Live The Life You Want! Why Not Me?

*Jen Cohen * (00:00:00) - These are the three things. Rejection is always better than regret. Why not me? And what's the worst thing that can happen? If you ask yourself those questions and then answer them, you will go and make that life of yours that much better. Hey peeps, welcome to the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. I'm your host, doctor Sarah Milken. Yeah, you heard that right. I'm a real PhD doctor. Long, long ago, like.

Sarah Milken (00:00:31) - Last fucking year, I was sitting in the midlife funk wondering, was this it for me? That day, I realized I needed to get off my ass and start my midlife remix. I dusted off my PhD, wiped the menopause sweat off my forehead, grabbed my golden shit shovel, and started digging deep to all my midlife bitches. It's not just luck, coffee, and hormones that get you through your midlife remix. It's action steps. Let's do this.

Sarah Milken (00:01:04) - Hey peeps, this is Doctor Sarah Malkin of the Flexible Neurotic Podcast, and I'm the Flexible Neurotic. This is the Midlife Self Reinvention podcast, where we celebrate all the Uggs and fabulosity of midlife, menopause and more.

Sarah Milken (00:01:20) - I have such a motivational and super relatable guest today. She might be my new bestie. She's a bestselling author, fellow podcaster, mother, and midlife her. She's hosted a Ted talk and she has all the deeds that we need to know and actually understand about habits, confidence, purpose, and getting into the fucking arena called life. I mean, does it get better than that? She has a new book out called bigger, better, Bolder Live the Life You Want, not the life You Get. Her podcast platform is called Hustle and Habits, where she interviews guests like Mark Cuban and Chelsea Handler Tony Robbins, and she's a serial entrepreneur who's built and sold a million businesses, and she works out like a crazy person. You can follow her on Instagram. Her name is Jennifer Cohen. I can't wait for you guys to get inside her head. She reminds me that we all have so much agency in our lives, and being bold and confident is a skill that anyone can develop. She's so motivational and speaks from her personal experience and her go to go get it attitude, which makes it even better.

Sarah Milken (00:02:30) - Today we are talking about living life by your purpose, identifying what you want and then actually making at least ten attempts to go get it and why it's better to experience rejection than regret. P.S. I want to let you guys know that we filmed this episode in person at a studio, a set for my podcast, so you can all watch this entire episode on YouTube as well. Trying new things like we always talk about in midlife, a little uncomfortable live filming, lots of lights, no filters. It's hard, but it's new and it's fresh. You got to do it. Scared? Got to do it. Anyway, I want you guys to meet Jennifer Cohen. Here we go. Hi, everyone. This is Doctor Sarah Milken, and this is the Flexible Neurotic Podcast. Today is my second episode in person on film with an amazing guest. She's my new bestie. We've already been sweating together.

*Jen Cohen * (00:03:31) - In the.

Sarah Milken (00:03:31) - Studio. She's a bestselling author, a huge podcaster. Her podcast is called Habits and Hustle.

Sarah Milken (00:03:39) - I mean, who doesn't need new habits and some hustling in midlife? And I'm so excited to talk about her book and getting bold in midlife. This is it. Bigger, better, bolder. Live the life you want, not the life you get. You can say that again. Welcome, Jen Cohen.

*Jen Cohen * (00:04:00) - Thank you.

Sarah Milken (00:04:01) - Excited to have you here.

*Jen Cohen * (00:04:02) - And I'm excited to be here. The first thing I have a question for you. I didn't know you were a doctor. Yes. What kind of doctor are you? Doctor? Oh, wow. No, I didn't know.

Sarah Milken (00:04:12) - I know all the years. All the years of school to be a stay at home mom for 16 years.

*Jen Cohen * (00:04:19) - Well, listen, there's.

Sarah Milken (00:04:20) - No paid off.

*Jen Cohen * (00:04:21) - It paid off. There's no better job than that. I mean, there's no better job. I wish I had the patience, I don't, but, um, I don't.

Sarah Milken (00:04:28) - Think I did either.

*Jen Cohen * (00:04:29) - Really?

Sarah Milken (00:04:30) - Yeah. Because I grew up in a house with two working parents, and my mom was a CEO.

Sarah Milken (00:04:35) - And, you know, work was a very big part of her life and her identity. And I just always thought that that's what I was going to do to. And after I got my PhD and I was teaching in the Graduate School of Education, I had my first kid and I was like, I don't want to go back. I don't want to go back to work. I just want to be here. Yeah. And everyone was like, what? Like, I don't I don't get it. Like, you just went to an Ivy League school and got a PhD, and now you're going to be a stay at home mom. And there was kind of a lot of judgment in that, to be honest.

*Jen Cohen * (00:05:05) - Oh, absolutely. There's judgment on both sides though, right?

Sarah Milken (00:05:08) - I know you can't win.

*Jen Cohen * (00:05:09) - You can't win. So like I get you know, I always feel guilty because I work so much that I, I try not to I try not to miss anything, but that the fact that I'm not picking out my kids every day from school or I'm having, I have helped to do that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:05:24) - I always feel guilty. I always feel that I could be doing more. I should be doing more. I don't think you can win either way. I would tell. I'll tell you this though, when I'm with my kids on the weekends full time, I will tell you it's a harder job than working. Oh my god, brutal because it's like a.

Sarah Milken (00:05:41) - Hamster wheel and it just keeps going and going and going.

*Jen Cohen * (00:05:45) - It's exhausting. It's it's it's exhausting. I prefer.

Sarah Milken (00:05:49) - Sometimes.

*Jen Cohen * (00:05:50) - Well, that to me it's because it's, it's the same things over and over again. And so I look forward to Monday because it's much easier because I'm used to that. I'm used to that, that type of, uh, hectic ness. I'm not I'm bad because you.

Sarah Milken (00:06:06) - Control that schedule. It's not like your son's soccer game. And then this one's this and this one's birthday party.

*Jen Cohen * (00:06:13) - Your work is more.

Sarah Milken (00:06:15) - Your the way you work as an entrepreneur and a writer and a podcaster, it kind of is more in your control.

*Jen Cohen * (00:06:20) - I think it is. And also, if I was being honest, I think people who are now when they become entrepreneurs and when they are working and they're doing the grind, it's also things that you make you feel productive doing right. And so therefore it's about your stop, your your challenge. And when you have to pivot to like, you know, driving from soccer to soccer game to dance class and it's things that aren't as you think as like mind stimulating, as stimulating. It's very hard to do both. Like that's something I like. I really admire the women, especially people like you who have had like we've had like a big they've had a career or a big education, and they still choose to do that and then do it well, because your kids know, like that's where I always feel. I feel like our MC is going to hate me, or Mike is going to feel like I was not there, that they're lacking because I was basically working. And are they going to see it as that? That was more important to me, I hope not.

Sarah Milken (00:07:23) - Look, I always tell people who ask me that because they know that my mom, I come from a house where my mom had a full time career and I say like, look, if you know, my brother and me were very high functioning, well-rounded, normal people, and we had a working mother and my mom never picked us up from school, ever.

*Jen Cohen * (00:07:43) - Oh, okay.

Sarah Milken (00:07:43) - Well, because she had her career, she that's that was in the valley she lived in. We live and lived in Santa Monica and how was she going to get from a full time job in the Valley to come pick us up after school? Right.

*Jen Cohen * (00:07:58) - It's logistics.

Sarah Milken (00:07:59) - Yeah, it's logistics. And it was a different model then. It was sort of like you kind of either worked or you didn't. I think your model is harder because when you're sometimes working from home, and I know right now you're recording your podcast out of a home studio, your kids are there more and they see you and you're not necessarily paying attention to them, but you're doing and you're doing work.

Sarah Milken (00:08:20) - Well, that's what.

*Jen Cohen * (00:08:21) - I was going to say.

Sarah Milken (00:08:21) - I never saw her from 9 to 5, so I exactly.

*Jen Cohen * (00:08:25) - So that to me is a whole other ball of wax. Right. Because if you actually are someone who works in 9 to 5 job and you're not, you're not visible. I think it's easier. It's easier, right? Because your kids don't feel that you're choosing at work over them, number one and number two.

Sarah Milken (00:08:42) - And you're not like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait 100%.

*Jen Cohen * (00:08:45) - And on top of that, I mean, there's a lot of like that, a lot that goes around with that. Like, I want to be around and. Available to work from my home. However, that's for me so I can see what's going on. And I think, I think I fool myself, I lie to myself, yeah, like, oh, I don't know what's going on or like because they see me, then they'll they'll know I'm around. But it's actually it's actually the opposite.

