fix the repair man.

*Sarah Milken * (01:10:52) -  Yeah, I'm like, deal with that shit because I have to deal with like the blood tests and prescriptions and doctors and he doesn't pre-screen shit for me. Yeah, we have totally different departments.

*Jen Sattler * (01:11:06) -  Yeah, I always say it's not my department, but my husband fixes everything, so, like, I have to, like, raise him before he's like, what? What's broken now? you know, the it's always something, as they say. So, yeah.

*Jen Sattler * (01:11:21) -  Yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (01:11:22) -  The body of the washing machine. Your dryer. I know I saw the gardener blowing leaves into the pool the other day, and I was like, is this a fucking joke?

*Jen Sattler * (01:11:34) -  Like, what are you calling my pool guy to come and clean that now? Yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (01:11:39) -  And so then I'm like, and, you know, Jake was having friends come and I'm like, is it? Do we have a net? And we didn't have a pool until this house. We had our prior house for 18 years. There was no pool. So I didn't even think about pool issues. Now there's a pool and I'm like, okay, but who? I don't want a dirty pool, right? Right. So I called the gardener supervisor and I was like, do you think maybe they could, like, close the pool or maybe just not blow the leaves into the pool because it's going to take someone three hours to dig those out?

*Jen Sattler * (01:12:11) -  Oh, my God, I would be so like that. That's a silly.

*Jen Sattler * (01:12:14) -  It's such a silly thing, but it is. I would be so annoyed about something like that that they're like they're cleaning something and making a mess someplace else.

*Sarah Milken * (01:12:21) -  Yeah, like. And then, like, blowing the leaves down the stairs. I'm like. But the leaf piles at the bottom of the stairs now, dude. Right. And I'm standing outside the window watching the leaf pile. Like, if somebody's sweeping this up, or am I supposed to do that? I mean, there's a very high maintenance problems. I totally get that.

*Jen Sattler * (01:12:42) -  Yeah, but you know what? A lot of people have those, you know, big house, small house, a lot of people have these problems. So I know, you know, when you have a house, you have problems. It doesn't matter if you're in a you know, I.

*Sarah Milken * (01:12:53) -  Know now I see why people move to condos.

*Jen Sattler * (01:12:57) -  I know I could never live in, I don't know, I feel like I always say, like, if we ever downsize, like I need to have this much distance, but like, I need, I need distance.

*Jen Sattler * (01:13:05) -  Like I don't want to be like, I need to have a different room to be in. I, I need my I need some space, I know I need I mean, I know you could get a big condo, but I need like I need my I need a wingspan.

*Sarah Milken * (01:13:19) -  I need space for your archives. Is it the attic that you have?

*Jen Sattler * (01:13:24) -  The basement.

*Sarah Milken * (01:13:25) -  Oh, it's a basement.

*Jen Sattler * (01:13:27) -  Do you do basements in California?

*Sarah Milken * (01:13:30) -  Do we typically don't. Yeah. My last house did not. This house does, but this house basement is not like it's not really like a storage ish basement. It's like a like there's a gym. It's like more of a entertaining ish basement, even though I've never entertained in it. Not once I there's, like a wine cellar thing. There's not one bottle of wine in it.

*Jen Sattler * (01:13:55) -  Well, you're only been there for a short time, so you still have plenty of time to turn it into something different.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:00) -  Yeah, even though my husband's like. Yeah, when our second one graduates, let's move.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:05) -  I'm like, okay, we'll deal with that one later.

*Jen Sattler * (01:14:08) -  Goodness.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:09) -  We'll deal with that one later.

*Jen Sattler * (01:14:11) -  Yeah, that's a big one.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:12) -  I know. it's always negotiation station. We'll see. He knows I'm never doing anything. I don't want to do so.

*Jen Sattler * (01:14:19) -  And that's also marriage. You know, everything is in negotiation. Every single thing. So and I feel like we negotiate more but than they do. But, it's it's not all these things are not easy.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:33) -  Do you ever give any clothes away?

*Jen Sattler * (01:14:37) -  I do. mostly it's like, you know, more of the fast fashion stuff that gets given away. But I gave my niece, my sister and Marie's daughter. Fendi bag.

