Transcript for Episode 02

00:05

Hi, good peeps. Welcome to the flexible neurotic podcast. You know that friend that you can call to ask anything? That's me. Dr. Sarah Milken. I'm known to my friends as the flexible, neurotic. What is flexible, neurotic even mean? Let me be neurotic by take out my golden shovel to dig deep for all the golden nuggets in the hottest topics from parenting, to education to neuroscience, and maybe even some beauty secrets. So we can all start living more flexibly. Come join us for edgy conversations with rad moms. Innovative thought leaders and well being practitioners helping you find that sweet spot between chaotic and gel. If you're craving that sweet spot, grab your golden shovel with me. You will walk away with nuggets you can start using today.

01:01

Hi, good peeps. This is the next episode of the flexible neurotic podcast. I'm Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic. Today I have a very special friend and guest. She is a mom of three wife, cooking instructor and holistic health counselor. She's a best selling author of two books, kitchen matters and quicker than quick, her most recent book, she really is the queen of the kitchen. Her name is Pamela Salzman. She has taught private cooking classes for over a decade in Los Angeles, then turned it online to reach more people. It also worked out well with COVID restrictions that already have an online pivot. I was looking through photos the other day, Pamela, I saw a photo of you and your husband. You guys were at my graduation for my master's degree at USC. And honestly, you don't even look for it. It's actually insane.

02:00

Oh my gosh. And you obviously still look like a supermodel and have the most pristine skin on the planet and everyone wants to know your secrets. So you guys get your chef hats out and on and yourself recreation golden shit shovels out, because we're going to dig deep with Pamela. So here we go. Hi, Pamela. Well, that was quite a intro. I don't know if I'm really worthy. Oh, God, you so deserve it. And I feel like I've been seeing you in person forever. But I guess is the times Oh my god, that must have been so long ago. Your graduation from USC. Let's not even talk about it. Yeah, because I did look like a child in that picture. So really was a long time ago. I know with your son hat is beautiful. Of course. That's probably one of your reasons why you have pristine skin because you wear a hat, right? Yep. See whenever I had exactly. Oh my gosh. Okay, so my intentions for this episode, as it is with all my episodes of the flexible neurotic is for us to dig deep with our golden shovels, and an edgy conversation about how we can and find our sweet spots between neurotic and chill. In this case, we're going to find the sweet spot and learning how to create more healthy selves with more flexible and healthful cooking tips and mindset. The intention of this episode is to hone in on some specific ideas, hacks, and tools to simplify and speed up the feeding of ourselves and our families. If anyone who is listening knows me, well, they're thinking, oh my god, Sarah Milken and cooking. What a nightmare. I agree. I agree. But I will tell you that in knowing Pamela and digging through her website, and her cookbooks quicker than quick, the most recent one, there really are tricks for Super beginners like myself. She really does make it simple for people like me. So are you ready? Pamela? ready as I'll ever be, Oh, my gosh, I love a challenge. Yeah. And you have the pink reading glasses on to I just love them because I have them too. But I made the font so big to read your bio that I could actually read it. Okay, so we know that childhood and our formative years play a huge part in our self identity formation. Sometimes we incorporate great things other times we run for the hills. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and how that's contributed to who you are as a holistic counselor, a chef, a mom, a wife? Just take us back? Yeah, I totally agree with that. I mean, you can't take it out of you, right, how you grew up and the influence that your parents or whoever was bringing you up had on you. So that really does play a huge part in my food philosophy in who I am, how I'm raising my family. I mean, my family is

05:00

Italian it's like one of those kind of stereotypical big immigrant Italian families that came over, you know, from Italy and I gather like my grandmother came on a boat from Yugoslavia. So I totally get it. You know, that whole tight family thing. And it was a huge part of an Italian family. And it's like, again, I did that thing like every Sunday we all get together, there's 30 cousins, there's eight incent uncles with spouses and my grandparents and like, you know, we just ate that like meal, the pasta, but everything told me right, so my dad grew up on a farm in Italy. So he came to United States, he was 20. And he knew a lot about gardening and growing food and also the importance of like, clean healthy food. And he didn't use any pesticides like we were doing organic gardening and composting before I even heard about it. Right. You guys were ahead of the times clearly high ahead of the times, although that's the way people used to die. No, that's the funny part. Then we got into like processed hell, like how can you make a Twinkie nonfat with no sugar, 8 million chemicals. When I was growing up, I was kind of sad that I wasn't American enough. Like I feel like I wasn't as American as my friends and neighbors because like my dad was so anti the processed food and like, McDonald's was like this kind of once a year thing if my dad was out of town, and my mom was like lettuce.

06:26

It wasn't even that good. My mom used to take us to Carl's Jr. On Saturdays after a while. So soccer games, and it was like the time one, they had redone the inside of the one in Santa Monica. And like they had booths and like a potato bar. And you could put all your different toppings on it. And it was so fancy. Yeah, it was amazing. It was like every Saturday, my Italian grandparents and my mom, we went to Carl's Jr. Well, I didn't even get every Saturday, I got one once a year to McDonald's. I mean, you know, but listen, at the end of the day, like I look back on that. And I'm like, okay, that's why I value cooking from scratch. And that's why I value eating together as a family every night for dinner and why I value organic food because my dad taught me when I was a kid that pesticides, kill bugs and animals and you know, reduce the bacteria on foods. Like I mean, he taught me all that. And I'm like, Oh, yeah, that makes sense. So it couldn't help but be part of who I am when I left for college. And then I was off on my own. I did start to cook on my own and be with friends and go out. And that's when I really started to put two and two together like, oh, like crappy food makes you feel crappy. And there is a difference between like tomatoes from a garden and tomatoes from like a supermarket in the dead of winter. They're not really that good. Right? So it just took me a bit to figure it out. And that's kind of where, you know, I landed in terms of my family. I mean, like, we can talk about the career choice that came later, later later. That was never really part of a plan. Yes, that's a great story. Now, in terms of not being born a cook, you know, some people say, Well, I was born with these skills, or I wasn't born with these skills, like, what are your thoughts on that? Do you think some of its innate in terms of like, creativity, or creative execution, and then some of it is learned? I do. I don't have those innate skills. Just to be clear. I do think that some people come into this world, and it just comes so easily to them. And they like singing or something totally. They're just born with it. And they are lucky that they've been able to tap into that, that they know that those are their innate skills. I was not born with innate cooking skills, for sure. I just happen to really like to eat, I happen to really like good food. And the way that I really got into cooking was like, I think there were just times where I was kind of bored. And I was like, oh, like what can I do with my time with my girlfriends here? Like it was like sixth grade or whatever we like would bake. And it was fun. And I liked to eat. And I liked really yummy food. And so my mom worked, my dad worked. And I don't think my mom had a lot of resources in terms of like cookbooks and magazines. We have so much at our fingertips now. It's just it's easy to find whatever recipe you want. When I was growing up, all we had was gourmet magazine. My mom had like three cookbooks. So she didn't really know anything outside of what her mom taught her. And I didn't really know anything outside of what my mom would make. And then I would just get bored with what she was making. So I would like dig through gourmet magazine. And I'd be like, Can we make that that would be like a really nice change of pace. She's like, Yeah, go ahead. You do it. And you didn't even have Tick Tock giving you the one minute instruction. I have nothing. I know. It's so interesting that you say that because I think I told you on the phone