*Jen Cohen * (00:09:08) - But I was going to stay my like my mom worked as well. You know, if I were to be honest with you, how my my mentality and what maybe this is maybe I am lying to myself, but I think a lot of people who work full time or have like a big career, they, they have to lie to themselves and think that, well, you know what? My kids watching me be productive and doing something and working hard and showing up every day, blah, blah, blah, I that's really good for their brains to see. That's really good for them to see. Like, oh, their mom is accomplishing that. Their mom is doing this. So that's how I've kind of look behind it in my brain, you know what I mean?

Sarah Milken (00:09:46) - I can speak to both sides of that because I, I would say 75% of who I am, which is a pretty big statement.

*Jen Cohen * (00:09:53) - Yeah, that's a lot.

Sarah Milken (00:09:54) - Is because my mom was my.

*Jen Cohen * (00:09:57) - Mom. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:09:57) - You know, 100% give her that credit.

Sarah Milken (00:10:01) - She had a big purse. She has a big personality, a big she's a big force. She's well educated. She ran a company.

*Jen Cohen * (00:10:09) - Which company?

Sarah Milken (00:10:09) - Well, she runs the largest non-profit in the country for special needs kids. Oh, wow. And she started it with five kids. And then it turned into this whole crazy thing.

*Jen Cohen * (00:10:19) - Five kids?

Sarah Milken (00:10:20) - Yeah, in 1975. Wow. So, you know, I watched the evolution of this start from so small to become so big, becoming so big and impacting so many families and kids with special needs. Um, but so much of watching that is part of who I am. Yeah, that I, I would never trade that for the world. But having said that, I think I think there's also this idea of living as a, as a woman in seasons. And I didn't think about it at the time. But now looking back at it, like retrospectively, I feel like for me, I did my seasons. It was like I did the kind of nerdy schoolwork check all my benchmark performance things, degrees, all of that.

Sarah Milken (00:11:08) - Did the stay at home mom. I did a lot of like, board work, philanthropic stuff while I was doing it, being a mom. And like, now I'm in my next season and it's the me fucking season. Yeah. You know, I have my son who's at college, my 17 year old daughter who does not want to be micromanaged. She just wants to micromanage me. Right? Yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (00:11:30) - Exactly.

Sarah Milken (00:11:30) - Um, hence all the texts I was getting. Right when.

*Jen Cohen * (00:11:33) - I know.

Sarah Milken (00:11:34) - Yeah, she needs this, this and this, but don't ask her to do anything. Um, so I think that for me, it's been kind of the best of both worlds. But the grass is always greener.

*Jen Cohen * (00:11:47) - The grass is always greener until you see the water bill. Yeah, but I will say too, like having having a work or job or whatever, that's not the only way people can show productivity and show work ethic. Right? Like you were saying, if you are someone who is giving back and charitable and philanthropic and doing things for a purpose and a cause like this is the truth, it for me anyway, like I was on a podcast very recently and they said to me, you know, what do you want for your kids? You know, do you want them just to be happy? And I'm like, no, I don't want that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:12:20) - You saw this.

Sarah Milken (00:12:20) - I saw that because.

*Jen Cohen * (00:12:21) - It's the truth. I don't want my kids just to be happy. Happy doesn't mean anything like, I believe you have to have everybody. You have to have purpose. You have to have be productive. You got to like. You got to, like, stand for something and do something bigger than just like my day to day. You know, I'm just going to live and try to be this arbitrary word of happiness. Happiness comes from being productive and and and showing up and having a goal and achieving that goal. Like that's how you build confidence. That's how you build self-esteem. How do you build it otherwise? And if if a parent just hands it to you or doesn't role model that and show that to you, how are you supposed to learn, especially in a place now in a, in a, in a society and a culture that were so prone to social media? And that's the that's the influence that your children that that's what your children are watching.

*Jen Cohen * (00:13:15) - Tick tock.

Sarah Milken (00:13:15) - Tick tock culture, tick tock.

*Jen Cohen * (00:13:17) - Culture and that and like scary, right. That if that's their role model then we're in a really big we're in a really big crisis. And we are. And so to me, as long as you do something and model behavior that is beyond just, you know, showing up and scrolling on Instagram, you're like winning the game. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:13:36) - And look, I have a lot of friends who are like pickleball masters and mahjong all these things. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm so bad at all of those things. But I'm kind of jealous. I'm like, God, I kind of wish I could do that at that level. I mean, obviously it's time and. It's practice. And, you know, everyone has different priorities at different times, but I just feel like anything that makes you feel like you want to get up in the morning and work for something, whether it's like in your home for yourself. Some people become like meditation masters we're talking about.

*Jen Cohen * (00:14:09) - Yes, exactly.

Sarah Milken (00:14:10) - That's how you and I are probably the worst meditators on the planet, but we like to talk about it. Oh, I.

*Jen Cohen * (00:14:16) - Like yeah, I like I'm very this is what it is. I'm super curious about everything and anything that is wellness based. So whoa, whoa.

Sarah Milken (00:14:24) - But the love.

*Jen Cohen * (00:14:25) - Whoa whoa but woo woo I'm not I'm curious about about it. And you know. And I will dabble to see if it's for me. But the truth is I'm much more hard. Like kind of hard factual. Like what I can actually like. That's how my brain works. And I'm super. I'm curious about all the woowoo things, but I don't partake in them. I've tried. I've attempted what has been your favorite so far? The only thing that I would say that I can say with confidence that I like and will do from time to time, is sound. I love sound that's that. To me. The I think that to me is one of my favorites. But I will be honest with you, I've tried meditation 400 times.

*Jen Cohen * (00:15:10) - Doesn't work for me. Yeah, it doesn't work. Yoga for me is not something that I can. I look at the clock the whole time, even even like spinning. I look at the clock all the time, like my brain is not.

Sarah Milken (00:15:23) - Working to talk about your workout.

*Jen Cohen * (00:15:25) - Honey. Yeah, it's that serious. Well, that's the way that is. My meditation. Working out at a high intensity level is the only thing that calms my nervous system and calms my brain. So the the kind of like the oxymoron is like, I have to stress my body out to such a level that would actually fatigue my brain enough, and your body and my body that I can, like, be a little zen. I mean.

Sarah Milken (00:15:52) - I see your Instagram and like I call it, I mean, I sort of make fun of it and call the dumb unnecessary ways. I love that because, like, I'm not. I'll be honest, I'm not one of those people who's like, oh my God, I worked out and I have fucking endorphins.

Sarah Milken (00:16:06) - I'm like, I fucking hate this. I'm doing this. I have to do this. My bones, my muscles, my fucking brain, all of the things, right? Check check, check. But I don't crave it even.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:18) - Okay, let me ask you a couple questions. Yes. Have you created it to. Are you doing it to the point where it's become now part of your ritual and your daily habits?

Sarah Milken (00:16:27) - Oh, 100%. So you.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:28) - Do it. How often a week will you say that you're actually I exercising?

Sarah Milken (00:16:32) - I do weights twice a week, okay? I do Pilates twice a week, and I do the treadmill with a weighted £10 weighted vest at least four times a week in addition to those things.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:42) - That's amazing. So how long are you on the treadmill for?

Sarah Milken (00:16:45) - 30 to 45 minutes.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:46) - That's amazing. What? Like what? Speed. I go pretty.

Sarah Milken (00:16:49) - Slow. I go like three five with a 10 to 12 incline with the £10 vest.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:54) - That's great though.

*Jen Cohen * (00:16:55) - Yeah. So you're doing it a lot and it's just not your vibe.

Sarah Milken (00:16:58) - It's not my vibe, but I as long as it's if I start going high intensity like a spinning or something like that. Yeah, yeah. My brain's like, get me the fuck out of here. Stop doing this, I hate this. Why are you doing this? Right, so it's like sabotage. It's like telling me not to eat sugar. As soon as you tell me that, it's like, oh, no, absolutely. I can't do.

*Jen Cohen * (00:17:17) - It. You know, it's.

Sarah Milken (00:17:18) - It has to be moderate.

*Jen Cohen * (00:17:19) - Well, that actually moderate is better than high intensity, especially at our age at our place because your adrenals, your cortisol so spikes. Right. And the truth is if to get the benefits, you don't have to be going crazy all the time. Like, yeah, but you're like.

Sarah Milken (00:17:34) - Pushing heavy shit. You're pulling heavy shit.