*Sarah Milken * (01:14:48) -  Okay. No, no meaning like. Like Melissa, she is always like. Sarah. You've had those Gucci. slot shoes or whatever. Sneakers are literally like, you've had those for 20 years and you haven't worn them. And I'm like, I know I just can't give them away.

*Jen Sattler * (01:15:04) -  There's just I mean, in my basement, that's where they are.

*Jen Sattler * (01:15:07) -  We have a cedar closet. There's stack of wedges. I'm like, I can't give them away. I don't know what it is, but.

*Sarah Milken * (01:15:13) -  But do you actually wear them?

*Jen Sattler * (01:15:16) -  I might I like to have their, like, insurance. Like if I need something like I know it's there and I can, like, go run to it. And I feel like this year I don't I haven't really for summer things. I'm like trying to use what I have and maybe use it in a different way. So I've been kind of rummaging through and looking for things that I haven't worn, maybe in a while and like repurposing them for this year. see.

*Sarah Milken * (01:15:41) -  What that gets me into the linking problem, Jen? Because when everyone asks why I don't link a lot of my shit's old, like.

*Jen Sattler * (01:15:48) -  It's not new.

*Sarah Milken * (01:15:49) -  Yeah, like today I went before I changed into a bathing suit for you. I was wearing a camisole that's like eight years old. Like.

*Jen Sattler * (01:15:56) -  But you can, you can. I mean, that's my issue also, because I don't wear a lot of the stuff I don't wear is new.

*Jen Sattler * (01:16:02) -  And, but there are so many things that you can show that's something similar to what you're wearing. Right?

*Sarah Milken * (01:16:10) -  But that takes time. So then do you have to search like purple triangle bikini and then you I mean.

*Jen Sattler * (01:16:18) -  You have to decide like if, like if I can't find something within like the first ten minutes, then I'm like over it. I'm like, forget it. So that's like, that's how I try and do it. I don't want to think about it.

*Sarah Milken * (01:16:30) -  Like, sometimes I don't like the thing. That's the similar thing. I want the fucking thing. Yeah.

*Jen Sattler * (01:16:35) -  But the people who are you're sharing it with might like the thing that's a similar thing. So you also have like one thing that like is, something that's hard to learn. You can't shop with other people's wallets. So a lot of times, like if I post something that's like very expensive, everyone's like, oh my God, I love that. But it's so expensive. but there are the other people who don't think that that's expensive.

*Jen Sattler * (01:17:00) -  And then there's some people who love, like the target thing or the H&M thing wouldn't buy that because they're going to, you know, like, so it's that's why it's like I try to keep it all mixed up because there's always something for everyone.

*Sarah Milken * (01:17:14) -  Yeah. And then there's some people who are like, pick your fucking lane, pick your niche. You can accommodate high, low. All the things this person, that person, the midlife woman who wants to use the F word, the midlife woman who doesn't want to use the f bomb, just pick your lane and do it.

*Jen Sattler * (01:17:30) -  But like, that's how we all shop. I mean, you were wearing that Tsar bubble dress the other day that I was like, what is that dress? So you shop that way, whether it's 100% and then so like I.

*Sarah Milken * (01:17:40) -  This is from target, this bathing suit it it's like a Walmart.

*Jen Sattler * (01:17:46) -  Target.

*Sarah Milken * (01:17:47) -  Yeah I mean it's probably five years old. I don't even know. It has like weird patterns.

*Jen Sattler * (01:17:52) -  Last year Walmart held up great.

*Jen Sattler * (01:17:55) -  I think it was like 7.99.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:00) -  But then, you know, then there's these special vintage Levi's. You got to pick and choose where you want to.

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:06) -  Wear your apparently low tan jeans.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:08) -  Oh my God.

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:09) -  I just like, you know, you have to you have to figure it out. But it's all balance.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:14) -  Okay, so before we wrap up, where can people find you?

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:20) -  Jen Sattler on Instagram. Also Jen Sattler on TikTok is two.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:26) -  N's are one.

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:28) -  I'm a single engine.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:29) -  Okay, that's a good one. Okay. Single engine.

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:33) -  Yeah.

*Sarah Milken * (01:18:33) -  And if you had one piece of advice for midlife women who are kind of just trying to figure out what to do next, what is it?

*Jen Sattler * (01:18:42) -  Oh, I think I get this from you so much because, I think whatever it is that you're interested in, like needle pointing or fashion or whatever, just do it. Gardening. Go to Home Depot, buy that first plant, whatever it is, you have to start somewhere and do it.