10:00

My daughter with COVID is like, what am I gonna do with all this extra time when school is done, and I'm not allowed to see anyone. So she sort of became a self taught chef. So every night, she makes this crazy meal. And I'm looking at her, like, how are you doing this? So I think it's sort of one of those things where if you have the interest, and you have the time, and you can sort of break it down into little steps, it is doable, but you have to want to do it. And you also have to have some basic skills. I think, like how to cut an onion properly. She makes fun of me. I just think you need to know how to read. I'm really being honest. Really? Absolutely. I think if you can read, you can cook. The difference between somebody who just learns faster is they just practice more. And like you said, like, you want to do it. So you have like an interest in doing it. But I have been teaching for over 12 years, I have taught people who literally couldn't boil water. And now they're having friends over for dinner. And they're like whipping things up at the last minute. And they're cooking without a recipe, because they want to you know, and it takes some people longer than others, but there is nobody that can't cook. Now, can you talk for a second about like having that courage to put yourself out there even for yourself and for your family? Like, I'm making a meal, it could suck? Like, how do we get over ourselves? I don't do it that way. I don't like talk to my family about food, you know, in terms of like, here's what I'm gonna do. I just don't make a production out of it. I never have I mean, sometimes I'm like, Oh, I'm so excited. Like, this recipe looks really good. You know, it's a new one. What do you guys think? Right. But if you're new to it, like for me, I'm not exactly the greatest cook in the world. And you know, there's always a little bit of that self judgment, like, I've spent 30 minutes doing a quicker than quick meal. And now I'm going to put it on the table. And what if it didn't come out? Right? Or what if I overcook the chicken? Like how do you take that first step and have the courage to make those mistakes? It's like everything else in life, though. That's what I learned early on, because I was a new cook at some point, too. And I did my first holiday at some point, too. And I cooked for my in laws for the first time, once as well. And they have a lot of cooking going on in that house. They do and they're hard to please. Yeah. So I mean, here's the thing, what's the worst thing that can happen? And that's what I learned because I've had so many flops and whatever along the way. And I think that when you fail, you realize that nothing bad really happens, like, oh, maybe it didn't turn out great. And they're not going to get food for sitting and pass out in your kitchen or not. And they're not going to ask for their money back and they're not going to fire you. It's just a meal. And then you will be like, oh, okay, so it was a little salty, or this one just didn't work. Okay, so let's like not make this one again. What was the worst meal you've ever made? Where you were like, shit, I really, there have been a couple that I've made that just like weren't that good. I mean, I don't know that I've never ever made anything that was like, totally inedible. I mean, I've burned things, you know, whatever. There was one meal that I made. And it wasn't long time ago, either. This was like probably six or seven years ago. And I had a couple friends coming over that had just way too many dietary intolerance so hard. It's hard, right? It's so hard. My mom's like, I'm allergic to pepper and garlic, and I'm gluten free. And I'm like, okay, but do you want to bring your own food? Like tell me how to like accommodate that. So that's it. So there was like gluten free and dairy free and then like no eggplant and like no cauliflower and whatever. None of your main vegetables, nothing but the dairy free gluten free. It was kind of hard. But now I know how to deal with that. But what I wanted to do is like, I was like, Oh, I have this menu in mind, which has gluten and dairy. So I'm just going to make all of these like swaps. Like I'm going to do like this dairy free butter and like a dairy free cream and like I just tried to make it with these fake foods, you know, just swap in for the real stuff. And it wasn't that good. Right? It wasn't a perfect swap

14:20

just making recipes or making recipes that didn't contain dairy or gluten just making something totally without those anyway, it just was like kind of like not great and and yeah, you know what, I feel like a lot of pressure now because I think people expect a very like five star meal if they come over. I'm not even that kind of a cook. I'm just like a basic like I'm at home cook that doesn't get stressed out about home cooking, but we'll just come over and bring bagels gluten free bagels, and we'll just toaster right I'm not but my mom is. Yeah. Which is like an epic nightmare for us. To be honest. I swear I like 75% of people

15:00

are gluten free, where every wire gets tested, it has a sensitivity to it. But it's kind of interesting because she sort of regrets it in a weird way. Because now that she's taken it all out, she is having a hard time reintroducing it. That's exactly what happens. And she's struggling a little bit. She's like, I don't have that many food choices. And I'm like, uh, so I mean, obviously, everyone has to do what's right for their bodies and their doctors. But I guess my thing is, unless you have to do something that's an extreme of none of this, or none of that I probably, personally would tend to stay away from that and kind of work more in the arena that you do have sort of, what is it? 8020 9010? Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So that's sort of where I would be because having her in the food issue is definitely hard. I love her. But oh, my God, I don't call you flexible, neurotic for nothing. Yeah, exactly. Sometimes I'm like, Can you just bring your own dinner? And we'll just move on from there. So it's kind of funny. Now going back to something you were talking about a few minutes ago with the accessibility to all these cool new ingredients. I mean, would you say that your sort of healthful revolution started when you could get more than one type of almond flour brand and all of these cool things? Well, not necessarily. I mean, I think that my personal healthy revolution started once I started to have children. And then I'm like, Oh, I have to take care of other people. Like, you know, you all of a sudden just feel such a weighty responsibility for making sure that your kids are healthy. And that's kind of how I felt at the time. Yeah. And then it goes into, wait, do I have to make homemade organic pureed food? or? Yeah, is it okay to do Earth's best from a jar? No, and winging it all that goes in your head and you want to be like, Am I a bad mom? And just for the record? I did use like jarred baby food. Yeah. And my kids are fine. Yeah, there was nothing wrong with it. I want everyone to hear that. Because so we're clear. There's only so many hours in a day. I mean, if you can do it great. But sometimes you have to wing it. Totally. No. I mean, I just felt like that's kind of when I started to learn more about health and wellness. And then it just went from there. And I started volunteering for a nonprofit that taught gardening and nutrition education and public school. So I was teaching like volunteering for that. And that's when I was also getting to like, oh, wait a minute, I didn't realize so many parents don't know what to feed their kids. And then people started asking me for recipes, or like, my friends were asking me to teach them how to cook or take them to the farmers market or redo their pantries. And that's really how the business started. And in terms of like, ingredients, well, I mean, the last 12 years, there's been an explosion crazy, crazy. And part of it is just, you know, we have access to so many things online now as well, where before it was like, if you couldn't find it at your local natural food store, you weren't going to get it? Because you didn't know where else to find it. I mean, now Yeah, like when I first started teaching, there was one random almond flour, and you had to pay $5 in shipping to get it

18:29

directly from them. And they take 19 weeks to get it sir. And it was only in five pound bags. I mean, now it's like you can get almond flour at like 711 totally get it anywhere.

18:42

And I've also heard you say that it's not just about like going to the sort of higher end organic, expensive markets, but like you get stuff at Costco, tell us about a few things. You get a Costco. Are you kidding? Like I get this a lot where and listen, I know that there are food deserts out there. And I don't want to sugarcoat that at all. And I know a lot of people don't have access to what I do in Southern California with our farmers markets and all of that I fully get it. But that said, I have traveled all over the country and I love going to supermarkets. I like going to those big box stores. I like going to Costco I'll go to Walmart, I'll go to Target and I can find plenty of good foods. You do not have to buy organic if you can't afford it or can't find it. Just buy fruits and vegetables. There is nothing wrong with frozen vegetables. You can get frozen cauliflower rice, like literally anywhere you can get it at Walmart, you can get it at Target you can get it anywhere. What are three things that you buy at Costco. So all the cost goes are kind of different. Okay, your Costco and my Costco. I love the frozen wild halibut. Okay, wait, you're the Manhattan Beach Costco. Yeah, technically, it's Hawthorne. Okay. Yes. Okay, so I buy

20:00

bags and bags of ads such an easy thing to defrost for a weeknight and my whole family likes fish. I also buy the frozen cauliflower rice because it's an obsession of mine cauliflower rice, so I buy that. And my Costco also has alcohol. So I might buy alcohol there. But I also buy things like especially for the holidays. They have great things of like organic nuts like walnuts. pKn, you know, they had organic now that's good to know they have Himalayan salt. Some costcos have almond flour. So, you know, again, different ones have different things. So I'll buy that they have hemp seeds, and you're flexible on your brands. To a certain extent, right? Yeah, okay. Yeah, yeah, we'll do what works if you have to see what works totally okay. No, I think that's good to know. Because I think sometimes it's like, oh, my gosh, how am I going to get to erawan? How am I going to get to Whole Foods? I'm going to Costco anyway, for toilet paper. And you know dishwashing liquid, like what can I buy there? And just like, from a money perspective, I mean, $14 containers of strawberries is a little tricky. Oh, yeah. I mean, first of all, erawan. I appreciate erawan. And I love the fact that you probably don't have to like edit through there, like everything is pretty healthy. It's to me outrageously expensive. I know. But it's so beautiful. Oh my gosh. It's like a curated museum. And they're like, wow, yeah, that's what I mean about it's edited. I mean, it's like, perfectly edited. But yeah, it's expensive. Okay, so moving into from ingredients to your approach, like how would you describe the Pamela Salzman approach to eating to eating healthfully? What is it, it's evolved, and it's constantly going to evolve. And I think that one of the things I've learned about me and my family is I don't like to put restrictions, I don't like to say like, I'm at 20 every week, or I'm 9010 every week, meaning like 80%, Whole Foods, and 20%, whatever I want. I'm really, really number one in touch with like, how I feel on a daily basis, how much exercise today get, how much sleep did I get? What does my day look like? What season is it? So I'm really in touch with nature as well. And I eat totally seasonally. But I have to say, I really do prefer a mostly plant based diet with small amounts of fish, occasional little bits of dairy here and there. And if there's an egg in something, I'm totally fine with that. But at this point, now that I'm at, I've lost my taste for red meat. So is my family. I barely eat poultry. And we just feel so much better. Eating mostly plants, and wheat, everything in the plant kingdom, like we're not gluten free. We eat everything. Now, I've heard you say that, just in a typical family leave in mind, like everybody has different tastes and different needs, and kind of trying to maintain the shit show, if you will. It's like, Oh my gosh, how are we going to get through this? And I've heard you say like, your son likes chicken and beef once in a while you don't your husband's totally plant based, like how do you manage all that? It can be really hard. And the key to all of it is just being organized and planning ahead. And it's always been the key to my being able to without stress, put meals on the table every single day. I learned it from my mom again, a lot of things are things that I learned from my family. My mom always had a meal plan every week, her meal plan was pretty much the same thing every week, which is kind of funny, like every Thursday night, it was a day every Monday night it was the same thing. But that said I have to plan it in advance. And I just also am really anti food waste. Another thing I learned from my dad so I just have systems in place that helped me do this like very routinely. Now in terms of like accommodating everybody. At this point. Like my son is really eating a lot more like us. But he's 17 now he's going to be 17 tomorrow and oh my gosh, Mr. picky isn't that I gave him when I first started. I remember that is so funny. Okay, so it's what's so funny about it is back then Sarah, when I started this blog, we weren't supposed to be giving out our kids names. And we were supposed to be trying to teach our children like not to put too much information out there. So I'm like, okay, I can't put my kids names out there because some like pedophile is gonna find them. So that's how he got that name. So like I got to come up with a name and he is picky and I want people to realize that like, I am dealing with a picky child too and I've done all the right things. And so it really resonated with people love it. Of course what do you think happened? He then all this he's not picky anymore, right? I mean, it's been a while, but he's flexible, picky.