*Jen Cohen * (00:17:37) - I am because this is like for me, that's what works for me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:17:41) - So everyone says to me all the time, like, what would you say is the best exercise if it was the best thing to do whatever you're actually going to do 100% right? Like if I say run ten miles a day and you hate running, well, if you're not going to do it, then it won't work for you. I know my.

Sarah Milken (00:17:56) - Friend yesterday told me she just started this whole new sort of like lifestyle food thing and how she hates drinking greens and she hates drinking, you know, this and that. And I go, then don't do those things. Yeah, because you're going to bag the whole thing. Absolutely. Because you don't like doing those two things.

*Jen Cohen * (00:18:12) - So this is the problem with the fitness and the health and the wellness industry. There is so much. And every day something else will come. Someone, someone will come up with another gimmick or thing, thing that we should do that will be the panacea for living longer, to being healthier, to looking better. And the truth of the matter is, what works for you does not work for me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:18:36) - And the more we just kind of don't realize that we're not all the same. You know, you do some trial and error, but when you find something that works for you, keep on doing that. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:18:46) - And there's, you know, there's no magic wand and there's.

*Jen Cohen * (00:18:48) - No all of us.

Sarah Milken (00:18:49) - Are looking in some. Secret way to be rescued from having to do the work. The work sucks. It's hard. It's hard to eat well, take supplements, drink bottles and bottles of water, get on the treadmill, do the weights like it's so many things.

*Jen Cohen * (00:19:03) - It is. And then we put we put so much pressure on ourselves to do all of it, where then we end up having this. We end up being very hard on ourselves and beating ourselves up that we're not. We're not basically living up to what we should be doing. Like the truth of the matter is, if you if you do a few of these things, then that should be what you do and then move on with your day.

*Jen Cohen * (00:19:28) - You shouldn't make it like this is the problem. Social media is that if you are somebody who's spending too much time on there, and then you're comparing yourself to what Joe Blow is doing, or Becky or whoever else, it will never be enough. Nothing will ever be enough. And the truth is, genetics plays a big part in this. And the other part of this is even what you're seeing and looking at. It's not actually even working for them. They're either getting paid to do it or they're modifying something they can be doing. Like you never know what goes on behind the scenes. And so like I said, like at the end of the day, it's the basics that work, right? Like, yeah, should we all be more hydrated? Yes. Should you drink more water? Yes. Should you eat clean and maybe shop the perimeter of the grocery store? Probably, right. Don't eat processed food. Move your body. Actually, the best, the best form of exercise is walking.

*Jen Cohen * (00:20:20) - So you walking on that treadmill is the best thing you can.

Sarah Milken (00:20:23) - Yeah. And the only reason I everyone's like, walk outside nature, sunlight. I'm like okay, yeah but I'm not doing that. The reason I'm not doing that is because when I'm walking somewhere in my mind, I'm like, fuck, I have to walk back. I have to walk back. How long is it going to take me to walk back? Right. So in my mind I'm like, okay, I know I'm not getting the benefits of the sunlight in nature, which I can do later, but I'm on my treadmill. I know that I'm going to be done with this and I don't have to walk home.

*Jen Cohen * (00:20:50) - Well.

Sarah Milken (00:20:50) - That's but that's what works for me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:20:53) - So psychologically, that is what works for you. Yes. See, for me, I love the fact that I always have to have a destination to where I where I'm walking, or else I feel like I'm just walking aimlessly. So I will, like, I have this rule that I will not drive anywhere that's two miles or under, no matter what is it? It could be a dinner, it could be a meeting, it could be the gym, it could be it could be anything.

*Jen Cohen * (00:21:18) - So to me, I create these like I create these scenarios and give myself these rules, so to speak, to kind of keep me in line. So because I it's.

Sarah Milken (00:21:29) - Like habit stacking.

*Jen Cohen * (00:21:30) - It is habit stacking because left to my own devices and not creating these like boundaries for myself, I will eat the bonbons. I will not work out, I will, I will basically I will eat everything in sight and I will just be a lazy like, like blob. So I've created these things. So like for an example, I will not let myself leave my bed unless I drink 32oz of water.

Sarah Milken (00:21:57) - Okay, I'm not at 32, I might be at 12.

*Jen Cohen * (00:21:59) - I might be at 26. Actually, let me say the point is I'm not by the morning, by the time, by the time the morning is over and I have not yet started my workout, I have to drink 32oz of water with lemon because that's the greatest detoxifying air. So that's how I get my water in. And then I'll drink water when I'm working out, because I know after that it's done.

*Jen Cohen * (00:22:20) - Do you.

Sarah Milken (00:22:20) - Intermittent.

*Jen Cohen * (00:22:21) - Fasting? No, I think intermittent fasting is I have to be I think it's it's I.

Sarah Milken (00:22:27) - Don't I can't like every time I do it I like hit a wall.

*Jen Cohen * (00:22:30) - First of all, there's been a ton of research talking about the fact that for women and hormones and all the things, it's not the greatest thing I know. There's you can you can talk to ten people and get ten different opinions.

Sarah Milken (00:22:42) - So many.

*Jen Cohen * (00:22:43) - Right. And someone who could be watching this and says, what the hell is she talking about? Like about autophagy and all these other things that all the benefits. But at the end of the day, it is restricted food intake. That's what that's what it really is. And they've done a bunch of studies and a bunch of, uh, a bunch of different, um, tests on people who just, um, restricted their eating. Not in terms of, like, timing, but just ate less. And then also the intermittent, uh, uh, intermittent fasting diet.

*Jen Cohen * (00:23:14) - And the results were almost exactly the same. And so does it work for men? More so than women? I've seen it. I've said I've seen it to happen because men are usually not as hung up with food, with calories, with all the.

Sarah Milken (00:23:31) - Thinking about.

*Jen Cohen * (00:23:32) - All the all the kooky and emotional things that food represents to women. So it actually ends up backfiring a lot for women. And like I said, also with with actual the physiological like the hormones and physiology of it, it's not, it's not, it's not like again, no. Not everything should be painted with the same brush. What works for you doesn't necessarily work for me, or for that guy or for this guy.

Sarah Milken (00:23:57) - I think also certain things like that give people structure, and I think a lot of people are seeking structure or some kind of boundaries around what they're doing. Yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (00:24:08) - So you get my water.

Sarah Milken (00:24:10) - Exactly. You've given yourself those boundaries to adhere to. So intermittent fasting and saying, okay, I'm only going to eat from this hour to this hour gives you like a structure that is kind of self-imposed.

*Jen Cohen * (00:24:22) - So that's what exactly it so, so exactly. So in my opinion, when does intermittent fasting work? It works when you're somebody who needs that structure in your life and when that's the case, then do it for that reason. And no, no, that to be that. But at the end of the day that doesn't work for everybody. And you know, like I, I feel that with women and a lot of the hangups they have with food and with the hormones, it could be a recipe for disaster.

Sarah Milken (00:24:53) - Yeah. Everyone has like a whole different reaction to all of it.

*Jen Cohen * (00:24:57) - And it's it's such a hot topic.

Sarah Milken (00:24:59) - Like so hot I've done I'm sure you've done an 8 million episode.

*Jen Cohen * (00:25:03) - I've done so many podcasts with like the leading expert in intermittent fasting and fasting and and I've and with doctors and with whoever's and they have a ton of science backing why it works how it works. But you know what you know, like science and actual, real, tangible humans is different.

Sarah Milken (00:25:26) - It is different.

*Jen Cohen * (00:25:27) - And psychology is not science. And so if your psychology doesn't match the person who could be okay with eating only at a certain fixed window.

Sarah Milken (00:25:37) - Yeah, I'm not that person. I'm not. You tell me. Like, you're not allowed to eat sugar and you're not eating gluten and you're not allowed to eat dairy. All my red flags go up and.

*Jen Cohen * (00:25:45) - You end up eating like me. The second you say that I'm eating a whole.

Sarah Milken (00:25:48) - Me too.

*Jen Cohen * (00:25:49) - I'll eat double. Me too. Like it's it's it's.

Sarah Milken (00:25:52) - Like I can't eat pasta. Well, I'm going to eat pasta for three nights in a row. If you tell me I'm not allowed to eat pasta.

*Jen Cohen * (00:25:57) - Now, you're going to think about pasta until like, you eat. And that's what happens. Totally. I mean, so that's what the whole thing of deprivation. So for me as well. So like I said, I don't do it. I don't believe in it for myself. I have seen great results for men. Um, like I said, but it's those men are the ones who are not fixated and crazy with food.

*Jen Cohen * (00:26:18) - They never had any eating disorders. They never had any like, situations that were like food based. So that's why also it's been like a a winner for them too.