*Jen Sattler * (01:19:01) -  We all need a little something for ourselves instead of doing for everybody else all day long. Like, even if we spend ten minutes reading a book for ourselves, or gardening or sharing links like do something for you, find it, whatever it is that brings you joy, and take the first step and just fucking do it, do it.

*Sarah Milken * (01:19:22) -  Do it, I love it. You know what the hard part is, is when you're at a dinner party and someone says, what do you do?

*Jen Sattler * (01:19:28) -  Oh, I hate that.

*Sarah Milken * (01:19:29) -  It's the worst. And then you're like, what are you supposed to say? Oh, I started needle pointing. So that's what I've been kind of like working on is like, what's that answer that like.

*Jen Sattler * (01:19:41) -  Why do we do this? I know ourselves, I know, but just to I mean, just to.

*Sarah Milken * (01:19:46) -  Make just so that you feel better. Like, you know, when someone asks you what you do, what do you say?

*Jen Sattler * (01:19:53) -  I honestly, I don't say much because I feel like I feel like an asshole, like, oh, I'm a content creator.

*Jen Sattler * (01:19:58) -  Like, I don't know what to say.

*Sarah Milken * (01:20:00) -  I know, but isn't that annoying?

*Jen Sattler * (01:20:01) -  Uncomfortable? Yeah, it really it I like seize up automatically. It makes me very uncomfortable. And I could be friends with people. People who aren't on Instagram or whatever. They don't even know I do anything all day because, like, I don't like, walk around and talk about it. So, I don't know. It's it's a, it's a weird space to be in and I don't know why we should be proud of ourselves.

*Sarah Milken * (01:20:23) -  So I think we have to come up with I said this on one of my other podcasts, like like a self expansionist, like you're doing some woo woo shit, you're knitting, you're buying a plant, you're going on a vacation, you're figuring out your next workout routine. You're I mean.

*Jen Sattler * (01:20:42) -  Whatever is good for our central nervous system and is bringing us peace and calm, then like we shouldn't diminish whatever that is. Right?

*Sarah Milken * (01:20:50) -  But it was a lot. I think it's a lot easier for stay at home moms, even though that's not great either, right? It was like I'm a mom.

*Sarah Milken * (01:20:58) -  And that was there was some shame in that to kind of like, oh yeah, just a mom like, oh, you're just a housewife, whatever. But now.

*Jen Sattler * (01:21:05) -  Shame you. No matter what, they will find a way to shame you no matter what. So I think that we have to, learn to be confident about whatever it is and just say it and stand firm behind it. And I have to take my own advice with that, too.

*Sarah Milken * (01:21:21) -  I know we all do. We have to own our own shit. Jen, I'm so fucking happy you showed up to this podcast in a bathing suit. that's the first time for everything. So it's poolside with Jen. Even though I was did not move to the pool because I was afraid I wouldn't be able to bring the microphone. But next, I'm.

*Jen Sattler * (01:21:42) -  Glad you didn't hear all.

*Sarah Milken * (01:21:43) -  The stuff I know. Next time, we're going to do it at my pool with the leaves in the pool. Oh, and the pool that I've only been in once because I don't get my hair wet.

*Jen Sattler * (01:21:53) -  Oh well, I'll be in the pool in a few minutes because I'm sweating and I get my hair wet. But I love you. I'm so happy.

*Sarah Milken * (01:22:00) -  I love you too. I'm so happy here. And we'll have to do something again soon. Definitely, definitely. I'll talk to you soon.

*Jen Sattler * (01:22:10) -  Okay? Love you.

*Sarah Milken * (01:22:11) -  Bye. Hey, it's me again. I listen to this episode with fashion influencer midlife remixer Instagram bestie Jen Sattler. So I could summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listen to a long episode, I'm like, oh my God, I love that. But then I can't even fucking remember the specifics. This is why I come back and do a golden nugget. Summary. In this episode, we dig deep with our golden and bedazzled shovels shit shovels in a conversation about all things midlife journey, marriage. Fashion, menopause. Befriending women in midlife and all the things. Golden nugget. Number one. Build it and they will come from being a stay at home mom to becoming an Instagram fashion style and vintage denim icon influencer on Instagram, Jen experimented her way through the ups and downs of influencing linking items on Instagram through Shop My and like to know it, which I have to get better at.