25:00

He's totally flexible, picky. I mean, there's a lot of things he won't eat, but it's fine. I know my son says he has a gag reflex for vegetables. I'm like, okay, that worked when you were four, but you're 16 now, like, what? So we're working on that. My husband's the pickiest one now like, my son is really not that picky. So I said to him, I'm like, I gotta tell you, dude, I get a lot of heat from people who think it's like terrible that I call you Mr. picky that it's gonna make you picky forever. And they don't even realize like, you're not that picky. He goes, Mom, we keep the name. I'm kind of famous. And it's my brand. I love it. Okay, it's a healthy Pamela Salzman son, Brad. It's so good. I mean, I remember it. Yeah. So listen, I mean, it's like the one thing that I get over and over again, for my students is like, I've got kids that will need this. My husband's paleo. I'm vegan, like, what do you do? I mean, I taught a boot camp, like about how you? How do you do this? How to manage your show? Yeah, it takes a lot of coordination. I mean, so sometimes, if I make a marinade for like, let's just say I am doing chicken one night, and then my husband will need it. I'll make a marinate for the chicken. And then I'll also use that marinate on a piece of tofu for him. And then I bake everything in the same oven. Is this what you call the templates? Is this the template thing? Oh, template recipes are ones where you just kind of have a little formula. Okay, so whether it's like a soup or a stir fry, and then you can just like swap in different ingredients. I see. So it's similar, it's like kind of having a base and mixing it around. So if you're going to do like a Thai paste, Curry, whatever thing, then you want tofu, but your son might want chicken, so you kind of use that sauce on all the different proteins. That's right. And you can swap in different vegetables or whatever. And so you know, there's really no vegetable that my son won't eat. There are certain things that he doesn't like, though. So like, he doesn't really like sauces. So I always have to serve sauces on the side, or he doesn't like garden dishes of seeds. So if I want sesame seeds on, you know, my fishbowl, then I'll serve them on the side. And so I have learned to be flexible with my child to the extent that I'm comfortable with it. And I think that's really the key is not just doing what I do, because sometimes I see people or they're like, oh, okay, I'm going to do that. And that's going to work for my family. And it might not because your son's not my son. So we have to really kind of step out and look at our families and really start to understand how they work. I wanted to at one point, write a book called figuring out your child's corn tortilla. The meaning of that was when my son was young and really was not eating a lot of stuff. He loved corn tortillas. And I would say to him, okay, like, this is what we're having for dinner. He's like, I don't want that. And I'm like, just try it. I think you'll really like it. We're all eating it. Like we really like I don't want it. I'm like, would you eat it in a corn tortilla? And most of the time, he would say yeah, oh my gosh, that's so funny. So what is your child's corn tortilla? It's the soy sauce and teriyaki sauce. Anything with soy sauce and teriyaki sauce. My son will eat hands down. There you go. So I would tell like my new mommies or people you know, that are having trouble with picky eaters, like, figure out what anything is, whether it's imitation bacon bits, whether it's chocolate chips, that's a good tip. Like, do anything. I don't care if you would never eat peanut butter with fish, like

28:38

Do it. Do whatever it takes. This is such a golden nugget. I love it. I mean, cuz I look like drown food and soy sauce and tomato sauce. Because I'm like, it doesn't even matter. Here's what's gonna happen. Here's what's gonna happen, those green beans that he ate in the corn tortilla and kept doing it and doing it doing it. Then in two years, we're at a friend's house and she serves green beans and roast chicken and he starts eating the green beans like nothing. Yeah, the tortilla has disappeared. Yeah, because now it's familiar to him and it's not scary. You've sort of mask the green bean taste. I love it. And like last night, for example, going back to sort of changing some of the proteins or the or just the bass, like my daughter made Boland A's, and my son won't eat spaghetti squash. But my husband, my daughter, and I liked spaghetti squash, so she made the spaghetti squash from scratch. Then she put the bowl and A's on ours, but then made regular pasta for my son. Everyone's got their needs met. But it's also that like fine line of like a cluster to where you don't want to be a short order chef, like managing my new shy there because that's really annoying. I mean, here's the thing, too. Like, if that's too much work for somebody, then make the pasta in advance and then you have it to reheat if your son is old enough to make his own possible

30:00

Then drag him into the kitchen 15 minutes early and just say, Hey, dude, we need you to like help out here. Yeah, I make him make the rice and clean the pot because I haven't mastered. How do you get the rice out of a pot? Pamela? I don't get it. I mean, because it sticks. Yeah, I was like reading about I was putting like rice wine vinegar and boiling it in the pot with the rice, because that's what YouTube said. Or do you use a rice cooker? Like what's the rice now I don't even own a rice cooker. I don't know. I mean, sometimes my rice gets like sushi rice gets a little sticky in there. If you allow the rice to finish cooking, and then you leave the top on and just kind of let it sit in steam. A lot of the times it does pull away and maybe I'm just diving into quick last. So let it sit there for 10 minutes, 15 minutes and just see what happens. Otherwise, you take your race out and you just soak it. Yeah, I'm just like, Oh my gosh, I'm trying to avoid that project. I'm like, Jake, you're in charge of winning the five. Especially because you're the one who wants the white rice. Now, it seems to me like your overarching cornerstone of healthful eating is basically being as helpful as you can within reason. I guess it's sort of like a flex. Is it a flexitarian? Alyssa Goodman, in my interview with her told me she was a flexitarian.