Sarah Milken (00:26:29) - On this topic of habit stacking and making good choices for yourself. Going back to when you started your whole journey and going to your Ted talk. No. Yes. I want you to tell us about your Ted talk, I watched it.

*Jen Cohen * (00:26:43) - Oh you did?

Sarah Milken (00:26:43) - Yes, of course I do. My fucking homework.

*Jen Cohen * (00:26:46) - You look at you. I love it, doctor.

Sarah Milken (00:26:48) - Yes, and I read your book. Do you want to see all my notes? Yeah, I do all my written. No. Oh, that's so kind. Thank you. Okay, wait. Let me get out the title. The Secret to Anything you want.

*Jen Cohen * (00:26:59) - Oh, that's about my Ted.

Sarah Milken (00:27:01) - Yeah. Yes. Like I couldn't memorize that. Yeah, yeah. I was like, yeah, that's a that's a midlife brain. Yeah. It is eager to getting anything you want.

Sarah Milken (00:27:08) - I want everything in midlife. Tell me how to get it.

*Jen Cohen * (00:27:11) - Well I this is so my entire message I guess or my platform is getting people to chase what they want, not just take what they get. That is that is this is midlife.

Sarah Milken (00:27:24) - Yeah. If we just let everything ride and waited for someone to save us or rescue us, we'd be like this.

*Jen Cohen * (00:27:32) - Yeah. It's true. Well, I feel like you have to learn the skills before midlife.

Sarah Milken (00:27:38) - Yeah, 100% to help you. But a lot of my listeners, including myself, are in midlife, and maybe we haven't done it yet. So you're going to tell us? I want to tell you right now.

*Jen Cohen * (00:27:47) - I'm going to tell you right now. I think that this is what I think a lot of times happens, people think it's too late for them to make a change. It's too late to live the life they want or to get that body they want, or to date or remarry that person that they want. We like kind of count ourselves out before even making that attempt.

*Jen Cohen * (00:28:09) - And that's really sad to me because if you really want to know the truth, most people don't even make one attempt at getting what they want. Almost nobody makes two. So if you're somebody who's even putting yourself out there and making that attempt just on sheer volume, it can happen for you. And I always go with the idea of asking this, asking this question to myself, like, why not me? Can I be brave for 10s and try something? And what is the worst that can happen? Because really, where you are now, if something doesn't work out for you, you're no better worse off than you were yesterday or an hour before. So why self reject? There's so much self rejection out there, why should you reject yourself before even trying? And that is really why I wrote the book and I and I did that talk is because we emphasize and put too much value on the wrong things. You know, like, I believe it's more important to be bold than to be intelligent, because it's the bold people who are impulsive sometimes and try things and, you know, aim or sorry, they shoot and then aim can actually get way further along the success train than those other people who overthink and create charts and tell themselves all the reasons why something won't work, versus telling themselves all the reasons why something will work, does it? It's a switch, right? And it's about like reframing how you talk to yourself and how you think about yourself.

*Jen Cohen * (00:29:50) - I and I've been doing it for so long that like my, my, my brain, my I guess the neuroplasticity in my brain has now shifted where I don't think anything is impossible. I don't think, well, now I'm getting older, so then I can't. I can't be fit or like now I'm old so I won't be attractive anymore. Like you can still be attractive and be older, right? Like that's not a death sentence. You're still a human being that has all the. You're still the same person that you were ten years ago or 20 years ago. You can be a better version of yourself if you actually try.

Sarah Milken (00:30:31) - Were you always like that, though, or were you like the idea in your book where you talk about how boldness is something that you're not born with, but you develop it like a muscle? Yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (00:30:42) - Exactly. Yeah. So that's what I was saying, is that like, people think they're either born bold or they're not. And that's simply not the case. Like, boldness is a skill.

*Jen Cohen * (00:30:50) - If you want to learn Spanish and get really great at Spanish, you're not going to go to one lesson you're going to take. You're going to take a class and you're going to get be rusty at the beginning, but you'll get better, and then you'll get even better, and you'll be one. You'll get 1% better until one day and you'll be like, wow, I can speak Spanish. If you want to get fit at the gym, you don't just go to the gym one time, right? You go. You've got to make things a habit. You go to.

Sarah Milken (00:31:16) - Day after day of the dumb ways.

*Jen Cohen * (00:31:18) - Day after day. And the thing was, I think with when it comes to like physical fitness and and aging, that's really where people start for women. That's where I see people start doubting themselves, right? They're like, well, I'm old now. I can't build muscle or I'm old now. I can't change my career. I'm too old now. I might as well just stay in this shitty relationship, because who's going to want me? Like, we we talk ourselves out of even doing anything that would we actually want to do? We actually we end up lying to ourselves.

*Jen Cohen * (00:31:55) - We say to ourselves, oh no, no, no, this relationship is good. Yeah, this is fine. Like, look at all look at marriage and good enough or. Yeah, or we say it's good enough or we, we say we can't do any better because we've, we've been doing it for so long that, you know, there's nothing better out there for me. So we lie to ourselves and then distract ourselves with activities so we don't focus on the things that really bother us. And we say it's good enough. You know, if we compare yourself to that relationship, well, mine looks better than that one. So I'll stay here like or. Or that job. We play such crazy mind games with ourselves versus like being honest and having an honest conversation with yourself and changing your self-talk to like, I can, I will, I'm going to and then.

Sarah Milken (00:32:48) - Fake it to make it.

*Jen Cohen * (00:32:49) - Fake it til you make it. And it is true. But also. But also if you set a goal for yourself, even the smallest goal, and you accomplish that goal that builds self-confidence.

Sarah Milken (00:33:03) - The small wins. Yeah, it's small wins. That's what I say. I'm like, if you don't want to do the weights and you don't want to do this by the weighted vest, it's not in place of weights, but it's a baby step. So a lot of women are like, oh my God, I got the weighted vest. Thank you. And it's just that small step. And then maybe in two months it'll be the dumb weights.

*Jen Cohen * (00:33:22) - By the way, those dumb weights and the dumb that that dumb vest or that vest is just as good. You're adding resistance to what you're doing. Years ago, I don't know, like, you probably don't know this, but one of my, my first company I ever built was called No Gym Required. Oh, wait, I.

Sarah Milken (00:33:36) - Did read that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:33:37) - You did? Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:33:38) - And it was like an app.

*Jen Cohen * (00:33:40) - Well, no. Well, wait, that was another. Oh, that was, that was hot five, which was a fitness app.

*Jen Cohen * (00:33:44) - Okay. And then Weight Watchers bought that like years ago. But the first thing I ever did and talk about like having no clue what you're doing and how naivete is a strength because what do I know? I knew nothing about, you know, a company or running a company or having a product, but I knew that like to your point, I had these I had these, um, the shoe company that had an interchangeable weighted midsole. And because you had weight in your shoe, it adds a and added 25% more. You burn 25% more calories while wearing them because you added resistance.

Sarah Milken (00:34:20) - That's so funny right?

*Jen Cohen * (00:34:21) - To your walk. And so the weighted vest reminds me so much of those weighted shares because it's the same concept. So if you don't like doing something, you know, make shift and like basically reverse engineer. Okay, I need to like do weight bearing exercises.

Sarah Milken (00:34:38) - Everything in my life I have to reverse engineer or I just can't I just can't do it 100%. I don't know why my husband always lasts.

Sarah Milken (00:34:45) - He's like, oh, you have like he'll go. Last time he goes, oh, maybe we should plan a trip because then you'll clean out your closet. Like that's like.

*Jen Cohen * (00:34:54) - Exactly.

Sarah Milken (00:34:55) - It's like if something has to happen, I'll think of like, 16 other things I have to do first hundred percent.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:01) - There's a name for that. By the.

Sarah Milken (00:35:02) - Way. What is it? I need it, I need a diagnosis. That's that's great.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:06) - Okay. Um. Oh my gosh, I.

Sarah Milken (00:35:09) - Across the nation, it's not.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:10) - Procrastinate. It's actually like it's in my book. Actually, I talk about this. Yes. Because I talk about, like, sometimes what we need to do is create a reason or an environment or a thing to make us do the things that we need to do. So for an example.

Sarah Milken (00:35:27) - Master.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:27) - That I know, me too. But like an example would be like if you are working out, let's say what the working out like, then put like a yoga mat in your in your kitchen.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:36) - So every time you walk by your kitchen you see that yoga mat. And then it's like you don't have an excuse because it's there.