*Sarah Milken * (01:23:20) -  And being the Instagram wonder that she is today, the friendly midlife bestie that you have conversations with on Instagram Stories every morning while she drinks her coffee. I relate to this part so much and it's so true. We aren't going to have a full, thriving and successful business or hobby passion project all in one day. It takes time. Her best advice is to build it and they will come. It will take work. It will take time. It will take energy. But being consistent and showing up for your interests will make it work and the right people will find you. Jen was sharing links to her favorite things because it was fun for her, and it still is, not because she was making a ton of money from it. Although she would like to. And with consistency and hard work, she started seeing her efforts pay off. Like she said, you have to start somewhere and you have to get out of your own way and be consistent. All of your little breadcrumbs will make a cake someday.

*Sarah Milken * (01:24:20) -  Golden nugget number two. Don't overthink it. Jen said that she doesn't pay too much attention when it comes to analytics on Instagram, like likes and numbers, because it's not good for her mental health and it causes her to overthink and overanalyze her content, which takes away from her intentions, her creativity, and just her mojo. Overanalyzing the numbers can cause anxiety. This is why I don't weigh myself or check my podcast downloads frequently after every single episode. I like trying new things, but sometimes they don't perform well. But performing well and having people enjoy them aren't always exactly the same things. As we've talked about before. You can have a smaller number of superfans, rather than like a bazillion trillion of random people who don't even engage with you. Basically, Jen and I talked about how we didn't want the focus on the numbers to discourage us from exploring new avenues, trying new shit, and blocking our creative channels. It's not about the numbers, it's about the novelty. Hide your light count if you have to.

*Sarah Milken * (01:25:29) -  Golden nugget number three menopause hormones, patches, IUDs and self advocating at the doctor's office. When it comes to menopause, Jen is taking it upon herself to get educated on the options for treating her symptoms. She said she didn't love her last doctor's visit because of the limited answers she was given. So she went home, did the research herself, which led her to getting a prescription for the patch and trying out a few other doctors. Sometimes we don't get the answers we want the first time around. Remember peeps, there is no need to suffer if a doctor is giving you answers you don't like, or you just think there's something more, you can take your feet out of those stirrups and look for a second, third, or even fourth opinion. Get educated. There are so many resources out there, and I love that Jen mentioned this in our conversation several times. Golden nugget number four marriage and Empty Nest Jen has been married for 27 years and has two adult children, so she's totally in the midst of midlife being empty nesting.

*Sarah Milken * (01:26:35) -  She's keeping it real always, and she is not preaching that. It's all super easy and fun, which I so fucking appreciate because we need to keep it real. This is the honesty and vulnerability that is part of her brand, and this is why I love her so much. Jen said that there are so many people who are only sharing their highlight reels of their lives, making it seem like everything with their kids and their husbands are perfect and amazing, which Jen says makes her kind of want to vomit. Me too. And I don't blame her. She values authenticity, and it's how she found her voice through her own personal stories. She acknowledges that 27 years is a long time to be married, and that it takes active and intentional steps to work through things that pop up along the way in marriage. This is another reminder that life is hard and good things have to be worked on and worked on through to be good. In terms of empty nest. She isn't often fans vacationing just because she can't be.

*Sarah Milken * (01:27:35) -  She says that she misses her kids so much that her life has generally stayed the same, and she does feel the emptiness of the kids being gone, but everything that she invested in them was so worth it. And she's using her time now for her, doing her and figuring out what makes her happy, and using her creativity for her platform that makes her want to get up every single day in the morning. I mean, we all have bad days to believe me. Sometimes I'm like, oh my God, Instagram. And then other days I'm like, I fucking love this. Okay you guys, the gold is dripping off these nuggets. Grab it, use it. There are three things you can do. First, fucking subscribe to the podcast. Second, share it with some midlife friends who might like midlife shit. And third, write an Apple review. Writing reviews is kind of annoying. It's an extra step, but guess what? It really helps the podcast grow. You think your little review won't matter? It does.

*Sarah Milken * (01:28:33) -  If you went to a show and everyone said my clap doesn't matter, then there would be no clapping. You all matter. DM me. You know, I always respond and of course follow my Instagram at the flexible, neurotic duh. Love you talk to.