31:19

Well, flexitarian just means that you're kind of open to all different little, little. So you eat a little I like that term. It was funny. it resonated with me the flexitarian It's a term Yeah, yes. Love it. So your your Cornerstone is sort of being a flexitarian and healthful eating. Can we break it down into like, some mini steps that people could start doing today? Like, tip number one, a well stocked pantry, for example? Yeah, I think number one, everybody is in a different place. And this is not a race. That's number two. You don't have to like get to where you know, your favorite nutritionist is in 30 days or less. I think you just have to decide like what your goals are. I like having goals. It just helps me stay motivated. So if an important goal for you is to start drinking water, then that's where you start. If it's about cooking, because you want to cook more, then I would start with like, how many days a week? Do you want to cook dinner and just like set yourself up for that to just have this? Like, I want to be healthier? Like I don't even know what that means. I don't know how you measure that. I don't know how you're going to meet that goal. So yes, having a well stocked pantry is very helpful. That's number one. What are the elements for one second with a well stocked pantry? I mean, obviously, there's probably 75,000 different parts to it. But like, I know your big thing is oils. Can you talk about that quickly? Yeah, sure. I mean, if I have oil like onion and garlic, I can pretty much start a million recipes that way. So those are some staples in my diet. I don't have that many oils, because there aren't that many that are that good. What are the good oils for you and the bad oils? I use only unrefined olive oil. You know olive oil is a little bit tricky because there can be olive oils from Italy or other places that are just not even real. So you just have to kind of do some research I like for example, there's a brand in California called California Olive Branch. They're good. They're not organic, but they're still good. I like all my oils and dark glass jars. You know, why is that? Because oils are fragile, and they can oxidize and become rancid very easily like a chemistry issue. Yes, when exposed to light heat and air so the light can permeate, you know a clear bottle and oxidize the oil. So you want it to be dark. I am really anti plastic as much as possible. And it's just such an easy fix with oils to just buy glass. There are times where you can't avoid plastic so you let that go. But when I have a choice, I'm always going to choose glass because the plastics just leach into your oils. And so then you keep all your oils in a cool place not on your stove or on your oven where it keeps getting warm all the time because again, that will break down your oils more quickly. So I use an unrefined olive oil. I mean there's a couple of brands that I'll choose between besides California Olive Branch lucini is a good one. Oh, is a good one jovial foods has a really nice one for drizzling. We'll put all these in the show notes. So if anyone's busy trying to like send themselves text like I do, or write it down. We'll have them in the show notes. Yeah, yeah. I use a naturally refined avocado oil by chosen foods and there is is real. What about coconut oil. So I use a little bit of coconut oil. I don't use it a ton. I use it more in like baking or if I make pancakes or like brush the griddle with coconut oil, I don't use it as

35:00

As much as people think I would, there's nothing wrong with it there are people who can be sensitive to the saturated fat in coconut oil and it can work against some you know if you have like heart disease and things like that, which my husband is doing. Okay, so I know I'm careful with the coconut oil but I do use it and those are really the three that I cook with. I mean a little bit of roasted sesame oil for flavor, but it's not one that I really use a lot of. So those are my oils. I use a little ghee now and then but it's not again, not something my family loves. And then I'll use either real butter or a vegan butter by me Yoko's Creamery. Oh yeah, I have that too. Now, what about salt? Can you give us like the quick and dirty on salt? Yeah. So salt is easy for me because I like a couple of different high mineral sea salts that I really like that are just cleaner. And is that a pink salt? Is that a Himalayan salt? Yeah, so I vacillate between three different salts, the color and salt just relates to the minerals that are in the salt. It's nice to kind of change them up, you know? So I like a gray Celtic sea salt. There's a brand out of Utah called Real Salt. The company is called Redmond. That salt is awesome. That's my favorite one. But you can get it at Whole Foods or on Thrive Market calm or if somebody wanted to buy one great salt. Like could you use that for everything? Yes, I love real. Okay, so that could be like a one size fits all if you wanted it to be great. Okay, yeah. Or Himalayan pink salt is great, too. I get a big giant thing at Costco, which is awesome. Then I also use kosher salt I use like an additive free kosher salt. What does that even mean? The one that doesn't have anything added to it so people don't realize that salt can have chemicals added to it aluminum, yellow number whatever dextrose and you don't want those things and your salt First of all, it makes the salt taste metallic. And second of all, who needs that shit in your food? How is the pink salt different than like the grey salt for example. It's literally just a difference in minerals. I don't buy into this like vibrational frequency of salt thing. And that's not why I'm buying so I'm just saying I don't know if anything is blessed by you know the mountains are that's not why I'm buying salt. I buy it because I don't need chemicals in my food and I want my food to taste good. And again, I'm trying to just vary the minerals that I'm getting from my salt. But sea salt is more expensive than kosher salt. So that's why when I do use kosher salt, it's in applications where I might be throwing something away like pasta water. Got it? That makes sense. Okay, so at least we have our salt tips down now in terms of like a few other pantry staples nut butter, can beans BPA free tuna can Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm a huge legume fan. So I have every bean what brand of beans you like if I want to buy a can of beans My favorite is jovial in little glass jars but they only have like three or four different kinds I see that brand all over your Instagram. Oh my God because they're the best I love them so much. Shout out to jovial I swear I should be like their spokesperson but i do i just love them so much and then eat an organic is noisy out on yours too. Yeah, so I love though those are my two favorites and then you know I do make beans from scratch. It's way cheaper but it just takes longer. And there are some really cool like heirloom beans like by Rancho Gordo. Those are awesome. Like if you just kind of want to mix it up a little bit. So I'm really into beans really into lentils. I have all that stuff in the pantry at all times like jars of canned fish like wild salmon, tuna, capers, little flavor boosters like that. glass jars of tomatoes. Like these are big staples for me. Yeah, I love that you're buying things off the shelf too, because sometimes it's like there's just no way that you push it away. But I think that's also what is so nice about where we are now as opposed to where we were 15 years ago is like there were really awesome clean, prepared marinara sauces like I would never have bought tomato sauce off the shelf back then because they just didn't taste that good. Most of them had high fructose corn syrup and sugar. And now like you can find what brand Do you like now off the shelf? I need the Pamela Salzman Italian approved. Yeah. My two favorite are we love rhinos. It's not like my daughter. She usually makes us sauce from scratch. But last night she was like, I'm so glad we had a jar of rayos I was like okay, good to have on hand. Oh my gosh. Are you kidding? It's like a lifesaver. So good. Love that one. And then the one

40:00

From Thrive Market their private label one is really good too. Okay, try that again and glass. Yeah, love it that's good to know now in terms of a few things because I want to dig into sort of the psychology of how you got started and all of that and I want to save time for that but what are like three things that you're like you got to get that shit out of your cabinet? Yeah, okay for me the refined vegetable oils is a total no like like a Western oil or like anything that just like vegetable oil and plastic that is just a total bottle of inflammation and free radicals. I better go check my pantry. I you just don't need it. You can just do like a chosen foods avocado oil, and you'll be so much better if you're doing some kind of basic baking thing that says vegetable oil out of a box. You can substitute in grapeseed oil. I actually don't do grapeseed oil because it's refined. Okay, so what could you put in? I would just do an avocado oil or it depends if you're doing something that would taste good with a coconut oil. You do coconut oil. If it's like a banana bread, I actually love olive oil and banana bread. It actually tastes really good. And now we're at zucchini bread, same thing. So I would get that out. Anything that's like stored in plastic, like that has oils or is acidic. That to me is a no chemical sponge, basically. Yeah, I know leaching, leaching, leaching, and we just don't need it, it's not necessary. And then you know, there are higher quality versions of almost everything now. So if you're doing a mac and cheese with like yellow food coloring, you can do better. You can still get instant mac and cheese, but you don't need to buy like Annie's or bonza or whatever. You don't need all that other junk, right? No, that definitely makes sense. I know that. In terms of another tip, you definitely we've talked about this before is like eating more plant food, more colors, more rainbows. Do you in your mind? Think like, Okay, well, if we eat at least one great meal a day of five different vegetables like a great salad. Like, is that enough? Like, how do you measure that? Yeah, you know, I don't really think in terms of like, Oh, I got to make sure that we're getting enough. Like, we always eat vegetables with at least lunch and dinner and quite a few of them. If they don't happen at breakfast, that's okay, as well. But when I'm writing out my dinner planner for the week, I am kind of making sure that we've got a couple of cruciferous vegetables in there that we've got a couple of dark green leafy vegetables in there. And then I kind of throw in whatever, but I always have a minimum of one if not two vegetables at each meal. And very often it's multiple, because I'm really getting into more these days. Diversity of foods in the diet, it's been shown to really have so many benefits, especially for the gut microbiome to have the diversity of plants. So if you're going to make a roasted sheet pan of cauliflower, instead of doing all cauliflower, mix it up, like do a third cauliflower, a third broccoli and like a third, maybe even something different like sunchokes you know what I mean? That you've never done before or rutabaga or something. Because all of the different types of fibers in different plant foods feed different bacteria in the gut. And that's where we're really falling short these days is the lack of diversity in the gut microbiome. And when we feed that bacteria, the bacteria produce these really beautiful anti inflammatory, short chain fatty acids that are so good for us. So that's something I'm trying to teach more and more right now is just to kind of like, open yourself up to more, right? No, that's definitely a golden nugget there. I mean, I'm not the best at vegetable diversity. I have to be honest, but you could be but I could be I'm gonna take a first step and like try to incorporate salads, right. So I'm sure you eat a salad for dinner at least once a week, right? Like always picking romaine or always picking butter lettuce. Why not buy one small head of radicchio and mix it in and just see how you like it or one little thing of n dive and mix that in or a little bit of a wrinkle? Oh, yeah, I like that. It kind of goes back to like one tiny little step instead of like saying, Oh my god, I'm going to become vegetarian. I'm going to add 7 million different vegetables. It's like we'll just pick one little thing and like start there. So I will definitely add that to my list. Now. I know that you're obsessed with salad dressing and that topic. Can you highlight that for us

45:01

Oh, that makes me sound so shallow. But no, but it's so true when you hear your explanation. I'm like, She's so right. The reason I'm obsessed with salad dressing, well, making my own salad dressing is because like we just mentioned, we love salad. And it's just such like an easy default vegetable to do. Like, let's say you get home from work late and you don't have time to roast brussel sprouts, like, I washed my lettuce as soon as I get home for the market just so it's done. You can like throw anything together make a salad. So the reason that I always always make my own salad dressings is because there's not any salad dressing out there that uses high quality, unrefined olive oil. They're all refined olive oils. I mean, maybe there's something out there that uses an unrefined olive oil, but it's always in a clear bottle, which I just said, allows light to get in and oxidize the oil. And then there could be other junk in there too. Yeah, so it's just like a cluster nasty, like I want to control like if there's going to be maple syrup or honey in the salad dressing. Like I want to control the type of maple syrup that's in there. The amount that's in there, I want to control everything. So I just find my neurotic Pamela. I'm not neurotic.