Sarah Milken (00:35:42) - I know I leave my supplements in the middle of the counter, and my husband's OCD is like, what the fuck is your shit all over the counter? I'm like, because if I don't see it, I'm not taking it. Yeah, you won't do. And if I put it in the pretty drawer in the container, it's not making it into my body, right.

*Jen Cohen * (00:35:56) - It's not visible or like to the point of what you're saying about the job or the the vacation or whatever. It's like, that's the catalyst that you need to actually do the thing that you.

Sarah Milken (00:36:06) - Yeah, I'm like, I have 15 minutes to pack for a trip tomorrow, so let me clean out my closet and throw all the bags of clothes downstairs for my husband to gather and put it into the garage. She's like, how is this a good time? I'm like, I don't know, but it's somehow working for my brain right now.

*Jen Cohen * (00:36:21) - See, that's the thing for me. That's how my brain works. Weird. And that's why everyone works differently. Like I would need that catalyst to. I would never like, by the way, but trying to clean out my closet like two and a half years, it's brutal. I keep on procrastinating on a trip. I know I'm going to pack a trip. That's what I would have to do that. And I've done that before where I've gotten like little pieces of my closet fixed because I was going, yeah, and.

Sarah Milken (00:36:43) - You're looking for your jeans and you're like, why do I have 75 pairs of fucking jeans? And I only want the three that I want 100. So I was like, oh, I'll start cleaning out the jeans right now. And then I start trying on all of them. And he's like, Sarah, like, you need to finish.

*Jen Cohen * (00:36:58) - I 100%. And by the way, we don't even need the stuff that we have. Like, that happens to me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:02) - Like, I'm also afraid that if I throw away something or give it away. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:37:06) - Like my husband calls me a hoarder.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:07) - I am a hoarder too. Oh, God.

Sarah Milken (00:37:09) - Me too. Oh my God.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:10) - I'm so nervous that, like, the second that.

Sarah Milken (00:37:12) - I know I gave away all my Fendi baguettes. Those little bags. Oh, yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:16) - And now you want it.

Sarah Milken (00:37:16) - Now I want them.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:18) - I know who'd you give them to.

Sarah Milken (00:37:19) - Probably. Like I don't even know. You could have.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:22) - Given one to me.

Sarah Milken (00:37:23) - I know, but we're like, I know now we're our.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:25) - Friends for sure. I'll get.

Sarah Milken (00:37:26) - One. But that was like years ago when they went back out of style, but now they're back in style. So now I'm like, I have. All these heels that I used to wear to all these board meetings and I'm like, they're just collecting dust, but they're so pretty and I paid so much money for them. Totally. My husband would never have that shit in his closet.

Sarah Milken (00:37:43) - Oh, we don't even share a closet.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:45) - Oh, that's so funny, because.

Sarah Milken (00:37:46) - When we moved, he was like, no fucking way. I'm never doing that again. I did that for like 18 years and we're done, I think.

*Jen Cohen * (00:37:52) - I think women are way worse with that than men, though. More like the same shirt and pants. And they're happy with that. He's like.

Sarah Milken (00:37:58) - I haven't worn this in three months. Giveaway pile. I'm like, I haven't worn this in 13 years.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:04) - Say 30 years. For me, something because I know that things come back in fashion.

Sarah Milken (00:38:08) - I know it's hard and.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:09) - I'm nervous.

Sarah Milken (00:38:10) - I know.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:10) - So then that's I guess.

Sarah Milken (00:38:11) - Thankfully, I haven't gone out of style for him. But you never know, right?

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:15) - It's only been what, 50 years?

Sarah Milken (00:38:16) - Like 50? No, 28. That's all I know. It's a long time. I know that's like a lot of hairstyles, a lot of body shapes and sizes. It's a lot.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:25) - Wow, that is amazing.

Sarah Milken (00:38:27) - And now we're like, we went from like 13 years old to like, Rogaine and retainers at night time. In midlife.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:33) - You start off with retainers for different reasons and now you.

Sarah Milken (00:38:36) - Have retainers and midlife retainers. That's not.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:39) - Sane. Aha!

Sarah Milken (00:38:41) - I know it's crazy.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:42) - And you, by the way, did you never date any like you never broke up with him and then dated someone else for five?

Sarah Milken (00:38:48) - I broke up with him in ninth grade.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:50) - That doesn't count.

Sarah Milken (00:38:52) - Okay, then. I had other another boyfriend through high school.

*Jen Cohen * (00:38:56) - For how many years for?

Sarah Milken (00:38:58) - Okay, then I went my first year of college. That story. Okay. And then my husband and I have been together since the summer before sophomore year of college, and we've never broken up. And it's. It's like 28 years of being together and 22 years of marriage. Maybe.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:18) - Wow.

Sarah Milken (00:39:19) - I know, and.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:19) - When you had that boyfriend in the ninth grade for four years, did he have a girlfriend?

Sarah Milken (00:39:25) - What do you mean? Like when he's married now?

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:28) - No.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:29) - Not. No. Back then.

Sarah Milken (00:39:30) - Oh. Did he.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:31) - Yeah. When you had your boyfriend. Oh no no no.

Sarah Milken (00:39:34) - No, he had a boyfriend. I guess.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:36) - Some people that he.

Sarah Milken (00:39:37) - Had a boyfriend. He had a girlfriend. I'd say junior and senior year, but not the rest. Not. Oh.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:43) - He had like some experience.

Sarah Milken (00:39:44) - But it was funny with him because he. And we didn't go to school together freshman year of college.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:51) - I thought you both.

Sarah Milken (00:39:52) - We both went to Penn, but I got into Penn as a freshman and decided at the last minute not to go because of the boyfriend.

*Jen Cohen * (00:39:58) - Really.

Sarah Milken (00:39:59) - Because he had stayed in LA for me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:40:03) - So what happened?

Sarah Milken (00:40:03) - So I went to UCLA. Okay. And then I ended up breaking up with my boyfriend. And then I reapplied to Penn and I was like, okay, if I get in again, I'll go. If I don't, I'll just stay at UCLA. And I got in again, and my husband and I tell the story very differently, right? He found out I was coming and he made sure that we were a couple before I got there.

*Jen Cohen * (00:40:25) - Really?

Sarah Milken (00:40:26) - Yes. So I went to Penn with a boyfriend.

*Jen Cohen * (00:40:30) - Oh, my God, this is horrible. So you didn't have a boyfriend for, like, for your college years? That was different. Mhm.

Sarah Milken (00:40:38) - I know. Wow.

*Jen Cohen * (00:40:39) - God bless you. See, part of A.D.D.. A lot of times it's like you get bored fast. And, I mean, this is. You obviously don't have A.D.D.. Then I have.

Sarah Milken (00:40:48) - Adult onset add. Different kind of.

*Jen Cohen * (00:40:50) - Add, were you not? You didn't have that.

Sarah Milken (00:40:52) - I'm not an Add. My. Definitely my son is for sure ADHD, but my husband and I know I'm only ADHD when I just. I feel like I'm. I have adult onset ADHD, like I'm 48, almost 49 years old. I don't have to fucking do that ADHD. All right.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:08) - So that's.

Sarah Milken (00:41:09) - Different.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:09) - ADHD yeah, I wouldn't even call that ad. It's more like it's.

Sarah Milken (00:41:13) - Like exactly, exactly. But I have the ability to focus when I need to if I want to.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:19) - Yeah. Then that's what I mean. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (00:41:21) - And my husband is like a hyper focused freak attack. Yeah. He, like, hyper focus is on golf, hyper like his hobbies, like piano, all these crazy things.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:31) - Wow. So he's doing piano now?

Sarah Milken (00:41:33) - Oh, yeah. He's been doing his midlife hobby. Started with piano, and he's like, you're always so annoyed that I'm playing the piano out loud. So I made him buy a piano that was silent. So we have two pianos, a real piano and a silent piano with, like, headsets yet.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:46) - Oh, I.

Sarah Milken (00:41:47) - Swear, because I was like, I can't fucking listen to it. And he's like, most wives would be so happy if their husbands played the piano. And I'm like, I don't. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know what to tell.

*Jen Cohen * (00:41:57) - Liberace's husband, maybe.

Sarah Milken (00:41:59) - And I was like, it's great that it's not porn. Women in cars, that's great. But the piano is annoying, too.

*Jen Cohen * (00:42:05) - Yeah. I mean, I think drums would be worse, actually. Yeah, probably way worse.

Sarah Milken (00:42:10) - But he's he's gotten really good at it. I have to give him credit. And he's not going to have he's not going to be in like an old age home. I'm going to be an old age home because I don't have those kind of hobbies.