46:14

You're flexible, neurotic. I'm flexible, neurotic. No, I'm on your show. Totally such a good match. But here's the thing too. The reason I like to cook is because I want to eat what I want to eat. Like I like the taste of like my salad dressing. Make sense weight into the salad dressing that you're referring to is this Green Goddess nosing called one that I've been making once or twice a week for like 15 years. And I'll tell you this the reason I even came up with this dressing you're gonna laugh because you know my mother in law. It because it is this everyday salad dressing. Number two, it's on my website. It's in both my books, I still make it and like and then once a week, I'll make a different salad dressing to have just whatever is like your staple. This is my staple. This is what I call the house dressing. My mother in law when I first got married, bless her heart, and this is no shame if I love her. She's so yeah, like those wishbone four seasons, whatever those like, open the Yeah.

47:14

Apples and put it into it. If you like that, that's totally fine. Like, I've got my own devices. That's all good. Yeah, but I couldn't do it. Because I grew up with like oil and vinegar, eating frosting out of a container. I have to tell you a lot for it. Yeah, I just didn't have the taste for it. And again, I'm not trying to food shame anybody because I have my own things that you might think are like, Oh, why would you eat that? That's so gross. But I just didn't have the tastes for the powder. And then you put the oil and vinegar in it. So I said to her, I'm like, I'm going to come up with a salad dressing that's going to taste just as good as this one that you're going to like, and let's see. And that's what I did. I came up with this particular everyday salad dressing number two is what I call it because there was already a number one there. We'll put a link in the show notes to it. He now has made that salad. She makes it once a week since then go Sonia. He loves it. Love it her favorite. Okay, that's good to know. That's a great tip. That's a good another golden nugget. I told you this is going to be like Golden Nugget mania with Pamela. Okay, wait. Okay, now like the sweet spot of golden nuggets with Pamela I know why you is meal planning? Oh, yeah. Yeah, just tell us like three or four things about why it's so fucking important. I know it sounds really boring to people. But it's like I don't have time for it sounds boring. Like, ah, so take us through it for a minute. And then I want to dig deep with you personally keep going. Let me just say meal planning. If you don't think you have time for it, then you actually have to do it because it frees you up. It is the most liberating thing you could possibly do if you're going through your workweek. And you're like, you've always got the dinner cloud hanging over your head, like, Oh, I should have defrosted the chicken now what am I gonna do? I'm gonna call my husband see if he want what he wants for dinner. And he's gonna say, I don't know, what do you want for dinner? And I don't know, who's gonna be like, I don't need that. Then you call them back in four hours. You're like, I really need to figure this out. Who has time for that? Oh, it's time for that you have work to do. Okay, you're at the office like you have work to do. Or you're you know, you're with your kids or you're working from home like you don't have time for your brain to be occupied with the thought of what am I going to have for dinner tonight? Just write it down on a Saturday or a Sunday you shop and then you're done for the week and wake up in the morning. You're like, oh, we're having chili tonight. Or we're having chicken Melanie's It doesn't matter what you make, but just to like break it down. What does it look like you have a piece of paper. So what I teach my peeps is to get a binder just go to staples or target get like a three to one of your kids. Cuz now they're in zoom. My kids are like, we don't need binders. Everything's in Google Drive. There you go. Yeah, get a binder. Start by putting in your greatest hits. Okay, whatever it is. You're

50:00

I garden like bow ties with broccoli and lemon. Like who cares? You start and you divided up into sections like main dishes soups, Lola, whatever. And then you've got a starting point, what you're about to do is you're going to create your own cookbook. You just photocopied. It doesn't have to be gorgeous. It can be like, Oh, you know, you don't even need a three hole puncher. If you don't have one, you can just like poke it through the binder holes. Like let's not make it perfect. Or you get plastic sleeves. winders look like they're not attractive. They don't need to be they just need to be functional. But I do have them organized by section because otherwise you're not able to find so you can take your kids dividers too. Yeah. And so back in the day before I started teaching, this is what I would do. I would grab my binder, I would sit down with my calendar, because we had a calendar. It was like, Yeah, and I would you remember that husband's gone Wednesday night. Great. I know. It's like having a real telephone.

50:52

You hold your ear Hi. Yes, I know. But so now I sit with my phone and I look at my calendar. But I'm like, Okay, my husband's out Wednesday night. That means I'm making shrimp that night, because that's he doesn't like shrimp. So then I would save it for that night or we're both out on Thursday night, I'm going to make the kids like something that I don't like, like meatballs, or I'm teaching or I'm working on Tuesday night. So I need something that can be made ahead or a slow cooker meal. And so then I just kind of fill in that way. And then I have my own formula. Like you know, when we used to eat more meat, I would be like okay, fish twice a week, chicken twice a week, beef once a week, vegetarian, whatever. And I would always give myself like Saturday night off. So I kind of would come up with that formula, then I'm filling in with different veggie like whatever. Sometimes I would make something for two nights and we would just reheat it the next night or repurpose it, but then I would fill in the blanks. I also I should have said my one of my systems is to look in my fridge first and I pull old stuff. I do this every Friday afternoon. I pull old stuff to the front that I'm like, I need to get rid of this or like there's an egg plant that's starting to look a little soft. I got this is like going back to your dad days of like not wasting right it's in my DNA I can totally cannot wait God. Then like the last couple of years I've challenged myself like once a week I go in the freezer. And I'm like something in this weird shit in the freezer like a freaking graveyard. God it's like a plea. My visit helped me so much to like I love being able to like, say like, okay, one thing out of this freezer is going to become part of the week's meal plans. And so that's how I come up with my meal plan for the week. I sit and like if my family is like watching a sports game, I'll sit with them on the couch and like put it together. Sometimes I'm nice. And I'll be like, What does everybody want this week, that's when you're being super flexible. Otherwise, I'm really not like super democratic. You take all your favorite recipes. Hopefully some of them are from your two books, you would photocopy them, shove them in the plastic sleeves, put them in the binder, then you'd be like, okay, Monday, I'm making tacos. Tuesday, I'm making halibut one day I'm making pomegranate salad. Then you go to the market on Saturday, Sunday or Monday, one time with all of those meal ideas and recipes and your list and you buy all the shit at the same time. You couldn't do it that way. So you don't even have to go to the market 12 times that week. Well, that's part of the point. Right? Exactly. So I evolved from marketing once a week to marketing once a week plus, like a farmers market stop once a week. So I'm kind of divide. I mean, maybe I'll throw a Costco shopping there once a month I order stuff from like Thrive Market, you know, whatever works for you is what you have to do. But there is so much more freedom. I mean, do you see how you're like, number one not thinking about it. Or, you know, you could also maybe you have a babysitter at home while you're out at the office. Because you know, you're making vegetable stew, who could like chop a couple vegetables for you while you're gone. It's just pre planning your shift. So you're not it's not taking up mindshare, every day all day long, because dinner is important, but it can't take up your whole day. And everyone's opinions at some point become irrelevant because you're the one responsible for it. Unless somebody else wants to take ownership of it in the house. But But here's the thing, too, is like, you know, again, I did this all in like a recent boot camp is like you also can come up with your own systems, but you need systems. So what if your system for meal planning is like my mom had a system it was like Monday night was Meatless Monday. I mean, she was doing that back in the day. Tuesday, you know, was whatever, but like you could do a taco Tuesday every Tuesday could be any kind of taco night, right? You could do fish on Friday, like we always did fish on Friday when I was growing up. We did bake DD on Thursdays, like maybe it's pasta night for you on Thursdays maybe it's like on the weekends. When you have a little bit more time. It's like, try a new recipe night so you're pulling things from the newborn up at sea and you have like a section. That's like, I want