*Jen Cohen * (00:42:20) - Well, that's I was going to say, if you really want to age well and keep your brain. Yeah, we're.

Sarah Milken (00:42:24) - Going to have to take up mahjong.

*Jen Cohen * (00:42:26) - Yeah. I mean even or constantly challenge yourself to different things you can't like maybe do mahjong, but like we have new hobbies.

Sarah Milken (00:42:34) - Like this podcast is a challenge for me, believe me. Between the Instagram figuring out how to grow the podcast, I feel like it's like a hobby career challenge all in one.

*Jen Cohen * (00:42:44) - That's great for you. Yeah, that's why it's great that you're doing this though now, right? Because now, like you said, you're having a new season. Yeah, it's the evolution of who you are.

*Jen Cohen * (00:42:53) - I love that, and I think that and I was saying this to you earlier, I love the fact that you have a platform in a place where women who are, who have, who feel the way you feel, um, have like an they have an outlet that they can go to because at the end of the day, none of us want to feel like we're in it alone 100%.

Sarah Milken (00:43:10) - And I think that that's part of the success of my platform is people are like, wait. Me too. Yeah, wait. Oh my God, I'm not the only one with my vagina falling down. Yeah, there's so many things. Oh, man. We're like, oh my God, I'm so bored. What the fuck am I going to do now? Like, my kids are out of the house and college, whatever. And like I have all this time on my hands, it's hard.

*Jen Cohen * (00:43:30) - I think it's really hard. And I think what you provide in that way is that me too. It's not just me.

*Jen Cohen * (00:43:38) - And what I provide is your. It's not too late. You still can do it. Even if you have a vagina that's falling. Yeah, but you call it.

Sarah Milken (00:43:48) - You're the habits expert. I could work on a few of my habits a little bit better, but it's.

*Jen Cohen * (00:43:51) - About building in habit, creating a ritual where it can even optimize wherever you are right now. 2%, 1%. Because it's not it's not a it's not a game of like, can I get from 0 to 60? It's if we do these little small things and we we try and actually do them, we will make we will become so.

Sarah Milken (00:44:16) - Many of us try one time, two times, just like that. And then using your mindset tool that you talk about in the Ted talk and in the right, 10%, 10%, tell us about that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:44:26) - Well, no, the 10% target is that mindset tool that I created when I was very young, and I use it to this day when it comes to you, you bug your.

Sarah Milken (00:44:36) - Kids.

*Jen Cohen * (00:44:37) - Too. Well, my kids know about it because I'll tell you. Because when that talk went viral, um, I was doing so many interviews about it and people were contacted me from anything from like sales training from companies where sales for sales training women and men who were in their, uh, midlife and they didn't know what the next step was. I had college students reaching out to me because what do they take at school? So I was I was actually ending up talking to a lot of colleges and in companies because it's a very simple, uh, it's actually so simple, stupid concept that it's about the 10% target is this concept of making ten attempts at whatever you want most in life. And that could be anything from a relationship to a business situation. It could be anything. And like I said at the beginning of this podcast, is that most of us don't even make that one attempt. Hardly anybody makes two. So if you talk about structure, know that you will have to make ten attempts at whatever that thing is.

*Jen Cohen * (00:45:48) - Either you're going to get to that goal, or some other opportunity will present itself that you never even knew existed by just going down the path. And that has been tried and true for me time and time again since I was 17 years old, and I've used that in every business I've ever started. And any relationship. I never go into something thinking I can't do it because I'm like, have I made my first attempt? Have I made five attempts? If. The answer is no. Then I have work to do. So at the end of the day, I only have myself to blame if things never worked out for me, because that's how I've used that as a reframe to be and have any success. And I'm not saying I'm the most successful thing in the world, but I promise, I promise you and I just for myself, it's even progress.

Sarah Milken (00:46:40) - It's not about being knocked out of the park.

*Jen Cohen * (00:46:42) - It's better off now. Yeah, I.

Sarah Milken (00:46:44) - Walked twice this week. I moved my ass off the couch, whatever it is.

*Jen Cohen * (00:46:48) - And in the day I know my by me using that, that concept and that philosophy, I'm better off now than I would have been if I didn't use that. That philosophy. That's the point.

Sarah Milken (00:46:58) - I think it's also interesting because there's so much manifestation talk and so many experts on how to manifest the life of your dreams and all this stuff. But I think what's interesting about yours is, yes, there's a place for manifestation and writing down your goals and vision boards and all this stuff, but there's also a place where you have to take necessary steps. It's not like there's a magic wand. Oh my God, I wish for this spouse or I wish for this job, and it's just going to come out of nowhere. Yeah, you can have the idea, but you got to do the fucking step.

*Jen Cohen * (00:47:31) - You got to do the work. I mean, at the end of the day, nothing will replace old fashioned hard work. I don't care how many manifestation coaches are out there telling you otherwise.

*Jen Cohen * (00:47:43) - I don't care how many vision boards you put up there and how much you and you envision this and you do that and you script that. The truth of the matter is, anybody I know who's had any success or anything, they've had to do the hard work and they did. I'm going to say the word chase what they wanted. Now you I can get backlash for that. I'll have a lot of people who contact me and they'll be like, you are. You're trying too hard. You're you shouldn't be chasing you. If you sit there. It will. If you're open to the universe, having your back and helping you out, it will come to you. Maybe you're trying too hard. Like I don't resonate with that messaging. I don't want my kids to resonate with that messaging. I don't resonate with that messaging. And quite frankly, if you're somebody who says that to me, you're just not my people. You're not my tribe. I cannot look at you and take you seriously. If you really believe that you're going to be a complete success in your relationship, let's just use the relationship.

*Jen Cohen * (00:48:47) - If you sit back and just hope for a wonderful relationship, you know, I want me and my husband to have this romantic love where we like, do romantic dinners and love each other. We have this and this, but not do anything to make that happen, right? Right. Like you would have to plan it and organize.

Sarah Milken (00:49:04) - It like they say.

*Jen Cohen * (00:49:06) - They say.

Sarah Milken (00:49:08) - They say which some of it makes sense of. Be the person you want your spouse to be. So if you want your spouse to be affectionate, you need to be affectionate. If you want your spouse to cook, sometimes, maybe you cook sometimes. I think that there's a place for the universe in terms of the co-creation part of it, where we all intermingle. Well, you hear what.

*Jen Cohen * (00:49:30) - You just said though, right? Like if you want someone else to, I guess, show up and do what you want them to do, you personally have to take action, show up. You have to participate in that, in that thing.

*Jen Cohen * (00:49:44) - You have to work, do work. You have to take action. You have to like, meet.

Sarah Milken (00:49:48) - Halfway.

*Jen Cohen * (00:49:49) - Right? You can't just sit there and be like, well, I visualize it and look over here. It's on my vision board. So when when's it going to happen?

Sarah Milken (00:49:57) - Yeah, the dumb weights are on my vision.

*Jen Cohen * (00:49:59) - Board, right? The dumb wait, but you're doing the dumb way, honey. And so that's what it is. You don't have to be lifting. You do a £150 deadlift to be doing a a go.

Sarah Milken (00:50:09) - And back to the workout thing again. Like, I have some friends who say, oh my God, I could never work out at home. That's so boring, blah blah blah. I love being like my daughter. She loves Pilates in a class. Yeah, I don't like that. I like Pilates. Quiet with an instructor by myself, no music playing. It's the way I kind of meditate and but again, it's like finding what works for you.

Sarah Milken (00:50:32) - I can tell you whatever I want to tell you, but if it doesn't work for you, it doesn't matter. And that's why, like even on my Instagram, I just show people what's working for me. I'm not saying you should be doing this or you should be doing that, but like the dumb weights are necessary in some capacity, shape or form. So figure out your version of the dumb weights, whatever that is. I don't care if you're pulling, you know, groceries down the street or you're going to the gym.

*Jen Cohen * (00:50:57) - And also even like pulling laundry to church up and down and like, you know, I don't care what it is, but find a form of what that thing is exactly. Because you got to just be open, be open, be open, be.

Sarah Milken (00:51:08) - Open to the universe.

*Jen Cohen * (00:51:10) - Minded, open to the universe. It's true though, right? Like that. That is the point. And I think that like, you know, we are again. Fooling ourselves, or we're making excuses for either being lazy.

*Jen Cohen * (00:51:23) - Not always, but I'm saying that's an excuse for being lazy or for something not working. Whatever. Like if you're not somebody who actually tried, then you can't say, you know, woe is me. Don't be a victim if you haven't even tried.