55:00

To try these or you have a Pinterest board, and then when you feel like you have a little bit more time, some week, you'd be like, you know what, this is a good week to try something new. Like I'm going to pull from that kind of inspiration. That section. Yeah. And I also think that going back to this idea of like, small steps to creating a new habit, if you take like your meal planning and you you're scared to do a whole week of it, because it seems like too much like maybe you do it for just two days. Like you do it for Monday, Tuesday. You buy those materials and ingredients and you try it out. And you'll probably love it so much that you'll just keep going. But maybe it just seems daunting to be like oh my god the whole week and all the ingredients start small. Yeah, that's the whole thing is like you're not in a race with anybody. You're not competing with anybody Just do it. If you're not cooking at all, just pick one night. Yeah, that's so good. So good, better, more last week. So I'm really a believer in just like figuring out where you are and doing what you can like doing what you can commit to. No, I love it. That's another golden nugget. Guys, I just love it. Okay, I want to get into you and you personally because you have sort of become you know, a little bit of an Instagram influencer, I might say and everybody wants to know what you're doing to stay so beautiful and healthy. So in this self recreation journey of being plus 40 I'm obsessed with this idea of internally expanding ourselves and evolving internally, but also kind of maintaining my exterior at the same time like exterior maintenance. What are your thoughts on that and what do you do? Okay, well, you know, I am a very low maintenance girl. Let me just start there. You know, I pick my battles something that I could not live with even though I'm you know, I have this brand of all natural all natural is I couldn't live with the gray hair. So that's my advice. I do color my hair I have this amazing colorist to found this like relatively low toxic hair color for me and I love it. I just feel good doing that. Otherwise, I do nothing. I do not special like a shuttle. Yeah, now like once a year I get a fake. I'm not a big facial person either. I love them. I just don't really have a ton of time. What about what are your thoughts on Botox and dermabrasion? Again, I feel like if that's what you want to do, great, it's a little scary to me to inject something into my face and I'm not at the point yet where I'm not happy with the way my skin looks. It's unbelievable that you're not doing that because I am and I'm like oh my god. Now my forehead certainly look like lather I need to refill. But I haven't gotten all over my face yet. Just no attachment like again. If that's what you do, it's fine. Yeah, that's the thing is I feel like we all have to just stop judging each other. It's like some people are gonna get Botox. Some people are and some people are going to spin and some people are going to do polities like everybody's going to do their own thing and like who really gives a shit? I just Yeah, for me I'm so sensitive to chemicals that I worry that by injecting something into my face that I might have a really negative reaction. So I took me a while to find the chemicals Pamela

58:23

that's right and says that she never put enough in you. I'm like I like a few sulfates in my shampoo once in a while because it gives a little volume. I do like hairspray. I'm not joking. Like I really am sensitive to chemicals and so I have a problem like it took me a long time to find the right hair color that wouldn't make my hair fall out and give me a migraine every time I got no that's crazy really bad. So like that's my thing like Who am I to be asking you what the hair color is but the salon for if your listeners are in LA my salon that I go to is in West Hollywood is called blow me away and Mike Sayaka and Chuck, okay, good. But my point is like, like Who am I to judge anybody that does Botox when I'm coloring my hair? What's the difference? I know, what's the difference? There is different like keeping yourself like looking good. You know, I also don't put a lot of pressure on myself. Like I do not have a perfect body at all. Like I'm not skinny. I'm not like super fit. I look. Well put together. You're fat, you're fine. You're gonna be a bikini model tomorrow. Now you're good enough and good enough. But that's the whole thing is like where do I land in terms of like, Where am I satisfied with the way I look like I wasn't satisfied with the gray. Yeah, it only matters for you personally, that's the thing in all of this. It's like I wear makeup every day. Because I want to not because someone else's like she's not wearing makeup today. Why isn't she wearing makeup? It's because I want to and I think that's so weird.

1:00:00

Important. It also comes with age. Like when I turned 50. Like, it was weird, like I literally woke up and I'm like, Oh my gosh, it's so weird. I actually do not care what anybody thinks of me. Right? I love that. And it's like, I think that every five years, I would get a little bit more of that. But there was something that happened on my 50th birthday, where I was like, I don't care is something transformational in sort of the 40 plus time, I mean, my first guest, Angela Nazarian, she says that, like there's a personal transformation every five to seven years, I actually think it's really true, because especially now with social media, and especially with you With such a huge following, like, you must really have to put yourself out there and just not care. Yeah, you're absolutely right. You cannot care. And I've had people like be really mean, and harsh to me, whether it's out in the open or privately, like people accuse me of using lip filler. I'm like, have you seen pictures of me from 12 years ago? No, I have to say exactly. Say I don't do like, you know, how can you use lip filler manage the social media media with you. I mean, you do have a big following. I'm lucky in that I don't normally attract like trolls and things like that. I haven't had that many experiences where people aren't nice to me, and especially attacking me personally about like, physical stuff like that. It has not happened that often. My daughter's told me early on. I remember the first time that I got sort of criticized and it was just so mean, like, I forget what the comment was. But publicly, it was like a public comment on my blog. And I said to my daughters, I'm like, What am I supposed to say to them? And my daughter at the time was like, 13. She goes, Mom, you do not engage with haters. Oh, she goes, if you need to understand, go to Chloe Kardashians Instagram page, she does not engage. I'm like, okay, that's such a good tip. Yeah, she was totally right. Because I was like, should I tell them? That's not nice. I

1:02:08

might say, don't engage. I'm like, okay, so like, you know what, there are just people out there that just don't feel good. And they feel better being mean to somebody else. And it just is what it is. But you're right. When you are out there you are putting yourself out there. Right. And I think he like even now with this podcast. And for me, like, I'm new to Instagram. And so these sort of this idea of like taking this next up creating this podcast, putting up a new Instagram, like, that's a lot of vulnerability, just like laid out. It's sort of like high honor. Like I'm being vulnerable. I'm totally new to this whole thing, like, join me, but like, Let's all be supportive of each other because everybody has their own shit to deal with. But not only is it like that with social media, but you know, when I taught my first cooking class, I put myself out there when I was trying to get people to come, you know, to some of my classes, I was putting myself out there. What if I fail? What if nobody comes? What if they don't like me? What if it's not good? My first public talk, I was super nervous. My first talk, where was a lot of people, 800 people? What if they don't like me? What if I stink? My first time on TV, my first time on national TV. I mean, this is life, right? So if you don't step into that discomfort, you don't grow. And that's what I'm constantly trying to tell myself. And it's something I've taught my kids also, is I waited a long time to teach that first class because I was nervous. And I felt like I could be setting myself up for a public failure. And then I was just like, well, it's never gonna happen if I don't actually do it. I mean, it took me years, I had it in my head, that I would try and do something. And then I finally did it. And that's when I learned and so now every time I get into that place where I'm like, Okay, I'm really uncomfortable. I'm really nervous. I'm like, you have so much experience in your life that has taught you that if you don't go for it, then it will never happen. And if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world. And who cares? If you fail, it just means that you have to either try it in a different way. But I feel like there's so much to be learned from failure. And also, I'm setting myself up for teaching my kids they mean, we're not necessarily teaching them outright or watching us they're watching like my kids and watching this whole podcast, start from an idea. I'm working 10 hours a day, like all by myself, like sweating it out. And they're like watching this whole thing evolve. They're like, Oh my god, she's doing this. She had this idea. She's putting herself out there. She's trying something new. Let them say