Sarah Milken (00:51:37) - I do love your phrase about the rejection versus regret.

*Jen Cohen * (00:51:40) - Yeah, it's the 100%. I mean, I live, but I literally live.

Sarah Milken (00:51:44) - Tell us about it.

*Jen Cohen * (00:51:45) - So another one of my, um, one of the things, one of these things I stand by and live by is the is this idea of rejection is always better than regret. Because any time I haven't done something and then I look back, I don't want to ever think to myself, well, what if I tried? What if I did that thing? What if I made that phone call? What if I asked that guy? What if I went out for attempted for that job interview, whatever that thing is? So I would always rather try and know that at least I put myself out there than to think for the whole my rest of my life.

*Jen Cohen * (00:52:24) - Like, what if that what if is torture? So there's a bunch of these, like these life like mat.

Sarah Milken (00:52:34) - Like little.

*Jen Cohen * (00:52:34) - Mantra life mantras or principles? I would say that I really live by rejection is always greater than regret is really up there. Naivety is a strength is a big one too. Because the less you know.

Sarah Milken (00:52:48) - What you don't know can't.

*Jen Cohen * (00:52:49) - Hurt you, right? The more you're more you're apt to do it. We get very jaded as we get older and we think, well, we don't. We've never done it before, so therefore we can't do it. Or, you know, that's not for me because I know when this person tried and this, this and this happened. So naivety, if you haven't done something even better, go for it. Um, mediocrity is a superpower as well. Like, you know, I feel because when I grew up, I didn't find myself to be extraordinary or special in any way. So because of that, I didn't have much to lose trying this or trying that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:53:25) - So I had to also learn to be resourceful because I wasn't the greatest, the most wonderful student. So I had to find people and, and things to help me pass math. Right. Or I had to like, or I didn't find myself to be the prettiest girl. So then I had to, like, work on me, my sense of humor or my personality, whatever that thing is, right?

Sarah Milken (00:53:46) - It's like basic life resilience.

*Jen Cohen * (00:53:48) - It's basically teaching yourself like how to be resourceful and figure shit out better and quicker because you weren't handed everything. And so to me, mediocrity was always like what I try to give people, like in my podcast or in the books or in the TedTalk or whatever, right. And then my speaking or whatever is I really try to make people realize that they should never count themselves out before trying and all these things that they think they can't do, they probably can. There's a big thing about transferable skills, right? Like, you may have not done that exact thing, but I can guarantee you somewhere in your life before that thing you did something that you can transfer.

*Jen Cohen * (00:54:32) - That skill is transferable somewhere else. Maybe you've never sold, you know, condominiums, but you sold a widget when you were in grade nine. So you have like a basic sales skill. My point is, if you really, like, dig deep and figure out like who you are and what you're good at, we all have things that we're better at than others. Lean into your strengths. Lean into the things that you are better at because those things could help you with the other things.

Sarah Milken (00:54:58) - I also like how you talk about leaning into resistance to. And I agree with you, because the things that you have the most resistance to tend to be the things that need to get done. Yeah, or that you really want to get done. And so it's like if everything is like, oh, I can't do that, I can't do the dumb weights or I can't start the podcast or write the book, it probably means you should be doing that in some capacity.

*Jen Cohen * (00:55:21) - Absolutely. And then also give yourself like give yourself these things, like if you are starting something and you're not bold, try doing a little bold move a day.

*Jen Cohen * (00:55:32) - It doesn't have to be extraordinary or huge, but just doing something that again, to show you that you can build on that bold by just little things. Something as like going to the restaurant, right, and asking for like vegetables on the side or sauce on the side, or if something wasn't, if something if your food was cold.

Sarah Milken (00:55:51) - It was being high maintenance. Yeah. Like a.

*Jen Cohen * (00:55:52) - Lot of people.

Sarah Milken (00:55:53) - I know, I have no problem with it. My kids are like, shut up.

*Jen Cohen * (00:55:56) - But but then then that's great. But there's also different types of being bold. You may be really bold in that way, but then be kind of more and more and not feel comfortable.

Sarah Milken (00:56:08) - And like, if you put me in a math class, I'd be like.

*Jen Cohen * (00:56:11) - Right. You would ask her?

Sarah Milken (00:56:12) - I wouldn't ask for anything. I'd be like, okay, now I need to find a tutor.

*Jen Cohen * (00:56:16) - Right? Well that's good. That means you're actually doing resourceful. You're being resourceful.

Sarah Milken (00:56:20) - Solve the problem, and you're.

*Jen Cohen * (00:56:21) - Figuring out a way from you to get from point A to point B, and to get better at something. Again, it's about getting better. It's not about becoming perfect. This is not about living a perfect life, but it's about a living, a fulfilling life that you've actually created and designed for yourself.

Sarah Milken (00:56:37) - Until you have kids applying to college, that's a real.

*Jen Cohen * (00:56:40) - I can't even.

Sarah Milken (00:56:41) - Imagine. It's actually a really interesting journey because you're also you're teaching your kids that just because you're good at this and you're good at that and you're good at this doesn't mean you're always going to get what you want, or you're going to get into that college, or you're going to have that outcome, and you have this plan, and then the plan changes. And is there a better option for you and all of this? So it's been kind of an interesting journey. And now I get to do it again with my second kid. That's the thing, right?

*Jen Cohen * (00:57:07) - Like we all have our own things like whatever.

*Jen Cohen * (00:57:10) - Like that is like for you, it's going to be different than it is for me. But I think that if you have like, you kind of have a foundation and like a toolbox that you can use to help you with whatever that thing is like, I can't even imagine that.

Sarah Milken (00:57:24) - Like, I know, but but I think my kids have been pretty good about it because like you said, I have forced them in the nicest possible way to like, get you done for themselves. So, like, I don't schedule doctor's appointments. I'm not in charge of my kids calendars. They have a phone, they have a credit card, they're approved. The doctors know that there are. So my daughter can pick up the phone. She's 17 and schedule a dermatologist appointment. Right? Why do I have to be the intermediary between her schedule and their schedule? Like she has the skills, right?

*Jen Cohen * (00:57:58) - So you gave her. Yeah. The onus is on her to take responsibility. At what age, though? Did she start doing that?

Sarah Milken (00:58:04) - I'd say like 15, 16.

Sarah Milken (00:58:06) - Like around the time she started driving. Because I'm like, you have a driver's license. Like, I don't need to be part of this. Yeah. 3:00 on Tuesday works.

*Jen Cohen * (00:58:15) - Good for you.

Sarah Milken (00:58:16) - And my son the same like he's a college. And I don't even have to think about that. It's like he has a credit card. He knows how to get his shit done, and he's going to solve it. Right. And it's always going to be within reason. And I think my parents raised my brother and myself like that, too, because my mom was working. She wasn't like kowtowing to every single need of mine.

*Jen Cohen * (00:58:36) - So it made you have to be.

Sarah Milken (00:58:39) - More independent.

*Jen Cohen * (00:58:40) - And resourceful, which, by the way, I think is such a positive life skill to have. It also teaches you how to be grittier, because to me, I think grit is probably the number one life skill that really helps anybody to be unstoppable, right? Like it teaches you. It's like the more gritty you are, the more you are going to get up.

Sarah Milken (00:59:01) - Do hard shit in our lives. Like going back to the idea of my mom, like my mom having worked and me seeing that, yeah, I sort of always felt like, oh, it's kind of hard for me that like, my kids never really saw me, like in my career or working. So I think that because I started this podcast a few years ago, and they've been able to see it grow from where it was to where it is now, and like all the phone calls and the texts and like the tears, like all of it, all of it, and they've seen that whole journey, they're like, oh, wow. Like, my mom is like passionate about something other than us, right? And she's good at stuff and she's working hard and things don't always go her way and she solves it. And like a guest cancels or this changes or that and like, she just has to deal with it. Yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (00:59:50) - See, I agree with that 100%. Like that's what I've at least told myself that.

*Jen Cohen * (00:59:55) - Yeah, I think it's really important for children to see that I really do. And like you said, solving basically being problem being, problem solver, being bold, being bold, getting.

Sarah Milken (01:00:06) - Your shit done. It's not always easy. Yeah.

*Jen Cohen * (01:00:09) - And navigating and figuring things out is is I think a great thing to role model. Yeah. You know in my opinion.

Sarah Milken (01:00:17) - Before we wrap up, I want to ask you if you had we've talked about so many things and we have so many more things to talk about. So I'm so glad we're best friends now because so much talk about, um, I want to ask you, what's your biggest piece of advice for midlife women who are like, what the fuck? Now what am I? Should I be doing next? What does the next sort of runway second half of life look for me look like for me? And how am I going to do this?

*Jen Cohen * (01:00:42) - I would always tell people to pick one thing different or that they didn't, that they have, that they have not done, that has always been in the back of their mind, because we all have those things that are in the back of our mind that we never really tried for or attempted at.

*Jen Cohen * (01:00:59) - Pick one can be super small and make ten attempts at going for it. Ten attempts. And it's not two attempts, it's not four attempts, it's ten. And chances are you'll. Get to that thing before ten.

Sarah Milken (01:01:13) - Be real attempts. It's not just like it.

*Jen Cohen * (01:01:15) - Has to be real attempts. It can't just. It has to be phone calls, emails, like a a an event, like a social event that they otherwise wouldn't do, um, an exercise that they wouldn't do. Like, I think at midlife, what's really great usually is that sometimes you, you start to think about like, like how much life is left, right. And what we haven't done. And if we don't schedule things to happen, what happens is we end up not doing them. So kind of like create like a calendar for yourself and be like by next year at this time, I'm going to be I'm going to be this, I'm going to do that and then like reverse engineer and make it happen. And making these ten attempts like, I believe that we all know those things.

*Jen Cohen * (01:02:03) - Again, it could be like knowing.

Sarah Milken (01:02:05) - Them and doing them right.

*Jen Cohen * (01:02:07) - Taking piano. It could be something as like even like something as a hobby. Like I always wanted to dance and then sign up for a dance class and take ten dance classes. It could be that. It could be like, you know what? I've always wanted to be a therapist or a psychologist. I've seen this before. Someone actually, this is a real one. And they were a marketing executive, and they always loved the human brain, but they never really like now they thought it was too late. Well, they signed up for courses, started taking courses at night. And by the way, guess what? The woman's a therapist now at 53. So nothing is impossible if you actually make attempts at making that thing that you thought was impossible. Possible. Yeah.

Sarah Milken (01:02:52) - The no giving up thing.

*Jen Cohen * (01:02:54) - No excuses. Yeah. It's hard, you know, don't resell don't self reject. These are the three things. Rejection is always better than regret.

*Jen Cohen * (01:03:02) - Why not me. And what's the worst thing that can happen? If you ask yourself those questions and then answer them, you will go and make that life of yours that much better by like tomorrow, the next day, the following week.

Sarah Milken (01:03:17) - And no one's coming to rescue you.

*Jen Cohen * (01:03:19) - Nobody's ever coming to rescue. No one's going to do the hard work for you. No one's going to do the heavy lifting. No. Ever. By the way, I've tried to think that. Oh, I thought I've had like, I've found that the the Messiah to help me with so many different things. And the reality is it never came. It never did. And therefore, what am I going to like, let someone else kind of create my own or choose my destiny? I don't want to put that self-responsibility right. Don't put that in someone else's hands lesson. It's a tough lesson. But you, if you want your life to look a certain way, you need to create it. You need to design it.

*Jen Cohen * (01:03:52) - You need to curate it. It's not. Or what will happen is life will happen to you, not for you.

Sarah Milken (01:03:58) - Oh my God, I love this habits and hustle. Jen Cohen and my.

*Jen Cohen * (01:04:03) - Book.

Sarah Milken (01:04:04) - And her book. Love you. Where can we find you?

*Jen Cohen * (01:04:09) - Uh, you can find me on the Habits and Hustle podcast. You can hide me at my Instagram or my social media. TikTok is the real Jen Cohen. YouTube is Habits and Hustle and you can at my website. Oh, sign up for my free newsletter Jennifer cohen.com. Oh, I'm.

Sarah Milken (01:04:25) - Not on that. I'm going to sign up for that.

*Jen Cohen * (01:04:26) - Sign up for that.

Sarah Milken (01:04:27) - Yay.com.

Speaker 4 (01:04:29) - There you.

Sarah Milken (01:04:29) - Go. All right I want to thank everyone for hanging with us today. Of course we have so much more to cover. We'll have to do that behind the scenes on YouTube. I want to thank Jen Cohen. Thank you guys for being here. And now you know where to find her.

*Jen Cohen * (01:04:43) - Thank you.

Sarah Milken (01:04:44) - Hey peeps, it's me again.

Sarah Milken (01:04:46) - I listen to this episode with Jen Cohen, author of the new book bigger, better, Bolder Live the Life You Want, Not the Life You Get, and host of the Habits and Hustle podcast. So I could summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start using today. I know that when I listen to a long episode, I'm like, oh my God, I fucking love that. But then I can't even fucking remember the specifics. This is why I come back and do a golden nugget. Summary. In this episode, we dig deep with our golden shovels in a conversation about building confidence and going after what you really want. Golden nugget number one fake it til you make it. We've all heard the concept of fake it til you make it, and Jen is a big believer in this too. She says that boldness is a skill. Yep, a skill. And you can develop it like a muscle. It's a habit. It's something that you do every day and little by little it starts coming more naturally to you.

Sarah Milken (01:05:40) - Acquiring boldness is saying, I can, I will, and I'm going to, which is the premise of her new book, bigger, better, bolder. You know, I always talk about the small wins. This can be anything from setting up an appointment, learning a little more about your passions, walking a little extra on your midlife hottie walk, sending that damn email, you name it. All of those small goals and wins add up and give us the confidence to accomplish more. Trust me, I battled the Uggs and that maybe I'll do that. It tomorrow, and I'm not ready for that step every single day. And I have found that leaning into resistance is usually the answer. Ironically, the resistance that we feel is a very brief barrier and a clue that it's actually the thing you should be doing. So lean into the resistance, get to the other side, celebrate the small wins, and build your boldness along the way. Golden nugget number two the what if game. I know you've played it before, I definitely have.

Sarah Milken (01:06:41) - What if I suck? What if I don't know the answer? What if they make fun of me? What if they talk about me in carpool? I mean, it's dangerous. It's a dangerous game because it can really go on forever and leaving you feeling stuck and itchy all over. Thankfully, we have Jen and her amazing midlife mantras to push us through this. Jen's What IFS are more about regrets. Looking back on something and thinking, uggh, what if I had just gone for it? She says that failure is always better than regret. She believes that it's better to try something and put yourself out there than to ponder what if forever? So what's the solution? It's the midlife reframe. So let's play the game in reverse. What if I try this and I love it? What if it all works out for me? What if this becomes my hobby turned career? Look, we all have fears. But don't let them turn into regrets because you're too nervous to take that first step. Golden nugget number three.

Sarah Milken (01:07:39) - It's never too late to get what you want. This ties into the last golden Nugget, and it's so important how you talk about yourself and how you think about yourself is everything. It's the starting point for anything and everything that you want to do or try. Reframing how you talk to yourself about yourself is crucial for getting what you want. Midlife. Jen's biggest midlife reframe is asking the question wait, why not me? There's nothing stopping you from being a better version of yourself if you actually try. And saying you're too old is never an excuse. There is still life to live. The midlife runway is long, so don't talk yourself out of anything that you want to do because you're scared. And don't do things that you don't want to do because you're nervous to say no or you think you can't do any better. Stop lying to yourself. Believe in yourself and remember why not me? Golden nugget number four the 10% target. I love this one because it's realistic and obvious once you hear it. Jen talks about the 10% target.

Sarah Milken (01:08:43) - This is the idea that you must make ten attempts at whatever you want most in life. She said that this can be anything from a relationship to a business, and she shared the shocking truth that hardly anyone makes the first attempt, and even fewer people will go for the second. And like, what about the next eight to get to ten? The reason the ten attempt rule is so important is because even just going down the path of trying something, opportunities will present themselves that you didn't even know existed. It's like sliding doors. So if you think I can't do that, then ask yourself, have I even made one attempt? Five attempts? If the answer is no, then you have work to do. Progress over everything peeps. Okay, you guys know this is one of those episodes that I recorded in person, so you can go to YouTube and watch the whole thing on video. The gold is dripping off these nuggets. Grab it, use it. There are three things you can do. First, subscribe to the fucking podcast.

Sarah Milken (01:09:46) - Don't just listen to a one off second. Share it with some friends who like midlife shit. And third, write an Apple review. Writing reviews is so annoying. It's an extra step, but guess what? It helps the podcast grow. You think your little review won't matter, but it does if you want to do a show and everyone said my clap doesn't matter, then there would be no clapping. You all matter DM you know I always respond and of course follow my Instagram at the flexible, neurotic duh talk soon.