1:05:00

be nervous. Yeah, do it anyway. That's the thing. It's the nervous and do it anyway, that's the Golden Nugget because we're all fucking nervous. All of us, everybody and every say you aren't, I don't know, maybe you're a unicorn. But I think all of us at the end of the day, have vulnerabilities have self doubts, but it's like you said, looking at, okay, I've done some successful things in my life. I have to look to where I've been successful, and where I've had failures and just take that next step no matter what, but it's so hard to do. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I feel it. It's so hard to do, but it's life. It is part of life. Now in terms of like, parenting, like you were just talking about showing our kids, what we're doing. And you know, and walking the walk, not just talking the talk, what has your experience been as sort of a rad mom in LA? Well, sort of outside of LA, you moved to Manhattan Beach? What has your experience been with raising three kids in LA? Or LA, adjacent? and What tips do you have for all of us, because I know you have one daughter who's working and done with college, then the second daughter is just graduated, which is crazy. And you have an 11th grader, so I kind of want to like pick your rad mom brain like shoulda, woulda, coulda does, like, college pressure expectation. Yeah. Okay, so we did leave LA, the west side for Manhattan Beach, because we just found it to be a little intense. And not necessarily in sync with our intensity level, which is was a lot less, you know, so we found a community in Manhattan Beach, that was just a little bit more chill. I mean, that's all I'm gonna say, I work in LA all the time. And I love my best friends are in LA. And it's all good. But it just fit our style, our family. Better Work also ended up being there, which was, yeah, so that's all good. That said, Manhattan Beach can also be a little intense. And I think you, you just have to be on the same page as your partner, and be true to yourselves and not get too caught up in it all. So I don't know that I have any, like golden nuggets for parenting. I mean, it just seems like there's so many Golden Nugget parenting moments, for sure, for sure. But in terms of your self recreation, before we wrap up, where you just tell us sort of go back to the volunteer position and taking that first step and sort of give us a little bit of a rundown of how that played out to where you are today. You know, I was thinking about going back to work. And I said to my husband, I'm like, I think it's time, you know, my youngest was starting preschool and all that. And I'm like, I think it's time I'm really ready. And he's like, what do you want me to do? I'm like, I have no idea. That sounds familiar. I had my MBA already at that point. And, you know, the plan had been to go back into corporate and do something and like marketing or whatever. And I just didn't feel it. I wasn't feeling like that's where my heart was. And you know, at that point, when I was volunteering, I really was learning more about nutrition. And I was starting to see this, you want to volunteer at a school in a gardening and health program for a nonprofit that would teach in different public schools, I became one of their teachers. And then eventually, I managed a garden and eventually became on the board of that organization. So I was just seeing this, like total disconnect. And I was thinking like, gosh, I would love to get into the wellness space. I just didn't know what that looks like. And so I kind of just like kept putting these intentions out there to the universe. Like, I don't see how this is going to look. But I really would love to help people. And I would love to help mothers with health and nutrition, whether it's their own or their families. And again, I just I was like, Do I go back and I even looked into like being a registered dietician or nutritionist and being performance driven women like we are we're like, Wait, is there a degree for that? Like, can I? Yeah, Chapa check another box on that one, pay for an MS degree. It's like two years, like, Can I do that with the three kids and the whole thing and I'm like, I don't know, like you said a degree doesn't always get you to where you want to be. It's like you have an Ivy League degree, but then you have kids but like, what's next? That's how I am. It's like, I went to an Ivy League school. I got a master's degree. I got a PhD. I took all this time off to raise my children. I'm like, Okay, what now? Like, what's my first step? So how did you get to this volunteer thing? Well, the volunteer thing, I just volunteered for it, right? I mean, I just saw it.

1:10:00

was like your first step, you're like, Okay, step, I'm not gonna find a job in this exact field, just make them call and no, no and, and in fact, I wasn't even thinking that was going to relate to anything I wanted to do with my career I just happened to then after volunteering, start to realize, like, I was very interested in wellness. And I was very interested in maybe pursuing a career that had to do with wellness, as opposed to doing what I used to do. Like, I mean, my last job had been with a studio in like, filmed entertainment licensing, and I just my heart wasn't looked at your strengths and your passions, and honed in on it, and then tried to figure out what the next small step was from that. I mean, and then I was just thinking, you know, when I love food, like maybe William Sonoma can give me a job in marketing, or like, maybe I work for, you know, Kaiser Permanente. Like, I didn't know what, I didn't even know, what would it look like. And I happen to be in a cooking group, at the time with a bunch of girls, just the way the the one that you went to Allison's house that you saw, like, I was in one of those groups. And then one of my friends in the group said, you know, you should be teaching this class, like, we would learn so much more for you. And I thought it was a joke, because then your vulnerabilities come in. And that's what I was taught me and enough time to say yes, she kept asking me, so it was the nugget we say yes, sooner? Yes. Okay. And because people ask me all the time, like, how do I do this? I'm like, you just start, you just start saying yes to random things. Sarah, if I had seen the one class turn into for a week, and the two books, and then the TV appearances, and the writing for a magazine on the side would have been paralyzed? I wouldn't have done it. Yeah, I wouldn't have done it at all, because that's too much work. And that's how do I do that? How do I get from A to Z? So I went in with no plan. I'm like, Alright, I'll just do this one class once a month, and we'll see what happens. And it'll bite me some time until I figure out what I really want to do with my life. And then I did the class. And I was like, Okay, this is what I meant to do. But I still didn't see it branching out to for a week and blah, blah, blah. The next nugget is you didn't have to see like the clear path, the performance driven Pamela, the finish line, you are okay. With a little ambiguity, a little discomfort, not having a perfect plan. That's hard for people like us. Pamela, one of my friends was the one who encouraged me to say yes, she goes, why wait? And I was like, I'm just not sure I know enough. She goes, well then teach what you know. I love so good. I'm like, Yeah, what are you fucking know, I can do that. Then I realized later on. And then I followed this coursework, and like, you know, had to do more work. Right, right, totally, of course, work in like Holistic Health Counseling. And one of the golden nuggets was like, you know, enough. Nobody knows everything. But you know, enough. So that's what I teach. I teach what I know. And that is enough for a lot of people. And you also admit to what you don't know. Oh, for sure. I mean, that's the beauty of it all. It's like, even as a parent, you're like, I have no idea. But let me find out for you. And that's sort of how I feel about this podcast is like, I want to pick people's brains like you because I want to find those nuggets for people for things that I don't know or want to know more about. Right? flexible, neurotic. Oh, my gosh, okay. So you started teaching the classes, and then you were teaching four classes a week, and then what? Well, you know, then I got the book deal. And I'm doing social media. And then, you know, with the book deal, I started writing for a magazine. I mean, it's just it's, you know, stuff happens from there. I got, I think I was on today's show when I got the book deal. And that's why did you get a book deal? Did you write a proposal and submit it to publishers? No, I wrote a proposal and I submitted it to an agent, somebody introduced me to a literary agent. Okay. And then she said, your proposal is terrible. So that's another nugget. It's like, you and I are used to like getting A's. So how did you feel when you got that sort of? Well, listen, how I felt was thank God, I found her or thank God, she took me on because she knows the point is at that point, you could have been like, Well, I'm not good enough. No, I didn't think that right. But you could have or people could be like, Oh, I wasn't accepted to that. So I'm just going to give up but you took it in stride. Yeah, I mean, the book, I already knew that. I was going to be able to write a good book. So she took me on. And she's like, this is how you're going to write your proposal. So get to work and call me in a week. And I did and she goes, that's still not good enough. And I really need this on publishers desks. You know, the morning that you're on today's show, which was in a week from then so like, get moving. And so then I worked really, really hard on that proposal. And she's like now it's great.

1:15:00

So she sent it to publisher She goes, I'm not going to tell you everybody says no, because it's going to be almost everybody. We just need one or two people to say yes. And that's what happened. We had two publishers say yes. And we took the better offer. And the better that for me and I had got my first book deal. And it was exciting. Another nugget emulating. I'm just fallen nuggets you are, it's like a gold rush. Now what about so you've done the two books, you have this online course. And you manage a whole social media platform? Yes, I do manage all my own social, I manage my own blog, I have started farming out the photography for the blog. So I don't really do a lot of my own photography anymore, just because I'm not that good at it. But yeah, then I took the classes, and I built this online membership platform so people can take classes with me monthly, online. And then since the pandemic started, I've been doing online like these cooking boot camps, and those have been awesome. And you have the Instagram Live. So you have one in 20 minutes. I do have one in time.

1:16:02

Because counting Yeah, who's counting? You're like, tick tock, tick tock. Oh, my gosh. Well, the one little section I like to do at the end of an episode is called fun shit about the guests. So this is gonna be fun shit about Pamela. And I know you're performance driven. There's no right answer just blurted out. Okay. So what's next on the bucket list? Oh, a product. Ooh, okay. Anything that you've learned that's now on your bucket list after quarantine. Okay, can you explain what that means? Please? Like?

1:16:37

I'm not saying yes to things. I don't want to say yes to anymore. Or I'm not doing the Costco runs anymore. Daniel's doing those like, what do you realize like you just don't have space for? Yeah, well, I think there's a lot but I think something that I've realized is I need less than I thought I needed. You know, I just don't need that much stuff. That's so funny. My husband's like, we should go minimalist. I'm like, Do you know me? That's really hard.

1:17:09

I want a pair down like I don't need as much as I thought I needed. Totally. That's a good one. Secret pleasure. I mean, it's probably not chocolate. But what is this enough? It's ice cream. Ooh, is it like a specific brand? Is it like super healthy? Well, I How can I be super healthy? I do happen to prefer just because it makes me feel better like vegan ice creams. Okay, what brand I like so delicious. Ooh, yeah. My son is obsessed with those mini ice cream sandwiches. Oh my gosh. Okay, favorite beauty treatment? You don't really don't know that many No. facials? I just don't i don't make time for myself a cream that you love. I use a lot of beauty counter products. And then I do like this. I like oils. Okay, what's your favorite oil agent in a tour? This like serum? This oil serum is so good. Okay, perfect. Do you do any woowoo things crystals meditation standing on your head sideways.

1:18:09

I do like to meditate from time to time, I have to get into more of a routine for sure. And there is something that I don't know why it's good for me. And it's especially good for my allergies. It's so weird. I went to this medical intuitive who told me to do this. I smack the bottom of my feet. Okay, 36 times each foot and there's something about it. Because my feet can get kind of cold and then when my feet are cold, I don't feel 100% often do you do that in the morning and at night. So we do do both feet at the same time or one foot one at a time. I don't know what your right hand or left hand doesn't matter is my right hand on my left foot and then the opposite and there's something about it. I don't really know what it does, but it's like called slapping. It's good for me. I guess it's sort of like having a breath work routine. Yours is like a Pamela's foot slapping routine that works. Okay. Okay, favorite TV shows that you're watching now or? Oh, we just finished bloodline. I love I was so good. I was so bummed when we finished that. Oh, Jeremy and I are in the middle of outlanders right now. So good. And we love the pole darks. I'm obsessed with the pole darks. I was like devastated when that ended. What was the last thing you ordered from Amazon? Oh, that's a good question. Um, I don't know. Do I order anything from Oh, paper towels probably. Okay. That's not that exciting. Okay. Intuition natural to you, or do you have to work at it? No, it does. But the thing is, is I have to learn to listen. Yes. Sometimes I have a gut about something. I don't know. How do we override that Chet? It's not cool. Every time I go against it, it works against me. So yes, I am very intuitive. You

1:20:00

I tried to teach that to my kids to them like, you know, when you get that like stomach like paying, like that's it that's like that's when you know, okay, what's the smallest thing we can do today to start our shift toward self recreation? I think you have to just be true to who you are and not try and compare yourself to other people. You've gotten better at that as you've gotten older me to LA to definitely it's not about other people. It's really your journey. It's your life to enjoy to learn from to evolve. It's someone cares enough to judge you. That's like their own issue. That's how you have to see it. And that's why I tried to teach my kids to what would your bottom line advice be on finding the sweet spot in the second half of life? I think you have to sort of give into the number one just aging gracefully. You can't fight nature, necessarily. But I also think that you're not going to be able to find your sweet spot and your second half of your life if you're not healthy. In order to be able to enjoy life. It's really so much easier if you're not fighting illness, etc. We have to take care of ourselves. That's a good one. Okay, Pamela, now that we have our shit shoveled for today, I hope you've all loved Pamela's golden life nuggets as much as I have. Pamela I love digging deep with you with our golden shovels today on this podcast. If listeners want to find you, where can they find you? It's really easy. It's just Pamela Salzman everywhere. And that's Salzman with no t right as a LZ ma n Instagram website or to books or online classes, right? Yeah, that's it. So everyone think about what shit you can start doing today. One small step one meal plan. I want to thank Pamela for highlighting the tools and inspiration that helped us to enhance our mental and physical health in the second half of life, and hence this podcast. Pamela Saltzman Thank you so much. This was a joy. Love it. Talk to you soon. Get your Instagram Live guys. Yeah.

1:22:18

Hi, it's me again, I listened to this episode with Pamela Salzman. So I could summarize the golden nuggets for you to have actionable items to start living more flexibly today. They're a little bit long, maybe two or three minutes, hold tight because it's good. Number one, don't put rigid restrictions on what you eat. It's important to maintain flexibility with your food. Pamela says rigidity doesn't help anyone. It's better to focus on what you have done or what you can do rather than what you should limit. She says that she has learned what works best with her family, his moderation and everything. check in with yourself on a daily basis. How am I feeling today? How much sleep did I get? What does my day look like? This can help you decide on food and exercise needs for your day, and try to eat seasonably most of the time. Number two, get some diversity in your diet. Pamela says don't stick with one color veggie the rainbow has so many positives. Diversity of foods in the diet has been shown to really have so many benefits, especially for the microbiome, to have the diversity of plants. So if you're going to make a roasted sheet pan of cauliflower, instead of doing all cauliflower, mix it up, like do a third cauliflower, a third broccoli and a third, maybe even something different like sunchokes. Because all the different types of fibers in different plant foods, it feeds different bacteria in the gut. And that's where we're falling short these days is the lack of diversity in the gut microbiome. And when we feed that bacteria, the bacteria produce these really beautiful anti inflammatory, short chain fatty acids that are so good for us. That's something I'm trying to teach more and more right now is just kind of like open yourself up to more. Number three, create a meal system that works for you and your family. Whether it's meal planning a week in advance, creating a binder, organizing your fridge a certain way, just make sure there is a system or also will get too disorganized and feel overwhelming. Pick a day to select dinners for the whole week and go to the market with the list of everything you need for that one week. Then you have it all and you aren't running to the market at 5pm the hour before you make dinner. It's hard at first and then it changes your life. Number four small steps do only what you can commit to. You don't need to commit to seven days of cooking three meals a day right off the bat. You can start with just one day or just one meal. You're not in a race with anyone. You can start with what feels right to you. Everyone's first step is to just take the first step. That first step can be really tiny. Maybe it's just making breakfast one morning

1:25:00

Maybe it's making your own coffee for the first time, whatever it is start with what you can commit to. Number five, even if you're nervous, do it anyway. I was nervous to start this podcast, it kept me up at night and never knew that I would be able to do this. My own nerves almost talk me out of doing something that's turning out to be so hard, but such a meaningful experience, life outside the comfort zone, Pamela step through fear. Also, she says, you know, when I taught my first cooking class, I put myself out there when I was trying to get people to come. What if I fail? What if nobody comes? What if they don't like me? What if it's not good? My first public talk 800 people, I was super nervous. What if they don't like me? What if I stink my first time on national TV. I mean, this is life, right? So you know, if you don't step into that discomfort, you don't grow. And if it doesn't work out, it's not the end of the world. Who cares? If you fail, it just means that you have to either try it in a different way, or move in another direction. But I feel like there's so much to be learned from failure. And also, I'm setting myself up for teaching my kids that we're not necessarily correct the first time at something and we need to keep going. They're watching us like my kids are watching this whole thing right now with my podcast. Number six, say yes sooner. Pamela said that if you told her she would have had this incredible business and cooking platform 10 years from when she started, she wouldn't have believed you. It just starts by saying yes. And seeing where that yes takes you. Pamela says she would have said yes to some opportunities sooner if she wasn't so perfectly unprepared. And she would have just done it anyway. She said, Sarah, if I had seen the one class turn into a week, and then the two books and then the TV appearances and the writing for a magazine on the side, I realized I wouldn't have done it. It seems scary. Just do the now and don't think about the future. So I went in with no plan. I'm like, Alright, I'll just do this one class one month, and we'll see what happens. And then I'll buy me some time until I figure out what I really want to do with my life. And then I did the class and I was like, wow, this is what I was meant to do. Number seven, teach what you know. Pamela was convinced she didn't know enough when her friend asked her to teach a cooking class, but she didn't know enough. Pamela says figure out what you know enough about raising girls photography, tennis, scrapbooking, and teach that to somebody. The gold is dripping off these nuggets, rabbit, use it. The resources and products mentioned in this episode are in the show notes. Go to the flexible neurotic calm. share this episode with a friend and subscribe to the flexible neurotic for more golden nuggets.

1:28:08

Good peeps. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed finding our sweet spot today, and digging through layers of shit with your golden shit shovel, Subscribe, Subscribe, subscribe. DM me on Instagram at the flexible neurotic. Tell me which golden nuggets resonated with you. The ones that you're gonna start using today to start getting your shit together to find our sweet spots. screenshot it, send it to a friend. This is Dr. Sarah Milken, the flexible neurotic, inspiring you to gather, curate, incorporate, maybe even meditate